It's too bad we don't have a Packers thread

j44thor

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This article about the Rodgers / McCarthy feud is something else.
I'd call it a hit piece on both but there are ample on the record quotes to back up a decent amount of it.

WHAT HAPPENED IN GREEN BAY
A checked-out coach. A tuned-out QB. A soap opera where there should have been a dynasty. And those who saw the Aaron Rodgers-Mike McCarthy wreckage up close say we didn't know the half of it.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2828649-what-happened-in-green-bay
 

johnmd20

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That's a hell of a read. This could be in the "Celebrating What Is" thread. Holy shit.
Really, reading that made me cringe. It's brutal and both McCarthy and Rodgers come off horrendously. I'm sure a lot of teams have some strife and dysfunction, but this stuff was next level. And there are a lot of quotes on the record in this one, so this isn't a "sources say" piece of crap that someone like Seth Wickersham writes.

Still, they did write this in a way that makes both Rodgers and McCarthy look absolutely awful. They played that up, hard.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Reading this now and I had a bunch of quotes copied into here but deleted them all. I agree Rodgers is probably the most talented QB he's also not the best QB of all time. This article basically sums up how the Packers ended up being a middle of the pack team over the years but still had an all-time great talent (not all-time great QB) and never achieved their potential.

The Wickesham article is easy reading after this.
 

Marciano490

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"Mike has a low football IQ, and that used to always bother Aaron," this source says. "He'd say Mike has one of the lowest IQs, if not the lowest IQ, of any coach he's ever had."

Sounds familiar.
 

reggiecleveland

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ouch
This is the same quarterback who scolded him for daring to speak to Brett Favre when Favre was a Viking. Jennings still remembers an incensed Rodgers saying to him after that 2009 game, "Why do you have to do that?" as if he were accusing Jennings of picking sides.

"I can't have a relationship with him because you have a problem with him?" Jennings says. "That's petty! That's not who I am."

So there was Jennings, a Viking himself in 2013. He could tell Packers receivers were scared just to say hello with Rodgers likely hyperanalyzing their every move from afar. To him, that's sad. It shouldn't be like this. He sees the relationship Brady has cultivated with Julian Edelman, with all of his receivers, and says, "Everyone wants that." Those two spend time together off the field, and it carries into what matters on the field. Brady builds bonds for life, and that can be the difference between division titles and Super Bowls.

Between Brady's legacy and Rodgers' legacy.
 

BaseballJones

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Wow I read that and come away even more impressed with both Brady and Belichick. In virtually every conceivable way.
 

reggiecleveland

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This what happens top most flavors of he year. The strategy that wins doesn't work with new personal, the league adjust, it grows stale. GB stayed with the same mix too long.
 

joe dokes

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Greg Jennings has made a media career being the guy who bashes Aaron Rodgers. I'd take what he says with a grain of salt.

Mina Kimes' profile from 2017 is a better read into what makes Rodgers tick.

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/enterpriseRodgers/green-bay-packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-unmasked-searching

Hard to be sure from quotes, but Grant came off as thoughtful. His AI analogy was pretty good. As Brady has evolved, BB (and McD) have always tried to remain a step ahead of him, or, at a minimum, to make sure the offense isn't a step behind where he is. And to Brady's credit, if a "step ahead," means throwing less, he's not going to audible out of the run just because.
 
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CantKeepmedown

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The part about Rodgers improvising all the time and his receivers not knowing what routes to run is crazy. He'll freeze you out if you don't do what he tells you to, and then they get yelled at by position coaches for not running the route that was called. What an absolute disaster.
 

dcmissle

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Nobody wins these pissing contests; QB and HC will rue someday that they played and ran their mouths to friends and acquaintances.

Have had conflicted feelings about Rodgers. Felt bad for him on draft night. Admired how he bided his time waiting for Favre era to end. Thought nitpicking of him was overdone. Family stuff is family stuff, and unless you are in the family, you don’t know.

But if the article is credited, he comes off poorly. The McCarthy grudge is particularly ridiculous and counter-productive. Get over it — you were in that green room a looong time Aaron; it wasn’t just the 49ers who passed.

It’s really surprising McCarthy lasted as long as he did. Green Bay must not kowtow to its HOF QBs. If it did, we wouldn’t be reading this story: Favre would have had Rodgers’ ass shipped out of town a long, long time ago.
 

bakahump

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A big takeaway I had is the pitfalls of hitching your Franchise to the wrong guy (though obviously it would be hard to argue that Rodgers is "wrong" from a football perspective).
You can hitch it to a guy who gets hurt and crushes your franchise (RG3), You can hitch it to a guy whose talent never develops (or was) (Ryan Leaf), You can hitch your franchise to a guy who has the talent and the "Durability" (somewhat) but ends up (seemingly) having Narcissistic personality disorder (Rodgers). Or you can hitch it to someone who might be a little "flakey" (Brady).

The whole "you give a guy 200 Million and what do you expect". But what COULD the Packers do? Say "Yea I know he is immensely talented, but we cant let a guy go rogue and think he runs the organization".
In effect as the QB making 200 Million (or 180) he DOES run the organization.

You have to hope you just have a decent, durable, Talented guy and hope for the best and I guess we can see what a rare combo that really is.
 

tims4wins

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A big takeaway I had is the pitfalls of hitching your Franchise to the wrong guy (though obviously it would be hard to argue that Rodgers is "wrong" from a football perspective).
You can hitch it to a guy who gets hurt and crushes your franchise (RG3), You can hitch it to a guy whose talent never develops (or was) (Ryan Leaf), You can hitch your franchise to a guy who has the talent and the "Durability" (somewhat) but ends up (seemingly) having Narcissistic personality disorder (Rodgers). Or you can hitch it to someone who might be a little "flakey" (Brady).

The whole "you give a guy 200 Million and what do you expect". But what COULD the Packers do? Say "Yea I know he is immensely talented, but we cant let a guy go rogue and think he runs the organization".
In effect as the QB making 200 Million (or 180) he DOES run the organization.

You have to hope you just have a decent, durable, Talented guy and hope for the best and I guess we can see what a rare combo that really is.
This and the Steelers situation reinforce how lucky we are... and while there may have been some kernels of truth in the Wickersham article, it was clearly overblown compared to the Packers and Steelers QBs.
 

snowmanny

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This and the Steelers situation reinforce how lucky we are... and while there may have been some kernels of truth in the Wickersham article, it was clearly overblown compared to the Packers and Steelers QBs.
Yeah yesterday Colin Cowherd was saying "Rodgers isn't Brady. He's Big Ben." I have to say, I am more and more convinced that despite his own personal agendas the second best QB of all-time (or at least post-1990) is pretty clearly Peyton.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Yeah yesterday Colin Cowherd was saying "Rodgers isn't Brady. He's Big Ben." I have to say, I am more and more convinced that despite his own personal agendas the second best QB of all-time (or at least post-1990) is pretty clearly Peyton.
How was that even up for debate at least for the bolded?
 

snowmanny

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PP, I have no idea why people debate things that I’ve already figured out but they do.
 

BaseballJones

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It's actually an interesting conversation to see who's the 2nd greatest of all time behind Brady. The legit candidates (let's at least stick to the Super Bowl era....we don't need any Sid Luckman talk) are:

Peyton Manning - huge numbers, five MVPs, two SB titles
Drew Brees - huge numbers, will retire with tons of records, one SB title
Brett Favre - one SB title, MVPs, big career numbers
Joe Montana - four SB titles, elite SB record
Aaron Rodgers - huge rate stats, one SB title, MVPs
John Elway - two SB titles, MVP
Terry Bradshaw - four SB titles

That's probably the short list. Marino maybe, but zero titles makes it harder.
 

BigSoxFan

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If Montana was the consensus #1 before Malcolm Butler, then he should be consensus #2, no?
 

snowmanny

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If Montana was the consensus #1 before Malcolm Butler, then he should be consensus #2, no?
I don’t think Montana was the consensus #1 as of 2000. Maybe plurality. My impression was that the Montana as #1 “consensus” grew as a response to Brady #1 arguments.
 

tims4wins

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Brees isn't in contention IMO, nor is Favre (along with Bradshaw). Rodgers isn't either at the moment.

#2 all time, to me, is a race between Elway, Montana, and Peyton.

Personally I think I'd rank them Peyton, Montana, Elway for 2-4 all time, but YMMV.
 

E5 Yaz

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It's actually an interesting conversation to see who's the 2nd greatest of all time behind Brady. The legit candidates (let's at least stick to the Super Bowl era....we don't need any Sid Luckman talk) are.
You can see where your premise is faulty from the get-go
 

BigSoxFan

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I don’t think Montana was the consensus #1 as of 2000. Maybe plurality. My impression was that the Montana as #1 “consensus” grew as a response to Brady #1 arguments.
Really? I think most viewed Montana as the GOAT, especially before Elway won his 2 late SBs.
 

Reverend

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I don’t think Montana was the consensus #1 as of 2000. Maybe plurality. My impression was that the Montana as #1 “consensus” grew as a response to Brady #1 arguments.
There used to be a knock against Montana for being a "game manager". The success of the Patriots under Brady as a game manager de-stigmatized the appellation. Now people realize they just didn't understand the position.
 

Kliq

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I think Elway is overrated. He led the league in passing yards once, and never led the league in any other major passing category throughout his career. He was a really good QB for a long time, but his two SB wins were loaded teams with an awesome running attack His post-season record is pretty good but his stats are just okay.

Yes Brees played in a much more pass-friendly era and also indoors, but his stats relative to his contemporaries blow away Elway compared to his contemporaries. He's led the league in passing yards 7x, completion percentage 5x, TDs 4x, and quarterback rating twice. In his age 39 season, he threw for 4,000 yards, completed 75 percent of his passes, and threw 32 TDs to 5 Ints. Yeah it is a passing league and yes he plays in a dome, but that is just a pure filthy season. Elway has had more post-season success, but Brees has better stats, even if you give Elway some slack for playing in a more difficult era.

Brees has also done it with probably the worst supporting cast out of the guys in the conversation. His best offensive players in New Orleans have been Marques Colston, Deuce McAllister, Michael Thomas, Alvin Kamara and Jimmy Graham. Not a lot of guys who have had a ton of success when QBs not named Drew Brees were throwing them the ball.
 

dcmissle

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Elway carried his teams, which for years had the legendary Sammy Winder as his primary running threat. He was incredible and should easily be in the non-Brady GOAT conversation.
Not to mention an overrated defense. Some of those teams belonged nowhere close to a SB.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I think Elway is overrated. He led the league in passing yards once, and never led the league in any other major passing category throughout his career. He was a really good QB for a long time, but his two SB wins were loaded teams with an awesome running attack His post-season record is pretty good but his stats are just okay.

Yes Brees played in a much more pass-friendly era and also indoors, but his stats relative to his contemporaries blow away Elway compared to his contemporaries. He's led the league in passing yards 7x, completion percentage 5x, TDs 4x, and quarterback rating twice. In his age 39 season, he threw for 4,000 yards, completed 75 percent of his passes, and threw 32 TDs to 5 Ints. Yeah it is a passing league and yes he plays in a dome, but that is just a pure filthy season. Elway has had more post-season success, but Brees has better stats, even if you give Elway some slack for playing in a more difficult era.

Brees has also done it with probably the worst supporting cast out of the guys in the conversation. His best offensive players in New Orleans have been Marques Colston, Deuce McAllister, Michael Thomas, Alvin Kamara and Jimmy Graham. Not a lot of guys who have had a ton of success when QBs not named Drew Brees were throwing them the ball.
Meh...the three teams he took to the SB before Terrell Davis showed up were basically hanging off his boot straps. He elevated his team and looking at passing stats is wonky, given the era. He could run as well. I think he fits solidly in the 4-7 range. 9 Pro Bowls, an MVP, 2 Rings and 3 other SBs. Stuff like completion % and ypg are skewed now. Instead of league leading look at top 5; because he's there.
 

snowmanny

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There used to be a knock against Montana for being a "game manager". The success of the Patriots under Brady as a game manager de-stigmatized the appellation. Now people realize they just didn't understand the position.
I think that's right. The game manager criticism intensified when Steve Young came in and his peak looked at least as good as Montana's in the same system.

There is no denying Montana's greatness in Super Bowls. At the end of his career though there was still Unitas sentiment, there was Marino sentiment, there was maybe a bit of Staubach sentiment, there was a feeling that Elway was much more talented but didn't have the full team like Montana. Following that there was Aikman (nobody said he was necessarily better, but he seemed pretty similar to Joe success-wise), there was talk of Favre being the best, these was talk of Manning being the best. And of course there was a lot of wishing Rodgers was the best. The problem with all the other Super Bowl-era QBs besides Montana is that eventually there was no argument for them against Brady, and lots of people wanted an argument. Montana at least for awhile had the edge in Super Bowls, or at least Super Bowls plus a college title, and still is one of only two QBs to be 4-0 in SBs and had the first great game-winning drive in a Super Bowl for his next-to-last title and (I think) the best QB playoff run in history for his last title, so people remembered those.
 

DJnVa

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The two made the playoffs together eight years in a row. But this should've been a Patriots-like reign. History. One former teammate says he thinks Rodgers should have won a minimum of six Super Bowl rings under McCarthy and that the 2011 team should be remembered like the '72 Dolphins.
Okay dude.