Might be?
Cutting him only hurts the Red Sox. He's not Aaron Hernandez. Having him in the system isn't toxic.
He has options and can easily be returned to AAA, or benched. Cutting him is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Jarren Duran: Today We Like Him
- Thread starter E5 Yaz
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Cutting him only hurts the Red Sox. He's not Aaron Hernandez. Having him in the system isn't toxic.
He has options and can easily be returned to AAA, or benched. Cutting him is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
He can’t really be sent down right now because they don’t have any other OF on the 40-man roster. They could bench him, but it means Franchy and JBJ play. They need to hurry up and trade for an OF or two, but I’ve been saying that for months. Maybe today’s the day.
I really think Cora needs to give this kid a day off.
Watching on NESN, I realized that was an easy inside the park grannie when he didn’t even break after the ball. My wife became a true Sox in that moment as she was irate. Nice to see the spark ignite, maybe that was the silver lining.
Watching on NESN, I realized that was an easy inside the park grannie when he didn’t even break after the ball. My wife became a true Sox in that moment as she was irate. Nice to see the spark ignite, maybe that was the silver lining.
To the bolded... I think that's the visceral reaction that every one is having and it's not an outrageous take given the entire package that we've seen so far.
Like I said, I think the kid needs some humility. Those closer to the situation will hopefully make the right call.
So here's my one true question for the board:
How are you all going to feel when Duran is in the lineup this afternoon, in the leadoff spot?
Toronto is throwing Manoah, a right hander. You know it's going to happen.....
How are you all going to feel when Duran is in the lineup this afternoon, in the leadoff spot?
Toronto is throwing Manoah, a right hander. You know it's going to happen.....
Honestly, I won't be happy about it. Duran is not the difference maker that he was a month ago and ATM really offers no more than JBJ or Franchy. If playing him was a clear cut difference between winning and losing games in the midst of a playoff chase I would hold my nose and understand, but I don't think that's that case right now.
We've seen this before and the manager usually acts to bench the player the next day, right? It's probably warranted. Javy Baez was benched last year for forgetting how many outs were in an inning. If a star can get benched for a mental lapse, so can a kid.
Maybe Duran had the right intentions and could not have impacted the play but, knowing absolutely zilch about his day-to-day play, him standing basically still with shrugged "don't give a shit" shoulders was pretty shocking. The thing about it is that the play was lazy, but he also DOES need to back Verdugo up because Verdugo could bobble it, trip...whatever.
He'll get plenty more chances but another mental lapse or lazy reaction like that and you guys probably run him out of town.
Maybe Duran had the right intentions and could not have impacted the play but, knowing absolutely zilch about his day-to-day play, him standing basically still with shrugged "don't give a shit" shoulders was pretty shocking. The thing about it is that the play was lazy, but he also DOES need to back Verdugo up because Verdugo could bobble it, trip...whatever.
He'll get plenty more chances but another mental lapse or lazy reaction like that and you guys probably run him out of town.
He has a .522 OPS this month and is nearly 26. If he’s not going to hit, can’t field, doesn’t have youth on his side, and won’t hustle, what good is he to this organization? I wouldn’t release him, but I’d certainly look to move him for basically anything that would contribute to the Red Sox. I’m glad they gave him a look to see what we have, but anyone who watches him in the outfield knows it’s an adventure at best and that he frequently seems lost in his at bats.
Hopefully this is/was a learning moment and it lights a fire under his ass. I'm interested in how he responds on the field far more than his body language or what he says to the media. Some people just aren't good at that sort of thing.
With that said, I always thought his most likely outcome was a 4th OF and I don't want him getting much more than another 30-40 PA if he's still striking out in over a third of his PA. He's been pretty bad for awhile now.
I hadn't heard anything bad about Duran's personality when he was in Portland fwiw. That was in 2019 though.
They can DFA one of their 3-4 crap RP and add someone to the 40, no?
Sure, although they’ve been reluctant to do that all year despite the ineptitude of the OF, for some reason. Christin Stewart looks like the best potential call up.
Perhaps the most frustrating aspect of the teams struggles the last month is that neither Duran nor Cordero look like useful players going forward. Good times.
Pinch Runner/4th OF. Throw in in a trade.
I don't think Jarren Duran is good and I've never liked him as a prospect. You still don't cut him. It's wasting an asset. He'd get claimed instantly. It's such an extreme measure and an unneeded one.
I could not agree more. I also think that a few here may have incorrectly used the word cut instead of calling for a demotion.
It didn't happen in-game, but Manny Ramirez was benched in 2003 for Jaking it. Jarren Duran is no Manny Ramirez. He's earned at least a seat at the end of the bench and if Bloom would do his job an extended stay in Worcester.
https://www.milforddailynews.com/story/sports/2003/09/04/guregian-manny-s-back-little/41178144007/
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=40165f2352cd37a5JmltdHM9MTY1ODU4OTEwOCZpZ3VpZD1mN2I5N2NmYS01NzY2LTRmYjAtYTczOC01OTAzYTFmZTc1MWImaW5zaWQ9NTE1NQ&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=c553e2cb-0a99-11ed-8658-aa5a82edff0b&u=a1aHR0cDovL2Jhc2ViYWxsLWxpbmdvLmNvbS8yMDEyLzA2L2ItbC10ZXJtLW9mLXRoZS1kYXktamFraW5nLWl0Lw&ntb=1
https://www.milforddailynews.com/story/sports/2003/09/04/guregian-manny-s-back-little/41178144007/
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=40165f2352cd37a5JmltdHM9MTY1ODU4OTEwOCZpZ3VpZD1mN2I5N2NmYS01NzY2LTRmYjAtYTczOC01OTAzYTFmZTc1MWImaW5zaWQ9NTE1NQ&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=c553e2cb-0a99-11ed-8658-aa5a82edff0b&u=a1aHR0cDovL2Jhc2ViYWxsLWxpbmdvLmNvbS8yMDEyLzA2L2ItbC10ZXJtLW9mLXRoZS1kYXktamFraW5nLWl0Lw&ntb=1
Duran's reaction is consistent with many different mental states, all of which might sensibly account for his behavior (I don't mean justify, simply explain). For instance, maybe he doesn't care that much. Maybe he was demoralized by his own gaffe. Maybe he reacted like a little kid who can't stack the blocks just right, so he sits down and pouts. Maybe he was simply dumbfounded by the course of events, shocked into a kind of paralysis (shellshocked, so to speak). Maybe he was some combination of some of these things, or maybe these descriptions don't quite capture it. Here's the safest thing I think one can say: Whatever was going through his head at that moment, it wasn't the right thing, and it didn't result in the right reaction, which, as folks have duly noted, would have been to run like hell after the ball, even if you knew you probably couldn't do a damn thing about it. If a bear grabs my child and starts to run away, I run after the bear, even if I have every reason to believe that my response is likely to be futile. So yes, no matter what was going through his head, it wasn't what you'd wish to see, even if some undesirable mental states would surely be worse than others.
Any of those "mental states" might be excusable in the moment. The entitled douchebaggery with the media after the game is not. You screwed up, take responsibility for it. That's not just baseball etiquette.
The problem is that the 40 man roster is really unbalanced. They have 26 pitchers and 18 position players on it (some guys are 60 day IL and don't count). At some point Chaim is going to have to trade three nickels for a dime just to get some room back.
If you're benching Duran and JD is still not able to go, you're pretty much forced to play Jackie in center, Refsnyder in right, Franchy at first, Plawecki catching, and Vazquez at DH. That's crummy, but probably no crummier than the lineup with Duran leading off.
I don't want to have a thoughtless, knee-jerk response to this particular incident, but I am finding myself wondering about the clubhouse culture of the 2022 Boston Red Sox.
In full disclosure, I have no proprietary knowledge of the internal affairs of this team and this post is entirely speculative, but I am curious as to whether anyone else here is concerned about the tapestry being created by several disparate incidents (in fairness, these may be entirely unrelated).
In full disclosure, I have no proprietary knowledge of the internal affairs of this team and this post is entirely speculative, but I am curious as to whether anyone else here is concerned about the tapestry being created by several disparate incidents (in fairness, these may be entirely unrelated).
- Houck and Duran (initially) refuse to get vaccinated for the good of the team, which hurts the Sox during a 3-game Toronto set
- After Sox make some mental mistakes (possibly fueled by fatigue) leading to at least one loss in Tampa, Cora calls attention to how hard the Rays consistently play despite injuries
- After seemingly-unsuccessful contract extension talks, Devers and Bogaerts "crack up" after Alex Speier asked Devers what his professed value was
- Duran loses fly ball in the lights and stands around watching, leading to back-breaking around the park home run. Duran does not appear to be contrite after the game, and contradicts Cora's disclosure that members of Cora's staff or other players discussed the incident with him.
Overall I'm not thrilled with the holes on this team and while I wish that Bloom would be a more proactive at times I want to see how he constructs this team for next season. There are going to be a lot of moving parts concerning the roster and money coming off the books. That said I'm not sure what you are expecting from him in this instance as there are no other outfielders on the 40 man who are not on the IL.
I guess just do nothing and hope things will change? This has to be one of the least productive OF in team history; yet they haven’t done much of anything to try to improve it, it’s somewhat baffling. At some point, would be nice to turn assets form the farm system into something that can improve the big league team.
Going up against Manoa will be difficult but if this team doesn’t bounce back and plays lethargic and disinterested it’ll be indicative of a general attitude that I’ll read as “quitting” on par with the 2011 club- even worse.
Edit- and would seriously consider the Big Sell and replacing Cora to usher in a new team and direction in ‘23. I’d consider this current club as the last breath of the post-Ortiz era Sox.
Edit- and would seriously consider the Big Sell and replacing Cora to usher in a new team and direction in ‘23. I’d consider this current club as the last breath of the post-Ortiz era Sox.
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Calling up Christian Stewart is pretty much like doing nothing. If they want OF help this year, they need to acquire it outside the organization. Rafaela is at least a year away.
I am going to the game.
I haven’t booed a Red Sox player since I was a teenager. I can’t promise that I don’t break my streak today.
Well, I agree with that. Their current OF for next year is Verdugo (and I guess Duran, Refsnyder, and Franchy). The organizational depth at the position right now is a joke. But if they want to bench Duran to send a message, they do need to call a body up and Stewart looks like the best of a bunch of crappy options.
He's not on the 40 so wouldn't the Sox have to cut someone who isn't even involved to send a message to Duran? That's sending some kind of message. Not sure it's the intended one.
I thought the play was actually an interesting example of how a fast outfielder can still be bad.
Anyone can lose the ball in the sky (though odd how much it’s happening), but the fact that it landed so absurdly far away. If he’s locked in, sees the ball off the bat/that first second, he should at least be headed in the right direction.
Duran basically didn’t move then started coming in on a ball headed to the CF warning track. I’m guessing JBJ, even if he lost the ball, would have been closer than Duran.
Lack of focus, slow reaction, poor reads, who knows. But he’s very bad out there, even with his speed.
Anyone can lose the ball in the sky (though odd how much it’s happening), but the fact that it landed so absurdly far away. If he’s locked in, sees the ball off the bat/that first second, he should at least be headed in the right direction.
Duran basically didn’t move then started coming in on a ball headed to the CF warning track. I’m guessing JBJ, even if he lost the ball, would have been closer than Duran.
Lack of focus, slow reaction, poor reads, who knows. But he’s very bad out there, even with his speed.
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It’s fair to wonder what the vibe is like in there, but I don’t see these examples as correlative. Particularly #3 — Devers and Bogaerts response to a reporter asking (through a translator, likely, to Devers) what their value is. Laughing that question off seems like a perfectly reasonable response, and one that their agents likely trained them for.
The clubhouse energy last October was electric, with pretty much the same guys, and despite his struggles there’ve been reports about Story’s leadership and positive clubhouse presence. If anything, they may be missing the kind of merry prankster-type role that Kiké fills when he’s healthy.
As for Duran, he should have been traded at the top of his value last summer. I hope he strings together a few hits this week so it can finally happen.
This is very disappointing to see.
Cora had a chance to demonstrate leadership by showing Duran that neither his effort nor his words were acceptable, and he declined to do so.
While I am well aware that the counter-argument would be not to allow a young player to stew on his mistakes, in my opinion he’s making a mistake here.
Losing Ort or Valdez or Brasier or Wong or Hernandez or whomever would be collateral damage I guess. But, looks like nothing has happened and the Sox are rolling out the same crew again tonight. Maybe the turnaround starts today!
I think he broke in because he read the batter, who reacted with disgust that he had hit a medium depth fly all with the bases loaded. I think the ball carried much further than either the hitter or fielder expected.
Curious if anyone knows where JBJ was on the play?
Cora gonna let him get booed. Let the fans be the ones who tell him he done bad.
I seem to recall a replay angle that showed JBJ heading in the direction of the ball, but obviously further away than Verdugo ... but that might have been my imagination
Good to know. Say what you will about JBJ, but his OF instincts have not suffered a whit.
Not to get political here, but Alex Cora has become the Susan Collins of baseball. 'He's certainly learned his lesson'.
We know how that turned out.
Devers to the IL would be less than ideal, with no available IF on the 40-man. Could be Fitzy’s big chance!
If Devers has a bad hammy, he could be out until the rosters expand. Without his bat in the lineup, they are even more vulnerable. If he has to go on the IL, it might just be white flag time.
I don't want this to seem like over-reaction to a 3 game stretch of terrible play, but if Devers goes on the IL, that's enough to make me have serious doubts about their ability to compete in the games before the trade deadline.
If they go 2-8, it's over. (IMO, obviously.)
If they go 2-8, it's over. (IMO, obviously.)
Ah, I didn't see or read his response after the game. They are obviously two different things, his reaction in the moment and his subsequent reaction to his reaction in the moment. On the latter, anything but genuine remorse (no matter what his state of mind actually was in the moment), a firm resolve never to let something like this happen again, and an acknowledgment that he needs to prove himself to people he let down (as in, somehow make it up to people by showing he's not "that kind of guy," even if he was that kind of guy in that moment). If he had a bad response after the game, that's a whole other level of bad.
His instincts are still excellent, but everything is pretty terrible. While his reads are still elite, hes noticeably slower than he was at 27/28 (not unexpected by any means) and its showing in the defensive numbers - hes no longer an elite defensive CF - merely average. He might also be the worst hitting starter in the league.
The entitled douchbaggery after the game is I think what cinches it for me. Losing the ball in the sky? Happens to every outfielder. Him just standing there and staring at the ball is the sort of thing I expect in little league. But even then I can try to justify it---he saw Verdugo would get there much faster, no point in putting in a fake hustle just to gum up the play more, etc. But his reaction after the game is the issue.
I want to sympathize with him. He's 25. He spent most of his life being one of the best baseball players around him and then got drafted and things have not gone great for him. I can understand that----when I was 22 I enrolled in a MD/PhD program and went from consistently feeling like I was one of the smartest guys in the room to at best decidely average and it shook me up. For Duran, the minor leagues have been a struggle, the pandemic stalled his development, etc. But if you're a professional ballplayer you have to understand that perception of you matters and if it looks like you gave up on a play like that the image sticks in people's minds. If you're a star, you can talk about how you're not going to try to be "Johnny Hustle" out there but when you're still trying to break into the big leagues? You can't do that. And if you do, you have to do a mea culpa afterwards. Look at what Alec Bohm did after a similar situation. He managed to recover from it. You can't just brush it off with arrogance and the fact that he doesn't get that makes me worry that he doesn't have the right mindset and humility to work his way up to being a regular on the team, let alone a star.
The Toronto feed linked to earlier shows it. JBJ is closing in just as Verdugo gathers the ball