Jaylen Brown: More than enough in Year 8.

[lexrageorge]

I'm not sure HRB is saying that Jaylen Brown is going to adopt the Golden Corral diet and collect his paycheck while periodically making an appearance on the basketball court. He seems like the type that will continue to stay obsessively motivated to be the best player he can be.

But there are a lot of hurdles to JB making 2nd team All-NBA again, especially with the position-less voting and 65 game requirement. The latter is a big one, IMO, as the team is going to do everything it can to be sure Brown is healthy for the playoffs, and that does tend to lead to more floating holidays as players age.

Even if we take the more positive views of Brown's game here, that Brown is a Top 20-25 player in the NBA (a take I agree with), it's still not close to a slam dunk he would be voted into the Top 10 in the future.

 

[Myt1]

And this fucking team needs to run, and run and run like their fucking hair is on fire.

That's what I think we're going to see so much more of this year with White running point instead of Smart. White gets the rock and he pushes almost constantly. This team in the open court can be almost unstoppable.

1000x this. They are so fucking long and athletic that 2-3 defensive stops and/or quick rebounds can really, really put the pressure on a team if they run. If it’s a transition 3-pointer or two or three of them, they’re hard to keep up with.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I'm not sure HRB is saying that Jaylen Brown is going to adopt the Golden Corral diet and collect his paycheck while periodically making an appearance on the basketball court. He seems like the type that will continue to stay obsessively motivated to be the best player he can be.

But there are a lot of hurdles to JB making 2nd team All-NBA again, especially with the position-less voting and 65 game requirement. The latter is a big one, IMO, as the team is going to do everything it can to be sure Brown is healthy for the playoffs, and that does tend to lead to more floating holidays as players age.

Even if we take the more positive views of Brown's game here, that Brown is a Top 20-25 player in the NBA (a take I agree with), it's still not close to a slam dunk he would be voted into the Top 10 in the future.

I don't think that you're going to get much of an argument from most people here. It was a perfect storm of Jaylen playing as well as he ever has, the team peaking, and a lot of guys who would normally be ahead of him either crapping on themselves or sitting out due to rest, old age, or injury. The implication that Jaylen's nice run was contract-driven is lazy imo. That he got a bit lucky is certainly fair.

 

[benhogan]

I don't think that you're going to get much of an argument from most people here. It was a perfect storm of Jaylen playing as well as he ever has, the team peaking, and a lot of guys who would normally be ahead of him either crapping on themselves or sitting out due to rest, old age, or injury. The implication that Jaylen's nice run was contract-driven is lazy imo. That he got a bit lucky is certainly fair.

I have zero worries about Jaylen's motivation or effort. My only concern with the contract is the pressure he may put on himself to live up to the "biggest contract ever" hype

 

[TripleOT]

JB getting some tabloid treatment.
Synopsis:
Allegedly dating a “grandmother“ age 43, Bernice Burgos, who has a daughter slightly older than JB
She is a model, influencer, and has a fashion line
She had been linked to various other celebs, including Drake
She formerly was a bartender at the same club where CardiB worked (apparently they don’t do their hiring over the phone)

https://nypost.com/2023/07/26/meet-jaylen-browns-rumored-girlfriend-who-is-a-grandmother/

 

[Jimbodandy]

I have zero worries about Jaylen's motivation or effort. My only concern with the contract is the pressure he may put on himself to live up to the "biggest contract ever" hype

He knows better than anyone that it's a percentage of the cap and how the raises and bird rights shit works. He's a VP in the union. I'd be surprised if low-information sports media content affects his mindset.

 

[benhogan]

He knows better than anyone that it's a percentage of the cap and how the raises and bird rights shit works. He's a VP in the union. I'd be surprised if low-information sports media content affects his mindset.

"low-information sports media content" that basically covers TNT, ESPN, Disney, & Boston sports radio/pods.
Throw in the other 29 NBA cities interested in watching the C's fail and Jaylen's only safe zone is the Cellar, JJ Redick & Jared Weiss.

He wouldn't be the first athlete to feel the pressure of a contract, which probably speaks more to him caring about playing well.

 

[RorschachsMask]

View: https://twitter.com/RealBobManning/status/1686158174569582592?s=20

 

[benhogan]

Jaylen's only safe zone is the Cellar, JJ Redick & Jared Weiss.

He wouldn't be the first athlete to feel the pressure of a contract, which probably speaks more to him caring about playing well.

Stand corrected...Jared Weiss isn't even a safe zone for Brown.

https://theathletic.com/4744433/2023/08/03/celtics-jaylen-brown-turnovers/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983

 

[DGreenwood]

It's a bit weird because I think Brown is above average at finishing with his left hand but below average at dribbling with his left. It's common knowledge that teams want to force him left, it almost makes me think he misunderstood the issue and has put his effort into getting better at finishing with his left.

That's obviously pure speculation but I can't think of another wing who is so good finishing left handed layups but turns the ball over so much dribbling left. There are tons of examples of players that have no issue going left but then they finish on the left side of the rim with their right hand.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

It's a bit weird because I think Brown is above average at finishing with his left hand but below average at dribbling with his left. It's common knowledge that teams want to force him left, it almost makes me think he misunderstood the issue and has put his effort into getting better at finishing with his left.

That's obviously pure speculation but I can't think of another wing who is so good finishing left handed layups but turns the ball over so much dribbling left. There are tons of examples of players that have no issue going left but then they finish on the left side of the rim with their right hand.

Then there's Brogdon, who I think goes right and finishes with his left more than anyone I've ever noticed in green.

 

[RorschachsMask]

IMO, Jaylen is a slightly above ball handler as a 3, slightly below average as a 2.

I think it’s way more about his recognition and feel for the game. If he has the ball at the top of the key against a set defense, it’s asking for a turnover or a meh shot. The less Jaylen does or has to do, the better he is. Not everybody has to be a big process the defense guy. I’d prefer his usage a little closer to 27-28%, he’d still put up the exact same scoring numbers.

DHO’s with him and KP should be a weapon, get Jaylen going downhill against a moving defense.

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

Then there's Brogdon, who I think goes right and finishes with his left more than anyone I've ever noticed in green.

And he’s damn good at it. And often finishes with his right when he goes left. It’s a quicker/shorter way to get the shot up since the off hand is closer to the hoop and allows him to get up and under some of the bigger defenders in the paint.

 

[RorschachsMask]

View: https://twitter.com/msinger/status/1692661620780978448?s=20

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Who named him "Juice"?

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

Who named him "Juice"?

@singaporesoxfan should be able to turn that into a good OJ/Jaylen’s turnover problems joke/pun.

 

[singaporesoxfan]

@singaporesoxfan should be able to turn that into a good OJ/Jaylen’s turnover problems joke/pun.

Sadly, it’s not Juice, it’s 7uice, which is much less wordplay friendly. Though 7-Up / juice (and grenadine) is a pretty good Shirley Temple variant

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Who named him "Juice"?

https://www.the7uicefoundation.org/

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

https://www.the7uicefoundation.org/

He gave himself a nickname?

you can’t give yourself a nickname /SportsNight

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

He gave himself a nickname?

you can’t give yourself a nickname /SportsNight

It's not a nickname, it's a brand.

 

[Euclis20]

It's not a nickname, it's a brand.

Yeah no one actually calls him that. Even the sports reference sites, where "The Pharaoh" is somehow listed as one of Tom Brady's nicknames, doesn't have Juice as a nickname for Jaylen (JB and Old Man are what he's got)

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

It's not a nickname, it's a brand.

I don’t recall what Sports Night said about giving yourself a Brand.

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

That's pretty cool, it is a thankless task in that journalists tend to get railed for making non-consensus votes but the proper votes aren't acknowledged. By sending the letter from 7uice Jaylen's expressing the additional millions due to the All NBA vote is going to his foundation to lift others up.

 

[DGreenwood]

If you have an Athletic subscription you can check out Seth Partnow's new 2023 NBA player tiers. Jaylen is in tier 3a along with Bam, JJJ, Donovan Mitchell, Anthony Edwards, and DeAaron Fox. This group represents players ranked 19-24 in the NBA.

Here's the write up on Jaylen:

Jaylen Brown and Anthony Edwards are higher than their regular-season metrics might indicate. Over the past three years, they have been 99th and 128th in RAPM, respectively, while both have hovered right around league-average efficiency in their careers. But both have games that have translated well to the postseason, more definitely in the case of Brown, as he’s played nearly 10 times as many playoff games (105) as Edwards (11).

Their physicality and elite, quick-burst athleticism mean they have the chance to overwhelm even a perfectly schemed defense. Both have limitations — Edwards’ inconsistency as a jump shooter and decision-maker and Brown’s shaky handle in traffic would have to be rectified for either to progress higher — but even with those foibles, they have still been highly effective.

 

[DGreenwood]

Hoops Tonight has Jaylen at #17:

View: https://youtu.be/7nfjxHj5G6w?list=PLYcyiVycsAVt8zYsUiHGknwDBOc1i0hio&t=759

 

[128]

He gave himself a nickname?

you can’t give yourself a nickname /SportsNight

Didn't Kobe start calling himself Black Mamba?

 

[AlNipper49]

He gave himself a nickname?

you can’t give yourself a nickname /SportsNight

Giving oneself a nickname is Streets Ahead.

 

[BigSoxFan]

 

[lovegtm]

Makes and misses aside, Jaylen's 3ball looks soft again. It flattened out a lot last year and got line-drivey; maybe an over-adjustment to what works in the midrange.

 

[Euclis20]

Sharing the court with several legit scoring threats (as opposed to just Tatum) should help open up the floor for him as well, both in terms of better 3 point looks and more open lanes to drive. He's not remotely the passer that Tatum is (who I think could average 6-7 assists per game this year with the new scoring optionts), but once he gets acclimated, I think his efficiency will take a nice jump.

Anecdotally, Brown appears to have gotten a bit bigger this offseason. We'll see how it effects him (he seemed to be moving at 3/4 speed at times in the preseason, but hasn't had any trouble getting to the rim and guys are just bouncing off him).

 

[JM3]

HBD JB

View: https://twitter.com/FoamThumb/status/1716841635655413859

 

[bosockboy]

HBD JB

View: https://twitter.com/FoamThumb/status/1716841635655413859

JB and Raffy born the same day.

 

[JM3]

JB and Raffy born the same day.

& the circle is complete.

https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/rafael-devers-post-extension-performance.39557/page-3#post-5805499

 

[jablo1312]

relatively uninvolved JB performance last night- 11 points on 11 shots (0-4 from 3), 5-2 asst-turnovers. It did feel like he was mostly left out of the offense when the top 6 were on the floor (still played 38 minutes). I'll be interested to see how Mazzulla manages his minutes over the 1st quarter of the season (he got some run w/ the bench last night, kind of a sketchy propisition though as I'd expect that lineup to bleed points).

 

[Auger34]

relatively uninvolved JB performance last night- 11 points on 11 shots (0-4 from 3), 5-2 asst-turnovers. It did feel like he was mostly left out of the offense when the top 6 were on the floor (still played 38 minutes). I'll be interested to see how Mazzulla manages his minutes over the 1st quarter of the season (he got some run w/ the bench last night, kind of a sketchy propisition though as I'd expect that lineup to bleed points).

JB should always be playing with one of White/Holiday and Horford/Porzingis.

Joe had a line-up of Brown, Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet and Horford out there last night. That’s just a recipe for disaster. He should never be out there with a line-up like that. I think it’s a risky proposition for Tatum too but Tatum at least can distribute the ball more effectively than Brown can.

(I also hope to never see double big with Kornet against a quality opponent again.)

 

[Jimbodandy]

JB should always be playing with one of White/Holiday and Horford/Porzingis.

Joe had a line-up of Brown, Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet and Horford out there last night. That’s just a recipe for disaster. He should never be out there with a line-up like that. I think it’s a risky proposition for Tatum too but Tatum at least can distribute the ball more effectively than Brown can.

(I also hope to never see double big with Kornet against a quality opponent again.)

Agree completely on this, and I'm a huge Jaylenphile. Another guard who makes good decisions, either JH or DW, and that lineup is fine. Swap out either Kornet or Pritchard there.

 

[chilidawg]

JB should always be playing with one of White/Holiday and Horford/Porzingis.

Joe had a line-up of Brown, Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet and Horford out there last night. That’s just a recipe for disaster. He should never be out there with a line-up like that. I think it’s a risky proposition for Tatum too but Tatum at least can distribute the ball more effectively than Brown can.

(I also hope to never see double big with Kornet against a quality opponent again.)

From the BB ref +/- box score it looks like 2nd half of the 3rd quarter Brown was out there with Horford, White, Hauser and one of Kornet/KP. That group was +6 over about 5 minutes. Ist half the non Tatum minutes were more neutral, with it being more of a mix of guys rotating through. Brown played all the non Tatum minutes I think. For the game the C's were +4 in the non Tatum minutes and -4 when Brown sat.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/plus-minus/202310250NYK.html

 

[lovegtm]

From the BB ref +/- box score it looks like 2nd half of the 3rd quarter Brown was out there with Horford, White, Hauser and one of Kornet/KP. That group was +6 over about 5 minutes. Ist half the non Tatum minutes were more neutral, with it being more of a mix of guys rotating through. Brown played all the non Tatum minutes I think. For the game the C's were +4 in the non Tatum minutes and -4 when Brown sat.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/plus-minus/202310250NYK.html

That group in the 3rd was a big part of winning the game, and JB was great in it.

I think people are generally too eager to focus on what he can't do rather than on what he can (and I'm in the "trade JB summer 2024" camp).

 

[BigSoxFan]

That group in the 3rd was a big part of winning the game, and JB was great in it.

I think people are generally too eager to focus on what he can't do rather than on what he can (and I'm in the "trade JB summer 2024" camp).

I view it a little differently. The guy is making $60M now and just made All NBA last year. I’m grading Jaylen on a curve. I expect more from him. He doesn’t need to be Tatum, he’ll never be that good, but he should routinely impact games more than guys like Jrue and White.

So, when he’s playing passively, making careless errors, not paying attention on D, dribbling like he has a cast on both hands, it gets frustrating at times.

The “good” version of JB is very good. When we see that version with “good” JT, this team doesn’t lose often.

 

[lovegtm]

I view it a little differently. The guy is making $60M now and just made All NBA last year. I’m grading Jaylen on a curve. I expect more from him. He doesn’t need to be Tatum, he’ll never be that good, but he should routinely impact games more than guys like Jrue and White.

So, when he’s playing passively, making careless errors, not paying attention on D, dribbling like he has a cast on both hands, it gets frustrating at times.

The “good” version of JB is very good. When we see that version with “good” JT, this team doesn’t lose often.

Minor but sort of important nitpick: he's making $31M now, less than KP and Jrue. He's good value in his current role.

He needs to preserve his trade value ofc, but the $60M part hasn't kicked in yet.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Minor but sort of important nitpick: he's making $31M now, less than KP and Jrue. He's good value in his current role.

He needs to preserve his trade value ofc, but the $60M part hasn't kicked in yet.

Yeah, I was too lazy to edit to make more clear but the fact that he got the contract means expectations are higher, even if the cash hasn’t come in yet. But I’m sure there will be plenty of games where “good” Jaylen shows us and reminds us why he got the bag in the first place.

 

[benhogan]

JB should always be playing with one of White/Holiday and Horford/Porzingis.

Joe had a line-up of Brown, Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet and Horford out there last night. That’s just a recipe for disaster. He should never be out there with a line-up like that. I think it’s a risky proposition for Tatum too but Tatum at least can distribute the ball more effectively than Brown can.

(I also hope to never see double big with Kornet against a quality opponent again.)

Yea agree with your line of thought.

I'd like to see Jaylen play with Horford, Jrue, White & Stevens

Let Pritchard/Hauser bombers spread the floor with Porzingis/Tatum + White or Jrue

I'm fine with PP/Hauser getting their 3pt stroke together, but Kornet is really struggling to add value. He's tall and easily gets pushed around, CJMs leash will keep on getting shorter if he doesn't wake up

 

[Auger34]

I view it a little differently. The guy is making $60M now and just made All NBA last year. I’m grading Jaylen on a curve. I expect more from him. He doesn’t need to be Tatum, he’ll never be that good, but he should routinely impact games more than guys like Jrue and White.

So, when he’s playing passively, making careless errors, not paying attention on D, dribbling like he has a cast on both hands, it gets frustrating at times.

The “good” version of JB is very good. When we see that version with “good” JT, this team doesn’t lose often.

Isn't there a flip side to that coin? He made All-NBA so shouldn't he get a longer leash than one regular season game before people want to destroy him?

(Just to cut this off at the knees, I know the All-NBA selection was due to injuries and getting a favorable positional boost. Ok, so he's a top 30 player, the point still stands.)

I also understand that recency bias is a very real thing and the last time we saw him in anything other than a pre-season game, he was vomiting all over himself in a Game 7.

I get the frustration, trust me, every single player on the team can frustrate me at least a few times a game. What bothers me is that Brown gets a disproportionate amount of criticism/hate, and I don't mean the people who are raising some concerns about how he will fit in a more egalitarian offense, that's fair. It's not hard to find the type of criticism I am talking about.

 

[Auger34]

From the BB ref +/- box score it looks like 2nd half of the 3rd quarter Brown was out there with Horford, White, Hauser and one of Kornet/KP. That group was +6 over about 5 minutes. Ist half the non Tatum minutes were more neutral, with it being more of a mix of guys rotating through. Brown played all the non Tatum minutes I think. For the game the C's were +4 in the non Tatum minutes and -4 when Brown sat.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/plus-minus/202310250NYK.html

The time I am thinking of was in the 2nd quarter. It looks like the line-up was Horford, Pritchard, White and Kornet. For some reason, I really don't remember White being out there, but I guess he was.

I am kind of struggling to put an exact amount on the time they were on the court together based off of that graph but, from the eye test, it was an absolute disaster. It's listed as a -3 in the graph (but again, I am not sure how many minutes it was)

 

[Euclis20]

On the $60M, it's fun to note that Jaylen won't actually earn that much in a single season until 2028. At which point I assume there will be at least a dozen other guys making similar amounts or greater. His salary has always been much ado about nothing, and everyone in the media knows this (and acknowledges it) while at the same time hammering him for it. It's an odd dynamic.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Isn't there a flip side to that coin? He made All-NBA so shouldn't he get a longer leash than one regular season game before people want to destroy him?

(Just to cut this off at the knees, I know the All-NBA selection was due to injuries and getting a favorable positional boost. Ok, so he's a top 30 player, the point still stands.)

I also understand that recency bias is a very real thing and the last time we saw him in anything other than a pre-season game, he was vomiting all over himself in a Game 7.

I get the frustration, trust me, every single player on the team can frustrate me at least a few times a game. What bothers me is that Brown gets a disproportionate amount of criticism/hate, and I don't mean the people who are raising some concerns about how he will fit in a more egalitarian offense, that's fair. It's not hard to find the type of criticism I am talking about.

I've given up on that. When he has a bad game, they look at the stats. When he has a great game, it's all "wow, Jaylen only had 2 TOs, it seemed like a lot more. I was also shocked that he had 22 points on only 9 shots, go figure."

I feel like I'm talking to the "Danny bit Tree Rollins" folks or the "Bill Belichick taped the Rams walkthrough" people sometimes. C'est la vie.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Isn't there a flip side to that coin? He made All-NBA so shouldn't he get a longer leash than one regular season game before people want to destroy him?

(Just to cut this off at the knees, I know the All-NBA selection was due to injuries and getting a favorable positional boost. Ok, so he's a top 30 player, the point still stands.)

I also understand that recency bias is a very real thing and the last time we saw him in anything other than a pre-season game, he was vomiting all over himself in a Game 7.

I get the frustration, trust me, every single player on the team can frustrate me at least a few times a game. What bothers me is that Brown gets a disproportionate amount of criticism/hate, and I don't mean the people who are raising some concerns about how he will fit in a more egalitarian offense, that's fair. It's not hard to find the type of criticism I am talking about.

Sure. He is absolutely getting hurt by people seeing Tatum’s greatness and comparing it to Jaylen. He’s also made some off-the-court missteps (and there are good things on that front too, if we’re being fair) that could factor into peoples’ perception of him.

But many of the criticisms of Brown’s game are valid, IMO. Pointing those out when they’re occurring shouldn’t be off limits as long as people are being fair with the praise when he plays well.

The good thing about sports is narratives can change quickly. We are at our best when he’s rolling. And he was quite good in the Warriors Game 6 that closed us out so it’s not like he’s some playoff choker or anything.

 

[tims4wins]

Re: "he only had 2 turnovers" let's not forget literally the 2nd possession of the game when JB threw it directly to the Knicks, but they fumbled it out of bounds. It's that type of shit that is ridiculously irritating. If I knew how to post / link it I would but it was BRUTAL for anyone with DVR or YTTV.

He gets the ball at the top of the key, drives right past a KP screen, into the teeth of the defense, gets caught mid air, and then just chucks it to RJ Barrett. It's just an unacceptable type of play from anyone, let alone a supermax guy.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I've given up on that. When he has a bad game, they look at the stats. When he has a great game, it's all "wow, Jaylen only had 2 TOs, it seemed like a lot more. I was also shocked that he had 22 points on only 9 shots, go figure."

I feel like I'm talking to the "Danny bit Tree Rollins" folks or the "Bill Belichick taped the Rams walkthrough" people sometimes. C'est la vie.

True dat.

Jaylen played 38 minutes last night, covering mostly the best scorers the Knicks have, and the C's only gave up 104 points (the Knicks averaged 116/game last year) and 54 of those points came from behind the arc, on mostly contested 3's, and folks are still randomly dropping in comments about his defense last night.

I personally watched him all night on the floor last night, and I thought he played excellent defense for almost the entire game. He missed a few assignments off ball, but so did literally everyone else on the team. It's like if Jaylen wasn't out there, opposing teams would score zero points, because apparently, only Jaylen is the guy anyone ever scores on.

 

[Auger34]

Sure. He is absolutely getting hurt by people seeing Tatum’s greatness and comparing it to Jaylen. He’s also made some off-the-court missteps (and there are good things on that front too, if we’re being fair) that could factor into peoples’ perception of him.

But many of the criticisms of Brown’s game are valid, IMO. Pointing those out when they’re occurring shouldn’t be off limits as long as people are being fair with the praise when he plays well.

The good thing about sports is narratives can change quickly. We are at our best when he’s rolling. And he was quite good in the Warriors Game 6 that closed us out so it’s not like he’s some playoff choker or anything.

I had a long post typed out for this, but bottom line here is the bolded. I 100% agree, but I would also like to add the caveat that the praise should be the same as the criticism..so praise without caveats.

IE, if he has a great game, it shouldn't be "Well, Jaylen was 14-22 and 3-6 from 3...but there was that one play where he lost Julius Randle off ball and then he dunked!" because Lord knows I am not seeing many "Jesus, Jaylen had a TERRIBLE 60 seconds but he did have 5 assists".

EDIT: My overall issue is that I hate when people don't call things down the middle. Honestly, it bothers me too much. I am fine with criticizing whoever when it's warranted (especially in a game thread). I'm not talking about you @BigSoxFan but there's a decent sized contingent here that will criticize Jaylen no matter what and not do the same for other players. That's what annoys the shit out of me and why I always seemingly stick up for him.