Jaylen Brown 2024-25, Year 9: What they gonna say now?!

slamminsammya

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i think it becomes a conversation if and when jaylen gets his three point shot back to where it was 3 or 4 season ago. but also if tatum gets his best 3p form back we are talking about the best player in the league maybe.

the playmaking gap is still huge though, they’ve both grown a lot in that area.
 

lovegtm

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i think it becomes a conversation if and when jaylen gets his three point shot back to where it was 3 or 4 season ago. but also if tatum gets his best 3p form back we are talking about the best player in the league maybe.

the playmaking gap is still huge though, they’ve both grown a lot in that area.
If Tatum can ever somehow re-find that magical 2020 shotmaking, he's the MVP, and I'm not sure it's that close.

It's just so, so hard to hit shots like that though. The list of guys who have done it over a long period is Steph and maybe Dame.
 

slamminsammya

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If Tatum can ever somehow re-find that magical 2020 shotmaking, he's the MVP, and I'm not sure it's that close.

It's just so, so hard to hit shots like that though. The list of guys who have done it over a long period is Steph and maybe Dame.
harden? during like 2015-2019.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Going back to this thread is always fun reading. I will not call out specific posters (as I feel it's unfair and could come across as dunking, which is not my intent, as I respect the b-ball knowledge of all of the posters quoted below):

https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/jaylen-brown-underrated.17489/
Not trying to dunk on anyone either but I didn't remember the Thon Maker discussion in that thread. It struck me mainly because Maker is trying to get back in the NBA and was waived this week in preparation of a G-League stint.
 

slamminsammya

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o man i just looked it up in 2018-2019 garden took 12 spot up 3s per game hitting 36%. next closest were kemba and lillard at 6 per game. what a crazy season that was for harden
 

lovegtm

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o man i just looked it up in 2018-2019 garden took 12 spot up 3s per game hitting 36%. next closest were kemba and lillard at 6 per game. what a crazy season that was for harden
iirc that was when some teams just started shading him to drive every possession, and giving him a clear lane to the hoop, so as not to allow those 3s (and because they knew he wouldn't take mid-rangers)
 

Jimbodandy

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Yeah, I don't think people here or nationally really grok how far ahead Tatum is as a playmaking engine.

That said, I was re-watching the Finals recently, and Jaylen had some truly massive stretches where he drove the offense with Tatum out. Game 3 late 3rd quarter, in particular, stands out. It wasn't "Jaylen but really DWhite" either; it was Jaylen leading an offense on the biggest stage.

Shocking progress in the year following the Miami series.
People talk about his left hand or his dribbling, as far as his biggest leap last season. His biggest improvement (by far) was just making the right play/read. The game slowed down just enough for him to be able to toe the line of controlled ultra aggression, which I had all but given up on ever happening tbh lol.

If you make the right play with this roster, they will help you be a floor raiser. And that’s what changed with Jaylen last season, he became a good floor raiser.
Agreed with both of these. Maybe he's the exception that proves the rule, but anyone making the "you are who you are at 25" statement deserves to be mocked going forward. Guy became the passer that we hoped that he could be and kinda gave up on happening...and he did it during the season...his age 27 season. He's not Tatum in that, and he might only be the fourth best passer on the team, and that's still super useful for a guy who can regularly leave his guy in the dust due to his explosion and threat to shoot from almost anywhere reliably. If he can score on all three levels and find shots for others when teams are collapsing on him, even if he doesn't do it as well as Tatum, that's a super valuable player.
 

lovegtm

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Agreed with both of these. Maybe he's the exception that proves the rule, but anyone making the "you are who you are at 25" statement deserves to be mocked going forward. Guy became the passer that we hoped that he could be and kinda gave up on happening...and he did it during the season...his age 27 season. He's not Tatum in that, and he might only be the fourth best passer on the team, and that's still super useful for a guy who can regularly leave his guy in the dust due to his explosion and threat to shoot from almost anywhere reliably. If he can score on all three levels and find shots for others when teams are collapsing on him, even if he doesn't do it as well as Tatum, that's a super valuable player.
I love that it showed up in the on/off stats too. They were +9.1 last year in lineups with Brown and no Tatum. That is bonkers for a lead playmaker in the staggered minutes without the alpha star.

For comparison to other good teams' lead creators:
JDub without SGA: +2
SGA without JDub: +11.1

Murray without Jokic: -14 (lol)
Jokic without Murray: +7.7

Kyrie without Luka: +0.9
Luka without Kyrie: +1.67

KAT without Ant: +1.99
Ant without Towns: +6.8

Jaylen was insanely elite, and I think DARKO, which is usually great, dings him because Tatum was +15 without Brown, because Tatum is an impact god.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I love that it showed up in the on/off stats too. They were +9.1 last year in lineups with Brown and no Tatum. That is bonkers for a lead playmaker in the staggered minutes without the alpha star.

For comparison to other good teams' lead creators:
JDub without SGA: +2
SGA without JDub: +11.1

Murray without Jokic: -14 (lol)
Jokic without Murray: +7.7

Kyrie without Luka: +0.9
Luka without Kyrie: +1.67

KAT without Ant: +1.99
Ant without Towns: +6.8

Jaylen was insanely elite, and I think DARKO, which is usually great, dings him because Tatum was +15 without Brown, because Tatum is an impact god.
Very interesting; thanks for posting. Where are you getting your stats? Cleaning the Glass?

This site - https://www.fantasylabs.com/nba/on-off/ - has on/off stats but not sure how accurate they are. From that site, one more:

Maxey without Embiid: +0.98
Embiid without Maxey: + 5.72.

Man the Cs were so good last year: here are some NRtg with JT and JB off the court:

90343
 

InstaFace

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Not trying to dunk on anyone either but I didn't remember the Thon Maker discussion in that thread. It struck me mainly because Maker is trying to get back in the NBA and was waived this week in preparation of a G-League stint.
He briefly torched us while playing for Milwaukee though, so it's a little like trauma getting burned into our memories. He's therefore a permanent fixture on the (Frank Catalanotto Memorial) Lead Pipe List.
 

lovegtm

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Very interesting; thanks for posting. Where are you getting your stats? Cleaning the Glass?

This site - https://www.fantasylabs.com/nba/on-off/ - has on/off stats but not sure how accurate they are. From that site, one more:

Maxey without Embiid: +0.98
Embiid without Maxey: + 5.72.

Man the Cs were so good last year: here are some NRtg with JT and JB off the court:

View attachment 90343
I use https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba

It's pretty great.
 

Euclis20

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Thanks!

To update, just because I was curious:

Embiid on, Maxey off: +4.26
Maxey on, Embiid off: +0.38.

However, filtering only the games when both Embiid and Maxey played:

Embiid on, Maxey off: +7.10
Maxey on, Embiid off: +18.16.

Wow, Maxey should give a good portion of his extension to Joel.
Yeah anyone pushing the "Maxey is actually the driving force behind the Sixers playoff chances" is choosing to forget that the Sixers were at a 30 win pace last year with Maxey as the lead guy.
 

lovegtm

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To be clear, I don't think that "awesome +/- with the #1 guy sitting" is a necessary condition for a guy to be good, but it's probably a sufficient one, especially when the #1 guy is also killing it (means there isn't weird lineup stuff favoring one of them).

Being able to lead units that don't have another max star on them is so, so valuable for roster building and playoff winning.
 

Sox Puppet

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Link to the video. I came away from it admiring Jaylen even more, though part of me thinks he's subtly calling out SAS for being the "unnamed source" himself.
 

Euclis20

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Bunt4aTriple

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That's a pretty appealing 2nd season. My first thought is that I believe only one of these guys (SGA) has children, and family was a major, major part of season 1. It feels like the vast majority of off the court screen time for Lebron/Sabonis/Tatum/Butler involved them with their kids, plus we were actually in the room when Ant's kid was born. Gonna look pretty different this time.
Isn't JB Luka's daddy?
 

Kliq

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The Harden cameras have a chance for great unintentional comedy.
 

lovegtm

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This is a pretty amazing lineup, especially if they can get actual access to Harden's offcourt life.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Are you allowed to film inside casinos?
Depends on the casino. Most allow filming/photos while not at a table, but there is an entire influencer industry built around folks gambling in casinos and filming while doing it. Places like Resorts World in Vegas seem to actively encourage it, with people using tripod setups and everything, presumably because it attracts more folks who want to gamble and film it....
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Jaylen currently frigid from 3. In the last three games he is 1-21 from behind the arc, 28-47 from inside the arc.

Still a small sample, but that's some pretty bad shootin', Tex.

On the other hand, he was 9-10 from the line, bumping him up over 80% for the season thus far, which would be a career high.
 

lovegtm

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Jaylen currently frigid from 3. In the last three games he is 1-21 from behind the arc, 28-47 from inside the arc.

Still a small sample, but that's some pretty bad shootin', Tex.

On the other hand, he was 9-10 from the line, bumping him up over 80% for the season thus far, which would be a career high.
I'm sure the 3 will come around.

On the plus side, their last two wins have been "JB, go bully guys in the 4th, over and over and over."
 

Euclis20

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It is nice that his 3 point slump has coincided with both his willingness to just bully his way into the paint and get to the line, where he's averaging a career high. No particular reason to think the 3 point shooting won't come around, at least up to 33-35%.
 

TripleOT

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Lots of room in the paint for JB to slice and dice. Maybe put Jrue on the perimeter and JB in the dunker’s spot more often, along with the many deep post ups he has been getting the last few games.

Brown’s passing in the half court has vastly improved the past two seasons. It’s like having two Tatums on the team, when it comes to running your half court offense through a wing. Mazzulla has really unlocked JB’s all around game. It started at the beginning of last season, when they went to the two man game with JB and KP, and Brown got very comfortable setting up his teammates, building as a playmaker all last season.
 

Auger34

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I think Jaylen is much more important to this team than most want to admit
 

Auger34

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Maybe I am sensitive to the discourse around Jaylen on this board previously.

I might be completely wrong.

But I think there’s a decent percentage of this board that thinks that Tatum can win, and win a lot, as long as there are 2 other starters around him.

I don’t agree and I never have.
 

lars10

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I, for one, think that these past few games show how important JB is to the team.. it's always been about Tatum and Brown. You can put two or three other players with them and you'll almost always have a winner. Just going to get better as they continue being in their primes.
 

Euclis20

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I mean, obviously they miss him. And just as obviously, they can (and have) won a ton of regular season games without him (15-1 since the start of last year). He could miss the entire season and I'm confident that Boston would still be at home in R1, but he's an absolute necessity if they want to repeat.

The last few games we've missed our 2nd and 3rd best scorers, and with both Brown and KP out they've relied even more heavily on the 3 point shot. Boston averaged an even 50 3PAs/game with JB, now up to 53.5 per game, and coincidentally or not, the 3P% has dipped from .393 to just .313 without him.
 

timelysarcasm

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Yeah, I don't know who wouldn't want to admit it - the guy was the Finals MVP for a reason and he's the best answer to bully scoring when the 3 balls aren't falling.

Not only that, but the strategy of trapping and doubling Tatum wouldn't be nearly as effective with JB out there. He was missed a lot Wednesday and tonight.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I, for one, think that these past few games show how important JB is to the team.. it's always been about Tatum and Brown. You can put two or three other players with them and you'll almost always have a winner. Just going to get better as they continue being in their primes.
Jaylen is critical to this team when KP is out as it exposes our lack of frontcourt depth now that Horford is aging. Being forced to play non-NBA rotation pieces in Walsh and Tillman is suboptimal. Queta truly has been a lifesaver this year.
 

Spelunker

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Has anyone ever said that Jaylen isn't good? He's the second or, at worst, third best player on the team. Who that heck is arguing otherwise.?
 

lovegtm

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Who are these mythical posters who think the team doesn't need Jaylen to win, particularly in the playoffs?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Who are these mythical posters who think the team doesn't need Jaylen to win, particularly in the playoffs?
I think most fans assume this is still a really good team without KP and Jaylen which I disagree with. They were 13.5 point favorites last night which to me was absurd. We have also benefitted from playing one of the easiest schedules in the league this far that doesn’t ramp up until after the new year. Our greatest challenges this year are complacency and health.
 

InstaFace

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I think if KP and Jaylen were out for the year (knock on wood!), we'd still be a play-in team with average health, and seed 3-6 with good health and a 100% Tatum. Jrue has started the year slow but to my eye has been picking up speed. D White just keeps surprising us with how good he can be and how much improvement he can show even at age 30. Queta improving, Pritchard improving, Horford holding steady. Cookies and Cream take us to "juggernaut that gets compared to the best teams ever", but even without them, there aren't many teams that would be favored over us in a series (though there's certainly a few).

None of that is to say that Jaylen isn't a great player or important to this team, it's more a commentary on how deep and well-coached we are and what a deep and complementary roster we have assembled. Just look at some of the dreck rosters that Tatum has dragged to respectability (usually with Brown alongside him, but not always). It's easy to underrate Tatum in the course of trying to properly praise Jaylen Brown's many sterling qualities.