I Believe in Time Lord...Why Can't You?

lovegtm

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TL has looked awful on defense since coming back. Hopefully it's just a matter of timing and getting his legs under him.
 

reggiecleveland

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It is probably time we noticed he is making midrange jumpers. I thought Doug Christie as color guy for the Clips noted the Celtics bigs complement each other. I have noticed teams have been dropping off the bigs on handoff to understandably cheat on Tatum. Thompson has started bullling his way to the hoop, and TL has made the little jumper. Pretty important development. This has all com,e with Tatum attacking the rim more.

Maybe nobody else is in my time zone to watch last night.
 

lovegtm

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It is probably time we noticed he is making midrange jumpers. I thought Doug Christie as color guy for the Clips noted the Celtics bigs complement each other. I have noticed teams have been dropping off the bigs on handoff to understandably cheat on Tatum. Thompson has started bullling his way to the hoop, and TL has made the little jumper. Pretty important development. This has all com,e with Tatum attacking the rim more.

Maybe nobody else is in my time zone to watch last night.
Yeah, the Celtics are also getting some lineups out there with more shooting, and it’s causing teams to hug up on shooters, leaving their bigs on an island.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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It is probably time we noticed he is making midrange jumpers. I thought Doug Christie as color guy for the Clips noted the Celtics bigs complement each other. I have noticed teams have been dropping off the bigs on handoff to understandably cheat on Tatum. Thompson has started bullling his way to the hoop, and TL has made the little jumper. Pretty important development. This has all com,e with Tatum attacking the rim more.

Maybe nobody else is in my time zone to watch last night.
I'm amazed that TL is even taking those. I think he was 2-3 last night: 2 of which were straight on 17 foot jumpers but the icing was the nice little 10 feet shot from the baseline, which you know is not an easy shot. It's great that Brad doesn't pull him when he takes those so I guess they've agreed he can make it.

I said this in the other thread but it seems to me that he stops and watches far too much for a guy with his kind of athletic ability - particularly his quick hands. If this is correct, I would think this annoys Brad way more than the jumpers.
 

Jimbodandy

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I'm amazed that TL is even taking those. I think he was 2-3 last night: 2 of which were straight on 17 foot jumpers but the icing was the nice little 10 feet shot from the baseline, which you know is not an easy shot. It's great that Brad doesn't pull him when he takes those so I guess they've agreed he can make it.

I said this in the other thread but it seems to me that he stops and watches far too much for a guy with his kind of athletic ability - particularly his quick hands. If this is correct, I would think this annoys Brad way more than the jumpers.
He has always had that shot, but was looking to screen/roll or swing immediately like 100% of the time. He took a couple 15 foot jumpers before, like literally a couple. Doubt that Brad ever told him not to take that shot if he's totally disregarded. Good to see, since defenses playing 5 on 4 sucks for us.
 

Euclis20

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Hakeem did too. One year he had 213 steals and 282 blocks.
It's nearly pointless to compare per 36 minute stats when one guy is averaging 12.1 mpg and the other averaged 35.7, but why not: Hakeem averaged 1.8 steals and 3.1 blocks per 36, Williams is averaging 2.0 steals and 3.7 blocks per 36.
 

NomarsFool

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I don't know how much he can play conditioning wise, but what can we do to get this guy some more playing time? He seems to be 3rd on the C depth chart - which seems off to me. I know that he makes mistakes, but I'd rather see him make those mistakes and learn from them than sit on the bench. I'm also not a big fan of the 2 big lineup - and I know that TT has been playing better lately. Do the Celtics need to make a trade to free up the logjam?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I don't know how much he can play conditioning wise, but what can we do to get this guy some more playing time? He seems to be 3rd on the C depth chart - which seems off to me. I know that he makes mistakes, but I'd rather see him make those mistakes and learn from them than sit on the bench. I'm also not a big fan of the 2 big lineup - and I know that TT has been playing better lately. Do the Celtics need to make a trade to free up the logjam?
Turns out Brad is acutely aware of TL's minutes (go figure!) and is trying to manage his health, particularly his hip: https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2021/02/21/brad-stevens-celtics-robert-williams-minutes-restriction
That light workload is by design, according to Celtics coach Brad Stevens. Williams has been dealing with a hip issue, and he has an artery condition that causes cramping and could eventually require a procedure if it becomes a major issue. Boston is preemptively trying to keep him off the injury list and wants him available as the season stretches on.
“The hip is not bothering him, but we’re just trying to manage it over the course of the long season so that he’s available more often than not, and then able to peak in minutes late,” Stevens said. “So I guess it’s more of a just be alert to it. Obviously, he had the two games that he sat out because it was bothering him, but we’re just alert to it.”
 

bakahump

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I am firmly driving the RWIII BanDelorean.
I appreciate keeping him healthy but (like yesterday) they need to use him in high lev situations, perhaps against some of the better Frontline players (Like Zion).
 

benhogan

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I don't know how much he can play conditioning wise, but what can we do to get this guy some more playing time? He seems to be 3rd on the C depth chart - which seems off to me. I know that he makes mistakes, but I'd rather see him make those mistakes and learn from them than sit on the bench. I'm also not a big fan of the 2 big lineup - and I know that TT has been playing better lately. Do the Celtics need to make a trade to free up the logjam?
TL should start seeing higher leverage minutes (along with Theis) as the season moves along. I'm fine with keeping all 3, depth is good.

BUT If they need to add Tristan as filler to attain a wing, that works since classic/beef centers are the easiest to pick up on the cheap. In a pinch Tacko can be our classic/beef/10min Center anyways.
 

NomarsFool

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To my memory he played all of the ot last night, matched up with Zion.
Last night was:

Theis 38:44
Thompson 29:57
Williams 21:07

Without the OT, Williams would have been 16 minutes, which seems about what his usual time has been per game for reasons I don't quite understand. I'd like to see TT and RW switched in terms of minutes.
 

NomarsFool

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BUT If they need to add Tristan as filler to attain a wing, that works since classic/beef centers are the easiest to pick up on the cheap. In a pinch Tacko can be our classic/beef/10min Center anyways.
Yes. They also have smallball 5 GW in a pinch. Heck, he's played his best basketball as a Celtic at that position.

I think there will be some 3rd string centers available for nothing pretty soon. Was Cousins already released? Will Drummond be bought out (although he'd want more than a 3rd string role)?
 

Cesar Crespo

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GW is considerably worse than all 3. Of course if TT were gone, Theis and TL would just split the minutes barring foul trouble... so yeah, they'd need another big.

That's another thing that's overlooked too. All 3 play because all 3 are foul prone.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Whats your rational for
The C's are small as it is. Having Grant play the 5 makes it worse. Maybe you can steal some minutes in certain matchups but if you have Grant playing minutes at the 5 every night, you have some problems. I would also guess he picks up about 4 fouls in 10 minutes playing the 5, but he does that playing any position.

It's possible Grant is hurt but he's picked up a DNP-CD in 3 of the last 4 and with Nesmith playing better, I don't see that trend changing. He's been decent shooting the 3 this year but it's at low volume and he's been bad on the defensive end. He really doesn't seem to have a position in the NBA.

What kind of player do people think Grant Williams develops into? Something better than TT, Theis or Robert Williams? I thought it was pretty clear he's worse than all 3. So is Semi. That's why the team has problems. 3 of the top 8 players are interchangeable bigs.
 

joe dokes

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Last night was:

Theis 38:44
Thompson 29:57
Williams 21:07

Without the OT, Williams would have been 16 minutes, which seems about what his usual time has been per game for reasons I don't quite understand. I'd like to see TT and RW switched in terms of minutes.
It might be related to what Stevens said about keeping an eye on his hip.
 

Cellar-Door

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Last night was:

Theis 38:44
Thompson 29:57
Williams 21:07

Without the OT, Williams would have been 16 minutes, which seems about what his usual time has been per game for reasons I don't quite understand. I'd like to see TT and RW switched in terms of minutes.
Watching his health... though also, Thompson earned minutes in that game because he played excellent defense on Zion in the first half.
 

NomarsFool

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Athletic: Robert Williams’ strong play starting to outweigh risks for Celtics

"Gordon Hayward left, they used the mid-level exception on another center in Tristan Thompson. It wasn’t crazy for Boston to want an established big man at the time. Williams was coming off an inconsistent, injury-riddled season. But after 30 games, it’s clear the Celtics could have used more help on the perimeter rather than another center to block Williams from the court. Even Stevens has hinted he wishes the roster had been shaped differently.

“I’ve said this all year, one of the challenges of our team is that you get past our best perimeter players and the next probably three best guys as far as production goes so far on our team are at first blush (centers),” Stevens said."
 

TripleOT

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Ridiculous highlights in February from the Timelord. He played in 14 of 16 games, including 9 in a row. He’a become quite a weapon as a rim runner in the pick/roll, and should be getting more shots. His team defensive awareness is much improved.


View: https://youtu.be/MquLeHYriwA
 

NomarsFool

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He's still 3rd in minutes behind TT in every single game, I think. Not sure he has ever played more than 20 minutes. Seems like Brad is really handling him with care.
 

HomeRunBaker

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He's still 3rd in minutes behind TT in every single game, I think. Not sure he has ever played more than 20 minutes. Seems like Brad is really handling him with care.
He’s improving but still so far to go to be trusted in key situations despite the highlight reels. He always out of position on both ends of the floor running around with his head cut off.....sometimes this is good as he can make plays. He’s like a big JR Smith out there right now. Feast or famine but a tough guy to trust.
 

joe dokes

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He’s improving but still so far to go to be trusted in key situations despite the highlight reels. He always out of position on both ends of the floor running around with his head cut off.....sometimes this is good as he can make plays. He’s like a big JR Smith out there right now. Feast or famine but a tough guy to trust.
I think this reflects that TT is, for better and worse, consistent. He can be counted on usually to be in the right place at the right time. But despite that, his limited athleticism (whether it's rust, age or injury is beside the point right now) cancels that out somewhere between frequently and occasionally (math!). If TL could be 70% as consistent as TT in his "being in the right place," he'd be the obvious all-the-time first choice as between the two. He's improving, though.
 

bakahump

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@HRB I am no where near the student of the game you are but I dont see that at all. He has been tremendously better at both ends since the end of Jan imho.

I would love to see some examples of the head cut off you see.

(I will concede it doesnt matter what I or you think.....Brad isnt playing him as much as the others...)
 

DannyDarwinism

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Ridiculous highlights in February from the Timelord. He played in 14 of 16 games, including 9 in a row. He’a become quite a weapon as a rim runner in the pick/roll, and should be getting more shots. His team defensive awareness is much improved.
I think I heard this on the Dunc'd On podcast, but I believe that guys are shooting something like 0-14 against him in isolations this year.

I still see a lot of what HRB (and a lot of other people) see, in terms of positioning, rotations, reads, etc..., but I think it's pretty damn encouraging that despite all of that, he still rates as a really impactful defender by most advanced stats. And I think he's absolutely making progress learning the game- if he keeps getting reps and getting his game processing up to speed, he has all the tools to become a defensive force. Let's face it, the in-between-the-ears stuff is the reason he slid all the way to us in the first place after he was a projected lottery pick the year before, but he's maturing and in a great spot to keep developing, if we can afford to keep him. His upside is perfect for this team. There just aren't many dudes out there with his bounce and length.
 

lovegtm

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He’s improving but still so far to go to be trusted in key situations despite the highlight reels. He always out of position on both ends of the floor running around with his head cut off.....sometimes this is good as he can make plays. He’s like a big JR Smith out there right now. Feast or famine but a tough guy to trust.
Brad directly said that the primary limiter on his minutes is the health of his hip, and managing that.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Brad directly said that the primary limiter on his minutes is the health of his hip, and managing that.
Seems like coach speak to me based on how Brad utilized him earlier in the season compared to how he is now. As TL improves his awareness and understanding of the game, which I ageee he has, then Brad will begin playing him more 4Q minutes......which he has recently. If it was only the hip management he would have been used more in end of game moments earlier in the season as well. Brad has also used TL more mpg on the 2nd night of B2B than any of 1, 2 and 3 days rest which doesn’t coincide with injury management.

What DD said.
 
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cardiacs

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I have noticed the following several times:
1. TL will do something very good or exciting, and fans/teammates/himself get fired up
2. Next defensive set he will play super-hyped due to adrenaline, and will make a bone-headed play. For example he will overcommit far away from the basket, lose his guy on a screen or doesn't switch when he needs to
3. The other team's offense notices and they get an easy look, if not a bucket

He needs to play more consistently and with a level head at all times.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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TL played 50 minutes total in the 4Q in 11 games during February. He played 38 total minutes in 9 games in January. He played 15 4Q minutes in 4 games in December. He appears to be getting more minutes in the 4Q as it's reported that Brad said that the Cs "upside is Robert Williams."

As a side note, TL was -37 in the 4Q in January and is so far a -24 in the 4Q in February.

Obviously SSS and all.
 

HomeRunBaker

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TL played 50 minutes total in the 4Q in 11 games during February. He played 38 total minutes in 9 games in January. He played 15 4Q minutes in 4 games in December. He appears to be getting more minutes in the 4Q as it's reported that Brad said that the Cs "upside is Robert Williams."

As a side note, TL was -37 in the 4Q in January and is so far a -24 in the 4Q in February.

Obviously SSS and all.
Would have to look to see how many of these 4Q minutes came during blowouts compared to high leverage. If I had to guess based on observation I’d say he’s getting many more high leverage 4Q min in Feb and more garbage time in Jan.
 

Auger34

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I have noticed the following several times:
1. TL will do something very good or exciting, and fans/teammates/himself get fired up
2. Next defensive set he will play super-hyped due to adrenaline, and will make a bone-headed play. For example he will overcommit far away from the basket, lose his guy on a screen or doesn't switch when he needs to
3. The other team's offense notices and they get an easy look, if not a bucket

He needs to play more consistently and with a level head at all times.
This falls in line with what I’ve seen too. I don’t know what it is but he has a few random mental lapses every game that hurt. It’s almost like he loses focus for a couple of seconds and it always bites him in the ass.

To your point, I remember a game about a week or so ago where he made a tremendous block, tipped the ball to himself...then immediately rifled a chest pass right to an opposing player who got an easy lay up. It felt like the Timelord experience all wrapped up in one single minute
 

bigq

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Ridiculous highlights in February from the Timelord. He played in 14 of 16 games, including 9 in a row. He’a become quite a weapon as a rim runner in the pick/roll, and should be getting more shots. His team defensive awareness is much improved.


View: https://youtu.be/MquLeHYriwA
That was five and a half minutes well spent. In addition to his otherworldly athleticism and leaping ability he has soft hands and a huge catch radius. He is also a very good passer.

February was a disappointing month for the Celtics in the W-L columns but it was probably the best month of TL’s career. I am looking forward to earning more minutes and continuing to grow. This team needs him.
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

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I think that's why he's my favorite Celtic. He reminds me of Manny Ramirez. He'll do something amazing in the course of the game, something so elite that you'll want to see replay over and over. Then he'll throw the ball into the stands.

I say lean into The Timelord Experience! If you want a boring, non-transcendent, responsible mortal at the 5, Daniel Theis is your man. He'll never wow you, and never infuriate you.

Gimme the center who on defense will spike a weak floater into the fifth row on one possession and allow a backdoor cut for a layup thirty seconds later. The agony and the ecstasy. At least I'll know I'm alive.
 
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HomeRunBaker

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This falls in line with what I’ve seen too. I don’t know what it is but he has a few random mental lapses every game that hurt. It’s almost like he loses focus for a couple of seconds and it always bites him in the ass.

To your point, I remember a game about a week or so ago where he made a tremendous block, tipped the ball to himself...then immediately rifled a chest pass right to an opposing player who got an easy lay up. It felt like the Timelord experience all wrapped up in one single minute
Yeah and then there was Tatum’s header. He’s like our own little JaVale/JR all wrapped into one.
 

benhogan

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I'm reading a lot of 1st year/early 2nd season takes in regards to Rob Williams. There is no way he would be this efficient if he was making as many "boneheaded" plays as there is being propped.

A lot of stuff that looks like errors on his part is Rob helping on defense. He's a legit rim protector and our perimeter defense from the wings/guards has been crappy all season. He can create a lot of issues for opponents that our other Centers aren't capable of.

His steals, blocks, and FG% are extremely high level. He has difference level talent, that would be a great compliment with the Jays during the playoffs. The only thing holding back Rob is the hip/health and Brad's fear that he'll breakdown. It has Zero to do with what's going on between the ears.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I'm reading a lot of 1st year/early 2nd season takes in regards to Rob Williams. There is no way he would be this efficient if he was making as many "boneheaded" plays as there is being propped.

A lot of stuff that looks like errors on his part is Rob helping on defense. He's a legit rim protector and our perimeter defense from the wings/guards has been crappy all season. He can create a lot of issues for opponents that our other Centers aren't capable of.
Nobody is denying the positives.....only pointing out the negatives that are still clearly evident on both ends of the floor even if they have decreased from early career Rob. I mean he literally threw the ball off Tatum’s head that led to a layup at the other end. That play was the very definition of boneheaded.


His steals, blocks, and FG% are extremely high level. He has difference level talent, that would be a great compliment with the Jays during the playoffs. The only thing holding back Rob is the hip/health and Brad's fear that he'll breakdown. It has Zero to do with what's going on between the ears.
Cited above how the hip management doesn’t pass the smell test by him playing more mph on second leg of B2B.
 

benhogan

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Nobody is denying the positives.....only pointing out the negatives that are still clearly evident on both ends of the floor even if they have decreased from early career Rob. I mean he literally threw the ball off Tatum’s head that led to a layup at the other end. That play was the very definition of boneheaded.



Cited above how the hip management doesn’t pass the smell test by him playing more mph on second leg of B2B.
If his body let him play 26-30mpg, even with all the boneheaded plays, he could be a top 10 Center in the NBA by next season. o_O

2020-21 season per36
#3 Center in FG%/TS%
#5 Center in blocks
#1 Center in steals
#10 Center in Rebounds/ #5 in Off Reb
We could go advance metrics, but you get the idea.

I know, I know...you shouldn't take bench minutes (15.7mpg), expand, and extrapolate. No need to throw me some 1980s reference.

Just going by the eye test, most of his boneheaded stuff rears its head when he plays tentative/short minutes with the hook waiting for him. He's young (but has put in the gym work) and needs a coach to believe in him. I'd roll the dice on his upside, bet that his non-ball dominant style but complementary skills would greatly benefit JayCrew (much like Smart).

Brad could easily get him 22-24mpg (at the expense of TT) and if CBS still wants to go double BIG it should be Theis/TL.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't think you can look at one game's usage and declare that the hip is not an issue.
It’s not one game. His mpg, albeit sss, is greater on 0 days rest then on 1, 2 and 3 days. No load mgmt with day off......and even higher min. It doesn’t pass my smell test.