If the TV38/NESN Red Sox 10th Player Award Still Existed, It Would Go To...

Who should receive this year's theoretical 10th Player Award?

  • Renfroe

    Votes: 88 50.3%
  • Hernandez

    Votes: 14 8.0%
  • Eovaldi

    Votes: 7 4.0%
  • Whitlock

    Votes: 65 37.1%
  • Other

    Votes: 1 0.6%

  • Total voters
    175

The Talented Allen Ripley

holden
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 2, 2003
12,400
South Shore, MA
Still a few weeks left in the season, but to me, the choice is between Renfroe, Whitlock, Hernandez, or Eovaldi (based primarily on the fact that he's been the staff workhorse, something you couldn't have predicted at the season's start). Strong arguments could be made for any of these candidates, but I'm going to go with Renfroe because I'm a "what have you done for me lately" kind of guy.
 

ookami7m

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
5,353
Mobile, AL
Would have to go Renfroe - steadying force in the OF defense PLUS all of the assists and big play throws. Whitlock is a close second for being the most reliable bullpen arm after being a Rule 5 pick.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
76,495
Oregon
I'm on the Whitlock bandwagon. I always hated it when, in the old days, they'd give the 10thPA to a regular as opposed to someone who was, well, not in the starting 9.

Plus, I appreciated the aspect of the award as being given to someone who exceeded expectations, or from whom the team got more out of than anyone anticipated. To me, that's Whitlock.

Besides, how can you give it to Renfroe after (apparently) taking the wrong route to backing up Santana on that play?
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
24,141
Whitlock for me. It's hard to top a Rule 5 guy becoming the team's most reliable reliever in a pennant race (assuming he isn't running out of gas).

Not that it's relevant, but if you gave Bloom the truth serum in the spring, and he squinted, he might have said that what he's doing was possible for Renfroe -- maybe the 99th percentile outcome, but still posssible. Whitlock? NFW.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
18,663
I'm unfamiliar with the parameters of the award, is Renfroe not considered a regular starter for the team?
 

The Talented Allen Ripley

holden
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 2, 2003
12,400
South Shore, MA
I'm unfamiliar with the parameters of the award, is Renfroe not considered a regular starter for the team?
It was given annually to the player who performed "above and beyond expectations". No restrictions on whether it was a starter or a bench player/bullpen arm.

Half the time it essentially went to the team's best player, regardless of expectations, which was silly. I know fans voted for the winner, but I don't know if that was the sole source of votes, or if announcers/writers had some say as well.
 
Last edited:

RIrooter09

Alvin
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2008
6,760
Unsure of the parameters as well, but Eovaldi gets my vote of the options provided. He's a rock in an otherwise very shaky rotation.
 

Zedia

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2005
5,432
Pasadena, CA
I'm unfamiliar with the parameters of the award, is Renfroe not considered a regular starter for the team?
Yaz, Fisk, Evans, Boggs and other starters all won the original award. I always thought of it (and the B’s 7th Player Award) as “best season by a guy who’s not one of your stars,” which that list would contradict. But I guess even Yaz and Boggs could “exceed expectations.”
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
16,694
Maine
Voted Renfroe in a close call over Whitlock, just based on playing time and total contribution.

Not sure Eovaldi is a candidate in the true spirit of the award. He was the presumptive ace entering the season with Sale on the shelf and ERod a big question mark after missing last season, and he's been that all year. The only real surprise is he's been durable.
 

scottyno

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
9,404
Hernandez 4.2 bwar Whitlock 2.8 Renfroe 2.6 so I give it to Hernandez. I don't really consider Eovaldi eligible because he came off a very solid year last year and was the ace of the staff, but of course he's been spectacular.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
76,495
Oregon
1975 Fred Lynn
1976 Carl Yastrzemski
1977 Butch Hobson
1978 Carlton Fisk
1979 Bob Watson
1980 Dave Stapleton
1981 Dwight Evans
1982 Wade Boggs
1983 Wade Boggs
1984 Marty Barrett
1985 Steve Lyons
1986 Roger Clemens
1987 Dwight Evans
1988 Dwight Evans
1989 Nick Esasky
1990 Jody Reed
1991 Joe Hesketh
1992 Bob Zupcic
1993 Mo Vaughn
1994 NO AWARD (strike)
1995 Tim Wakefield

2003 Bill Mueller
2004 Johnny Damon
2005 Mike Timlin

2011 Jacoby Ellsbury
2012 Cody Ross
2013 Koji Uehara

(stolen from random internet page)
 
Last edited:

Zedia

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2005
5,432
Pasadena, CA
I didn’t realize Boggs wins came in his first two years, that makes sense and seems more in line with the spirit of the award.
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
Whitlock has been sensation, but he's sensational for 4-5 innings a week. Eovaldi has been the rock of the rotation to date. He's been very solid and more important, consistently good. Hernandez has been defensibly stable up the middle at 2B and CF and has really stepped up at the top of the batting order, but Renfroe is just a bit shy of 30 HR 100 RBI and a .270 BA. He's got 16 assist from the OF has played a very steady defense. IMO Renroe's the guy, but the others are certainly worthy of nomination.
 

Ale Xander

killed off Vin Scully
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
50,439
1975 Fred Lynn
1976 Carl Yazstremski
1977 Butch Hobson
1978 Carlton Fisk
1979 Bob Watson
1980 Dave Stapleton
1981 Dwight Evans
1982 Wade Boggs
1983 Wade Boggs
1984 Marty Barrett
1985 Steve Lyons
1986 Roger Clemens
1987 Dwight Evans
1988 Dwight Evans
1989 Nick Esasky
1990 Jody Reed
1991 Joe Hesketh
1992 Bob Zupcic
1993 Mo Vaughn
1994 NO AWARD (strike)
1995 Tim Wakefield

2003 Bill Mueller
2004 Johnny Damon
2005 Mike Timlin

2011 Jacoby Ellsbury
2012 Cody Ross
2013 Koji Uehara

(stolen from random internet page)
Is there anything Roger didn’t win in 1986?

oh wait

thanks Johnny

/too soon
 

EddieYost

has a special friend in GHoff
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
9,735
NH
Dewey winning it 3 times is great. First time it was a good pick. After that not so much.
 

Scoops Bolling

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 19, 2007
5,067
It's Kike. Recency bias aside, he's been our best and most consistent outfielder defensively, offensively, and as a baserunner. Renfroe's been excellent recently and Whitlock has made a huge impact to the pen, but Kike has been far more critical to the Sox ending up in the position they're in at this point in the season than either of those guys.
 

chrisfont9

Member
SoSH Member
1975 Fred Lynn
1976 Carl Yazstremski
1977 Butch Hobson
1978 Carlton Fisk
1979 Bob Watson
1980 Dave Stapleton
1981 Dwight Evans
1982 Wade Boggs
1983 Wade Boggs
1984 Marty Barrett
1985 Steve Lyons
1986 Roger Clemens
1987 Dwight Evans
1988 Dwight Evans
1989 Nick Esasky
1990 Jody Reed
1991 Joe Hesketh
1992 Bob Zupcic
1993 Mo Vaughn
1994 NO AWARD (strike)
1995 Tim Wakefield

2003 Bill Mueller
2004 Johnny Damon
2005 Mike Timlin

2011 Jacoby Ellsbury
2012 Cody Ross
2013 Koji Uehara

(stolen from random internet page)
So based on what it *was* -- non-star white guy popularity contest winner -- you'd go Renfroe here. But based on what was intended, unheralded glue guy, I'd go with Kiké based on both production and playing multiple positions, particularly one that is a huge minefield for the team whenever he's unavailable.
 

Max Power

thai good. you like shirt?
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
5,873
Boston, MA
Hernandez 4.2 bwar Whitlock 2.8 Renfroe 2.6 so I give it to Hernandez. I don't really consider Eovaldi eligible because he came off a very solid year last year and was the ace of the staff, but of course he's been spectacular.
Renfroe's defensive WAR went from -0.4 before the game to -0.1 after. Those two throws were pretty huge. But having seen who the Red Sox have trotted out as replacement players for the Covid IL, I have a hard time believing he's slightly worse than a replacement level right fielder.
 

scottyno

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
9,404
Renfroe's defensive WAR went from -0.4 before the game to -0.1 after. Those two throws were pretty huge. But having seen who the Red Sox have trotted out as replacement players for the Covid IL, I have a hard time believing he's slightly worse than a replacement level right fielder.
Dwar has positional adjustments, it's hard for a right fielder to ever have a positive Dwar unless they're really good because in general RF and LF are considered the "easiest" positions to play besides 1b so they start with a negative score before they've even done anything.

That being said, he's also probably overrated by some because while his arm is insane his range kind of sucks, he's not bad, but also probably shouldn't be winning a gold glove.
 

beautokyo

lurker
Jun 5, 2008
88
Tokyo, Japan
Toss up Whit/Ren for me. Picked Whit though because he has done way more than expected. (Rule 5 guy right?) Renfro's having a great year though.....
 

Mighty Joe Young

The North remembers
SoSH Member
Sep 14, 2002
6,814
Halifax, Nova Scotia , Canada
Despite the list of winners (Bob Zupcic ?????) I always thought of it as a non regular who came out of nowhere - that is nothing was expected - who contributed as much as a regular starter. or .. was already a decent player but completely broke out (Dewey in 81 who went from solid regular to MVP status)

With that as MY criteria it has to be Whitlock. The fans would probably vote for Devers.
 

amRadio

lurker
Feb 7, 2019
798
Whitlock this year has been the very definition of "above and beyond expectations" so that's my vote. I also think given his season last year JDM has significantly exceeded expectations.

Kike vs. Renfroe is closer than I thought. Renfroe has a lot of errors for a corner outfielder but a ton of OF assists and has out-performed his career averages offensively (109 career OPS+; 118 this year). Kike has been very dependable defensively, has similarly out performed his career OPS+ by 11 points this year and so far has his highest OBP since he became an everyday player in 2018. They've both really helped a lot, but Whitlock has been a stud and I don't think many of us saw JDM returning to All-Star caliber form.
 

normstalls

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 15, 2004
4,115
I vote Whitlock. Rule 5 pick up becoming the rock of the bullpen. That’s pretty unexpected and above expectations. He’s been absolutely phenomenal this year.
 

scottyno

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
9,404
I like the idea of a player exceeding expectations and being recognized and within that context Devers should be in the conversation.
Devers had a 132 ops+ 2 years ago, and has a 133 ops+ this year, how is he exceeding expectations? I think he's having about the year most people would have expected him to have.

He was down a bit last year because he got off to such a bad start and in a short season didn't have enough time to make up for it, but this isn't exactly a breakout year for him.
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Staff member
Dope
I voted Whitlock because the others were all expected to be regulars. If you held a fan vote like they did back in the day, Renfroe would probably win. And he wouldn’t be a terrible pick.
 

Omar's Wacky Neighbor

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
14,347
Leaving in a bit to the studio :)
Despite the list of winners (Bob Zupcic ?????) I always thought of it as a non regular who came out of nowhere - that is nothing was expected -
Was that the year that some guy and his family fixed the voting so that he'd win the car? Or did that happen years prior?

Edit: more like rigged the voting, rather than fixed the voting.
 
Last edited:

WheresDewey

lurker
Nov 18, 2007
100
Taiwan
It's close between Renfroe and Whitlock. A position player contributes more than a reliever, but almost nothing can be expected from a rule 5 pick, let alone being one of the best and most reliable arms on the staff.

I vote Whitlock by a hair for knocking any reasonable expectation out of the ballpark.
 

pedro1918

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,653
Map Ref. 41°N 93°W
1975 Fred Lynn
1976 Carl Yazstremski
1977 Butch Hobson
1978 Carlton Fisk
1979 Bob Watson
1980 Dave Stapleton
1981 Dwight Evans
1982 Wade Boggs
1983 Wade Boggs
1984 Marty Barrett
1985 Steve Lyons
1986 Roger Clemens
1987 Dwight Evans
1988 Dwight Evans
1989 Nick Esasky
1990 Jody Reed
1991 Joe Hesketh
1992 Bob Zupcic
1993 Mo Vaughn
1994 NO AWARD (strike)
1995 Tim Wakefield

2003 Bill Mueller
2004 Johnny Damon
2005 Mike Timlin

2011 Jacoby Ellsbury
2012 Cody Ross
2013 Koji Uehara

(stolen from random internet page)

I realize the list was "stolen from random internet page" but could we spell Yastrzemski correctly?

I vote Whitlock. As other have said, Renfroe has had a great year, but he was an established MLB player. Whitlock was a Rule 5 pick. The fact he came from the Yankee, while really having nothing to do with it, makes it just a little sweeter.