Jarren Duran: Today We Like Him

mikeford

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This guy is not a major leaguer for a multitude of reasons but his complete lack of caring has gotta be one of them.

Not yanking the guy immediately reflects poorly on Cora. Continuing to bat him leadoff also reflects badly on Cora.
 

sodenj5

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I can understand losing the ball. We’ve oddly seen it several times this year and I don’t know why it’s been more prevalent this year than in years prior.

Standing around with your thumb up your ass while watching your teammate bust his ass to cover for you is inexcusable. “Getting in Verdugo’s way” is a nonsense excuse he made up in his head that sounded good.

People get killed for not running out a ground ball even though the out is a 98% certainty, and this is magnitudes worse than that.
 

Archer1979

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I've calmed down since last night. While my initial thoughts were, other than that maybe he just doesn't like playing against the Blue Jays, that the only explanation was that Duran saw Verdugo (who really should get some kudos for running his @$$ off on that play) and didn't want to collide with him.

But, holy crap, were the optics bad.

Cora had to have lit into him. Given the night (how hot it was), and the futility coming from the aftermath (down 10-0), not pulling him may have been punishing him. We won't know for sure as Cora plays these things real close to the vest. In a perfect world, Cora tore him a new one in the clubhouse and the veterans on the club did what veterans are supposed to do.

We'll have a greater idea today of the "true" aftermath. It may be something as symbolic as dropping him to 9th in the order or riding the pine a few days. The nuclear option of course is that he's playing for the Portland Sea Dogs or the Pittsburgh Pirates tonight
 

iddoc

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This take seems spot on. Leaving him in such a miserable game to absorb the fans’ derision probably was better punishment than taking him out (and Cora has a much shorter bench than Billy Martin did). As for Cora’s reaction, of course he wasn’t going to thrash him publicly, though he did imply that coaches and other players did so privately (and I’m sure Cora won’t remain silent in private). I don’t think Francona would have said anything much different in the post game, though he may have been wittier.

After some flashes of promise after his promotion this year, Duran has been a disappointment, in all the ways enumerated on this board.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Per the postgame presser, Cora said he did not light into him, that other players including X spoke to Duran about his lack of hustle.

Duran’s excuse for not hustling makes no sense given how long it took Verdugo to reach the ball. His obnoxious statement about losing the ball in the twilight and why don’t you guys try to catch it (which no one cares about, it’s the lack of action afterwards that’s the problem) shows he’s not a team player nor does he understand what it takes to be a major league player.

I really hope he’s benched for the immediate future.
 

Rovin Romine

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The alternative here is that he knew he fucked up, and was not going to beat Verdugo in a sprint to the ball.

I agree it looks bad. He totally should have done the virtue trot to stave off criticism. Maybe with a self-loathing scowl on his face? Or would desperate grimace play better? I dunno. Clearly he chose the wrong emotive body language.

So now this thing will take on a life of its own - has already. It's sort of the perfect psychological scapegoat isn't it? The team's been playing like shit on both halves of the ball, which is both luck and team culture. It's not the first time they've mailed it in when a vacation break was looming (or just finished).

But Duran didn't scramble. His career must be killed. So SOSH says, so let it be done.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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He deserves all the scorn in the world after yesterday, but the "doing his own research" jokes, while timeless, fall a little flat now that he's said he's going to get vaccinated before the next Toronto series. Given how much shit I and others have given him (not that he'll ever read a word of it) for not getting it before the start of the year or in time to play in Toronto last time, he probably deserves a little slack for doing the mature thing and getting it (unless I missed something and he changed his mind, in which case have it it).
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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The alternative here is that he knew he fucked up, and was not going to beat Verdugo in a sprint to the ball.

I agree it looks bad. He totally should have done the virtue trot to stave off criticism. Maybe with a self-loathing scowl on his face? Or would desperate grimace play better? I dunno. Clearly he chose the wrong emotive body language.

So now this thing will take on a life of its own - has already. It's sort of the perfect psychological scapegoat isn't it? The team's been playing like shit on both halves of the ball, which is both luck and team culture. It's not the first time they've mailed it in when a vacation break was looming (or just finished).

But Duran didn't scramble. His career must be killed. So SOSH says, so let it be done.
Given that it took six seconds for Verdugo to reach the ball once it landed, there was a good chance Duran would have gotten to it first had he run after the ball.

This isn’t about virtue scolding. This is about very basic professional effort.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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Smiling Joe Hesketh

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He deserves all the scorn in the world after yesterday, but the "doing his own research" jokes, while timeless, fall a little flat now that he's said he's going to get vaccinated before the next Toronto series. Given how much shit I and others have given him (not that he'll ever read a word of it) for not getting it before the start of the year or in time to play in Toronto last time, he probably deserves a little slack for doing the mature thing and getting it (unless I missed something and he changed his mind, in which case have it it).
Counterpoint: last night they were hilarious.

He’ll get the benefit of the doubt once he plays in Toronto. Not before.
 

leetinsley38

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Per the postgame presser, Cora said he did not light into him, that other players including X spoke to Duran about his lack of hustle.
This is what Duran said about talking to teammates about the play:
When asked about the conversations he had with teammates or coaches after that inning, Duran responded: "Didn't really talk to anybody.''
They usually reasonable McAdam wrapped it up nicely:
So Duran essentially denied he did anything wrong, contradicted his manager when it came to conversations about accountability, and in a bit of time-honored passive-aggressiveness, suggested reporters weren't equipped to understand what he had gone through.
Shaugnessy, sports radio and the like are not going to be so kind. We’ve seen this movie before - this will not go away or end well. And for good reason this time.
 

YTF

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Exactly. He gave up on the play and did nothing. He didn’t even try to go get it. He’s the CFer, he is ostensibly in charge out there and he’s got to go after it.

Losing the ball isn’t the issue. Not moving at all afterwards is. SIX SECONDS before Verdugo touched the ball.
This post 100%. Quite often I'm critical of your criticisms here. Actually it usually the delivery rather than the message. That said I'm in total agreement with you and many others here on this particular matter. As they say, a picture (or in this case a video) is worth a 1,000 words. There was a complete surrender on Duran's part AFTER the misplay. I get that different managers handle different players in different ways, but IMO given the team's recent play and considering the limitations that this roster presents this was a lost opportunity for Cora to make a statement to not only Duran, but the team, the organization and the fans (less so the fans) that this lack of desire can not and will not be tolerated. Duran should have been yanked from the game. Sometimes an example needs to be made, but there are certain players who most managers might consider exempt from being made example of. Duran is not one of those guys. IMO Duran surrendered that play and Cora surrendered the opportunity send a message. My initial thought was that he should be sent down immediately, but I refuse to believe that the season is lost until its lost. Because there really isn't a better option in WooStah I think he should ride the pine for a while. Start JBJ in CF and RFsnyder and Cordero in RF until another/better solution is found and then send Duran back to the minors.
 

YTF

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The Toronto broadcast

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojr-_L3IHc4


Once upon a time managers reacted to a lack of hustle

View: https://youtu.be/cw8ySODBnhU?t=54


I'm sorry Cora should have pulled him immediately.

Being snarky after the game just made it worse.

View: https://twitter.com/IanSteeleABC6/status/1550695143778435072
Next time I'll make a half assed effort. Someone needs to pull this kid aside and explain how these types of questions should be answered.
 

Rovin Romine

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He deserves all the scorn in the world after yesterday,
Why? He lost the ball and signaled that. It's an error maybe.

Given that it took six seconds for Verdugo to reach the ball once it landed, there was a good chance Duran would have gotten to it first had he run after the ball.

This isn’t about virtue scolding. This is about very basic professional effort.
Six whole seconds. Wow. So like he saw Verdugo running, saw the ball, and should have sprinted even if he knew Verdugo (who had both a better angle and a better arm) was going to get there first, or so close in time they'd be occupying the same space during the catch/turn/rise/throw sequence.

To preemptively stave off the next bit, I'll point out that this is filmed through a telephoto lens. You may want to consider how those work.


And with that, I'll be leaving the thread.

Please all - enjoy the crucifixion re: a questionable play in a baseball game.
 

YTF

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He deserves all the scorn in the world after yesterday, but the "doing his own research" jokes, while timeless, fall a little flat now that he's said he's going to get vaccinated before the next Toronto series. Given how much shit I and others have given him (not that he'll ever read a word of it) for not getting it before the start of the year or in time to play in Toronto last time, he probably deserves a little slack for doing the mature thing and getting it (unless I missed something and he changed his mind, in which case have it it).
WTF? Dude why bring this up?
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Why? He lost the ball and signaled that. It's an error maybe.



Six whole seconds. Wow. So like he saw Verdugo running, saw the ball, and should have sprinted even if he knew Verdugo (who had both a better angle and a better arm) was going to get there first, or so close in time they'd be occupying the same space during the catch/turn/rise/throw sequence.

To preemptively stave off the next bit, I'll point out that this is filmed through a telephoto lens. You may want to consider how those work.


And with that, I'll be leaving the thread.

Please all - enjoy the crucifixion re: a questionable play in a baseball game.
Six seconds is an absolute eternity in nearly all professional sports. A professional athlete doing nothing during a play lasting that long is unprecedented.

Duran gave up on the play. He didn’t even move out of Verdugo’s throwing lane if he was thinking the way he claimed. He then gave a ridiculously passive-aggressive answer about his lack of hustle in the postgame interviews.

It’s bad optics, but more importantly it’s bad professional baseball. And his jackass answers about the play show he thinks he did nothing wrong, which is the biggest problem of all.
 

mauf

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The alternative here is that he knew he fucked up, and was not going to beat Verdugo in a sprint to the ball.

I agree it looks bad. He totally should have done the virtue trot to stave off criticism. Maybe with a self-loathing scowl on his face? Or would desperate grimace play better? I dunno. Clearly he chose the wrong emotive body language.

So now this thing will take on a life of its own - has already. It's sort of the perfect psychological scapegoat isn't it? The team's been playing like shit on both halves of the ball, which is both luck and team culture. It's not the first time they've mailed it in when a vacation break was looming (or just finished).

But Duran didn't scramble. His career must be killed. So SOSH says, so let it be done.
I went to bed (prior to the game’s end) undecided. It looked bad, but the camera angle did make it look like Duran was closer to the ball than he was, and of course you couldn’t see how far away Verdugo was or how fast he was closing.

But Cora’s postgame remarks sealed it for me. The dugout had a good view of the play, and clearly he and at least some of the players felt Duran’s lack of effort was unacceptable.
 

JOBU

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View: https://twitter.com/boston_diehards/status/1550643776024109057?s=21&t=CEgyOrmFFrFPi2fq2s4X0Q


The ball hits the ground 10 seconds into this clip. Verdugo gets to the ball (from LF) SIX SECONDS LATER. Six seconds where Duran stood and did nothing.

That’s absolutely unbelievable.
Really embarrassing effort. I kept watching all the way through because I found it mildly fascinating to witness the level of suck they achieved. I kept asking myself “how much worse could it get???” And the answer was “yes.” Good thing yesterday wasn’t free pretzel day.
 

JOBU

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I would prefer…Duran…No Mas Excuses.
At the very least we have a good euphemism (if that’s the right word?) for when a player half asses an effort.

“He really duran’d that ball out there”
“(Insert player) went full Duran there”
 

Granite Sox

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Hopefully this is positioned with him as Strike Two on his Red Sox career (S1 = lack of availability in Toronto), if it hasn’t already sealed his ticket out of town…
 

snowmanny

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A larger problem than the lack of effort is that he is playing at all. I wish players would give their all for the minute or so each night that they are required to run, but they don’t and never have and never will. It’s not as if Tapia bolted out of the batters box. If he had it would have been at least a five-bagger.

But, yeah, Duran is not a serious example of a starting player and yet he’s starting a lot and that’s the real problem.
 

Archer1979

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Why? He lost the ball and signaled that. It's an error maybe.



Six whole seconds. Wow. So like he saw Verdugo running, saw the ball, and should have sprinted even if he knew Verdugo (who had both a better angle and a better arm) was going to get there first, or so close in time they'd be occupying the same space during the catch/turn/rise/throw sequence.

To preemptively stave off the next bit, I'll point out that this is filmed through a telephoto lens. You may want to consider how those work.


And with that, I'll be leaving the thread.

Please all - enjoy the crucifixion re: a questionable play in a baseball game.
Context is king in this though. That play turned a 6 - 0 game into a 10 - 0 laugher after two games against NY that also had lopsided scores. It was also the play of the game in one of the worst @$$ whoopings that this team has ever been on the receiving end of. Just standing there is the indelible image of this game and seems indicative of the lackluster play we've all watched.

I think everyone has prefaced this by conceding that he lost the ball in the lights and that it happens. I've conceded that he most likely saw Verdugo running after it, but have you ever seen a ML outfielder just give up like that?

I'm a little more laid back than some, so my tack on this is bench him for the rest of the series and let him earn his way back to being a starter. It's not like he has the talent to single-handedly turn this around so benching him isn't really going to hurt this team one way or another. But if there is any way to have him come back from this for the sake of his career, he needs to learn some humility.
 

YTF

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Duran: Shut up and (mis)play the hits.
Try not to lose it
Try not to lose it
Tryyyyyyyyyyyyyyy not to lose it
Don't stand there and say screw it

The lack of reflex is a lonely child he's standing 'round the park
The lack of reflex was in charge of fielding center with some spark
And watching Jarren watching 'Dugie was pretty damn bizarre
Every little thing the reflex wasn't
Has left us all with question marks
 

BoSox Rule

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Even Manny would’ve ran after that ball, and he’d be hitting .315/.410/.620 at the time. I’ve pretty forgiving when it comes to “hustling” plays but he legit quit on the play and then acted like a total asshole after the game.
 

mikeford

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He deserves all the scorn in the world after yesterday, but the "doing his own research" jokes, while timeless, fall a little flat now that he's said he's going to get vaccinated before the next Toronto series. Given how much shit I and others have given him (not that he'll ever read a word of it) for not getting it before the start of the year or in time to play in Toronto last time, he probably deserves a little slack for doing the mature thing and getting it (unless I missed something and he changed his mind, in which case have it it).
Pretty big assumption on his part he'll still be on a major league roster the next time we roll into Canada (very end of September/beginning of October)
 

sonofgodcf

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Just watched this play now, and think Duran deserves all the derision he's getting. Even if he really thought Verdugo would beat him, how was there no urgency turning and breaking towards the ball? I could see pulling up once he realizes he won't get there first, but that's not what happened at all. There was never any effort made to correct his mistake, just a casual turn and walk towards the ball.

Garbage effort, he's not nearly good enough to justify a roster spot if that's how he approaches the game.
 

Max Power

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Pretty big assumption on his part he'll still be on a major league roster the next time we roll into Canada (very end of September/beginning of October)
Maybe he was trying to do the team a favor by choosing not to play in Toronto. It's better than choosing not to play while in center field at Fenway.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Why? He lost the ball and signaled that. It's an error maybe.



Six whole seconds. Wow. So like he saw Verdugo running, saw the ball, and should have sprinted even if he knew Verdugo (who had both a better angle and a better arm) was going to get there first, or so close in time they'd be occupying the same space during the catch/turn/rise/throw sequence.

To preemptively stave off the next bit, I'll point out that this is filmed through a telephoto lens. You may want to consider how those work.


And with that, I'll be leaving the thread.

Please all - enjoy the crucifixion re: a questionable play in a baseball game.
Give me a break with this. When a player is wrong, it’s okay to call him out. Being a contrarian just for contrarian’s sake is a dumb look.

Baseball is a difficult game where failure is the norm. We all understand that and acceptable. What’s unacceptable is a lack of hustle. What Duran pulled last night would get him pulled from a Little League game.

I’m not the “rah-rah, gotta play the game right” but at the same time, you have to hustle. You screw up, you make it better. That’s the bare minimum. Especially for a guy who’s hanging onto his major league roster spot by a thread.

I really don’t know about this team. Every time I think they’ve hit rock bottom, they find a shovel.
 

jon abbey

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Just because I didn’t see this Cora quote before, this is from today’s Athletic piece:

“Two batters before, I was looking up like, (the sky is) getting tough out there,” Cora said. “This is the first time I’ve seen (that kind of twilight) here. … When (Tapia) hit the ball, I saw (Duran’s) reaction and I said to (pitching coach Dave Bush), ‘He didn’t see that ball.’ There’s nothing you can do.”
 

BigSoxFan

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Just because I didn’t see this Cora quote before, this is from today’s Athletic piece:

“Two batters before, I was looking up like, (the sky is) getting tough out there,” Cora said. “This is the first time I’ve seen (that kind of twilight) here. … When (Tapia) hit the ball, I saw (Duran’s) reaction and I said to (pitching coach Dave Bush), ‘He didn’t see that ball.’ There’s nothing you can do.”
Yeah, nobody is killing him for the misplay itself. It’s all for the laissez-faire subsequent reaction. And a little his postgame comments. He’s getting rightfully killed by basically everyone who watches baseball.
 

jon abbey

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Yeah, nobody is killing him for the misplay itself. It’s all for the laissez-faire subsequent reaction. And a little his postgame comments. He’s getting rightfully killed by basically everyone who watches baseball.
Totally agreed.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Shit happens, and you could give Duran the benefit of the doubt here, but given his entire body of work, he comes across as a guy who really doesn’t get it.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Give me a break with this. When a player is wrong, it’s okay to call him out. Being a contrarian just for contrarian’s sake is a dumb look.

Baseball is a difficult game where failure is the norm. We all understand that and acceptable. What’s unacceptable is a lack of hustle. What Duran pulled last night would get him pulled from a Little League game.

I’m not the “rah-rah, gotta play the game right” but at the same time, you have to hustle. You screw up, you make it better. That’s the bare minimum. Especially for a guy who’s hanging onto his major league roster spot by a thread.

I really don’t know about this team. Every time I think they’ve hit rock bottom, they find a shovel.
Please, this board is in persecution mode. The reactions are over the top. 6 seconds! Oh my gosh.

It's scapegoating at it's best. Everyone got over the million mistakes Trot Nixon would make. Just call him a dirt dog. Winning does that.

edit: You have posters literally suggesting to cut him. I mean, come on.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Please, this board is in persecution mode. The reactions are over the top. 6 seconds! Oh my gosh.

It's scapegoating at it's best. Everyone got over the million mistakes Trot Nixon would make. Just call him a dirt dog. Winning does that.
Simple yes or no question, do you think what Duran did last night was wrong?
 

Cesar Crespo

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But I guess lack of hustle is far worse than not even paying attention to the game situation and throwing balls into the crowd.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Nope. Just one answer allowed. And you’re on the same page with just about everyone here.

Thank you for your time.
Nope, because I'm not asking for him to be released or traded away. I am not even close to the same page.

Do you think he deserves to be cut? Yes or no. Only one answer allowed.

And if people don't actually think he should be cut, maybe they should stop game threading on the main board.
 

GreyisGone

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Shit happens, and you could give Duran the benefit of the doubt here, but given his entire body of work, he comes across as a guy who really doesn’t get it.
Exactly. And if you’re not going to get it you at least have to be able to hit or play defense or really anything.
 

BravesField

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Just gonna say this - it's ridiculous that the Sox have a $200 or $220 payroll or whateverthefuck it is and their outfield, starter and bench included, is the worst since at least 1992, but arguably in franchise history. -0.3 war between the 3 starters is the worst since 1936.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/pos.shtml

Duran, if he were ever going to be an actual major league player, would have found his niche this year. He's simply not a major league player.
That's a bit harsh don't you think?

I get people are pissed and want someone to blame and everyone is calling for Duran's head. If Duran catches the ball, we still get our asses kicked. The whole team sucked last night and shit like that happens.

How you can judge who is or is not a MLB player after 2 incomplete seasons and about 225 AB is not reasonable.

I seem to recall Minnesota releasing another MLB player in 2002 after 1500 or so AB during 6 or so seasons with about 1500 AB to his career. Perhaps the Twins did not think he was major league player either.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Nope, because I'm not asking for him to be released or traded away. I am not even close to the same page.

Do you think he deserves to be cut? Yes or no. Only one answer allowed.

And if people don't actually think he should be cut, maybe they should stop game threading on the main board.
Thank you for your time.
 

Hyde Park Factor

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I still recall the lesson I learned in 9th grade when I was playing softball. One of the very first things the coach said to us was, "I don't care if you make errors. Things happen, balls take funny hops, and you can't always make the play. But I won't accept a lack of hustle or a mental mistake. Those are both within your control"

Duran failed at the most basic element of sports. Also, I find his arrogance to be at Kiermaier levele.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Yeah, way to not answer the question because you know I'm right and asking for him to be cut or released is a huge over reaction. But yet you do have time to make some snarky comments while adding nothing of value.

You are a shit poster. But keep doing you.
Thank you for your time.
 

Archer1979

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Kids... There has to be some sort of consequence for Duran for last night's lack of effort. While cutting him might be over the top, I can see why some are that upset. But to do nothing isn't doing Duran any good either. Again, I don't think I've ever seen an outfielder 9U or above give up like that.