'Invisible' Ellsbury

Koufax

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Stretching the limits of this thread but I have a question for veteran Red Sox fans. Who is the best fielding Boston center fielder you have seen in your lifetime? I am stuck between Fred Lynn and JBJ.

Ellsbury was okay for an invisible player.
Honorable mention to Coco Crisp. Did not see Fred Lynn, but JBJ's arm elevates him above Coco.
 

Rovin Romine

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Stretching the limits of this thread but I have a question for veteran Red Sox fans. Who is the best fielding Boston center fielder you have seen in your lifetime? I am stuck between Fred Lynn and JBJ.

Ellsbury was okay for an invisible player.
Much as it pains me to say it, Darren Lewis was very good. I'd give JBJ the nod though.
 

terrynever

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What a great new thread this would be on the main board, instead of burying it here in the past.
Go ahead, Lose. As a Yankee fan, it's not my jurisdiction. I just love to watch great center fielders.

Update: Someone started a Red Sox Defense thread this morning for all 9 positions. Pretty cool.
 
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Plympton91

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Ells-binky would make it all better.

I have to say though, this is an excellent use of "whataboutism"
It’s not whataboutism because it’s arguably a lot of cause and effect. If Ellsbury is signed, it’s very easy to envision 3 of the 4 other ones not being signed. You don’t need Castillo, you are a couple games closer to the wild card in 2014 so you don’t trade Lackey and Lester, and Ellsbury’s contract precludes signing both Sandoval and Ramirez.

And at the end of the day, as mediocre as he’s been, there hasn’t been a single year where Ellsbury didn’t outproduce one of the Red Sox outfield positions, or last year, the DH slot.
 

Rovin Romine

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It’s not whataboutism because it’s arguably a lot of cause and effect. If Ellsbury is signed, it’s very easy to envision 3 of the 4 other ones not being signed. You don’t need Castillo, you are a couple games closer to the wild card in 2014 so you don’t trade Lackey and Lester, and Ellsbury’s contract precludes signing both Sandoval and Ramirez.

And at the end of the day, as mediocre as he’s been, there hasn’t been a single year where Ellsbury didn’t outproduce one of the Red Sox outfield positions, or last year, the DH slot.
LOL. Ellsbinky magically makes it all better!
 

TheYaz67

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Jacoby Ellsbury stuck at square one, won’t admit lost season

ST. PETERSBURG, FLA. — Jacoby Ellsbury isn’t participating in baseball activities as June moves closer to July and the Yankees’ outfield is already a crowded house.

Yet, Ellsbury believes the 2018 season won’t be a complete washout as he continues to get treatment for a lower back problem.

“Oh yeah, that’s the plan,’’ Ellsbury said Friday afternoon outside the Yankees’ complex in Tampa following a two-hour session inside the facility when asked if he believed he would return to the big leagues this season.
https://nypost.com/2018/06/22/jacoby-ellsbury-refuses-to-see-this-as-a-lost-season/

Unfortunately he has gone back to being most unhelathy in even years (2010, 2012, 2018) when it looked like he had switched to odd years (2013, 2015 & 2017).... Might not even get a chance this year to improve on his .000 career postseason batting average for the Yankees, which would be a shame...
 

jon abbey

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He can’t make this team if he’s healthy, I don’t believe he’s been hurt all along. Maybe the plan is to get him ready for roster expansion in September but that’s a long way away.
 

Cesar Crespo

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He can’t make this team if he’s healthy, I don’t believe he’s been hurt all along. Maybe the plan is to get him ready for roster expansion in September but that’s a long way away.
I can't see him agreeing to being healthy and not playing. He wasn't that bad last year, and you'd have to think the Yankees could move him in a trade if they paid enough of his contract.
 

jon abbey

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I can't see him agreeing to being healthy and not playing. He wasn't that bad last year, and you'd have to think the Yankees could move him in a trade if they paid enough of his contract.
I don't know enough to authoritatively speak to the former, but I do know that the last part is absolutely not true unless by "enough" you mean "basically all of it". Jon Jay is not too different of a player, and he signed a 1/3M deal with KC in March.

I do know that any chance Ellsbury had to make this roster at any point before it expands to 40 this season vanished when he was hurt in the spring. He would probably need two injuries from the five outfielders ahead of him to have a chance, and even then I'd probably still take McKinney over him.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I don't know enough to authoritatively speak to the former, but I do know that the last part is absolutely not true unless by "enough" you mean "basically all of it". Jon Jay is not too different of a player, and he signed a 1/3M deal with KC in March.

I do know that any chance Ellsbury had to make this roster at any point before it expands to 40 this season vanished when he was hurt in the spring. He would probably need two injuries from the five outfielders ahead of him to have a chance, and even then I'd probably still take McKinney over him.
Yeah, basically all. Maybe a team would buy at 2/8 or 2/10, though. At least the team would save something.
 

mauidano

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Thanks for the memories Ells. It was fun while it lasted and SOOOOOO glad you signed with the MFY's. You have more money than your great grand children can spend.
 

jon abbey

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Yet he is still taking up a 40 man roster spot, not even on the 60 day DL yet. Such an odd saga.
 

E5 Yaz

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Yet he is still taking up a 40 man roster spot, not even on the 60 day DL yet. Such an odd saga.
And I remember when I started this thread that folks thought it would just be a minor absence
 

jon abbey

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And I remember when I started this thread that folks thought it would just be a minor absence
You started this thread in April 2015, he played three seasons after that. Am I missing something?
 

jon abbey

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Where does Ellsbury rank among the worst contracts in MLB history?
Here’s an attempt at a top 20 list from Jan 2018 that doesn’t have him on there, although A-Rod at #1 is not really right since NY doesn’t come close to winning in 2009 without him.

 

BaseballJones

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Here’s an attempt at a top 20 list from Jan 2018 that doesn’t have him on there, although A-Rod at #1 is not really right since NY doesn’t come close to winning in 2009 without him.

I totally agree about ARod. He was paid a ton, but he put up HUGE numbers for the Yanks, won two MVPs, and they won a WS title with him. Not remotely one of the worst contracts. In 12 seasons with NY, the dude hit 351 homers, drove in 1096 runs, slashed .283/.378/.523/.900, put up a 136 ops+, was top 15 in MVP voting 7 times, and did all this while selflessly switching positions so a crappy defender in Jeter could keep his spot at SS.

He's an easy whipping boy for lots of reasons, but (1) I met him once and he was REALLY affable, and (2) he was genuinely a great, great player, even with the Yankees.
 

jon abbey

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I totally agree about ARod. He was paid a ton, but he put up HUGE numbers for the Yanks, won two MVPs, and they won a WS title with him. Not remotely one of the worst contracts. In 12 seasons with NY, the dude hit 351 homers, drove in 1096 runs, slashed .283/.378/.523/.900, put up a 136 ops+, was top 15 in MVP voting 7 times, and did all this while selflessly switching positions so a crappy defender in Jeter could keep his spot at SS.

He's an easy whipping boy for lots of reasons, but (1) I met him once and he was REALLY affable, and (2) he was genuinely a great, great player, even with the Yankees.
Well, he's one of my least favorite players of all time, I disliked him before he came to NY, while he was in NY (2009 aside), and still now when he ruins Sunday night games, but they are talking about his contract here, specifically the one he signed after 2007, so his first four years don't count. The 10/275 deal he signed then got NY four very good seasons including one WS title, and just 320 mediocre games over the other six seasons.
 

Bowhemian

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Plantar fascitis? Oh man that is a tough, tough injury, and very painful. I had it when I was in my young 30's (20 years ago), and remember the pain vividly. Took months of treatment and PT, not to mention drugs.
 

jose melendez

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Here’s an attempt at a top 20 list from Jan 2018 that doesn’t have him on there, although A-Rod at #1 is not really right since NY doesn’t come close to winning in 2009 without him.

I don't love that list. I feel like there are some on it where the value in terms of straight production may not have been great, but there were other forces at play. I don't think I know anyone in DC who feels particularly bad about the Jayson Werth deal. Yeah he was really garbage on the last few years of that contract, but he had three very good years, and he played a big role in turning around the losing Nats culture.
 

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Hey Plympton91 still thinks that the Red Sox should have signed him after the 2013 season even though he has not played in two years. Guess this was another one of his great pronouncements.
 

jon abbey

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And, he's gone, released by NY just now with a year and a $5M buyout for 2021 left on his deal. An awful deal from the second he signed, universally panned and it worked out even worse than expected. Bye bye bye.
 

Van Everyman

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Wow. Not that Red Sox fans should be throwing stones in the wake of the Sandoval deal or anything but I don’t think I realized that he had one year of above average production in a 7 year deal.
 

jon abbey

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We tried that with Tulo last year since TOR was paying his massive deal and Didi was going to miss the first few months. He got hurt in game 5 on April 3, never came back (Didi made it back before him and I think NY told Tulo his window for them was gone) and then retired later in the summer, his Yankee career a deeply memorable 13 PAs. Good luck! :)
 

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EvilEmpire

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Being released to open up a 40-man spot is the most productive thing he's done in years. What a terrible, terrible deal. Still money to be paid, but I'm glad that's done.
 

Van Everyman

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What’s sort of odd is that this seemed ... kind of predictable?

No, not “He will present almost zero value for 6 out of 7 years” predictable. But there was always something about Ellsbury that seemed like a dangerous signing. A very prominent Boras client. Tons of potential, not oft (fully) realized. Somewhat cautious around the media. A game highly dependent on his legs. Extra care recovering from seemingly normal injuries.

Some of this turned into whisper campaigns in Cafardo columns that he was “soft” and refused to play hurt because he was angling for his big payday. That charge always seemed unfair – or at least overblown in the wake of his rib fracture. He actually (checks notes) played >134 games 4 out of the 6 full seasons he played with the Sox.

But outside of an outlier 2011 campaign, it’s hard to think of Ellsbury’s career with the Sox as more than a modest success that never really lived up to the expectations we had following his call-up in 2007. He only had an OPS+ >100 3 times in 7 seasons with the Sox and OPS’d .789. He only hit more than 9 HR once. And while I don’t put much stock in Gold Gloves (he got one) and he did have good range in CF, Ellsbury’s arm probably made him a slight liability on defense on balance.

All in all, something of a tease for the Red Sox who became a massively overpaid disappointment for the Yankees.

Here’s hoping we produce more of them!
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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149, 111, 148, 112 games over the first four years of the contract, though the 2017 season. That's why the games played is higher than we think, he frontloaded a ton of it.

Then....nothing.

A team will probably take a flyer on him for the minimum, but I'd be shocked if he ever plays in a MLB game again.
 

tims4wins

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The $153M over the 520 games he played comes to over $294K per game. Pro-rated to a 150 game season this would be the equivalent of over a $44M salary per year.