Ime Udoka suspended for the 22-23 seaso

ifmanis5

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Sep 29, 2007
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I would guess they landed there over money.

If they fire him, gotta pay that contract off. Or if you try and not pay out, end up in litigation over it.

I'd assume they're haggling with Ime over how much money he'll settle for to walk away.

I can't imagine a scenario where he's actually back next season.
Agreed.
I doubt it's them being cheap, more likely legal advice. And same advice to not disclose the exact infraction he violated in public or go into detail. Which might be good advice but they are taking a PR beating about it.
 

riboflav

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So Barnes played in the league forever, knows everyone and has a showtime podcast with Stephen Jackson. When this first broke he criticized the Celtics for firing Ime, so him noting that someone reached out with details and it was way worse than what he thought is telling.
Yes I think this is what makes his post seem credible and compelling.
 

128

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May 4, 2019
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Ime’s statement is more telling than either of these. His statement did not sound like someone who believes he’s being railroaded.
Yeah, it sounded like the statement of someone who knew he'd fucked up royally.
 

ametman

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Jul 18, 2005
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This is all on Ime Udoka...he has no one else to blame...2 things come to mind...

1. Forbidden fruits create unwanted jams.
2. Control your urges, or your urges control you.
 

astrozombie

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Sep 12, 2022
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This is wild. I definitely thought it was an odd length when it came out (and given Boston's reputation nationally, was sure the national discourse was going to be a different focus) but as things are coming to the surface, this is looking really bad.
 

ifmanis5

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Perk was mad that only Ime was penalized and not the woman as well. The ESPN hosts were trying to steer him into clarity and he dismissed every offramp and so they finally read him the riot act and showed him the door.
 

Marciano490

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Nov 4, 2007
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Perk was mad that only Ime was penalized and not the woman as well. The ESPN hosts were trying to steer him into clarity and he dismissed every offramp and so they finally read him the riot act and showed him the door.
What did Perk believe she’d done to deserve the harassment?
 

Marciano490

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Nov 4, 2007
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They are ignoring that part and focusing only on the "consensual" relationship.

I mean, I get the argument at a basic level but that's a misrepresentation of what is going on.
Real John Wilkes Booth did a lot of great things in the theater approach sounds like.

Not surprising I guess to see this reflexively trigger dudes worried they’re not going to be able to have sex in the office without focusing on the fact that wasn’t the issue.

It’ll be ok, Perk and SAS - the new rules aren’t that hard to navigate.
 

InstaFace

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I'm not morally against workplace romance, but there are 3 rules about it which have, I think we can say, consensus recognition for why they're important and necessary:

1. Nobody within your chain of command
2. Don't bring it to work
3. No means no

We were initially worried about #1, but if Ime broke both #2 and #3, I lean far more towards "can't have that". Depending on the exact facts (that we don't have), I could see anything from a big fine or a short suspension up to this "long suspension that will probably become a firing", all being reasonable.

But a lot of the worries yesterday were "what if he didn't break any of those 3? What if this was just an owner run amok on personal grievance?". And that's where Caspir's intel initially led us to. But it also shows how quickly people immediately jump to the explanation that would maximally excuse the guy, indeed flock to such an explanation when offered. Even when the reasoning of "hey, the team is suspending him for a year, so it's probably not the set of facts that would be the most innocuous ones possible" was also on the scales.

And that kinda sucks.
 

Delicious Sponge

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That host was absolutely 100% spot-on…..and her admonishment ought to be heard by everyone coming up with their own uninformed takes on this situation.
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
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Sep 27, 2016
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I would guess they landed there over money.

If they fire him, gotta pay that contract off. Or if you try and not pay out, end up in litigation over it.

I'd assume they're haggling with Ime over how much money he'll settle for to walk away.

I can't imagine a scenario where he's actually back next season.
I realize that an employment agreement can contain just about any terms not specifically prohibited by law... but under usual definitions of firing for-cause, you'd think this would be covered. And if so, you wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on suing for wrongful termination or getting the value of your contract paid out, right?

Can any of the ECB folks here give some ideas of why the team would be willing to pay more than a nominal go-away severance to an employee under these conditions? They've got a law firm's report confirming, it would appear, severe violations of team policies, and conduct bordering on criminal (whether or not a DA would pursue it). Under what circumstances would they be unwilling to just fire him after the conclusion of the investigation?
 

bakahump

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What exactly makes anyone think that the Celtics have handled this badly?
The lack of information? (a common practice in situations like this)
The Possibility that we will have to watch a 5th place team over the next 10 years?
What makes anyone think that in this entire situation Ime handled his shit well?

So Yea I guess I am team Celtics.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Mar 26, 2005
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I realize that an employment agreement can contain just about any terms not specifically prohibited by law... but under usual definitions of firing for-cause, you'd think this would be covered. And if so, you wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on suing for wrongful termination or getting the value of your contract paid out, right?

Can any of the ECB folks here give some ideas of why the team would be willing to pay more than a nominal go-away severance to an employee under these conditions? They've got a law firm's report confirming, it would appear, severe violations of team policies, and conduct bordering on criminal (whether or not a DA would pursue it). Under what circumstances would they be unwilling to just fire him after the conclusion of the investigation?
I can think of anything that would be worthy of a year suspension that would not also be a fireable offense. Maybe I'm not being creative enough.

As i mentioned above, however, there may be issues at play that puts Ime in a protected legal status - such as disability. Or, as mentioned before, maybe the Cs want Ime to sign a release just to make sure everything is clean as a whistle and Ime won't do that without some sort of compensation.

Finally, maybe the Cs really want to help Ime?
 

Mooch

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That host was absolutely 100% spot-on…..and her admonishment ought to be heard by everyone coming up with their own uninformed takes on this situation.
I found Perk’s comments interesting. He said that “one of the relationships was consensual” which would indicate that (a) one of them was not and (b) the punishment may have been unrelated to the consensual relationship. I get the feeling that the independent law firm was brought in to investigate the consensual relationship and found something far worse with another employee. Hence the comments from Wyc about “twists and turns.”
 

Garshaparra

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Feb 27, 2008
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I can think of anything that would be worthy of a year suspension that would not also be a fireable offense. Maybe I'm not being creative enough.

As i mentioned above, however, there may be issues at play that puts Ime in a protected legal status - such as disability. Or, as mentioned before, maybe the Cs want Ime to sign a release just to make sure everything is clean as a whistle and Ime won't do that without some sort of compensation.

Finally, maybe the Cs really want to help Ime?
Or maybe they don't want Ime to leave for the sunny climes of Brooklyn. I suspect a resignation would require him to not take another NBA job for the duration of his contract.

One point I haven't seen addressed is whether the suspension is with or without pay. Any citations on this aspect?
 

Cellar-Door

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I found Perk’s comments interesting. He said that “one of the relationships was consensual” which would indicate that (a) one of them was not and (b) the punishment may have been unrelated to the consensual relationship. I get the feeling that the independent law firm was brought in to investigate the consensual relationship and found something far worse with another employee. Hence the comments from Wyc about “twists and turns.”
Possible, could also from the vague Shams thing be a case of consensual relationship which was allowed, it went sideways and became an issue (one reason places don't really like even consensual relationships)
 

Cellar-Door

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Or maybe they don't want Ime to leave for the sunny climes of Brooklyn. I suspect a resignation would require him to not take another NBA job for the duration of his contract.

One point I haven't seen addressed is whether the suspension is with or without pay. Any citations on this aspect?
Without, Wyc mentioned that there was a financial impact in the press conference today when asked.
 

Ale Xander

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Wait, he was having TWO affairs with married women at the same time?

well now I’m getting close to Nip’s camp.
 

radsoxfan

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I found Perk’s comments interesting. He said that “one of the relationships was consensual” which would indicate that (a) one of them was not and (b) the punishment may have been unrelated to the consensual relationship. I get the feeling that the independent law firm was brought in to investigate the consensual relationship and found something far worse with another employee. Hence the comments from Wyc about “twists and turns.”
Ime batting .500 on sexual relationships with married women on the Celtics front office staff being consensual…. Perk used that as a positive piece of information in Ime’s defense?

What an absolute clown Ime is. He’s going to be fired and never coach another game for the Celtics. Good riddance.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Ime batting .500 on sexual relationships with married women on the Celtics front office staff being consensual…. Perk used that as a positive piece of information in Ime’s defense?

What an absolute clown Ime is. He’s going to be fired and never coach another game for the Celtics. Good riddance.
He's probably never going to coach in the NBA again. Even at its best, he had an affair with 2 married women on the C's staff. Who would want to work with that guy? He's definitely not someone you are going to introduce to your wife/gf.
 

Ed Hillel

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Perk called them innocent women and then said they should be punished. He also said, and one of the female panelists agreed, that the Celtics didn't do a good job protecting the women involved here. Ignoring Perk's contradictions in that regard, can someone elaborate on that? How could the Celtics have gone through this process better to protect anyone? The fact this came out only now is something I'd consider a minor miracle.
 
Aug 2, 2010
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Perk called them innocent women and then said they should be punished. He also said, and one of the female panelists agreed, that the Celtics didn't do a good job protecting the women involved here. Ignoring Perk's contradictions in that regard, can someone elaborate on that? How could the Celtics have gone through this process better to protect anyone? The fact this came out only now is something I'd consider a minor miracle.
An independent investigation that began in July, and the first leaks came right when the Celtics were about to take action. I’d say the Celtics did a really good job for the last few months.

I also think “the Celtics should have done better” is a lazy way of trying to both sides everything. I’ve seen no follow-up on what exactly they should have done better
 

JakeRae

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Perk says “I have the information” but clearly knows nothing. If Perk had real information, he would be speaking to it instead of claiming “everybody knew” about unspecified acts.
 

brendan f

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Jan 13, 2019
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Without, Wyc mentioned that there was a financial impact in the press conference today when asked.
Not sure this is exactly accurate. Wyc said “The suspension comes with, at least I’ll say, a significant financial penalty when you net it all out. That’s an accurate statement. Very significant financial penalty.” He sidestepped the question of whether the suspension was with or without pay. He said he did not plan to address this question at all in the presser, but decided in the end to give that much information. I'm not sure legally how this works, but it sounded to me like Ime is getting paid but agreed to give up some percentage of his salary, perhaps?
 

GeorgeCostanza

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@GeorgeCostanza, @lovegtm,@wade boggs chicken dinner ....lmao, I would like to welcome you to SOSH....that's funny as hell that I've been a member since 2005, and just made my first post...have a great weekend, and be safe.
I just found it amusing that in the last 17 years we’ve celebrated 6 championships, went through/still going through a once in a hundred years pandemic, Pats TE murdered 3 people, Russia invading a sovereign nation, reality show host as POTUS, all of the extended Marvel Universe movies, Herron getting traded without proper explanation from BB, multiple MLB cheating scandals…you get the idea, and this is what gets you to say hello.

As another poster said, we’ll see you in 2039;)

edit: and you got a tag out of it! I don’t have one of those. Sad.
 

cornwalls@6

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I just found it amusing that in the last 17 years we’ve celebrated 6 championships, went through/still going through a once in a hundred years pandemic, Pats TE murdered 3 people, Russia invading a sovereign nation, reality show host as POTUS, all of the extended Marvel Universe movies, Herron getting traded without proper explanation from BB, multiple MLB cheating scandals…you get the idea, and this is what gets you to say hello.

As another poster said, we’ll see you in 2039;)
Tremendous.