James White Out for the Season

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
8,500
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
Really sucks to lose White in general, but I feel like it especially hurts in the eve of the Bucs game. He'd be huge in pass pro and third down and the Bucs are extremely susceptible to the short passing game. Not looking forward to seeing Bolden taking meaningful snaps on third down.
 

Steve Dillard

wishes drew noticed him instead of sweet & sour
SoSH Member
Oct 7, 2003
5,290
That's far better than him breaking his hip. Subluxation is a separation of the joint where the ball doesn't completely pop out of the socket (a dislocation). I remember Paplebon had that with his pitching shoulder his rookie year, and I thought he was done. I don't know for a 32 year old football player, but at least health wise that is a recoverable injury. [/Holiday Express Doctor]
 

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
8,668
Westwood MA
Really sucks to lose White in general, but I feel like it especially hurts in the eve of the Bucs game. He'd be huge in pass pro and third down and the Bucs are extremely susceptible to the short passing game. Not looking forward to seeing Bolden taking meaningful snaps on third down.
Is Stevenson going to see the field again this year or is he stapled to the bench for that fumble in week one?

This is a great example of why the NFL is a war of attrition and you can never have enough good players at a certain position; understood there is a roster limit and you can only keep so many players, so they made a decision to trade Sony, but any scenario where Bolden sees meaningful snaps is not a good scenario.

Ever.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
50,861
New York City
That's far better than him breaking his hip. Subluxation is a separation of the joint where the ball doesn't completely pop out of the socket (a dislocation). I remember Paplebon had that with his pitching shoulder his rookie year, and I thought he was done. I don't know for a 32 year old football player, but at least health wise that is a recoverable injury. [/Holiday Express Doctor]
It's exactly what happened to Ryan Fitzpatrick this year. It is certainly far far better than a break and much better than a dislocation, too.

But he will miss time and this year could be a lost one for him. Depends on if there is other damage when the ball was slightly out of the socket.

As someone who has subluxated (sic?) his shoulder over 30 times in his life, it's something that you can recover from quick (e.g. at 41, it happened one Wednesday and I was still able to do a golf weekend starting Thursday, although I was sore AF) but the joint is also never the same.
 

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
8,668
Westwood MA
It's exactly what happened to Ryan Fitzpatrick this year. It is certainly far far better than a break and much better than a dislocation, too.

But he will miss time and this year could be a lost one for him. Depends on if there is other damage when the ball was slightly out of the socket.

As someone who has subluxated (sic?) his shoulder over 30 times in his life, it's something that you can recover from quick (e.g. at 41, it happened one Wednesday and I was still able to do a golf weekend starting Thursday, although I was sore AF) but the joint is also never the same.
Over 30 times?

God bless you, needless to say that's a awful lot of pain, discomfort and aggravation.

What's the pain level like each time it happens?
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
72,226
Oregon
God bless you, needless to say that's a awful lot of pain, discomfort and aggravation.

What's the pain level like each time it happens?
It's the same as what we feel when reading his posts
 

wiffleballhero

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 28, 2009
3,375
In the simulacrum
I had a little knot in the pit of my stomach watching the replay right after this happened. You could sort of see the load of the contact jam up into his hip. I'm glad it is not worse.
 

cornwalls@6

Less observant than others
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
3,308
from the wilds of western ma
It's exactly what happened to Ryan Fitzpatrick this year. It is certainly far far better than a break and much better than a dislocation, too.

But he will miss time and this year could be a lost one for him. Depends on if there is other damage when the ball was slightly out of the socket.

As someone who has subluxated (sic?) his shoulder over 30 times in his life, it's something that you can recover from quick (e.g. at 41, it happened one Wednesday and I was still able to do a golf weekend starting Thursday, although I was sore AF) but the joint is also never the same.
I'm sorry, but I have to ask: What in gods name are you doing whereby this has happened 30 times? And also, maybe stop doing it?
 

cgori

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 2, 2004
2,972
SF, CA
I'm sorry, but I have to ask: What in gods name are you doing whereby this has happened 30 times? And also, maybe stop doing it?
When I dislocated my knee for the second time in 2-3 years I asked if there were surgical options to deal with it. The ortho doc said something to me along the lines of "we have people who dislocate their knee once a day or a couple times a week - those are the people who are candidates for the surgery." My head exploded right there.
 

kartvelo

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2003
8,862
At home
When I dislocated my knee for the second time in 2-3 years I asked if there were surgical options to deal with it. The ortho doc said something to me along the lines of "we have people who dislocate their knee once a day or a couple times a week - those are the people who are candidates for the surgery." My head exploded right there.
In my 20s I had a friend whose girlfriend's knees were always in danger of dislocating. She once took the chance at one of his softball practices to try batting. She stood in the box, the ball floated in, she swung weakly,... and fell to the ground writhing in agony.
 

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
8,668
Westwood MA
In my 20s I had a friend whose girlfriend's knees were always in danger of dislocating. She once took the chance at one of his softball practices to try batting. She stood in the box, the ball floated in, she swung weakly,... and fell to the ground writhing in agony.
Sounds like a kid who was on my Legion team; his Father was the coach, his knees being in danger of dislocating had nothing to do with it.

Him being terrible at baseball did.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
50,861
New York City
Over 30 times?

God bless you, needless to say that's a awful lot of pain, discomfort and aggravation.

What's the pain level like each time it happens?
It much scarier than painful. The pain comes the next day.

But when the shoulder is out of the socket, even slightly, there is a level of discomfort and vulnerability that I have never felt in my entire life. I have been lucky in that I have always been able to guide it back in. And then when it goes back in, it hurts a lot, too, but really not that much because when it goes back in, the level of relief is off the charts.

I have popped my shoulder swimming, playing softball, playing baseball, playing ice hockey, playing basketball, putting change in a toll booth(long story), playing ball in the water, stretching, moving stuff in my car, and lifting. But it mostly happened when playing sports.

After a while, I had to stop playing, because I just couldn't move my arm back and up without "the fear".
 

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
32,418
Melrose, MA
I have popped my shoulder swimming, playing softball, playing baseball, playing ice hockey, playing basketball, putting change in a toll booth(long story), playing ball in the water, stretching, moving stuff in my car, and lifting. But it mostly happened when playing sports.
Also getting out of a straight jacket on a dare, perhaps?
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
50,861
New York City
Also getting out of a straight jacket on a dare, perhaps?
Riggs is a better man than I. There is no way I could do a single thing when the ball is even partially out of the socket.

It is hard to describe the vulnerability. Time doesn't exist when it is out, there is one thing and one thing only. Getting it back in. Dislocations must be so traumatizing.
 

cornwalls@6

Less observant than others
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
3,308
from the wilds of western ma
It much scarier than painful. The pain comes the next day.

But when the shoulder is out of the socket, even slightly, there is a level of discomfort and vulnerability that I have never felt in my entire life. I have been lucky in that I have always been able to guide it back in. And then when it goes back in, it hurts a lot, too, but really not that much because when it goes back in, the level of relief is off the charts.

I have popped my shoulder swimming, playing softball, playing baseball, playing ice hockey, playing basketball, putting change in a toll booth(long story), playing ball in the water, stretching, moving stuff in my car, and lifting. But it mostly happened when playing sports.

After a while, I had to stop playing, because I just couldn't move my arm back and up without "the fear".
My first response was mostly just a little tongue in cheek about the unreal number of times it has happened. But that sounds terrible, and that it has ended your ability to do the things you enjoy really sucks. Apologies for being flippant about it earlier.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
50,861
New York City
My first response was mostly just a little tongue in cheek about the unreal number of times it has happened. But that sounds terrible, and that it has ended your ability to do the things you enjoy really sucks. Apologies for being flippant about it earlier.
No problem at all. All good. It is a crazy thing, I didn't take it personally.
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
10,940
Yes, what happened to Bo Jackson was far far worse than what happened to White and Fitzy.
I don't know the Bo Jackson details, but in general anytime the hip dislocates or subluxes there is a risk of compromised blood supply to the femoral head and avascular necrosis developing. This was one of the concerns with Tua.

It's not something that happens instantly.... they won't know on a CT scan or MRI that day. But it's something to keep in mind down the line.

Risk is higher with a complete dislocation thats out of the socket for awhile. If this was just a brief subluxation that didn't require a reduction the overall risk of AVN is pretty low.
 

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
8,668
Westwood MA
It much scarier than painful. The pain comes the next day.

But when the shoulder is out of the socket, even slightly, there is a level of discomfort and vulnerability that I have never felt in my entire life. I have been lucky in that I have always been able to guide it back in. And then when it goes back in, it hurts a lot, too, but really not that much because when it goes back in, the level of relief is off the charts.

I have popped my shoulder swimming, playing softball, playing baseball, playing ice hockey, playing basketball, putting change in a toll booth(long story), playing ball in the water, stretching, moving stuff in my car, and lifting. But it mostly happened when playing sports.

After a while, I had to stop playing, because I just couldn't move my arm back and up without "the fear".
That sounds awful, sorry to hear you're going through this..........is surgery an option or is it something you'll have to manage the rest of your life?

Have the doctors been able to determine what caused it to happen and also why it keeps happening?
 

DourDoerr

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 15, 2004
2,517
Berkeley, CA
When I dislocated my knee for the second time in 2-3 years I asked if there were surgical options to deal with it. The ortho doc said something to me along the lines of "we have people who dislocate their knee once a day or a couple times a week - those are the people who are candidates for the surgery." My head exploded right there.
Well, I hope this at least qualified for surgery.
 

steveluck7

Member
SoSH Member
May 10, 2007
3,614
Burrillville, RI
When I dislocated my knee for the second time in 2-3 years I asked if there were surgical options to deal with it. The ortho doc said something to me along the lines of "we have people who dislocate their knee once a day or a couple times a week - those are the people who are candidates for the surgery." My head exploded right there.
Sounds about right. I've disclocated my knee (right) 4 times. I mean full dislocation. The first 2 times happened during organized sports and so i was taken by ambulance, knee still out of place, to the hospital where a team of nurses and orderlies held me still while the doc essentially rolled my leg to get the knee back into place.
I was diagnosed with "bad luck" by an orth. Basically, the groove my kneecap sits in is super shallow so it just kinda floats there.
I've also subloxated my left knee too many times to count.
The good news is that through all of this, I havent had any ligament damage. Although, my latest subloxation happened in July and it feel different so i'm worried that i did some damage this time
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
50,861
New York City
That sounds awful, sorry to hear you're going through this..........is surgery an option or is it something you'll have to manage the rest of your life?

Have the doctors been able to determine what caused it to happen and also why it keeps happening?
No worries. Surgery isn't worth it. I've had surgeries and they suck.

And it doesn't hurt and it doesn't pop out if I don't swing my left arm above my head and backwards. It just took years to learn this. This happened mostly in my 20s. Occasionally in my 30s. And only once in my 40s. And not since 2013. (knock, knock)
 

SoxinSeattle

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 6, 2003
2,004
Here
That sounds awful, sorry to hear you're going through this..........is surgery an option or is it something you'll have to manage the rest of your life?

Have the doctors been able to determine what caused it to happen and also why it keeps happening?
"A Bankart Repair is a procedure to prevent recurring anterior shoulder dislocations due to instability in the back (anterior) of the shoulder. A Bankart injury occurs when an initial shoulder dislocation damages the anterior glenoid labrum of the shoulder joint."

I had this surgery 25 years ago and no more dislocations. I originally injured it playing football.
 

mjs

lurker
Mar 30, 2020
8
I don't know the Bo Jackson details, but in general anytime the hip dislocates or subluxes there is a risk of compromised blood supply to the femoral head and avascular necrosis developing. This was one of the concerns with Tua.

It's not something that happens instantly.... they won't know on a CT scan or MRI that day. But it's something to keep in mind down the line.

Risk is higher with a complete dislocation thats out of the socket for awhile. If this was just a brief subluxation that didn't require a reduction the overall risk of AVN is pretty low.
Also, not all joints are the same. A normal hip joint is inherently a lot more stable than shoulder, with a much deeper socket and more stabilizing muscles and capsule. So a hip dislocation/subluxation generally is a more traumatic injury (ie, takes more energy to create and can cause more damage to surrounding tissues) than a shoulder or patella dislocation/subluxation.
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

Aaron Burr
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Nov 1, 2005
4,087
OR 12
Yes, what happened to Bo Jackson was far far worse than what happened to White and Fitzy.
What happened to Bo is exactly what happened to White and Fitzpatrick, it’;s just that he developed AVN and needed a hip replacement, but they haven’t.

Yet…
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
10,940
It's a bad high energy injury for sure, and no doubt puts him at risk for AVN. Even without AVN it could be career threatening as there are often fractures involved and there is a risk to develop arthritis.

Overall the AVN risk is probably pretty low. Certainly still possible, but if it went back into place right away probably 10% or less risk (to throw out a ballpark number). It's not like the majority of these cases end up with AVN.
 

McBride11

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
17,233
Charleston, SC
What happened to Bo is exactly what happened to White and Fitzpatrick, it’;s just that he developed AVN and needed a hip replacement, but they haven’t.

Yet…
I dunno man, you should read that Chris Geary guys twitter...

To you and @radsoxfan, how long post injury does one expect AVN to develop? Or is it variable?

Had this nsgy co resident that had some congenital issue and b/l avn requiring hip replacements in his 30s. Weird stuff
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
10,940
I dunno man, you should read that Chris Geary guys twitter...

To you and @radsoxfan, how long post injury does one expect AVN to develop? Or is it variable?

Had this nsgy co resident that had some congenital issue and b/l avn requiring hip replacements in his 30s. Weird stuff
I've seen numbers quoted online that it can take up to a couple of years but the ones I have seen develop AVN have been in the first 3-6 months. Anecdotally, typically they are car crashes with persistent dislocations that weren't put back in place for many hours. Bo Jackson I believe popped back in place quickly and he still want on to rapid AVN so it's variable.

And yeah, if non-traumatic sometimes the sickle cell patients, Gaucher's, other weird stuff can end up with bilateral hip replacements in their 20's if they collapse and get severe arthritis.

Painful stuff, and those patients often not confined to the hips... similar stuff going on in the knee, shoulder, etc too.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
13,245
I do recall LeGarrette Blount had a season ending hip injury one year, and he was back the following season. The nature of his injury was never disclosed, however.

Can't say I'm surprised White is lost for the season, and it may be just as well. More time to heal without having to train to get back on the field later this season can be beneficial long term.
 

Soxy

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2008
5,973
Absolutely gutted for James White. After what happened to him last season, this just seems extra cruel.

Stevenson has to get a second chance now, yes? I don't really see any other option, unless they make a roster move to add another RB. I get why they turned to Bolden on the fly last week, but he cannot possibly be the plan moving forward to take those snaps.

Probably going to be a committee of sorts, but Stevenson needs to be part of that solution, or what the hell is he even doing on the roster? They can't just scratch him every week because of two bad snaps. Certainly not now.
 

axx

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
7,216
Is Stevenson going to see the field again this year or is he stapled to the bench for that fumble in week one?
I think the only reason he wasn't cut and dumped on the practice squad was in case someone got hurt. Which has now happened. You might see him again at some point.