Jaylen Brown: More than enough in Year 8.

Deathofthebambino

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You’re just so incredibly irrational on this topic. I respect you greatly as a poster, but the way you try to dodge logic over the last however many posts is very grating. I’m bored, I’m sure everyone else is bored, I hope Jaylen wins mvp and the Cs get the championship.
Oh, I can be irrational if you'd like. I promise I will begin treating every player with the same microscopic analysis of every mistake they make in game threads and in the post game analysis that Jaylen gets around here. Even after a win on the road against a playoff team. I'm happy to call it like I see it too.

We can certainly agree on the last part though.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Wait a minute, timeout. A nice, needed moment of levity, IMO.

PJ Tucker didn’t even play for Miami last year lol.
This is true. I was confusing series, when Tatum was guarding Tucker in the Sixers series (which was driving me insane, mind you, because Jayson Tatum is wasted guarding PJ Tucker) and Brown was running around with Harden.
 

Auger34

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Game 4, Tatum defended Butler for 32 possessions, Jaylen defended him for 10

Game 5, Tatum defended Butler for 17 possessions, Jaylen defended him for 4.

Game 6, Tatum defended Butler for 26 possessions, Jaylen defended him for 8.

You mention both of their shooting in game 6, but only Jaylen’s rebounds. Tatum had 31/12/5 himself, with 3 turnovers not 4.

I think all the comparisons being made with Tatum and Jaylen in this thread is part of the problem. Don’t need to talk down one player to prop another one up, though we’re all guilty of it at times lol.
You’re one of my favorite posters on the board. I agree with what you’re saying. I point them out and compare them, not to drag one down but to point out the hypocrisy.

Tatum is a GREAT player. Top 7 at the very least. I think he’s become essentially bulletproof on the main board. I can’t remember a post where he was questioned for anything. In the game threads, the only thing that he can be criticized for is his end of the quarter shots. Everything else is summarily dismissed.

Jaylen Brown is a very good player. Top 30. He has multiple posters on the main board questioning if he’s the 5th best player on the team. Multiple posters questioning if his trade value will maintain after one game and if we can get multiple good role players then that would be great. On the game threads, it was widely talked about how Brad has the date he can be traded circled on his calendar.

I mean, you’re a smart person, surely you can see that there’s a pretty massive difference in the conversation around them?
 

RorschachsMask

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You’re one of my favorite posters on the board. I agree with what you’re saying. I point them out and compare them, not to drag one down but to point out the hypocrisy.

Tatum is a GREAT player. Top 7 at the very least. I think he’s become essentially bulletproof on the main board. In the game threads, the only thing that he can be criticized for is his end of the quarter shots. Everything else is summarily dismissed.

Jaylen Brown is a very good player. Top 30. He has multiple posters on the main board questioning if he’s the 5th best player on the team. Multiple posters questioning if his trade value will maintain after one game and if we can get multiple good role players then that would be great. On the game threads, it was widely talked about how Brad has the date he can be traded circled on his calendar.

I mean, you’re a smart person, surely you can see that there’s a pretty massive difference in the conversation around them?
Honestly, and this is a boring answer. I tend to stay out of GT’s during games, because they are so over the top reactionary, and it drives me crazy lol.

But I don’t doubt what you’re saying at all, Jaylen is a massive lightning rod for Celtics fans everywhere. Here, Twitter. Reddit, realgm, everywhere. The post here earlier saying he wonders if they’d be better off with Grant being a good example of going ridiculously too far the other way. Come the fuck on lol.

All I care about is the team putting him in best position to succeed, because we know what type of scorer/attacker he is.

Edit: you’re an awesome poster, dotb is an awesome poster, pretty much everyone here is. If a forum isn’t getting heated at times, we’re not foruming right.
 
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Deathofthebambino

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Honestly, and this is a boring answer. I tend to stay out of GT’s during games, because they are so over the top reactionary, and it drives me crazy lol.

But I don’t doubt what you’re saying at all, Jaylen is a massive lightning rod for Celtics fans everywhere. Here, Twitter. Reddit, realgm, everywhere. The post here earlier saying he wonders if they’d be better off with Grant being a good example of going ridiculously too far the other way. Come the fuck on lol.

All I care about is the team putting him in best position to succeed, because we know what type of scorer/attacker he is.
I don't think that's a boring answer at all. I fully admit a lot of my posts on the main board come off as over the top, following what happened the night before in a game thread, and that's something I need to probably deal with better. It's just so non-stop that it's hard to get passed it sometimes, so when it does bleed over to the main board, especially following a win like last night, on the road against a good team in which Jaylen didn't play poorly outside a 2 minute period, it bothers me and I should just let it go. If the guy played last night like he played game 7 last year, I wouldn't have said a word and piled on, but man, he didn't play bad last night. The whole team played really good defensively, the Knicks were just stroking it from deep and on offense he did what he needed to do, nothing more, nothing less (outside of that 2 minute stretch).
 

RorschachsMask

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I don't think that's a boring answer at all. I fully admit a lot of my posts on the main board come off as over the top, following what happened the night before in a game thread, and that's something I need to probably deal with better. It's just so non-stop that it's hard to get passed it sometimes, so when it does bleed over to the main board, especially following a win like last night, on the road against a good team in which Jaylen didn't play poorly outside a 2 minute period, it bothers me and I should just let it go. If the guy played last night like he played game 7 last year, I wouldn't have said a word and piled on, but man, he didn't play bad last night. The whole team played really good defensively, the Knicks were just stroking it from deep and on offense he did what he needed to do, nothing more, nothing less (outside of that 2 minute stretch).
I am one of the most ridiculously stubborn people you will ever have the pleasure of interacting with. Because of that, I have to stay away from arguing about sports for the most part. Plus weed is exceptional at keeping me calm now. I love a healthy back and forth, but once it gets fiesty, I gotta bail lol.

Pretty sure this is a gif of me during some of my sports arguments online, right down to the sweat.

 

slamminsammya

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It's not a comparison. Everyone in this thread, and everyone on Earth knows that Tatum is a much better player in every respect, than Jaylen Brown.

The point I've been making and that most other folks who actually support JB make is that every single mistake Jaylen makes is cause for handwringing that nobody else, including Tatum, gets. For every 100 possessions last season, and on comparable usage, Brown made .2 turnovers more than Tatum. But every one seems to have instant recall about every turnover he makes.

If Jaylen Brown went 0/8 from deep in game 6 and they lost that game, he'd have caught so much shit, the sky would have turned brown. Tatum scored 15 of his points from the free throw line. Brown went 8/10 from the line and made five huge free throws down the stretch, but when he missed one, folks were ready to run him out of town from the line. He was everywhere in game 6, grabbing boards, etc.

It just gets exhausting when every game thread, and every post game recap focuses solely on Brown's negatives, and almost completely ignores when other guys are making mistakes. I've never understood it.
I think one issue is not all turnovers are created equal. playmaking in general is a distribution of risk and reward. high level playmaking will generate turnovers as a side effect of taking risks to create great shots for teammates. Steve Nash making turnovers while nashing is not the same as another guy making turnovers by, say, committing a ton of illegal screens.

so comparing Tatum's and jaylens raw turnover numbers is not very illuminating to me. I think jaylen gets a disproportionate amount of shit because so many of those turnovers are just terrible risk/reward plays. these aren't jaylen trying to needle in a high leverage pass that has a chance to lead to a layup - they are often some of the dumbest turnovers you'll ever see.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I think one issue is not all turnovers are created equal. playmaking in general is a distribution of risk and reward. high level playmaking will generate turnovers as a side effect of taking risks to create great shots for teammates. Steve Nash making turnovers while nashing is not the same as another guy making turnovers by, say, committing a ton of illegal screens.

so comparing Tatum's and jaylens raw turnover numbers is not very illuminating to me. I think jaylen gets a disproportionate amount of shit because so many of those turnovers are just terrible risk/reward plays. these aren't jaylen trying to needle in a high leverage pass that has a chance to lead to a layup - they are often some of the dumbest turnovers you'll ever see.
I don't necessarily disagree. Jaylen had two turnovers last night, one was exactly what you describe, he was trying to thread a needle to Holiday underneath and it didn't happen. The other was the lazy inbounds.

Tatum threw two passes early in the game to the other team, not difficult passes to make. Then he literally dribbled left and lost control on his own in a massive moment late in the game for another. I don't remember the fourth.

Two of Horfords were illegal screens. Not sure of the third.

But I would imagine if we broke all of these turnovers into a pie, 95% of the discussion revolved around Brown's 2, 2% for Tatum and 3% was discussing whether or not Al set an illegal screen or not.

And I'm not exaggerating a bit.

Jaylen had the most assists on the team on only 18.4% usage. He was playmaking when the opportunities were there. It's hard to do a lot without the ball in your hands and I'm glad he didn't when KP and Tatum were literal infernos for most of the game. It just wasn't a bad game from Jaylen, but once again, he's the focus of anything negative that happened all night and into today.
 

Auger34

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I think one issue is not all turnovers are created equal. playmaking in general is a distribution of risk and reward. high level playmaking will generate turnovers as a side effect of taking risks to create great shots for teammates. Steve Nash making turnovers while nashing is not the same as another guy making turnovers by, say, committing a ton of illegal screens.

so comparing Tatum's and jaylens raw turnover numbers is not very illuminating to me. I think jaylen gets a disproportionate amount of shit because so many of those turnovers are just terrible risk/reward plays. these aren't jaylen trying to needle in a high leverage pass that has a chance to lead to a layup - they are often some of the dumbest turnovers you'll ever see.
I agree with you but here’s how I’d describe it…

Jaylen makes a boneheaded turnover and it’s treated like the worst thing ever. Tatum makes a bad turnover and it’s treated like he’s REALLY close to being Steve Nash whipping the ball around effortlessly playmaking and putting every pass in the shooting pocket (just because you brought him up)

Ones definitely worse than the other but not nearly as much as the reaction
 

luckiestman

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I agree with you but here’s how I’d describe it…

Jaylen makes a boneheaded turnover and it’s treated like the worst thing ever. Tatum makes a bad turnover and it’s treated like he’s REALLY close to being Steve Nash whipping the ball around effortlessly playmaking and putting every pass in the shooting pocket (just because you brought him up)

Ones definitely worse than the other but not nearly as much as the reaction
no one ever goes after Tatum in game threads, that’s true

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Auger34

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no one ever goes after Tatum in game threads, that’s true

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I think you responded to the wrong post, the one that you responded to has nothing to do with Tatum not being criticized.

Regardless, impressive sleuthing. I can be reactionary in game threads for sure. The one that you chose probably isn’t the best one for you to make your point, considering that he was 1-14 in an elimination game. I think we could make some unholy combination of Jesus, Bill Russell, LeBron James and Michael Jordan and he would still be shit on if he went 1-14 in an elimination game.
Can you find the ones at the end where I said I was wrong? Multiple times actually. In fact, i had multiple posts to JakeRae in that thread talking about how he deserved credit for staying positive throughout the game. I’m sure you can because you found those.

So I admitted I was wrong for those. What do you say about the post you made last night comparing Jrue.Holiday to Nikola Jokic, the greatest passing big man ever, because he makes his teammates better on offense? I think Lauren Holiday read that and did a double take.
Or the one where you said the Tatum and Brown discussion was like Brady and Mac?
Should be easier to find considering it was last night and Game 1 of the season
 

luckiestman

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So I admitted I was wrong for those. What do you say about the post you made last night comparing Jrue.Holiday to Nikola Jokic, the greatest passing big man ever, because he makes his teammates better on offense? I think Lauren Holiday read that and did a double take.

Or the one where you said the Tatum and Brown discussion was like Brady and Mac?
Should be easier to find considering it was last night and Game 1 of the season
Those posts sound very funny. And it was the combination of Jrue Holiday and Tatum opening space for Zinger. Also, Mac Jones has no talent around him. That excuse doesn’t work for your Cal Teddy Bear.
 

Auger34

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Those posts sound very funny. And it was the combination of Jrue Holiday and Tatum opening space for Zinger. Also, Mac Jones has no talent around him. That excuse doesn’t work for your Cal Teddy Bear.
Cal teddy bear is pretty good.

And Jrue Holiday isn’t opening up space for shit. He’s the #4 or #5 option on offense.

You claim to like the “Cal Teddy bear”. Surely you recognize that he opens up way more space than Jrue? Or do we have to wait for the new player smell to wear off for you to recognize that?
 

luckiestman

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Cal teddy bear is pretty good.

And Jrue Holiday isn’t opening up space for shit. He’s the #4 or #5 option on offense.

You claim to like the “Cal Teddy bear”. Surely you recognize that he opens up way more space than Jrue? Or do we have to wait for the new player smell to wear off for you to recognize that?
The post you are perseverating on was about Zinger playing with complementary players. I was a TimeLord/Smart Stan so these new guys have a way to go for me.

The Mac/Tommy thing was a shot at Death, ya know, for fun.

Im not trying to have a sports blog or get props for my deep analysis. I like talking shit about sports especially the guys I root for and having a laugh. I floated trading Jaylen for Harden too so maybe mention that beauty with the other posts. That’s 3 bangers you won’t be getting on The Lowe Post.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I do think Brown not finding a role in the offense is a concern (if it continues, I mean; one game where the offense on the whole looked rough is not a basis to judge Brown). Here are some ways to do that:

1. They need to run more, which will lead to transition opportunities .
2. They need to have some halfcourt plays for him, and they need to run them often enough for him to stay engaged.
3. They should be generating catch and shoot looks for him based on Tatum and KP breaking defenses down.
4. Brown needs to add running off picks into catch and shoot opportunities to his game. The Celtics as a whole don't do a lot of that.
5. Brown's top of the key midrange game is good, they need to work that in.

I will say that where Tatum and KP are going to find their ways to score in the offense more easily, they probably need to work at it with JB.
 
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ManicCompression

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Tatum is a GREAT player. Top 7 at the very least. I think he’s become essentially bulletproof on the main board. I can’t remember a post where he was questioned for anything. In the game threads, the only thing that he can be criticized for is his end of the quarter shots. Everything else is summarily dismissed.

Jaylen Brown is a very good player. Top 30. He has multiple posters on the main board questioning if he’s the 5th best player on the team. Multiple posters questioning if his trade value will maintain after one game and if we can get multiple good role players then that would be great. On the game threads, it was widely talked about how Brad has the date he can be traded circled on his calendar.
Okay, your answer is right here. Tatum shows up more consistently, and often in bigger ways, so he has more leeway than Brown. STILL he gets criticized quite a bit for turnovers, cold streaks, bitching to the refs, and leadership. See my posts below from someone who's a supposed Tatum stan.

Brown, conversely, will be paid almost the same amount as Tatum going forward despite being not nearly as good, as you yourself note above. Could that potentially be a source of frustration when his highs aren't as high and his lows are as low, if not lower?

Below are posts by me re: Tatum - I don't post all that much. I rarely criticize Brown outside of the context of him and Tatum, I just defend the idea that Brown should be able to be criticized without DOTB throwing a tantrum about how how it's so unfair for fans to be annoyed with his meme-worthy turnovers:

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Deathofthebambino

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Okay, your answer is right here. Tatum shows up more consistently, and often in bigger ways, so he has more leeway than Brown. STILL he gets criticized quite a bit for turnovers, cold streaks, bitching to the refs, and leadership. See my posts below from someone who's a supposed Tatum stan.

Brown, conversely, will be paid almost the same amount as Tatum going forward despite being not nearly as good, as you yourself note above. Could that potentially be a source of frustration when his highs aren't as high and his lows are as low, if not lower?

Below are posts by me re: Tatum - I don't post all that much. I rarely criticize Brown outside of the context of him and Tatum, I just defend the idea that Brown should be able to be criticized without DOTB throwing a tantrum about how how it's so unfair for fans to be annoyed with his meme-worthy turnovers:

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LOL, you found 6 posts that you criticized Tatum on in about 6 months, and in four of them, you managed to squeeze in shots at Brown too.

What's the point you're trying to make?
 

ManicCompression

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LOL, you found 6 posts that you criticized Tatum on in about 6 months, and in four of them, you managed to squeeze in shots at Brown too.

What's the point you're trying to make?
Like I said, I don't post that much, so you won't find me having a lot of posts about any topic. And of course I'm taking shots at Brown too - they're the two best players on the team! They've had similar challenges in the last two very frustrating playoffs! What planet are you living on?
 

tims4wins

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If Tatum had the exact same game that Jaylen had last night, he wouldn’t be catching any shit at all. The narrative would be it’s one game and he was great last year.

People love to act like Tatum gets a fair share of criticism on here….he doesn’t. Tatum is the best player on the team so I get it but it’s annoying to see it compared to Jaylen as if they are even in the same galaxy of each other.

In the game thread, you pointed out how this is similar to Mac vs Brady. That perfectly encapsulates what I am saying that that’s even hinted at in any way in this. Jaylen Brown is an elite player that has accomplished things in his sport as a pro that Mac could only dream of. Tom Brady is the best player ever….Tatum isn’t the best player in the Eastern Conference.

On the whole, the board overrates Tatum and underrates Brown. Some people a massive amount.

(Tatum is the best player on the team and he’s top 3 in a franchise draft. I just recognize he’s not perfect)
Tatum caught plenty of shit last year IMO. I get very frustrated with him too.

Just wanted to point out these quotes from yours truly:

Tatum is playing so bad
If the Celts had Jimmy instead of Tatum they’d already have a ring and would be on the way to a 2nd
I have been a Tatum fanboy since day 1.

It’s hard to still be on the wagon. He simply is not The Man.
Correct. Yes. I loved him coming out. I thought he would be the best pro that K has ever produced. I still think he is. But I’m not sure he has enough alpha.
 

BigSoxFan

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Tatum caught plenty of shit last year IMO. I get very frustrated with him too.

Just wanted to point out these quotes from yours truly:
Yeah, Tatum caught a whole ball of shit during that Philly series and the year prior in the finals when he played poorly (although potentially injury-related). Shoot, I’m old enough to remember when KG caught shit in 2007 playoffs when he was being oddly passive offensively. I don’t think this board treats anyone as untouchable - maybe if it existed in 1986 we would have with Larry Joe Bird.
 

lexrageorge

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With the Knicks unable to do anything to slow down Porzingis, and with Tatum doing Tatum things, how much did the Celtics need to rely on Jaylen Brown? He had a bad night shooting, but that didn't kill the team. Last year they may have needed him to continue putting up shots; probably would have ended up breaking 20 points in the process, but not particularly efficient.

Between strategic rest days and varying matchups, I'm sure Brown will have ample opportunity to have better games.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Like I said, I don't post that much, so you won't find me having a lot of posts about any topic. And of course I'm taking shots at Brown too - they're the two best players on the team! They've had similar challenges in the last two very frustrating playoffs! What planet are you living on?
Maybe if you don't post that much (or read that much) you're missing what we're saying then.

Just go read the game thread from the other night. You've got like a dozen posts shitting on Jaylen like 3 possessions into the game, before he ever made a turnover or did anything wrong. He drops a dime to Porzingis for a dunk, and there's a grand total of one post praising him. Then he has a bad stretch, and the game thread turns into a shooting gallery of people losing it.

The point is that if folks are going to talk about Jaylen Brown as if he's one of the worst basketball players on Earth, and not a top 30 player (IMO, slightly better than that), there should be fucking push back. Like I said yesterday, Jaylen Brown was a huge part of the reason this team made the ECF last year. He was on fucking fire through the first 2 series (IMO, playing only 2 bad games in those 13 games), and then he had a tough series with Miami although if his shot falls even a little bit in games 1 and 2, the C's probably win that series easily (he played great in games 5 and 6), but he wasn't the only guy that had a tough series either. But the narrative is he sucked in the playoffs, and frankly, I hate bullshit narratives.

Of course, there's going to be posts here and there shitting on Tatum when he makes a bad play. That's fine, but the balance is so, so far off when it comes to the shit Brown gets for doing the same thing that it's just hard to reconcile. Tatum literally averaged more turnovers than Brown in the Miami series (even with Brown having 6 in game 1 and 8 in game 7). They both shot like absolute shit (Brown was .418/.163 and Tatum was .469/.234), but I would guess the threads around here shitting on players was a 10:1 split on Brown vs. Tatum, maybe more.

And the reality is as bad as they played, and they couldn't really shoot any worse, they still managed to take Miami to a Game 7. I think that leads to a lot of frustration, but IMO, it should also lead to a lot of optimism too because it literally took Miami getting the absolute worst from the C's two best players to barely get by them in the end, while on the flipside, Miami needed out of body experiences from role players to win. It shouldn't lead to wanting to run Jaylen out of town on a rail.
 

ManicCompression

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Just go read the game thread from the other night. You've got like a dozen posts shitting on Jaylen like 3 possessions into the game, before he ever made a turnover or did anything wrong. He drops a dime to Porzingis for a dunk, and there's a grand total of one post praising him. Then he has a bad stretch, and the game thread turns into a shooting gallery of people losing it.
I think the problem is that you're taking game threads personally. I don't understand why you're doing that. It's like expecting well-thought out, unemotional opinions at a sports bar.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I think the problem is that you're taking game threads personally. I don't understand why you're doing that. It's like expecting well-thought out, unemotional opinions at a sports bar.
Probably true, but let's not act like there weren't two different threads on the main board, within hours of the game ending almost devoted to the same discussion about Jaylen that was in the game thread (and the game thread itself was still active regarding Jaylen at that point too). I mean, if folks want to bash Jaylen in the game threads and the post game threads, it doesn't leave a ton to respond to about anything else. I was in the game thread all night, although didn't make a ton of posts and I'm pretty sure my first one regarding Jaylen wasn't until pretty late in the game (and all of my others happened post-game in the game thread). I spent most of the time praising Tatum and a few other plays, and shitting all over the refs, because they were ass and I hate this new flopping rule.
 

chilidawg

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"Relax everyone, Jaylen Brown will be just fine" seems tailor made for this thread.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2023/10/26/23933327/relax-everyone-jaylen-brown-will-be-just-fine-boston-celtics-new-york-knicks-jayson-tatum

With a few exceptions, Brown didn’t force things offensively, attempting nearly half as many field goals (11) as he averaged last season (20.6). For those who were worried about his ability to defer to Porzingis and others on the roster, that willingness to sacrifice his own scoring should be a welcome sign.

Defensively, Brown played a key role in limiting both of the Knicks stars. Julius Randle finished the game with just 14 points on 5-22 shooting, while Jalen Brunson finished with 15 on 6-21 shooting. Brown had a 105.1 defensive rating, good for fourth-best on the team, and guarded Brunson and Barrett for a combined 38 possessions. Collectively, the pair scored just 6 points with Brown as their primary defender.


 

DGreenwood

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If the offensive trends from game 1 continue, teams will need to adjust their defensive strategy to make things more difficult on KP. This should open things up for Brown. The Celtics have so many weapons that it will be tough for teams to stop everyone.
 

TripleOT

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Now that Brown has gotten paid, he could have come out a couple of different ways in the opener. He could have forced things to try to show that he’s the man, or he could have taken a complimentary role, and do the things that needed to be done to win the game. Putting aside the debate as to whether you want a guy making north of $50 million a year as a complementary player, I like the way he approached the opener.

There is a ton of offensive talent at the top of this rotation. We all know JB can score 20+ easily. I’m psyched to see him lead the team in assists. Both the Jays continue to show each season that they are committed to getting better. I expect Brown to be a more well rounded, better player this season.
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

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Yeah, Tatum caught a whole ball of shit during that Philly series and the year prior in the finals when he played poorly (although potentially injury-related). Shoot, I’m old enough to remember when KG caught shit in 2007 playoffs when he was being oddly passive offensively. I don’t think this board treats anyone as untouchable - maybe if it existed in 1986 we would have with Larry Joe Bird.
Oh SoSH ‘86 would have had plenty to say about Larry Legend.

Took many, many, possessions off on defense.

Froze out players he didn’t like/respect.

Took too many midrange shots that should have been threes.

Didn’t fight through picks in D, never, ever, ever set a pick in offense.

Didn’t take conditioning seriously enough.

Ruined Rick Robey’s career one Schlitz at a time.

Flat out gave up an entire playoff series because Bill Fitch hurt his feelings.

Too cheap to hire someone to resurface his driveway.
 

luckiestman

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Oh SoSH ‘86 would have had plenty to say about Larry Legend.

Took many, many, possessions off on defense.

Froze out players he didn’t like/respect.

Took too many midrange shots that should have been threes.

Didn’t fight through picks in D, never, ever, ever set a pick in offense.

Didn’t take conditioning seriously enough.

Ruined Rick Robey’s career one Schlitz at a time.

Flat out gave up an entire playoff series because Bill Fitch hurt his feelings.

Too cheap to hire someone to resurface his driveway.
This is a great idea for an off-season thread.
 

chilidawg

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Auger34

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Apr 23, 2010
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Joe M. on Jaylen:

“The best thing I’ve seen from him is his consistency defensively,” said coach Joe Mazzulla on Brown’s efforts in the win against Miami. “Regardless of how he’s doing on the floor, he’s competing with toughness. ... Tonight, he showed who he is.”


https://www.celticsblog.com/2023/10/30/23936253/joe-mazzulla-on-jaylen-brown-boston-celtics-vs-miami-heat-tonight-he-showed-who-he-is
Jaylen has one big fault on defense (off-ball, where he can get caught ball watching). However, I do think it gets lost that he is very good on-ball. He also looks to have bulked up and did a good job defending Bam in the perimeter the other night
 

Euclis20

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Jaylen has one big fault on defense (off-ball, where he can get caught ball watching). However, I do think it gets lost that he is very good on-ball. He also looks to have bulked up and did a good job defending Bam in the perimeter the other night
For a guy with his size and athleticism, he also has a tendency to get picked off a bit too easily by screens (both on and off ball). The off ball issues probably never go away (and are mostly covered up by the rest of the team).

Isolated on ball defense, especially against bigger forwards, has always been his strength. He looked very comfortable defending Kevin Love in the 2017 and 2018 ECFs when he was just 20-21 and Love was still an all-star.
 

jmcc5400

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For a guy with his size and athleticism, he also has a tendency to get picked off a bit too easily by screens (both on and off ball). The off ball issues probably never go away (and are mostly covered up by the rest of the team).

Isolated on ball defense, especially against bigger forwards, has always been his strength. He looked very comfortable defending Kevin Love in the 2017 and 2018 ECFs when he was just 20-21 and Love was still an all-star.
He's also eaten Pascal Siakam alive in one-on-one match-ups. My fondest wish for Jaylen, now that he has the bag, is for him to prioritize the defense and let the offense come in the flow of the game - and it will come.
 

Auger34

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For a guy with his size and athleticism, he also has a tendency to get picked off a bit too easily by screens (both on and off ball). The off ball issues probably never go away (and are mostly covered up by the rest of the team).

Isolated on ball defense, especially against bigger forwards, has always been his strength. He looked very comfortable defending Kevin Love in the 2017 and 2018 ECFs when he was just 20-21 and Love was still an all-star.
The screen thing is very true, especially when you see him actually fight through them when it’s clearly a point of emphasis (like he did against Harden).
 

RorschachsMask

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Something I’ve been curious about is what has happened to his C&S numbers from three, the last few years. Here are his numbers since 20-21

43.1
36.7
33.4
33.3

These shots aren’t about the high level of difficulty like pull-ups either, they should be a staple of his offense, and the numbers have just tanked over the years. Hopefully this season he gets back on track, but the ball just doesn’t look good out of his hands on a lot of them.
 

Jimbodandy

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Something I’ve been curious about is what has happened to his C&S numbers from three, the last few years. Here are his numbers since 20-21

43.1
36.7
33.4
33.3

These shots aren’t about the high level of difficulty like pull-ups either, they should be a staple of his offense, and the numbers have just tanked over the years. Hopefully this season he gets back on track, but the ball just doesn’t look good out of his hands on a lot of them.
It's super weird, because his eFG and TS are basically constant over that time period.
 

RorschachsMask

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Lynn
It's super weird, because his eFG and TS are basically constant over that time period.
His TS has been remarkably consistent lol, despite the fluctuations that the league tends to have. Since becoming a focal point of an offense

58.3
58.6
57.4
58.1
54.5 (five games in)

I’m not so much concerned about the three ball, but it’s a massive sample now. Just to the eye, his C&S threes seem to have less arc than his pull-ups do. It’s really holding his efficiency back to the point where he’s been league average for a few years now. Hopefully it bounces back this year, or he can get to the line some more.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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His TS has been remarkably consistent lol, despite the fluctuations that the league tends to have. Since becoming a focal point of an offense

58.3
58.6
57.4
58.1
54.5 (five games in)

I’m not so much concerned about the three ball, but it’s a massive sample now. Just to the eye, his C&S threes seem to have less arc than his pull-ups do. It’s really holding his efficiency back to the point where he’s been league average for a few years now. Hopefully it bounces back this year, or he can get to the line some more.
I agree with the last, I'm hoping he continues to be more aggressive taking the ball to the hoop. This year, wicked small sample obviously, he's only averaging 2.6 C&S 3's per game. The last 4 years have been 4.3/4.9/4.8/4.8.
 

Jimbodandy

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I think that it could be as simple as the fact that he doesn't spend much time in the corner anymore. Grant, Brogdon, Hauser, et al. seem to stake out that part the last few years, and JB roams between the breaks. Catch and shoot there will be weaker.
 

RorschachsMask

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I think that it could be as simple as the fact that he doesn't spend much time in the corner anymore. Grant, Brogdon, Hauser, et al. seem to stake out that part the last few years, and JB roams between the breaks. Catch and shoot there will be weaker.
He’s numbers from the corners have had the same thing, it’s so weird lol.

20-21: 40.8% (71 attempts)
21-22: 34.1% (91 attempts)
22-23: 27.7% (65 attempts)
23-24: 3-5 so far, can’t take much either way out of this season yet.

His three ball has just fallen off a cliff, overall. He spent this summer working with lethal shooter, who worked with Grant in the past. From what I’ve read, that shooting coach has had mixed results with players. Here’s to hoping he helps Jaylen like he did Grant.
 

Euclis20

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JB certainly catches his fair share of bodies. He had a massive one on Porzingis in his first or second year, he made Lebron look extremely old in 2020, he nearly killed Mitchell last year, and he's got a whole highlight reel out there of just dunks on Giannis.
 

JakeRae

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I think that it could be as simple as the fact that he doesn't spend much time in the corner anymore. Grant, Brogdon, Hauser, et al. seem to stake out that part the last few years, and JB roams between the breaks. Catch and shoot there will be weaker.
I haven’t checked, but my guess is he’s taking a lot more contested catch and shoots and he used to get wide open catch and shoot looks.
 

benhogan

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Not picking on any poster specifically but wouldn’t it make sense to have a “What would you trade Jaylen Brown for next July“ thread that stood on its own and allowed the people interested in reading about the 23-24 Celtics, of which Jaylen Brown is a part of, to engage in this thread?
This is fair. Maybe a MOD could move all of the Jaylen Summer24 Fake Trades into this thread.
Tatum is the Alpha WING and the overlap is obvious & can get clunky. JB is the ultimate hedge against Tatum/KP getting injured but still think he's getting moved in the next two years before Tatum's Super Max kicks in.

All trades would be the dreaded $1 for two Quarters, due to the new CBA & Celtic need/fit. There should be demand for JB, regardless of his deflated stats this season. He was a 26ppg scorer, as a secondary option. NBA teams will be cognizant of Boston adding KP/Jrue. Jaylen could be a swing for many of these teams. Basically, the market for him will be competitive regardless of his contract.

Horford will eventually be cooked (he's looked a tad slower this season). Adding a 4/5, bigger WING, will be a Brad priority. And if he adds future picks it could extend their Tatum window when they will need to use them in future deals.

Nothing concrete here, just idle Board speculation. Draft picks, filler, accoutrements, etc would need to be added
Players/Teams that might want to shake things up to keep a casual eye on this season.

Bridges/NETS
Bane or JJJ/MEM
Wagner/ORL
OG or Pascal/TOR (in a S&T)
Grant/PDX
Bam/MIA
Markkanen/UTAH
Okongwu-Murray/ATL
Mobley/CLV
Duren-Thompson/DET
Jaylen Williams/OKC
 

Everetts Dinosaurs

New Member
Jan 22, 2006
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Would it be crazy to target a big to let KP be a roamer/safety on defense? Would help with playoff matchups against dominant bigs, which feels increasingly important in a way it wasn’t a few years ago. Any deep playoff run will go through some combo of Embiid, Giannis, and Bam. KP feels like a liability in all of those matchups.

You’d need someone who is still a threat from deep to keep spacing. Not sure I see anyone in the list above who makes sense.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
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Apr 23, 2010
11,971
This is fair. Maybe a MOD could move all of the Jaylen Summer24 Fake Trades into this thread.
Tatum is the Alpha WING and the overlap is obvious & can get clunky. JB is the ultimate hedge against Tatum/KP getting injured but still think he's getting moved in the next two years before Tatum's Super Max kicks in.

All trades would be the dreaded $1 for two Quarters, due to the new CBA & Celtic need/fit. There should be demand for JB, regardless of his deflated stats this season. He was a 26ppg scorer, as a secondary option. NBA teams will be cognizant of Boston adding KP/Jrue. Jaylen could be a swing for many of these teams. Basically, the market for him will be competitive regardless of his contract.

Horford will eventually be cooked (he's looked a tad slower this season). Adding a 4/5, bigger WING, will be a Brad priority. And if he adds future picks it could extend their Tatum window when they will need to use them in future deals.

Nothing concrete here, just idle Board speculation. Draft picks, filler, accoutrements, etc would need to be added
Players/Teams that might want to shake things up to keep a casual eye on this season.

Bridges/NETS
Bane or JJJ/MEM
Wagner/ORL
OG or Pascal/TOR (in a S&T)
Grant/PDX
Bam/MIA
Markkanen/UTAH
Okongwu-Murray/ATL
Mobley/CLV
Duren-Thompson/DET
Jaylen Williams/OKC
I’d cross out Grant. Everything he’s done in his career has shown that he’s far more interested in his own stats than sacrificing to be on a winning team.

Cross out Dejounte too. He seems like a massive clown and I don’t think his personality would be a fit or matches the types of players that Brad has been acquiring.

Markkanen seems to want/need the ball a bit too much for his role here

I think Bam is incredibly unlikely (like 1%). JJJ is a really, really good fit but I don’t think Memphis trades him. They have more guard/wing types than bigs.

Mobley is REALLY interesting. Looking at it at the surface it seems unlikely but when you dig a bit deeper some things do start to add up….
You get rid of the clunky double big fit with Jarrett Allen. You know Cleveland wants to keep Mitchell and Brown/Mitchell are really close…
I think that’s a really good idea.

Bridges, Franz, Toronto duo, Mobley and good Williams from OKC seem like the most logical trades (in terms of what Boston needs and the opposing team wanting to acquire Jaylen)