His footwork in the paint on defense wasn't so hot tonight either. Got dummied several times by smaller guards, who drew fouls on him when they had no right to score there.
Irrational exuberance: The Neemias Queta thread
- Thread starter chilidawg
- Start date
who are the best 3rd centers in the league, for that matter?
Running through rosters just in the East real quick, I see competition being guys like:
CLE: JT Thor, 6'10" stretch big on a 2-way
MIA: rookie Kel'el Ware, 7-footer, drafted #15 this year, presumably from Planet Krypton
NYK: Jericho Sims if you count KAT, Ariel Hukporti on a 2-way if you don't, or arguably Precious Achiuwa
CHI: Adama Sanogo, sophomore on a 2-way, behind Vucevic and Jalen Smith
ORL: Goga Bitadze or Wendell Carter Jr, if you count Mo Wagner as a C. They've played Carter a lot more than Goga thus far this year.
BRK: Noah Clowney is playing behind Claxton right now, Day'Ron Sharpe probably would play if he's healthy, so one of them.
WAS: I guess they're playing #2 pick Alex Sarr behind Valanciunas, which would make Marvin Bagley their third center, maybe?
CHO: As we just saw, with Nick Richard and Mark Williams both out, they're playing a mix of Diabate (on a 2-way) and Granite at center, with maybe a bit of Taj Gibson
IND: After Turner, they'd probably play Wiseman but he just got injured, so it's been Isaiah Jackson and a bit of Obi Toppin (!)
ATL: Behind Capela and Okongwu, it's been 6'8 Larry Nance and a few minutes of sophomore Mouhamed Gueye
TOR: Behind Poeltl and Olynyk, it's been a little Chris Boucher and a little Bruno Fernando
PHI: With Embiid out, it's actually been mostly Yabusele backing up Drummond, which.... yikes for their depth
DET: Behind Duren and Beef Stew is... Paul Reed, who was a competent backup in Philly for years.
MIL: Aside from Lopez, they've either gone small-ish with Giannis at the 5, or thrown in rookie Tyler Smith. They have a center on a 2-way who doesn't play.
Of those guys, relative to Q or Kornet, I might rather have Sarr as a developmental prospect (but he seems to have already won the 2nd / rotational center spot), and you can make a case for Precious Achiuwa being positionally versatile. I'd certainly take Yabusele over him but as a 4th wing, not as an (undersized) 3rd center. Like, it would be reasonable for someone to answer "I'd rather have Kornet than any of these jamokes"
Running through rosters just in the East real quick, I see competition being guys like:
CLE: JT Thor, 6'10" stretch big on a 2-way
MIA: rookie Kel'el Ware, 7-footer, drafted #15 this year, presumably from Planet Krypton
NYK: Jericho Sims if you count KAT, Ariel Hukporti on a 2-way if you don't, or arguably Precious Achiuwa
CHI: Adama Sanogo, sophomore on a 2-way, behind Vucevic and Jalen Smith
ORL: Goga Bitadze or Wendell Carter Jr, if you count Mo Wagner as a C. They've played Carter a lot more than Goga thus far this year.
BRK: Noah Clowney is playing behind Claxton right now, Day'Ron Sharpe probably would play if he's healthy, so one of them.
WAS: I guess they're playing #2 pick Alex Sarr behind Valanciunas, which would make Marvin Bagley their third center, maybe?
CHO: As we just saw, with Nick Richard and Mark Williams both out, they're playing a mix of Diabate (on a 2-way) and Granite at center, with maybe a bit of Taj Gibson
IND: After Turner, they'd probably play Wiseman but he just got injured, so it's been Isaiah Jackson and a bit of Obi Toppin (!)
ATL: Behind Capela and Okongwu, it's been 6'8 Larry Nance and a few minutes of sophomore Mouhamed Gueye
TOR: Behind Poeltl and Olynyk, it's been a little Chris Boucher and a little Bruno Fernando
PHI: With Embiid out, it's actually been mostly Yabusele backing up Drummond, which.... yikes for their depth
DET: Behind Duren and Beef Stew is... Paul Reed, who was a competent backup in Philly for years.
MIL: Aside from Lopez, they've either gone small-ish with Giannis at the 5, or thrown in rookie Tyler Smith. They have a center on a 2-way who doesn't play.
Of those guys, relative to Q or Kornet, I might rather have Sarr as a developmental prospect (but he seems to have already won the 2nd / rotational center spot), and you can make a case for Precious Achiuwa being positionally versatile. I'd certainly take Yabusele over him but as a 4th wing, not as an (undersized) 3rd center. Like, it would be reasonable for someone to answer "I'd rather have Kornet than any of these jamokes"
Jay Huff from MEM is killing it these days - averaging 11 points in just under 17 mpg, shooting .556 from 3P land.
I guess he (or Aldama) would be third string behind JJJ and Edey.
I guess he (or Aldama) would be third string behind JJJ and Edey.
A little Neemy content for your election morning reading:
Where there’s a lot to be desired is on the defensive end. Maybe because it’s the start of first full year in the NBA, maybe it’s because he relies too heavily on his athleticism, Queta is often a step late and a shift of the hips off. After two blown ISO’s against Jalen Johnson in the first quarter, Queta was benched.
He’s just grown a lot as a player, and quite honestly, he doesn’t know how good he can be,” head coach Joe Mazzulla said after the game. “He’s got a great ceiling, so the standard is very high. I thought he did some great things for us tonight. When you’re as good as he can be, we all gotta hold him to that standard every single night.”
After Johnson cooked him for eight points in the first quarter, he shot just 1-for-6 in the third with Queta as his primary defender. Here’s Queta sticking to Trae Young step-for-step:
After signing a three-year deal this summer, thus starts Queta’s learning curve. Mazzulla said that he’s picking things up fairly quickly and that he likes using Queta’s versatility because he provides another element as a switchable defender.
https://www.celticsblog.com/2024/11/5/24288318/joe-mazzulla-on-neemias-queta-he-doesnt-know-how-good-he-can-be-boston-celtics-atlanta-hawks
Where there’s a lot to be desired is on the defensive end. Maybe because it’s the start of first full year in the NBA, maybe it’s because he relies too heavily on his athleticism, Queta is often a step late and a shift of the hips off. After two blown ISO’s against Jalen Johnson in the first quarter, Queta was benched.
He’s just grown a lot as a player, and quite honestly, he doesn’t know how good he can be,” head coach Joe Mazzulla said after the game. “He’s got a great ceiling, so the standard is very high. I thought he did some great things for us tonight. When you’re as good as he can be, we all gotta hold him to that standard every single night.”
After Johnson cooked him for eight points in the first quarter, he shot just 1-for-6 in the third with Queta as his primary defender. Here’s Queta sticking to Trae Young step-for-step:
After signing a three-year deal this summer, thus starts Queta’s learning curve. Mazzulla said that he’s picking things up fairly quickly and that he likes using Queta’s versatility because he provides another element as a switchable defender.
https://www.celticsblog.com/2024/11/5/24288318/joe-mazzulla-on-neemias-queta-he-doesnt-know-how-good-he-can-be-boston-celtics-atlanta-hawks
Highlights from last night. Another solid performance.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7_iDI2cV2M
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7_iDI2cV2M
This kid is really beginning to find his comfort zone and figuring out how not to get exposed in situations where he used to be unplayable. The secret benefit to KP being out.
I'd imagine he's not fun to play against, big and energetic but maybe not fully in control of all his body parts. Love having him on the C's, he's been the best story of the early season.
He looked like Senhor do Tempo out there last night. I don't think he has quite the same upside as RWIII, but maybe balanced against him having functional knees, we have a great, springy option off the bench.
Queta is a rare breed in that he is learning how to play with a high motor which isn’t something many players develop. In college he was plodding and mechanical, when I saw him in summer league after the draft he hit some jumpers and even one three-pointer that I recall but was still hesitant….if I’d describe him in MMA/Boxing terms I’d say he was afraid to let his hands go. He’s letting his hands go now and finding a comfort zone for his athleticism to show which he’s always struggled with in the past.
Exactly. He is on a team where his teammates want and encourage him to totally unlock his potential. Neemy will get better and better. His teammates will get more accustomed to throwing lobs that he can handle, and he will get more ferocious as a finisher. With his good FT shooting, he should be looking to posterize every time he gets the ball near the rim.
This young big could be a. Dry low cost answer if Horford retires after this season, and/or if ownership next year thinks KP is too expensive to pay and luxtax for a half season of play.
Glad you mentioned the first part of this. I just posted in the Pistons discussion how players learn how to play the game and improve from their teammates. Queta is a perfect example….you can argue that Hauser, Kornet, and Pritchard are as well. Even Derrick White.
Right. IIRC, when RWIII was at the peak of his superpowers, he was hitting short jumpers. That threat propelled his value to insane heights. [/Icarus]
Queta improved his FT shooting and like I said had shown an ability to stretch out to the 3-pt line. It’s probably a situation like Kornet where you have to pick and choose your battles though. His ballhandling and passing deficiencies at this stage aren’t something you want to expose by utilizing him like Horford as a core part of your offense.
Also true. I was just thinking about "something other than dunks." Then again, that's about all that's required of Kornet's offensive game these days, so maybe just not important teamwise, but just for Queta's own growth.
There did seem to be a few instances last night where the ball movement found Queta in a way that he wasn’t ready or able to manage, but Al or KP in that spot would have been fine.
The thing most people don’t understand is that there is so much more required from a big to be utilized as a 3-point threat than simply the ability to hit them at say a 35% clip. It’s all the thing you see Horford doing in that role…..crisp passing and ball movement, setting effective legal screens, reading the defense, ball protection, ability to retreat and defend transition, etc etc. It’s so much more than simply being able to hit an open 3.
I thought when he was taken out was when the Cs lost against the GS. I know Al is the guy, but they were rolling and the Warriors didn't have an answer to his energy.
Joe brought him back in a couple minutes later though. I think he was gassed and really needed a break.
Kornet can still execute more of the offense. But he's got more use cases than Tillman at this point.
I'm honestly not even sure he is right now. We have to see if the past week has been a hot streak or is New Queta. Because if this is New Queta, he's better than Kornet for sure, plus he's obviously more likely to improve, as you mention.
Would be pretty sweet to not only have a massive payroll, but also two of the best bench contracts in the league.
I think Queta is developing shockingly well, but I don't see the comparisons to Rob. Completely different players to my eye.
I think it’s safe to say that Tillman is this years Lamar Stevens. Shit, he was last years Lamar Stevens!
Don't write X off just yet, he is still coming off surgery. He could improve as the season moves along
He's a match-up bench BIG, they are worth more to the Celtics than the Lamar Stevens of the world.
CJM will find him a good match-up at some point.
It was only a few weeks ago that we weren't convinced Queta's skillset fit the Celtic's offensive or defensive scheme.
Queta has always shown improvement since coming here the question was whether he would ever get to where he can contribute in real games. Tillman has always been the proverbial square peg going back to last year. He has a full camp and has now lost minutes that He being gifted to him due to the KP injury. Sorry, I have zero hope for him making any type of impact but I said this last year down the stretch too. He’s terrible at like everything.
Brad has KornQX fully in place, nothing has or will change from their bench fungible5s on minimums. X will contribute on the court at some point. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
It's a brilliant approach to roster mgmt.
Tillman, like Springer, has a rough offensive game. It really feels like the trend in the NBA is to exploit these flaws. Meanwhile, Queta isn't just showing some bounce and energy down low - he is offering some credible perimeter defense.
Its going to be match-up dependent but I have a hard time seeing Tillman as a rotational piece right now. Meanwhile Queta is making the case to take Kornet minutes.
Its going to be match-up dependent but I have a hard time seeing Tillman as a rotational piece right now. Meanwhile Queta is making the case to take Kornet minutes.
Tillman has already fallen out of the rotation. DNP-CD makes that pretty clear. Queta is doing a good job and has jumped him.
BUT its a long season, Tillman will bide his time until another BIG gets injured. Next man up. Confident he'll step in and do a decent job at that point. OR CJM will find a specific match up he wants to use X and exploit it for a bespoke game or two.
Extended spring training is a good place to be when your the C's
BUT its a long season, Tillman will bide his time until another BIG gets injured. Next man up. Confident he'll step in and do a decent job at that point. OR CJM will find a specific match up he wants to use X and exploit it for a bespoke game or two.
Extended spring training is a good place to be when your the C's
You might be reading too much into my mention of Williams (I think I was the first). I was only pointing out that Queta being able to do something other than dunk to score points might make the rest of his game even better, much in the same way that Williams' ability to hit the occasional 8-footer coincided with his meteoric rise. I didn't mean to suggest that Queta will rise to the same heights -- figuratively or (certainly not) literally.
Exactly: the modern NBA is brutally exploitative of players who are bad on offense.
Tillman also has some specific matchups where he's the right kind of player. I'd want him in there defending against Giannis this Sunday, for example, if only to absorb 10-15 minutes and leave the rest to Al. (Al Horford relishes few matchups like he does Giannis, but we do need to protect the guy a bit). Maybe we see Queta as a lone big during non-Giannis minutes, but I expect if he's out there he'll be primarily responsible for Brook Lopez - a real test of his perimeter 3 denial, clearly. But Giannis would treat Queta like a traffic cone.
We might come to see Tillman as the Oshae Brissett "extra-beefy wing" at the bottom of the wing depth, rather than someone taking center minutes as the lob threat and roll man. Could Tillman do an adequate job against Lebron? Paul George? If there's a guy who's just too damn strong for Hauser to hold up, footwork and agility be damned, then maybe that's where Joe deploys Tillman. Or perhaps there's still some C minutes for him against teams that have no real size, like New Orleans. If a team is throwing Daniel Theis out there at center, maybe the right answer (behind Al) is Tillman rather than a less-mobile big like Kornet or Queta. Queta's begun showing some increased quickness, though, and if he can be enough of a perimeter defender, then having him out there as the biggest guy on the floor obviously enables a lot more involvement for him in our offense, even if only as a post and lob threat.
We might come to see Tillman as the Oshae Brissett "extra-beefy wing" at the bottom of the wing depth, rather than someone taking center minutes as the lob threat and roll man. Could Tillman do an adequate job against Lebron? Paul George? If there's a guy who's just too damn strong for Hauser to hold up, footwork and agility be damned, then maybe that's where Joe deploys Tillman. Or perhaps there's still some C minutes for him against teams that have no real size, like New Orleans. If a team is throwing Daniel Theis out there at center, maybe the right answer (behind Al) is Tillman rather than a less-mobile big like Kornet or Queta. Queta's begun showing some increased quickness, though, and if he can be enough of a perimeter defender, then having him out there as the biggest guy on the floor obviously enables a lot more involvement for him in our offense, even if only as a post and lob threat.
I mean sure if there are injuries and nobody else is left he’ll get some minutes but he’s never done a decent job here even after a full camp. Not sure why inactivity will make him a better one.
The league is so, so deep. When they last expanded 30 or so years ago the dearth of point guards in the league made it almost unwatchable. There were so many bad teams.
You're right, he hasn't looked good in his 86 minutes so far this season. He kind of runs in place, not exactly posting a 4.3 40
Tillman had knee issues when Boston acquired him, which led to missed games last year & surgery this summer. Time/inactivity may help with recovery.
X has always been a plus-defensive NBA Center.
Why would he pumpkin at 25?
Why would Brad resign him for multiple years if he was useless?
I like him, Kornet and Queta and believe the Celtics have the best Center depth in the NBA by a country mile.
Going bad on X, 8 games into the season seems way too early.
PLUS we'll always have that 3-point banker along with this gutsy defense in G3 Finals
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJZyH2SYBrc
The difference between Springer and Tillman is that Tillman knows what he’s doing. The jumper is rough but he knows where to go and what to do. Springer doesn’t.
I think they both are out of the rotation now but I, and I would bet a lot of money Joe Mazz feels this way, have way more confidence in Tillman positively contributing than Springer
He was awful. I've been optimistic about him but it is really, really rough out there for him...seems to have lost his confidence
That was ugly. He had about 5 open3s that he bricked or passed up
Joe should avoid double-bigs, especially with X
And they all were ugly misses, with his form changing on each one. I came into the season really hoping for improvement from Tillman over anyone else in the deep bench, and he's been brutal.
The Nets were on 4 days rest and jumped the Celtics from the tip.
BUT Tillman was terrible. It was worse than 3 misses. He had no clue where to stand on the floor or what to do with the ball when he got it.
6 minutes was the end of his night, so credit to Coach Joe for pulling the X rip cord.
The missed threes leave out a few other possessions where he had an open 3 that another player would naturally take but he hesitated and the whole flow of the offense gets messed up.