Ime Udoka suspended for the 22-23 season

riboflav

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You bring in the experienced guy as the number 2. You don't hand the keys to a guy you don't know well and doesn't know you and the players well at this late juncture.. Also, most experienced coaches who are worth your time won't want the interim label or join this hot mess as the head man right now.
 

riboflav

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Also if there is some fallout in the LR over this, you don't bring in a white male as the number one, HC.
 

teddykgb

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You bring in the experienced guy as the number 2. You don't hand the keys to a guy you don't know well and doesn't know you and the players well at this late juncture.. Also, most experienced coaches who are worth your time won't want the interim label or join this hot mess as the head man right now.
I guess this is where I disagree. This team was just in the NBA Finals there’s a real opportunity for a good coach to come in and inherit a far better roster situation than most coaches have to deal with. An outsider can dodge this by saying he wasn’t here and focus on basketball and from a basketball perspective this is an incredible opportunity
 

lusky

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huh? What did you hear? Who did you hear it from?

There will be more info. The Celtics know what is going on with speculation. There isn’t a playbook for every case like this. I am sure they are talking to legal experts and others about how to say more without violating anyone’s privacy
WIfe of high exec. possibly another in the org but doubt that part
I can't say source, hope it's wrong because if it's not, it's him gone. But I think he's gone. Sorry
Again hope my source is wrong, but this isn't him banging a gatorade girl.
 

riboflav

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I guess this is where I disagree. This team was just in the NBA Finals there’s a real opportunity for a good coach to come in and inherit a far better roster situation than most coaches have to deal with. An outsider can dodge this by saying he wasn’t here and focus on basketball and from a basketball perspective this is an incredible opportunity
When do you hire this guy? You vet them, meet them, meet the team, etc. When do you hire him? Three weeks? Fourth HC in 17 months?

Won't he want his own staff?
 

Ale Xander

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That's just not going to happen and not how this stuff works.

You already have Woj report that it's "a consensual relationship with a female staff member "
You already have Shams report that it's "an improper intimate and consensual relationship with a female member of the team staff"

Those guys rarely get their reporting wrong.

I think it would be irresponsible for the Celtics to confirm or deny any specific details on the record, because then you have to do it for any crackpot media theory that comes down the pike.

The only level more than the reporting we already have is the names you agree no one needs.
The Celtics need to confirm the report(s) (directly or indirectly) if that's what it is.

You can't just suspend a head coach, let alone who took you to the Finals, with mere vagueness.

If someone can bring up a past example of when a head coach or a rotation player was suspended for a year over a "violation of team rules," I'm all ears, but my recollection is it's a week usually, a month at most.

@Red Averages hit it on the head and I await more info.
 

mcpickl

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Can you elaborate why?

edit: I do think I didn't make it clear that I'm not saying name the victim(if there is one), just describe the situation
For many reasons.

They don't owe us answers because we are fans, not shareholders.
There is no reason to describe the situation, because that would just get closer to narrowing down the other parties involved.
They could be liable to a lawsuit from this situation, so would be really dumb to give any details publicly.
Again, if you start responding to rumors, then you have to respond to all rumors.

They are smart to give as few details as possible. There is zero upside for them to give more.

Having Belichick around here for decades should've tuned Boston sports fans in to this already.
 

mcpickl

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The Celtics need to confirm the report(s) (directly or indirectly) if that's what it is.

You can't just suspend a head coach, let alone who took you to the Finals, with mere vagueness.

If someone can bring up a past example of when a head coach or a rotation player was suspended for a year over a "violation of team rules," I'm all ears, but my recollection is it's a week usually, a month at most.

@Red Averages hit it on the head and I await more info.
They absolutely do not, and should not.
 

Ale Xander

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When do you hire this guy? You vet them, meet them, meet the team, etc. When do you hire him? Three weeks? Fourth HC in 17 months?

Won't he want his own staff?
Yeah I think you give Mazz an experienced "bench coach" it can be Vogel, or or can be whatever the pro version of Larry Brown is. Or honestly, it can even be PBS as a mentor from above, being more hands on (behind the scenes).

Thanks to whomever posted the Tatum interview about Mazz. That lessens the sting a tiny bit.

I still don't get the suspension for a year thing. Looks like a lose-lose.
 

teddykgb

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When do you hire this guy? You vet them, meet them, meet the team, etc. When do you hire him? Three weeks? Fourth HC in 17 months?

Won't he want his own staff?
You’ll get no argument from me that this is not ideal. Ideal is out the window. My view is that a late hiring gives you until the start of playoffs to get the team where he wants it. We saw this just last year with Udoka. The 1st half Celtics were absolute dogshit but they found their way with him eventually. If Mazzulla gets buried early he may not have the credibility to get it all turned around and he will be facing serious speculation about his job the entire way. I would just take a longer view if you think there’s a good coach out there and take the pain now while there’s time. The alternative is that you either punt the season or try to bring in a head coach in 2nd half if this doesn’t work and that guy has less time. Could you get Atkinson out of GS?
 

riboflav

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You’ll get no argument from me that this is not ideal. Ideal is out the window. My view is that a late hiring gives you until the start of playoffs to get the team where he wants it. We saw this just last year with Udoka. The 1st half Celtics were absolute dogshit but they found their way with him eventually. If Mazzulla gets buried early he may not have the credibility to get it all turned around and he will be facing serious speculation about his job the entire way. I would just take a longer view if you think there’s a good coach out there and take the pain now while there’s time. The alternative is that you either punt the season or try to bring in a head coach in 2nd half if this doesn’t work and that guy has less time. Could you get Atkinson out of GS?
I mean theoretically I'm not opposed if Brad really feels like he could hire THE next guy within the next month or so but I think that's a very unrealistic option for many reasons, some of them I stated above.

Getting a veteran, savvy coach for the bench would be much easier at this stage.
 

djbayko

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I think going to Mazzula here is a mistake. This is an extremely ugly situation and is going to be a media shit storm. This would be hard enough for him as just a regular first time coach but I think there aren’t many scenarios where he’s able to navigate this well. It’s an incredibly large ask of someone.
I'm sure Brad will be highly visible to provide heavy cover in regards to this issue and mostly let the coaching staff worry about coaching basketball.

It's far too close to the season to think about bringing in a new head coach.
 

AlNipper49

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Well this would be the 0.01%.;)

You go after a married woman you are a complete piece of shit. This isn’t a controversial take.

Also, assuming he’s still with his wife - you go looking for someone else while you are married - you are a piece of shit. This isn’t a controversial take either. Man up, end the marriage in a mature way if you are not happy, then go on to do whatever consensual things you want with available partners that you want.

To be clear, it doesn’t bother me that he’s a piece of shit. I’m sure a lot of people that I know or root for or whatever are pieces of shit and I just don’t know.

In this day and age of everyone disagreeing on everything I presumed that everyone would agree that cheating on your wife or chasing married women was a garbage thing to do. That doesn’t even get into the idiot move of doing it in your backyard.

[/QUOTE]
That was sarcasm, I'm 99.99% sure
 

slamminsammya

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Well this would be the 0.01%.;)

You go after a married woman you are a complete piece of shit. This isn’t a controversial take.

Also, assuming he’s still with his wife - you go looking for someone else while you are married - you are a piece of shit. This isn’t a controversial take either. Man up, end the marriage in a mature way if you are not happy, then go on to do whatever consensual things you want with available partners that you want.

To be clear, it doesn’t bother me that he’s a piece of shit. I’m sure a lot of people that I know or root for or whatever are pieces of shit and I just don’t know.

In this day and age of everyone disagreeing on everything I presumed that everyone would agree that cheating on your wife or chasing married women was a garbage thing to do. That doesn’t even get into the idiot move of doing it in your backyard.
I think the "piece of shit" status of folks who cheat on their spouses is actually pretty complicated and depends a lot on the situation.
 

AlNipper49

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I mean theoretically I'm not opposed if Brad really feels like he could hire THE next guy within the next month or so but I think that's a very unrealistic option for many reasons, some of them I stated above.

Getting a veteran, savvy coach for the bench would be much easier at this stage.
By putting a rookie in there you leave the door open. It’s a smart move. It’s basically what the Sox did with Cora. It’s not like Stevens can’t get an ear piece and coach from his box.
 

riboflav

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Personally, I think Becky Hammon would be perfect especially in the wake of this kind of incident. And, she's someone they've interviewed before ( I think??) so they're familiar with her and she's off the Pop tree. But, can you get her? She says she's very happy in the W.
 

AlNipper49

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I think the "piece of shit" status of folks who cheat on their spouses is actually pretty complicated and depends a lot on the situation.
It is 100% not. You do not want to be with your spouse then you leave then do what you want.

There is literally no middle ground. It’s a black and white moral issue.
 

djbayko

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Yeah I think you give Mazz an experienced "bench coach" it can be Vogel, or or can be whatever the pro version of Larry Brown is. Or honestly, it can even be PBS as a mentor from above, being more hands on (behind the scenes).

Thanks to whomever posted the Tatum interview about Mazz. That lessens the sting a tiny bit.

I still don't get the suspension for a year thing. Looks like a lose-lose.
Ugh. Can we not start calling this guy Mazz please? One Maz is too many :)
 

riboflav

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By putting a rookie in there you leave the door open. It’s a smart move. It’s basically what the Sox did with Cora. It’s not like Stevens can’t get an ear piece and coach from his box.
Yeah, Joe should be very amendable to Brad's and others' input. Within reason, of course. He'll still need enough freedom to put his own touches on things and garner the respect of the players.
 

Tangled Up In Red

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It is 100% not. You do not want to be with your spouse then you leave then do what you want.

There is literally no middle ground. It’s a black and white moral issue.
So, he's not married (engaged). If the other party is, in fact, married, do they split the piece o'shit status 25%/75%? Or does she get it all?
 

The Mort Report

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For many reasons.

They don't owe us answers because we are fans, not shareholders.
There is no reason to describe the situation, because that would just get closer to narrowing down the other parties involved.
They could be liable to a lawsuit from this situation, so would be really dumb to give any details publicly.
Again, if you start responding to rumors, then you have to respond to all rumors.

They are smart to give as few details as possible. There is zero upside for them to give more.

Having Belichick around here for decades should've tuned Boston sports fans in to this already.
I totally agree with this, in regards to 98% of companies, but this is the NBA, it's a completely different animal. You can't contain information like what happened here anymore, its bound to get out, and like I responded to another poster, judging by Ime's response he maybe have admitted to the allegations. And if what happened, when it eventually gets out, is way worse than whatever narrative is created by speculation, it could make the team look worse. I mean how many coaches have been suspended for a year before? There is something major going on.

I'm not saying I agree completely with my point, but if I was doing damage control, I'd rather be more truthful now than take the chance that the team is viewed as covering stuff up later
 

j-man

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Well this would be the 0.01%.;)

You go after a married woman you are a complete piece of shit. This isn’t a controversial take.

Also, assuming he’s still with his wife - you go looking for someone else while you are married - you are a piece of shit. This isn’t a controversial take either. Man up, end the marriage in a mature way if you are not happy, then go on to do whatever consensual things you want with available partners that you want.

To be clear, it doesn’t bother me that he’s a piece of shit. I’m sure a lot of people that I know or root for or whatever are pieces of shit and I just don’t know.

In this day and age of everyone disagreeing on everything I presumed that everyone would agree that cheating on your wife or chasing married women was a garbage thing to do. That doesn’t even get into the idiot move of doing it in your backyard.
[/QUOTE]
well said i dont like the cheating on the wife but other than that it's legal for 2 adauits to do what they do the nba is a players leauge and if they think ime got a raw deal that will hurt u down the line i see both sides through because its also wrong to use your power to sleep with a woman in your business
 

Ale Xander

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Well this would be the 0.01%.;)

You go after a married woman you are a complete piece of shit. This isn’t a controversial take.

Also, assuming he’s still with his wife - you go looking for someone else while you are married - you are a piece of shit. This isn’t a controversial take either. Man up, end the marriage in a mature way if you are not happy, then go on to do whatever consensual things you want with available partners that you want.

To be clear, it doesn’t bother me that he’s a piece of shit. I’m sure a lot of people that I know or root for or whatever are pieces of shit and I just don’t know.

In this day and age of everyone disagreeing on everything I presumed that everyone would agree that cheating on your wife or chasing married women was a garbage thing to do. That doesn’t even get into the idiot move of doing it in your backyard.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah. I agree with you that going after a married woman is a dick move. As is going after a married man. We just don;t know the timing of his separation with Nia vis-a-vis the cheating and the specifics on the courtship. I just thought you were sarcastic based on the state of adultery in the court of public opinion/real world and the specifics/details there that I think slamminsammya alluded to.
 

slamminsammya

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It is 100% not. You do not want to be with your spouse then you leave then do what you want.

There is literally no middle ground. It’s a black and white moral issue.
Digression, but the prospect of leaving a relationship often involes actual dangers that make the decision to stay far from morally black and white in every case. Ever seen someone in an abusive relationship? You don't just "leave then do what you want".
 

Salem's Lot

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Personally, I think Becky Hammon would be perfect especially in the wake of this kind of incident. And, she's someone they've interviewed before ( I think??) so they're familiar with her and she's off the Pop tree. But, can you get her? She says she's very happy in the W.
Personally I think whatever coach makes it more likely that Tatum signs an extension is the right coach.
 

Ale Xander

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It is 100% not. You do not want to be with your spouse then you leave then do what you want.

There is literally no middle ground. It’s a black and white moral issue.
In an ideal world yes. But sometimes you depend on the spouse for income or you have a young kid, like I believe Ime and Nia have a 10 year old son together.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Why wouldn't it be.

Steve just fucked his own team.
I don't know the details but it apparently needs to be repeated that this whole situation is the result of two people's actions. Ime Udoka and the person with whom he was involved. The Celtics may or may not be handling this well but if anybody effed the Cs its Udoka. Hard stop.
 

Five Cent Head

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It is 100% not. You do not want to be with your spouse then you leave then do what you want.

There is literally no middle ground. It’s a black and white moral issue.
No, it's not 100% and it's not black and white. A good friend is polyamorous and has a partner who is married. It's consensual and understood and accepted by all involved. Not pieces of shit. Another good friend (single) had an affair with another friend (married). Pieces of shit. I don't know anything about Ime's relationship, and I certainly don't know anything about whoever else was involved. The likelihood (purely based on statistics and the moral tendencies in our culture) is that Ime's relationship was traditional and the same for the other party, but it's not 100%.
 

Ale Xander

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Noted Sports Attorney Michael McCann just went on Fox 25 with Butch and said the 1 year suspension is unusually long and that if it warranted a suspension that long, they should have just fired him, which is what many of us said here.
 

bosockboy

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Noted Sports Attorney Michael McCann just went on Fox 25 with Butch and said the 1 year suspension is unusually long and that if it warranted a suspension that long, they should have just fired him, which is what many of us said here.
For all intents, he is fired. They are figuring out the money and legalese, almost assuredly.
 

AlNipper49

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No, it's not 100% and it's not black and white. A good friend is polyamorous and has a partner who is married. It's consensual and understood and accepted by all involved. Not pieces of shit. Another good friend (single) had an affair with another friend (married). Pieces of shit. I don't know anything about Ime's relationship, and I certainly don't know anything about whoever else was involved. The likelihood (purely based on statistics and the moral tendencies in our culture) is that Ime's relationship was traditional and the same for the other party, but it's not 100%.
I’m operating on the assumption, based on the punishment, that this wasn’t a poly or swinger type thing.

If that was the case that would be a deeper moral debate than I intended for this thread lol. He’d just be a fucking idiot for doing it with someone that he worked with/around/for/whatever.
 

mcpickl

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I totally agree with this, in regards to 98% of companies, but this is the NBA, it's a completely different animal. You can't contain information like what happened here anymore, its bound to get out, and like I responded to another poster, judging by Ime's response he maybe have admitted to the allegations. And if what happened, when it eventually gets out, is way worse than whatever narrative is created by speculation, it could make the team look worse. I mean how many coaches have been suspended for a year before? There is something major going on.

I'm not saying I agree completely with my point, but if I was doing damage control, I'd rather be more truthful now than take the chance that the team is viewed as covering stuff up later
It's the same animal.

We are not owed any details of what exactly happened here.

You don't need details. You just want details.

Anything that is bound to get out is just speculation. Confirming that speculation would be really dumb.

Your last point is exactly why they shouldn't say anything. If you say nothing, you don't have to worry about being truthful, because you said nothing. If you say nothing, you're not covering anything up, because you said nothing.

The less you say, the less there is to pick apart.
 

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On the Al's sister thing. It is fully possible that players will feel what she said, I have no idea. But I'm pretty sure if the Lakers had dropped Kobe when he was accused of rape, lots of players would have been livid, but it still would have been the right thing to do.
 

Five Cent Head

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I’m operating on the assumption, based on the punishment, that this wasn’t a poly or swinger type thing.

If that was the case that would be a deeper moral debate than I intended for this thread lol. He’d just be a fucking idiot for doing it with someone that he worked with/around/for/whatever.
Got it, I agree that this likely wasn't a poly or swinger thing, and I agree about the idiot part, although I don't agree that the punishment should be affected by the relationship situations of the particular people involved: no matter what, he was apparently involved in an intimate relationship with a coworker/subordinate/whatever, and that's the bad part. It shouldn't matter if they were both single, both married, or anything else.
 

riboflav

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It's important that the players like and respect Joe, which seems to be the case. If the players are angry at management for what they see as "unfairness," they need a coach they want to help, want to play for.
 

The Mort Report

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It's the same animal.

We are not owed any details of what exactly happened here.

You don't need details. You just want details.

Anything that is bound to get out is just speculation. Confirming that speculation would be really dumb.

Your last point is exactly why they shouldn't say anything. If you say nothing, you don't have to worry about being truthful, because you said nothing. If you say nothing, you're not covering anything up, because you said nothing.

The less you say, the less there is to pick apart.
Again, I agree with the points you are making. Outside of, while sure I'm obviously curious about what happened, I really don't care that much, this just me being bored a few beers in on a boring Thursday night ha. I'm just thinking about how these leagues do their best to control the public narrative, and I guess my thoughts on how to deal with it are different than yours. We'll see how it plays out
 

LoneWarrior1

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I’m still trying to figure out what precipitated this process being put into motion. How was the relationship discovered and why so much time between the leak and the announcement? It could have been because the separation agreement was taking extended time, but I’m also wondering if a law suit was already heading down the pike and that’s a factor in how today played out.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It is 100% not. You do not want to be with your spouse then you leave then do what you want.

There is literally no middle ground. It’s a black and white moral issue.
Ime isn’t married and I’ve heard others saying today that he and his fiancé have been separated. That doesn’t change the fact that he violated a very serious organizational rule. We also don’t know if that woman was separated or not……still so many unknowns.
 

worm0082

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This Anna Horford is not coming across well in her responses to her Twitter post at all.
 

Jimbodandy

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I don't know the details but it apparently needs to be repeated that this whole situation is the result of two people's actions. Ime Udoka and the person with whom he was involved. The Celtics may or may not be handling this well but if anybody effed the Cs its Udoka. Hard stop.
No.

The ownership made a call that Ime had to go for shitting in his own back yard, and he deserves some scorn for that along with his paramour. I don't mess around on my wife and do certainly think less of others for doing it. But unless we hear that Udoka abused his power, this is pretty much all on ownership.

Of course ownership can always hire and fire (or suspend in this case) largely on their whims. It's arbitrary to an extent, all such decisions. But all this "he broke team rules" talk is basically shorthand for "don't cross the owner", until we hear otherwise. And that's within their rights. I just think that it's fucking stupid.
 

Jimbodandy

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Ime isn’t married and I’ve heard others saying today that he and his fiancé have been separated. That doesn’t change the fact that he violated a very serious organizational rule. We also don’t know if that woman was separated or not……still so many unknowns.
A very serious organizational rule? Seriously, am I the only one here who banged a coworker? What fucking year is this? Do the Celtics have the ten commandments hanging on Causeway street?
 

Spelunker

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A very serious organizational rule? Seriously, am I the only one here who banged a coworker? What fucking year is this? Do the Celtics have the ten commandments hanging on Causeway street?
Well it's certainly not the 2002 of your response.

The reason we need details is because we don't know if this is about what Ime did, or the price of a billionaire. Or somewhere in between. This matters in, in the context of ultra rich and a black man; pretending otherwise is silly.
 

JCizzle

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A very serious organizational rule? Seriously, am I the only one here who banged a coworker? What fucking year is this? Do the Celtics have the ten commandments hanging on Causeway street?
Were you their boss?
 

Lose Remerswaal

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A very serious organizational rule? Seriously, am I the only one here who banged a coworker? What fucking year is this? Do the Celtics have the ten commandments hanging on Causeway street?
Companies really frown on employees in position of power having affairs with other employees. It’s the whole Power thing. Have you heard of #MeToo?
 

worm0082

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Can you show and/or tell?
Just go look at her Twitter page. She’s trying to make this all about race and white privilege and is belittling anyone white who’s calling her out on it. She will probably be on CNN yelling racism by Tuesday.