Is Alex Cora...

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has big, douchey shoulders
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I was at the home of a player who was on the John Farrell World Series team. This was right after Farrell was fired. I asked him how the Sox could go from WS champs to last place under the same manager. The player told me the Red Sox won the World Series in spite of Farrell. The player was high and I was loaded but that’s how I remember it.
I mean, I guess that's a cool story, but if they also won 3 AL East titles in 5 years in spite of him, then it just reinforces my overall belief that the role of the manager is way overstated, both good and bad.
More likely, it reinforces that players didn't particularly like him and don't like to give any credit to assholes.
Or that you guys were both just out of your minds.
 

ColdSoxPack

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Jul 14, 2005
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I mean, I guess that's a cool story, but if they also won 3 AL East titles in 5 years in spite of him, then it just reinforces my overall belief that the role of the manager is way overstated, both good and bad.
More likely, it reinforces that players didn't particularly like him and don't like to give any credit to assholes.
Or that you guys were both just out of your minds.
I think you are right. But he was way more gone than me. I did sleep on his couch.
 

54thMA

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Tito gets the edge from me right now because he's got two WS titles vs one.

Tito broke the curse, but at the same time, the 2004 team was down 0-3 to the Yankees and 1-3 in 2007 to the Indians.

He also lost the 2008 ALCS and was the manager for that disastrous 2011 season, specifically the meltdown in September that cost him his job.

Cora managed this team to a wire to wire domination in 2018, they never trailed in any post season series, so far this year they took down the Yankees and the 100 win Tampa Bay Devil Rays..............IF he takes down the Astors and let's say the 106 win/are you shitting me with that bag job behind the plate in game 5 Dodgers, to me he passes Tito and is a solid #1.

That's two huge ifs, so we'll see......................
 

Van Everyman

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The Flyin’ Hawaiian had a Bob Marley song as his walk up music. Just sayin’.

Kidding. We all know it was Quintin Berry.
 

CaptainLaddie

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I think until Cora passes Tito's WS title total, you cannot pick Cora over Tito. Once he gets to 2 or more though, I think you have to go Cora. Had the team's best ever season as well and clearly has a big impact on the players he manages.
Tito had the yoke of 86 years hanging on his neck. That can't be discounted. He had to navigate down 0-3 after losing like the Dumbass did as manager the year before. I'm okay with saying that Tito > Cora even at 2-2.
 

tims4wins

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Tito gets the edge from me right now because he's got two WS titles vs one.

Tito broke the curse, but at the same time, the 2004 team was down 0-3 to the Yankees and 1-3 in 2007 to the Indians.

He also lost the 2008 ALCS and was the manager for that disastrous 2011 season, specifically the meltdown in September that cost him his job.

Cora managed this team to a wire to wire domination in 2018, they never trailed in any post season series, so far this year they took down the Yankees and the 100 win Tampa Bay Devil Rays..............IF he takes down the Astors and let's say the 106 win/are you shitting me with that bag job behind the plate in game 5 Dodgers, to me he passes Tito and is a solid #1.

That's two huge ifs, so we'll see......................
Nitpick but the Sox were down 1-0 to Houston in the ALCS. Hopefully history repeats itself.
 

54thMA

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Nitpick but the Sox were down 1-0 to Houston in the ALCS. Hopefully history repeats itself.
Totally winnable game last night, they need to do a better job with RISP, left way too many base runners stranded.

No more of this "house money"; they belong here and can win this series, take game two today and go from there.
 

tims4wins

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Totally winnable game last night, they need to do a better job with RISP, left way too many base runners stranded.

No more of this "house money"; they belong here and can win this series, take game two today and go from there.
I meant in 2018 they were down 1-0... sorry
 

jaytftwofive

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Jan 20, 2013
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His teams also won consecutive division titles, and three total. Not many have done that. He was sort of an old school hard ass, and guys like that have a short shelf life these days, but the accomplishments in his 5 years are actually pretty impressive.
I think Farrell was good to very good, IMO. He made mistakes like all managers. My Dad always thought Yaz got Williams fired because he used to complain to Yawkey about him a lot. My only complaint with Cora(Other then the cheating) is I think he's acting like Joe Madden and using too many pitchers, or kind of over managing
 
Dec 28, 2015
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I think Farrell was good to very good, IMO. He made mistakes like all managers. My Dad always thought Yaz got Williams fired because he used to complain to Yawkey about him a lot. My only complaint with Cora(Other then the cheating) is I think he's acting like Joe Madden and using too many pitchers, or kind of over managing
Like your father I have suspected that Yaz was responsible for Williams' dismissal because of his close relationship with Yawkey. However, it was no secret to Yawkey or most Red Sox fans then that Williams was an angry man and harsh on his players. We forget sometimes that before he became the monument he is today Yaz in the late 60's and early 70's was pilloried by a Boston press that was much more out of control than today and by the new talkers on sports radio. He was, unfairly I think, the target of everyone's frustration then as the Sox were unable to repeat the success of 67.

We will never know, of course, but I no longer believe that Yaz got Williams fired.
 

WenZink

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Apr 23, 2010
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Like your father I have suspected that Yaz was responsible for Williams' dismissal because of his close relationship with Yawkey. However, it was no secret to Yawkey or most Red Sox fans then that Williams was an angry man and harsh on his players. We forget sometimes that before he became the monument he is today Yaz in the late 60's and early 70's was pilloried by a Boston press that was much more out of control than today and by the new talkers on sports radio. He was, unfairly I think, the target of everyone's frustration then as the Sox were unable to repeat the success of 67.

We will never know, of course, but I no longer believe that Yaz got Williams fired.
There weren't many talking heads on radio in the late 60s. "The Sports Huddle" with Andelman, Witkin and McCarthy was a Sunday night show that premiered in the Spring of '69. Guy Maniela had yet to come to WBZ (I think). The only occasional show was "Voice of Sports" moderated by the "very moderate" Don Gillis, although the Herald's Tim Horgan and Jake Liston were regulars and could be outspoken. If I remember correctly, the rumors were that Tony C's father, Sal, had gotten Pesky fired after the '64 season, and that Yaz got Herman fired after the '66 season, but the Sox teams were near the bottom during those years, so Pesky/Herman could have been fired for a lot of reasons. Williams' firing, after '69, was probably a case of his own undoing -- big mouth with abrasive insults and offered up to the media.
 

YTF

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From the start, I’ve believed that Cora and Beltran were a-little-too-conveniently scapegoated (as two guys who didn’t work there anymore) for The Banging Scheme. That might be my bias talking, though, which I will own.
I think Cora was a central figure in all of this and that's on him. I thought that his departure from the Sox was the right thing and to be honest I was very mixed on his coming back to manage the team. That said, the fact Cora, Hinge and Beltran were the only uniformed personnel punished for this and players were given a pass has never set well with me. It was definitely a convenient scapegoating and the player immunity was the league's quickest way to move forward while being able to show that someone was held accountable.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I think Cora was a central figure in all of this and that's on him. I thought that his departure from the Sox was the right thing and to be honest I was very mixed on his coming back to manage the team. That said, the fact Cora, Hinge and Beltran were the only uniformed personnel punished for this and players were given a pass has never set well with me. It was definitely a convenient scapegoating and the player immunity was the league's quickest way to move forward while being able to show that someone was held accountable.
The catch on the bolded is Beltran was not formally punished at all (he was a player, after all). His "punishment" was losing a job he'd barely started in the first place. Makes you wonder though, as I said before, how come he's still on the outside looking in at baseball but Cora and Hinch immediately got jobs once they were eligible?
 

YTF

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The catch on the bolded is Beltran was not formally punished at all (he was a player, after all). His "punishment" was losing a job he'd barely started in the first place. Makes you wonder though, as I said before, how come he's still on the outside looking in at baseball but Cora and Hinch immediately got jobs once they were eligible?
Formally punished or not, he lost his first managerial gig due to this. Cora and Hinch had World Championships on their resumes, they were always going to be back in the game.
 

Harry Hooper

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McAdam on Cora:

Whether it's his calm demeanor or the confidence he exudes, the players take their cue from Cora. He doesn't panic, so neither do they. He doesn't look back and they don't either. A loss is a loss, and there's little to be gained from ruminating. The focus, always, is on the next one.

Whatever Cora preaches, the players are buying. How do we know this? Because over the course of 21 postseason games that Cora has managed dating back to his managerial playoff debut, the Red Sox have never lost two games in a row. Ever.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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There weren't many talking heads on radio in the late 60s. "The Sports Huddle" with Andelman, Witkin and McCarthy was a Sunday night show that premiered in the Spring of '69. Guy Maniela had yet to come to WBZ (I think). The only occasional show was "Voice of Sports" moderated by the "very moderate" Don Gillis, although the Herald's Tim Horgan and Jake Liston were regulars and could be outspoken. If I remember correctly, the rumors were that Tony C's father, Sal, had gotten Pesky fired after the '64 season, and that Yaz got Herman fired after the '66 season, but the Sox teams were near the bottom during those years, so Pesky/Herman could have been fired for a lot of reasons. Williams' firing, after '69, was probably a case of his own undoing -- big mouth with abrasive insults and offered up to the media.
Guy Maniella and Calling All Sports also debuted in 1969
 

jaytftwofive

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Jan 20, 2013
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Like your father I have suspected that Yaz was responsible for Williams' dismissal because of his close relationship with Yawkey. However, it was no secret to Yawkey or most Red Sox fans then that Williams was an angry man and harsh on his players. We forget sometimes that before he became the monument he is today Yaz in the late 60's and early 70's was pilloried by a Boston press that was much more out of control than today and by the new talkers on sports radio. He was, unfairly I think, the target of everyone's frustration then as the Sox were unable to repeat the success of 67.

We will never know, of course, but I no longer believe that Yaz got Williams fired.
And he(Williams) went on to win with the A's, the Expos and the Padres. Won 2 WS with the A's, a pennant with the Padres and before that went to the NLCS with the Expos. Bill Lee said as tough as Williams was he had a key the doghouse and would let you out(Benching etc..) Lee said Zimmer had no key. Once you were in the doghouse that was it. More vindictive.
 
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m0ckduck

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Jul 20, 2005
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I’ll throw this in: Francona’s teams never seemed to outperform their talent level (in my totally subjective evaluation)— the benefit he provided seemed to be primarily bringing harmony and focus to a talented but distractable and egoistic group of players. That, plus pulling the right levers in the playoffs.

Cora reminds me of Jimy Williams— only the good aspects of Jimy, mind you— in his ability to eek out 90 win seasons out of 80 win teams. (Unlike Jimy, he doesn’t conversely manage 90 win teams down to 80 wins when they don’t play the game his way). In that sense, the Simmons comment rang true to me at first blush, although I agree that one can’t factually argue Francona’s track record at this point.