I wanted to keep Jimmy over Brady... and LOCKED!!!!!

[heavyde050]

Its not nearly as tight as you portray. The odds of either Allen or Bennett being on the team on their current deals next year seem very low: Maybe they'd keep Marty if they were bullish on his post-surgery health but cutting him at that cap figure certainly isn't a big loss. So there's 11.5M. That plus maybe some other minor move (Alan Branch looks like a very likely cut for example) allows you to offer the tag to Jimmy. And at that point you look to sign him long term, which allows you to reduce the 2018 cap number significantly from the ~22M non-exclusive tag. If you trade or cut Brady you eat 14M in dead money, which sucks, but you open up 8M to play with. All in all its not a great cap situation for 2018 but its not impossible and its just a question of how you prioritize that short term hit to competitiveness due to cap constraints versus the potential long term boost to competitiveness from having JG as your signal caller for the next decade or so.

The idea that the cap forced the Patriots' hands in this situation just doesn't wash. They had a choice and they chose the GOAT, which was perfectly understandable although perhaps unwise.

Just so I can understand the Jimmy side better - what would happen if the Pats kept Jimmy instead.
Are the Pats still the one seed this year? Do people think Jimmy makes this team a SB favorite this year or next?
I guess for me it still comes down to championships as I realize this run won't last forever. The best chance for the Pats to win another SB is right now with Brady, at least in my opinion.
So if Brady gets one more title than the right guy was probably traded.
I would definitely take another title for a couple years after Brady when the team doesn't make the playoffs.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Just so I can understand the Jimmy side better - what would happen if the Pats kept Jimmy instead.
Are the Pats still the one seed this year? Do people think Jimmy makes this team a SB favorite this year or next?
I guess for me it still comes down to championships as I realize this run won't last forever. The best chance for the Pats to win another SB is right now with Brady, at least in my opinion.
So if Brady gets one more title than the right guy was probably traded.
I would definitely take another title for a couple years after Brady when the team doesn't make the playoffs.

All this is about next year and beyond so the team is definitely still the one seed this year.

Chances of winning a SB in 2018 are definitely lower as you’ve got a likely step down from Brady to JG plus the cap ramifications of making the switch.

After that it all depends on your evaluation of Brady at 42+ versus JG. I would probably bet on Jimmy starting in 2019 with the gap widening after that. But reasonable people could disagree with that assessment. We’re in uncharted territory with Brady so it’s hard to make any prediction about his play level in his 40s with a lot of confidence.

 

[InstaFace]

That must be it. By trading JG, Belichick is tearing it all down on his way out.

He's really been an embedded NY Giant for the last two decades, just playing the really long con. So much makes sense now.

 

[heavyde050]

All this is about next year and beyond so the team is definitely still the one seed this year.

Chances of winning a SB in 2018 are definitely lower as you’ve got a likely step down from Brady to JG plus the cap ramifications of making the switch.

After that it all depends on your evaluation of Brady at 42+ versus JG. I would probably bet on Jimmy starting in 2019 with the gap widening after that. But reasonable people could disagree with that assessment. We’re in uncharted territory with Brady so it’s hard to make any prediction about his play level in his 40s with a lot of confidence.

That makes sense. Thanks for providing that.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Who bleeping cares what George Blanda says, unless you are counting on Brady having a second career as a backup QB/placekicker?

Hey, dummphuc ... you said he'd be the first 40+ player to have an MVP type season. I gave the example of another player who did. If you don't want people to respond to you posts with examples of where you were wrong ... then don't make sweeping generalities that can be disproven

 

[Captaincoop]

George Blanda had an MVP season at age 40+? I thought he was an okay kicker at that point.

 

[mcpickl]

Brady will be 42 in 2019. I'd say it's a really bold prediction that he'll be better than Jimmy G at that point. We'd be really lucky to make it through 2018 still feeling like we have a better QB than the 49ers.

Am I crazy? This feels obvious.

Sure, except that if asked in 2015 will Brady still be playing at an MVP level in 2017 at age 40, most people would've answered no.

Even it his eventual dropoff comes by 2019, he's coming down from the pinnacle. If he slides from #1 to #5, is Garapollo top 5 by then? How far would Brady have to slide to expect him to be worse than Garapollo?

 

[Awesome Fossum]

George Blanda led the league in field goal percentage and was an AFL All-Pro as a kicker in his age 40 season. It definitely wasn't an MVP caliber season in my book, but we live in a world where Mark Mosely won the MVP award for a season in which he missed three PATs and attempted zero field goals over 50 yards, so ...

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Unlike with QBs, the age 42+ regular kicker (or punter) is very precedented.

Age 48: George Blanda
Age 47: Morten Andersen
Age 45: Gary Anderson, John Carney, Ben Agajanian
Age 44: Eddie Murray, Our own Adam Vinatieri
Age 43: Lou Groza, Jan Stenerud, Jeff Feagles, Sean Landeta, Matt Turk
Age 42: Matt Bryant, Phil Dawson, Jason Hanson, John Casey

 

[tims4wins]

Interesting comparison I just saw: Marc Bulger. Started his career 6-0 with over a 100 passer rating. Ended up a middling but decent career. Of course, he had late career Greatest Show on Turf offensive talent around him.

 

[Super Nomario]

Interesting comparison I just saw: Marc Bulger. Started his career 6-0 with over a 100 passer rating. Ended up a middling but decent career. Of course, he had late career Greatest Show on Turf offensive talent around him.

His career was fascinating - drafted the same year as Brady but totally fell apart right when Brady started winning MVPs. Similar career arc to the man Garoppolo is replacing in SF: Colin Kaepernick.

 

[tims4wins]

His career was fascinating - drafted the same year as Brady but totally fell apart right when Brady started winning MVPs. Similar career arc to the man Garoppolo is replacing in SF: Colin Kaepernick.

First 5 years (ages 25-29): 60 games, 36-24 record, 95 TD : 59 INT, 64.4%, 7.7 YPA, 91.3 passer rating
Last 3 years (ages 30-32): 35 games, 5-30 record (!!), 27 TD : 34 INT, 57.5%, 6.2 YPA, 70.9 passer rating

Edit: also an interesting comp to JG since he was drafted in 2000 but didn't start full time until 2003. Started halfway through his 3rd season in 2002.

 

[joe dokes]

George Blanda led the league in field goal percentage and was an AFL All-Pro as a kicker in his age 40 season. It definitely wasn't an MVP caliber season in my book, but we live in a world where Mark Mosely won the MVP award for a season in which he missed three PATs and attempted zero field goals over 50 yards, so ...

Blanda won the Bert Bell Award in 1970 at 43. As I recall (could be wrong), every one of those 5 games was on TV in NY (this was while home games were still blacked out, so the NY teams didn't clog the NY airwaves). He was also the AFC player of the year (this was the first AFC/NFC season).

In 1970, Blanda was released during the exhibition season, but bounced back to establish his 21st professional season. During that season, Blanda, at age 43, had a remarkable five-game run. Against the Steelers, Blanda threw for three touchdowns in relief of an injured Daryle Lamonica. One week later, his 48-yard field goal with three seconds remaining salvaged a 17–17 tie with the Kansas City Chiefs. On November 8, he again came off the bench to throw a touchdown pass to tie the Cleveland Browns with 1:34 remaining, then kicked a 53-yard field goal with 0:03 left for the 23–20 win. Immediately after the winning field goal, Raiders radio announcer Bill King excitedly declared, "George Blanda has just been elected King of the World!"[3] In the team's next game, Blanda replaced Lamonica in the fourth quarter and connected with Fred Biletnikoff on a touchdown pass with 2:28 left in the game to defeat the Denver Broncos, 24–19. The following week, Blanda's 16-yard field goal in the closing seconds defeated the San Diego Chargers, 20–17.

In the AFC title game against the Baltimore Colts, Blanda again relieved an injured Lamonica, completing 17 of 32 passes for 217 yards and 2 touchdowns while also kicking a 48-yard field goal and two extra points, keeping the Raiders in the game until the final quarter, when he was intercepted twice. Aged 43, he became the oldest quarterback ever to play in a championship game, and was one of the few remaining straight-ahead kickers in the NFL.

Blanda's achievements resulted in his winning the Bert Bell Award. Chiefs' owner Lamar Hunt said, "Why, this George Blanda is as good as his father, who used to play for Houston." Although he never again played a major role at quarterback, Blanda served as the Raiders' kicker for five more seasons.

The Bert Bell Award is presented by the Maxwell Football Club to the player of the year in the National Football League (NFL). The award is named in honor of Bert Bell (1895–1959), commissioner of the NFL and founder of the Maxwell Club. Voters for the Pro Awards are NFL owners, football personnel, head and assistant coaches as well as members of the Maxwell Football Club, national media, and local media.

 

[Super Nomario]

It is pretty funny to go back and look at the SoSH reaction to the Jimmy pick back in the day: http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/2014-draft-game-day-2.3310/page-8

Some egg on a bunch of faces here, not the least of all me for panning Jarvis Landry.

 

[Ale Xander]

It is pretty funny to go back and look at the SoSH reaction to the Jimmy pick back in the day: http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/2014-draft-game-day-2.3310/page-8

Some egg on a bunch of faces here, not the least of all me for panning Jarvis Landry.

Bedard loved it. RedO and DTB not so much.

 

[dcmissle]

It is pretty funny to go back and look at the SoSH reaction to the Jimmy pick back in the day: http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/2014-draft-game-day-2.3310/page-8

Some egg on a bunch of faces here, not the least of all me for panning Jarvis Landry.

Only to be surpassed by bitter complaining when the Pats go QB with their 1 or 49ers 2 -- if the Pats go that route with either of those picks. Book it.

 

[RG33]

There's been a full page of shits, fucks and what's but no one has yet posted the name of the pick, which is interesting in a sociological sort of way.

Now, I have to go figure out to use twitter. Back tomorrow.

I thought this was the most amazing post in that thread. This is historical. The birth of a Twitter King.

 

[E5 Yaz]

It is pretty funny to go back and look at the SoSH reaction to the Jimmy pick back in the day: http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/2014-draft-game-day-2.3310/page-8

Some egg on a bunch of faces here, not the least of all me for panning Jarvis Landry.

That was funny.

Louis Nix, meanwhile, is available as a free agent after being released by four teams

 

[Mystic Merlin]

BB is indeed my shepherd. Lead us.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

God I forgot about Dan to Theo To Ben but his post made me laugh.

wait what???

Tony Romo v. 2.0?

Why?

No, not getting the next Tony Romo in the 3rd round, oh the horror!

Edit:
@Timsforwins sees 3.5 years into the future:

Mallett was a good pick because they are gonna get 4 years of backup QB at minimum salary. That has a lot of value. Hopefully JG gives them the same, and then hopefully they hit on a QB in 2017-2018 who will be the Heir. That's the dream.

 

[Captaincoop]

Only to be surpassed by bitter complaining when the Pats go QB with their 1 or 49ers 2 -- if the Pats go that route with either of those picks. Book it.

Interesting, I think there will be more complaining if they don't.

 

[kelpapa]

Pete Williams had it right.

Do not question Bill B. you bitches.

 

[Dollar]

It is pretty funny to go back and look at the SoSH reaction to the Jimmy pick back in the day: http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/2014-draft-game-day-2.3310/page-8

Some egg on a bunch of faces here, not the least of all me for panning Jarvis Landry.

This thread's even better, from right after the Jimmy G pick. http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/rd2-62-bradys-heir-to-the-throne.3325/

It's amazing how much SoSH seemed to like Ryan Mallett at that time.

 

[RedOctober3829]

That’s pretty amusing to read back. Louis Nix!!

 

[InstaFace]

It's amazing how much SoSH seemed to like Ryan Mallett at that time.

To be fair, he was almost traded for Larry Fitzgerald, ten times.

...in the feverish dreams of many posters...

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Chad Finn with a typically valuable take here.

But my grievance is not that they sent him to San Francisco for just a single pick when common sense suggests they might have received a bigger haul had they shopped him around or traded him during the draft. My connecting-the-dots hunch – and it is nothing more than that – is that something changed between the Jacoby Brissett trade and the Garoppolo deal.

Why would they trade Brissett without believing Garoppolo was sticking around for longer than this season? I suspect that it was made abundantly clear to the Patriots that Garoppolo had no intention of sticking around and backing up Brady once he was free to leave.

I do think the above is one of the weirder aspects of the whole thing. But...

My grievance is with how this is being covered. I’ve heard at least a half-dozen radio hosts and sportswriters suggest that there was drama between Belichick, the Krafts, and possibly Brady that led to ownership telling Belichick that Garoppolo had to be traded. I’ve heard some version of this from different reports and on different media and outlets, to the point it’s starting to be taken as gospel. Llisteners are repeating it back as fact on the radio shows.

Have to agree with him, here. Dumb speculation benefits no one.

FWIW, my opinion on Garoppolo was the same before he won 4 straight as it is now. I guess if he had face-planted badly enough instead of winning 4 straight, I'd have changed my opinion, but other than that his current run has played no role in my thought process.

 

[Harry Hooper]

For all those lamenting JimmyG's departure, it's worth noting that it looks like BB is 1-for-1 when using a 1st or 2nd rounder to draft a QB. Why assume he can't do that again?

 

[dcmissle]

For all those lamenting JimmyG's departure, it's worth noting that it looks like BB is 1-for-1 when using a 1st or 2nd rounder to draft a QB. Why assume he can't do that again?

That is a small sample size over 18 years. I don’t know that anyone is assuming one way or another. Instead just recognizing that QB even at the top of the draft is a roll of the dice.

Chad Finn is one of the few guys in Boston with intelligence, common sense and the ability to discern the difference between real and fake news when it comes to the Pats. Michael Holley is another. It is not a big podium.

They are many trolls and idiots. And they suck.

 

[tims4wins]

For all those lamenting JimmyG's departure, it's worth noting that it looks like BB is 1-for-1 when using a 1st or 2nd rounder to draft a QB. Why assume he can't do that again?

He picked JG at 62 and Mallett at 74. Is there that big a difference? 1 for 1 becomes 1 for 2 pretty quickly. And O'Connell was also a 3rd round pick.

 

[Ed Hillel]

What I think Finn is missing is that Belichick doesn’t view Brissett as a top 10 starting QB down the road and believes he could draft or find a backup to provide better insurance in the interim while Brady is still playing. Bill would rather use the roster space on a new QB he drafts with more upside to take over in 3-4 years. Brissett has been pretty decent on a crappy team, but I don’t think his upside is top 5 or anything like that. Maybe top 10 if everything pans out, but those aren’t really guys who win Superbowls. Jimmy has that potential, but the timing wasn’t great obviously.

 

[Harry Hooper]

He picked JG at 62 and Mallett at 74. Is there that big a difference? .

True, but if you're going down that road, then Bill traded JimmyG for effectively a 1st rounder.

 

[tims4wins]

True, but if you're going down that road, then Bill traded JimmyG for effectively a 1st rounder.

I just meant it was disingenuous to say BB is 1 for 1 drafting a QB high when he selected another one 12 picks later and he was a bust

 

[Eddie Jurak]

What I think Finn is missing is that Belichick doesn’t view Brissett as a top 10 starting QB down the road and believes he could draft or find a backup to provide better insurance in the interim while Brady is still playing. Bill would rather use the roster space on a new QB he drafts with more upside to take over in 3-4 years. Brissett has been pretty decent on a crappy team, but I don’t think his upside is top 5 or anything like that. Maybe top 10 if everything pans out, but those aren’t really guys who win Superbowls. Jimmy has that potential, but the timing wasn’t great obviously.

Even if we assume that Pats had this view about Brissett (which seems wholly reasonable), it doesn't quite explain the whole thing, unless the Pats actually viewed Brissett as a worse backup than anyone they could grab off the scrap heap. I can buy that they would rather have Hoyer than Brissett at backup QB, and that being able to get Hoyer back was a key reason why Jimmy was dealt to SF. But it is harder to believe that they could have known in September that 1) they were going to trade Jimmy midseason, and 2) they were - in effect - getting an experienced backup who knew their system as part of the deal.

 

[kelpapa]

I just meant it was disingenuous to say BB is 1 for 1 drafting a QB high when he selected another one 12 picks later and he was a bust

I agree overall with your premise, but i don't think it's fair to call him a bust when he's a third round pick that is still in the league seven years later. Jake locker and Christian ponder were drafted in the first round of that draft. Mallett isn't winning a starting job any time soon, but he's at least still on a roster.

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

I just meant it was disingenuous to say BB is 1 for 1 drafting a QB high when he selected another one 12 picks later and he was a bust

Guys like Mallet, Hoyer and Cassel give me even more confidence in Bills ability to identify college QBs. Sure none all of those guys are fringe starters/career backups but they’ve all hung around the league for a really long time and likely for a reason. Then throw in Brady, Jimmy and Brissett and Bills track record with identifying QBs looks even better. The story is that Bill was going to take Chris Redmond if Brady wasn’t there. Redmond was clearly no world beater but he hung around in the NFL for 11 years.

Sure he has had his share of misses, like Kevin O’Connell, but over the past 15 years has any other coach or personal man brought in anywhere near the number of successful to semi-successful QBs that Belichick has? I’m not sure how to check that but I’d reason that no one else is close.

The standard for picking successful QBs can’t be Brady. We will never see anything like him again. But if you give me one guy in the NFL to pick the next QB then I’m taking Bill and not thinking twice about it

 

[tims4wins]

I agree overall with your premise, but i don't think it's fair to call him a bust when he's a third round pick that is still in the league seven years later. Jake locker and Christian ponder were drafted in the first round of that draft. Mallett isn't winning a starting job any time soon, but he's at least still on a roster.

Ok bust isn't fair, I agree. I just mean that he isn't a legit NFL starting QB

 

[mauf]

The plan was to tag-and-trade JG after the season. The Niners are going to have to tag Jimmy after his 6-game audition, so I’m guessing the return for the Pats wouldn’t have been much different after the season than it was at the deadline; there certainly wasn’t any risk they’d get left holding the bag.

Unfortunately, with Gilmore’s uneven performance this season (particularly in the first half), I think BB decided he needed to keep the tag available to use on Butler. He then decided the return for trading JG was too much to forgo for the sake of insurance, so he dealt him to the Niners.

I don’t think BB screwed up, but I’m not sure why so many posters won’t even entertain the notion that he handled the situation sub-optimally. BB the coach is the GOAT; BB the general manager is merely very good. I mean, how many rings would the Pats have if they drafted as well as Pittsburgh over the past 15 years?

 

[Ed Hillel]

The plan was to tag-and-trade JG after the season. The Niners are going to have to tag Jimmy after his 6-game audition, so I’m guessing the return for the Pats wouldn’t have been much different after the season than it was at the deadline; there certainly wasn’t any risk they’d get left holding the bag.

If the Pats kept Jimmy, he wouldn’t have had his 5-game audition this season, and instead would be a 25 million dollar QB with 6 quarters of experience. If anyone is taking that, it’s not for a high second, and I think it’s good odds nobody touches him at all. The Pats would then be heading into free agency with 15 million or so and a number of serious needs.

There’s also a very, very low chance Butler is franchised. Gilmore hasn’t been spectacular or anything, but he’s been pretty fine overall given his assignments, and he’s been better than Butler, who’s had less to deal with generally. Rowe could probably give you most of what Butler has this year and you wouldn’t need to spend the 14-15 million or whatever. They’ll probably look to add depth to the position, but I doubt it’s for anyone at a premium price.

 

[joe dokes]

The plan was to tag-and-trade JG after the season. The Niners are going to have to tag Jimmy after his 6-game audition, so I’m guessing the return for the Pats wouldn’t have been much different after the season than it was at the deadline; there certainly wasn’t any risk they’d get left holding the bag.

Unfortunately, with Gilmore’s uneven performance this season (particularly in the first half), I think BB decided he needed to keep the tag available to use on Butler. He then decided the return for trading JG was too much to forgo for the sake of insurance, so he dealt him to the Niners.

I don’t think BB screwed up, but I’m not sure why so many posters won’t even entertain the notion that he handled the situation sub-optimally. BB the coach is the GOAT; BB the general manager is merely very good. I mean, how many rings would the Pats have if they drafted as well as Pittsburgh over the past 15 years?

its only sub-optimal in the way getting a 93 on an exam and not a 100 is sub-optimal. It was an unusual set of circumstances.

 

[Super Nomario]

I don’t think BB screwed up, but I’m not sure why so many posters won’t even entertain the notion that he handled the situation sub-optimally. BB the coach is the GOAT; BB the general manager is merely very good. I mean, how many rings would the Pats have if they drafted as well as Pittsburgh over the past 15 years?

Oh man, we really doing questioning of Belichick the GM thing? I thought that died with the Ravens being crappy and the awful defenses the Steelers have been running out there the last half-decade (until this year) and the Packers missing the playoffs. And 20% of the front offices being Belichick disciples and trying to emulate him. Really?

More specifically / less snarky, I don't think Belichick's drafting record is extraordinary, nor do I think anyone's drafting record is extraordinary over a long-enough timeline. There's too much noise. Moreover I don't think maximizing value when trading Garoppolo has anything to do with his drafting. I don't necessarily think he handled this situation optimally, but it was a situation with a lotta ins, a lotta outs. In general I think we overestimate the likely return on player-for-pick trades.

The plan was to tag-and-trade JG after the season. The Niners are going to have to tag Jimmy after his 6-game audition, so I’m guessing the return for the Pats wouldn’t have been much different after the season than it was at the deadline; there certainly wasn’t any risk they’d get left holding the bag.

Unfortunately, with Gilmore’s uneven performance this season (particularly in the first half), I think BB decided he needed to keep the tag available to use on Butler. He then decided the return for trading JG was too much to forgo for the sake of insurance, so he dealt him to the Niners.

Specific to this line of thought, I don't think they would have had the cap space to franchise Jimmy G, even temporarily, or they would have had to compromise the roster too much elsewhere to do this. Moreover, you can't trade Garoppolo until he signs the franchise tag, so if he wants to control his own destiny, he can refuse to sign and force his release (as Josh Norman did a couple years ago), leaving the Pats with just a 2019 comp pick. And I definitely think the return would have been a lot less for a franchise-tagged but no-more-experienced Garoppolo. The 49ers paid in part to get an audition. A $23MM gamble on an almost-totally unproven guy is very different from an inexpensive gamble on almost-totally unproven guy. SF may franchise him anyway, but if they hadn't have liked what they saw, they wouldn't have to.

I don't think Gilmore's performance has much, if anything to do with how they view Butler, and I don't think Butler is a likely franchise candidate. If they were willing to spend that kind of money on him, a deal would have been done already.

Also ... what is the point here? What does franchising and tagging Garoppolo after the season do that trading him halfway through the season didn't, other than improve the backup situation down the stretch?

 

[TheoShmeo]

Putting aside whether Bill is 1-1 or something else when drafting QBs in the early rounds, I think the main point is that getting your hands on elite QBs is very hard to do. It's a strange brew of luck and skills, and we've all seen really good GMs blow high picks on duds and score with lower picks. That's why, for me, trading Jimmy was so difficult. I thought before the trade and still think that he has the potential to be an elite QB. So while there were truly good reasons to trade JG, and while Chad Finn's comment about the so-called drama is well taken and was frankly overdue to be made by someone in the Boston media, I think the logic around "Bill having had success with Jimmy so he can do it again" is wishful thinking. When Brady stops playing at an elite level and is no longer the Pats QB, the odds of them having a successor as talented as Jimmy are, in my view low. That's not to say Bill wont do it -- betting against him is generally stupid -- but no one should be shocked if who he chooses doesn't pan out.

And it's also possible, though perhaps less likely, that the man choosing Tom's successor is not Bill Belichick. People have taken it as a given that Bill will stay in NE for as long as Tom plays but Brady says he wants to go to age 45; Bill may not last that long or may want to write his final chapter in a different city. I tend to doubt that either is true but nothing is promised.

 

[RetractableRoof]

-- snip --
I don’t think BB screwed up, but I’m not sure why so many posters won’t even entertain the notion that he handled the situation sub-optimally. BB the coach is the GOAT; BB the general manager is merely very good. I mean, how many rings would the Pats have if they drafted as well as Pittsburgh over the past 15 years?

I think this question isn't a realistic question - you are making the assumption that the coach didn't get players he desired because of mistakes. If you want to get theoretical, one could argue that the coach has asked the GM not to draft certain types of players, or to value X attribute higher than other teams/evaluators. In that realm, the GM might have drafted "for his coach" even better than Pittsburgh did all these years. Player acquisition is also more than drafting - does the GM get credit for Moss/Welker because he gave up draft capital for them? And then there is the reverse of it. Do you think the coach would want a receiver who thought live broadcasting the locker room was a good idea? Or who wasn't smart enough to know better? At least the serial killer the GM here gambled on kept his activities away from the team (I presume :/).

I do not think he drafts extremely well in terms of getting names per se, and he seems to have a blind spot for receivers. I also consider his drafting position over the years, and the picks the league has stolen from him that would make a difference. Also the coach has asked the GM to move on from players like Collins and Jones, who might make the defense look a little more rosy this year.

Few say he is infallible, but unlike most of the decision making around the league, it appears that it is being done logically, with structure and evaluation behind it (which may get over looked when the rest of the league has differing views on evaluation). More importantly to me is that the decisions don't appear to be getting made with desperation or a fear for his job, a failure of many GMs. Are there one or two teams who seem to get it done consistently, sure. But BB the GM is right there - and considering he has a good working relationship with BB the coach - I'll take his failures as a GM in that package deal.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

I agree that BB as GM is better than I think may appear sometimes AND I agree that this situation did not go the way many hoped or wanted it to, or expected it to.

What keeps me guessing is not receiving more than just the 2nd rounder - maybe, say, a conditional 2nd or 3rd in addition, based on JG meeting certain win totals or something - MIXED with the fact that the 49ers were surprised to get the call AND, most importantly to me anyway, the fact that the call lasted TEN MINUTES. That kind of sticks in my craw a bit, esp when it feels like the Pats arguably didn't maximize value.

 

[RetractableRoof]

I agree that BB as GM is better than I think may appear sometimes AND I agree that this situation did not go the way many hoped or wanted it to, or expected it to.

What keeps me guessing is not receiving more than just the 2nd rounder - maybe, say, a conditional 2nd or 3rd in addition, based on JG meeting certain win totals or something - MIXED with the fact that the 49ers were surprised to get the call AND, most importantly to me anyway, the fact that the call lasted TEN MINUTES. That kind of sticks in my craw a bit, esp when it feels like the Pats arguably didn't maximize value.

The agent for both QBs is the same. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a reward in play for JG not rocking the boat over playing time over the last year or so. Sending JG to a decent situation/coach versus where ever an auction may have sent him. If so, I'd be ok with it if that contributed to a good locker room or something of the like.

 

[Average Reds]

For all those lamenting JimmyG's departure, it's worth noting that it looks like BB is 1-for-1 when using a 1st or 2nd rounder to draft a QB. Why assume he can't do that again?

Because projecting whether raw talent translates into a star NFL QB is almost flukishly hard.

The reason people here liked Mallet (and why Jay Cutler stuck so long as an NFL starter) is that he had everything you could want as a QB, except for the factors that are, ultimately, decisive: the ability to read defenses, the guts to stand in the pocket while ignoring the chaos around them and the judgment to make the right throws.

Putting aside whether Bill is 1-1 or something else when drafting QBs in the early rounds, I think the main point is that getting your hands on elite QBs is very hard to do. It's a strange brew of luck and skills, and we've all seen really good GMs blow high picks on duds and score with lower picks. That's why, for me, trading Jimmy was so difficult. I thought before the trade and still think that he has the potential to be an elite QB. So while there were truly good reasons to trade JG, and while Chad Finn's comment about the so-called drama is well taken and was frankly overdue to be made by someone in the Boston media, I think the logic around "Bill having had success with Jimmy so he can do it again" is wishful thinking. When Brady stops playing at an elite level and is no longer the Pats QB, the odds of them having a successor as talented as Jimmy are, in my view low. That's not to say Bill wont do it -- betting against him is generally stupid -- but no one should be shocked if who he chooses doesn't pan out.

And it's also possible, though perhaps less likely, that the man choosing Tom's successor is not Bill Belichick. People have taken it as a given that Bill will stay in NE for as long as Tom plays but Brady says he wants to go to age 45; Bill may not last that long or may want to write his final chapter in a different city. I tend to doubt that either is true but nothing is promised.

This is about right, except that the jury is still out on JG. He may very well be an elite QB. Or, he may be Matt Flynn/Scott Mitchell/(insert one season wonder here.)

 

[Al Zarilla]

Because projecting whether raw talent translates into a star NFL QB is almost flukishly hard.

The reason people here liked Mallet (and why Jay Cutler stuck so long as an NFL starter) is that he had everything you could want as a QB, except for the factors that are, ultimately, decisive: the ability to read defenses, the guts to stand in the pocket while ignoring the chaos around them and the judgment to make the right throws.



This is about right, except that the jury is still out on JG. He may very well be an elite QB. Or, he may be Matt Flynn/Scott Mitchell/(insert one season wonder here.)

So, where is the jury on Jared Goff and Carson Wentz? Is there some kind of a milestone point in terms of number of games at which you say a quarterback is good and you can make plans with and around him?

 

[Average Reds]

So, where is the jury on Jared Goff and Carson Wentz? Is there some kind of a milestone point in terms of number of games at which you say a quarterback is good and you can make plans with and around him?

I was actually going to mention Wentz.

One good year is one good year. A second (with significantly improved performance) is not a fluke. Wentz is the real deal.

After one+ productive years, it appears that Goff is too.

 

[Al Zarilla]

I was actually going to mention Wentz.

One good year is one good year. A second (with significantly improved performance) is not a fluke. Wentz is the real deal.

After one+ productive years, it appears that Goff is too.

Not sure I'd trade Garoppolo for Goff. Everybody talks about the great move up in head coaching talent from Fisher to McVay, but should it make that much difference in QB play? I want to see another good year from Goff.

 

[johnmd20]

Not sure I'd trade Garoppolo for Goff. Everybody talks about the great move up in head coaching talent from Fisher to McVay, but should it make that much difference in QB play? I want to see another good year from Goff.

Yes, it could make that much difference. A coach can have a tremendous impact on a team. In the NFL, it comes down to injuries, the coach, and the QB.

 

[Sportsbstn]

I was actually going to mention Wentz.

One good year is one good year. A second (with significantly improved performance) is not a fluke. Wentz is the real deal.

After one+ productive years, it appears that Goff is too.

It didn’t hurt that Gurley found his talent again this year. He was a total mess last year.