It is TIME! 2025 NFL Coaching Carousel
- Thread starter luckiestman
- Start date
Wow, wow, you’re telling me for the first time. Schrager has led an amazing life.
Apologies. I think I had the thread opened from earlier in the day and the note that there were new posts came and went without me seeing it. Funny that we listened to the Simmons pod around the same time. Very sorry about that.
Haha, no apologies needed. I was like, this guy must have me in ignore. But then I was wondering, how the hell is he seeing the thread if I’m on ignore. ?
If by some act of God Kyle we’re out in SF, I would hope Kraft called him within 0.02 seconds and offered him everything.
not a shot mayo is your guy for at least 3 years if kyle is out he goes to chiago or jax
Things getting dicey in NYC for Brian D. Seems less safe this week.
I’m starting to talk myself into Flores for the Jesters. I don’t know that Vrabel would come here and I don’t necessarily know if Vrabel is better than Flores anyway. Rex with good coordinators would be really funny.
I’d like a great offensive guy but tough to know if these OCs can HC.
I’m starting to talk myself into Flores for the Jesters. I don’t know that Vrabel would come here and I don’t necessarily know if Vrabel is better than Flores anyway. Rex with good coordinators would be really funny.
I’d like a great offensive guy but tough to know if these OCs can HC.
I was thinking Daboll might be a good Assistant HC to Mayo next season if he gets canned. Can oversee AVP and Maye, allows Mayo to get work more closely with the defense if necessary, and knows the Pats. You get continuity for Maye but also some fresh eyes, veteran coaching presence and a guy who helped get Allen to take the next step.
Daboll gets a lot of credit for Allen...I wonder sometimes if it's deserved. Could be that Allen is just an amazing player that makes coaches look good. I have no idea, but it's at least worth scrutinizing. I see the logic in a move like this, as long as it works for AVP, who seems to have at least earned another year. I doubt Daboll would take it though. He could go back to Buffalo, or sit and wait for another HC opportunity. And I actually think his reputation from Allen earns him a chance with a rookie QB with the NYG.
Boy, Daboll is getting a lot of mileage on the back of Josh Allen. The Giants have been a chaotic shit show under him. No idea why he’d get a pass.
edit: post above me says it better than I could. Daboll has been an awful head coach. That matters a lot more than wondering from the outside how much credit he gets — or not — for Josh Allen.
edit: post above me says it better than I could. Daboll has been an awful head coach. That matters a lot more than wondering from the outside how much credit he gets — or not — for Josh Allen.
I’ve liked Daboll since he worked for the Jets under Mangini.
Favre getting hurt really screwed us. That staff had Bill Callahan, Daboll, Dan Quinn, Westhoff
OC/DC just ok with Schotty and Sutton.
Favre getting hurt really screwed us. That staff had Bill Callahan, Daboll, Dan Quinn, Westhoff
OC/DC just ok with Schotty and Sutton.
He also led the Giants, who have been the worst team in the sport otherwise the last eight years, to a playoff win with Daniel Jones. Unfortunately, that put them in QB hell they haven't been able to get out of. Maybe he is a disaster and just rode Allen's coattails, but he absolutely has some accomplishments as a head coach.
That's a very, very generous read. So Daboll gets credit for Josh Allen and one winning spurt by the Giants and we ignore the rest?
Here's an alternative take.
1: Josh Allen could have developed under any number of OCs.
2: Jones was a bad pick and his failure to develop is no more on Daboll than his spurt of success during one playoff run is on Daboll. It does, however, show that he's not some sort of magic QB whisperer. The difference between Allen and Jones is on those 2 QBs, not Daboll.
2: The Giants 17-27-1 record is far more indicative of Daboll as a HC than one winning spurt. He works for a stable organization that supports its FO and coach -- i.e, he doesn't coach for the Jets -- and has had free reign. The results have been awful.
Occam's Razor is that Daboll's doesn't deserve a generous read of his record. He is what his record says he is.
Here's an alternative take.
1: Josh Allen could have developed under any number of OCs.
2: Jones was a bad pick and his failure to develop is no more on Daboll than his spurt of success during one playoff run is on Daboll. It does, however, show that he's not some sort of magic QB whisperer. The difference between Allen and Jones is on those 2 QBs, not Daboll.
2: The Giants 17-27-1 record is far more indicative of Daboll as a HC than one winning spurt. He works for a stable organization that supports its FO and coach -- i.e, he doesn't coach for the Jets -- and has had free reign. The results have been awful.
Occam's Razor is that Daboll's doesn't deserve a generous read of his record. He is what his record says he is.
Am I misunderstanding something here? People are saying Daboll is a desirable OC and the evidence against that is that he is a losing HC. I’m not following. When Bowles had a losing record with the Jets no one thought he couldn’t go back to being a desirable DC.
Brian Schottenheimer is a bad OC. When Shane Waldron improves your offense, you are a bad OC.
We’re are talking about a decade in between when he started with Jets and then went to Seattle. He wasn’t bad when Mangini first went to the Jets with Pennington. A ton of motion, guys schemed wide open. I think he still gets jobs based on his early success. I’m not disagreeing with your current opinion of him.
Said stable organization had one playoff appearance in the 10 years between Super Bowl 46 and his arrival and was blown off the field. Does he deserve credit for Josh Allen? I don't know. Is he a good coach? I don't know - it's tough to tell when you're handicapped with a bust at QB for an organization that's been awful for a decade-plus. Therefore, I find winning a playoff game with said organization and QB to be impressive. Maybe he does suck, but I'd give him a chance to develop an actual QB.
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@luckiestman has bingo. I'm not suggesting that the Pats replace Mayo with Daboll because he's been a great HC. I'm saying he had success as an OC, we have kind of a similar situation in NE that he had in Buffalo (defensive-minded HC, young, big QB with a cannon and wheels) and that he has been in the building. Also: NE knows better than most that successful OC's can wash out as HC (see: McDaniels, Josh).
And yes, it's hard to know how much of the Giants' stink under Daboll is due to him and to organizational dysfunction and Daniel Jones. It's also hard to know how much of his success with Allen starting in year 3 was due to them trading for Diggs.
All that said, I'm simply saying that if the Pats go into the offseason looking for some veteran coordinator experience on staff now that they have Maye in place, Daboll might be an interesting option as AHC along the lines of what Belichick was under Parcells in 1996. That kind of arrangement would allow you to maintain coordinator continuity for Maye but also give you an escape hatch with AVP (or even Mayo) if the offense (or team) doesn't improve in year two.
I don’t know why Daboll would take an “assistant HC” role instead of looking for a full time gig (perhaps in college) or go to a playoff hopeful as an OC with possible AHC title. Seems like a huge step backwards to come to a moribund franchise to be an advisor to Mayo without even having playcalling duties. If they dump McAdoo and AVP, maybe it makes more sense.
I also don’t think Kraft would want to cramp Mayo by giving him an AHC. He knows Mayo can lead the team to glory because of the look in his eye when Mayo was knee deep in a river.
I also don’t think Kraft would want to cramp Mayo by giving him an AHC. He knows Mayo can lead the team to glory because of the look in his eye when Mayo was knee deep in a river.
It’s hard for me to imagine Everflustered isn’t fired today. Seems like the right time to do it.
National television game, longer than normal time between games, players openly questioning what the heck is going on after the game. Seems silly to continue.
So Caleb will be on HC 2 and OC 3 before his second NFL season begins.
Edit: Well it appears interim OC Thomas Brown is now Interim HC. So the guy tasked with getting Caleb Williams on track (so far been good) is now in change of the whole team. This seems ungood.
Edit: Well it appears interim OC Thomas Brown is now Interim HC. So the guy tasked with getting Caleb Williams on track (so far been good) is now in change of the whole team. This seems ungood.
Huh. Not sure if about promoting Brown, means you are shaking up the offense again after a pretty good 3 week stretch. 3rd OC of the year
IIRC, there was so much opinionating that they never should have brought him back for this season.
Yes basically everyone said 'start fresh don't make the same mistakes you have before" but the Bears are horribly run so....
I thought they’d let him skate because the Bears did make the great comeback against one of the top 2-3 NFL teams. Fuckup at the end, yes.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Brown seemingly has Williams and the offense back on track, I'd leave that alone. Name the DC the interim HC, it's a lame duck position. Now Brown's area of responsibility covers the whole team, not the offense.
If you leave Brown as interim OC and things go well with Williams perhaps Brown sticks as OC under the new HC and there's some continuity. Can't imagine Brown is back now as OC.
It was obvious Eberflus was going to be fired but I probably would've kept him for the rest of the season. They have 5 games left and they are 4-8 so it's not a "save the season" type move, their season is over. The only reason to fire him now is to satify the blood thristy fans and media. Doing so only introduces more change and chaos into a team that has already undergone quite a bit of change and chaos.
If you leave Brown as interim OC and things go well with Williams perhaps Brown sticks as OC under the new HC and there's some continuity. Can't imagine Brown is back now as OC.
It was obvious Eberflus was going to be fired but I probably would've kept him for the rest of the season. They have 5 games left and they are 4-8 so it's not a "save the season" type move, their season is over. The only reason to fire him now is to satify the blood thristy fans and media. Doing so only introduces more change and chaos into a team that has already undergone quite a bit of change and chaos.
I think the quotes coming out of the locker room after yesterday's game made the situation unworkable going forward. You're right in regards to the grand scheme of things, but it sure sounds like that a growing number of players were questioning what was going on.
There's a chance they reached their nadir, but there's also a chance that there's still a rock bottom to be found. There's no way leaving this guy at the helm was going to limit any future damage. I think they're going to blow it all up and bring in BB and if that means McD as well then Caleb's situation will have considerably leveled up.
This is my take, too, but I also get Yaz's point that it was probably just untenable in the locker room. But even if they had to make the Special Teams coach the interim guy, I'd have kept Brown focused on his job as OC. Per Ulbrich with the Jets and how his defense went south once he was made HC, I don't see why you'd mess with the meta positive thing happening. Has to be someone else who could have been promoted (granted I have no idea who).
This goes back to the Hail Mary. The lack of discipline on that final play -- from the d-back celebrating to having no one behind the Washington receiver displayed a complete lack of coaching execution.
It started with the Hail Mary. They beat Jacksonville in London to get to 4-2 heading into their bye. Since then:
- Lost to Washington on the Hail Mary where a DB was jawing with fans while the play was unfolding
- Lost to Arizona 29-9. This game included allowing a 53 yard touchdown run with 12 seconds left in the half. Also, believe this was the game that DJ Moore walked off the field mid-play.
- Lost to New England 19-3 in which they allowed 9 sacks. This prompted the firing of the OC.
- Lost to Green Bay 20-19 on a last second FG block. This included having a 1st and 10 at the GB 30 with 35 seconds left and a timeout. Eberflus decided they didn't need to get any closer, ran for 2 yards to run the clock down. Settled for a 46 yarder at the buzzer which was blocked.
- Lost in OT to Minnesota 30-27. Furious rally to send game to OT (included recovering an onside kick).
- Lost to Detroit 23-20. Had a 1st and 10 at the Detroit 25 with 2 timouts. Has to take 1 with the clock stopped to avoid a delay. An illegal use of hands penalty sends them back to the 35 with 43 seconds left setting up the fateful sack and clock running out debacle.
There's also the play before the Hail Mary where they conceded 15 yards to put Daniels in Hail Mary position, and Eberflus had a quote after that it didn't really matter.
In terms of Brown as interim HC, the other way it maybe makes sense is if they want to consider him as the permanent HC. This gives the Bears a trial run to judge him in that capacity. If that's the case, I can sort of get taking him off of his main job.
In terms of Brown as interim HC, the other way it maybe makes sense is if they want to consider him as the permanent HC. This gives the Bears a trial run to judge him in that capacity. If that's the case, I can sort of get taking him off of his main job.
In "defense" of this one... I watched it again and the protection was so bad that being closer wouldn't have made a difference.
I mean sure, if the protection doesn't hold up it doesn't really matter how long the field goal is. The point remains they had plenty of time to get a closer and was happy with a 46-yard field goal. In no way was that good game management. The longer the field goal, the more risk. Particularly outdoors in Chicago. The longer the field goal the lower the trajectory of the kick which makes them easier to block.
Another masterclass I had forgot was the 3rd and goal at the 1 handoff to the backup center in the Washington game. They were up 12-7 with 6:25 left in the game, called a handoff to the backup center who was playing FB. It was predictably fumbled. I guess you can blame that on Waldron but Eberflus absolutely should've veto'd the call.
