I Believe in Time Lord...Why Can't You?

[benhogan]

Tacko Time?

Ugh TL missing important development time. Yes, IMO on Tacko in small doses initially

This doesn't sound great in regards to TL, counting on him is a fools errand at this point. Keep him as deep depth, since he's dirt cheap BUT the guy barely plays as is and gets injured quite easily.

Experiment with VP and Tacko for 5mpg clips over the next 8 weeks while waiting for the buyout market for a banger to develop.

Danny should keep tabs on Noel if OKC Poeltl, if the Spurs become a seller.

Jakob Poeltl, my new cheap BIG binky

 

[NomarsFool]

That's very disappointing because he had shown some nice things this year. I don't think Tacko is ready for the NBA. Brad seems completely uninterested in letting VP see non-garbage minutes. Obviously, we have no idea what VP shows in practice, but it's time to either let him play 10-15 minutes a game or they are going to need to find someone else who can.

 

[radsoxfan]

Bone edema just means bone inflammation. Can happen from just about anything, so that alone doesn't tell us much. Just that whatever is going on is significant enough to affect the bone (rather than just overlying soft tissues).

Generally speaking will happen with any bone contusion, stress injury, fracture, arthritis, infection, etc. Certain things happen more often at certain location, but they didn't give any hints there.

Common things being common... he probably has a bone contusion, stress injury, or labral tear/cartilage damage (possibly from impingement) leading to underlying bone changes. I doubt we will get too much more info so just hope he doesn't have a hip like IT.

 

[TripleOT]

We won't know if Tacko can handle NBA minutes until he gets NBA minutes. Edwards is getting real minutes, and he's horrible. I can't imagine Tacko being any more exploitable than Edwards. At least he can set high picks and defend the rim.

 

[benhogan]

We won't know if Tacko can handle NBA minutes until he gets NBA minutes. Edwards is getting real minutes, and he's horrible. I can't imagine Tacko being any more exploitable than Edwards. At least he can set high picks and defend the rim.

yep. Carsen/Grant have been less than impressive, and the team hasn't completely fallen apart. So give VP and Tacko some minutes and see what happens.

Brad really doesn't ask a lot from the 5 on offense, other then set screens/roll/tip outs. He can do that.
If Tacko can deter/alter shots at the rim when he's on the floor and handle bigger Centers he could earn minutes and eventually be the 3rd/4th string Center on this team.

I'm sure we'll get the standard, "he can't play at the NBA level", from the naysayers. Let's be clear, this is just a test. No one is saying he will be playing high leverage minutes to start. If he's not ready, ship him back to Maine. Then Danny can sift through the buyout market or make a deal. We'll need depth at the 5, those guys seem to get injured quite a bit.

 

[Imbricus]

I'm with benhogan. Why not give Tacko a few minutes here and there, as a test, especially with Time Lord out? At some point this season, Danny is going to have to make the call whether or not to keep investing in Tacko. If you can't tell anything about centers from G League stats (as many here insist), then why not see if the kid can make any kind of impact at the NBA level?

 

[BigSoxFan]

I'm with benhogan. Why not give Tacko a few minutes here and there, as a test, especially with Time Lord out? At some point this season, Danny is going to have to make the call whether or not to keep investing in Tacko. If you can't tell anything about centers from G League stats (as many here insist), then why not see if the kid can make any kind of impact at the NBA level?

Agreed. I’d like to put him on the 2018 Time Lord plan, which seems to have worked well.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Agreed. I’d like to put him on the 2018 Time Lord plan, which seems to have worked well.

Can't hurt. Theis will get worn to a nub playing too many minutes. And Kanter, while pleasantly surprising against the Embiids of the world, is no defensive savior. Tacko can sub a few minutes here and there. We don't need offense from the 5.

 

[steveluck7]

Bone edema just means bone inflammation. Can happen from just about anything, so that alone doesn't tell us much. Just that whatever is going on is significant enough to affect the bone (rather than just overlying soft tissues).

Generally speaking will happen with any bone contusion, stress injury, fracture, arthritis, infection, etc. Certain things happen more often at certain location, but they didn't give any hints there.

Common things being common... he probably has a bone contusion, stress injury, or labral tear/cartilage damage (possibly from impingement) leading to underlying bone changes. I doubt we will get too much more info so just hope he doesn't have a hip like IT.

I’d like to take a break from the Tacko talk to thank for this info!

 

[chilidawg]

I'm with benhogan. Why not give Tacko a few minutes here and there, as a test, especially with Time Lord out? At some point this season, Danny is going to have to make the call whether or not to keep investing in Tacko. If you can't tell anything about centers from G League stats (as many here insist), then why not see if the kid can make any kind of impact at the NBA level?

Tacko strikes me as a guy who will benefit more from regular playing time in the G league this year than sporadic minutes in the NBA. I watched some of a Maine game the other day and he wasn't impressive. Struggled to finish anything that wasn't right at the rim, and was repeatedly late on close outs. We have VP to feed some occasional minutes as well, I think that's a better use of time right now.

G League stats may not tell you much, but watching film certainly ought to tell you something.

 

[lovegtm]

Tacko strikes me as a guy who will benefit more from regular playing time in the G league this year than sporadic minutes in the NBA. I watched some of a Maine game the other day and he wasn't impressive. Struggled to finish anything that wasn't right at the rim, and was repeatedly late on close outs. We have VP to feed some occasional minutes as well, I think that's a better use of time right now.

G League stats may not tell you much, but watching film certainly ought to tell you something.

I agree with this. He hasn't really popped in Maine (eye test), and needs a lot more work.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Tacko strikes me as a guy who will benefit more from regular playing time in the G league this year than sporadic minutes in the NBA. I watched some of a Maine game the other day and he wasn't impressive. Struggled to finish anything that wasn't right at the rim, and was repeatedly late on close outs. We have VP to feed some occasional minutes as well, I think that's a better use of time right now.

G League stats may not tell you much, but watching film certainly ought to tell you something.

No doubt that Tacko is lost on defense at times, but what we don't know is what VP will give us. SSS and all, but the latter looks like a shorter Tacko who can hit an open 15 footer. At least Tacko materially affects shots.

Tldr-they are both white flags, whose main utility is preventing Kanter/Theis burnout.

 

[TripleOT]

I watched Tacko earlier in the G League season and he looked good. Maybe this recent injury is the reason why he hasn't impressed recently.

 

[chilidawg]

I guess it is Tacko Time:

https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/12/17/21026083/boston-celtics-vincent-poirier-fractured-right-pinkie-out-at-least-six-weeks

 

[NomarsFool]

Oy. Taking a page out of TL's book to always get injured right when there is an opportunity for more playing time.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Tacko strikes me as a guy who will benefit more from regular playing time in the G league this year than sporadic minutes in the NBA. I watched some of a Maine game the other day and he wasn't impressive. Struggled to finish anything that wasn't right at the rim, and was repeatedly late on close outs. We have VP to feed some occasional minutes as well, I think that's a better use of time right now.

G League stats may not tell you much, but watching film certainly ought to tell you something.

Tacko not in the greatest of cardio shape and I honestly think he'd get run off the court. I'm not sure he'll ever be much more than a novelty but then again, he was undrafted.

And G League stats do tell us something, just not what we want to know. The reason Edwards, Tacko, Waters, Nader, and Dozier dominate the G league is because they are fringe NBA talents. They should be dominating the G league. If they weren't, it should be a serious red flag.

 

[Jimbodandy]

That's some pinky injury.

No TL or VP = some Tacko. Not necessarily a lot of Tacko, but I can't imagine even CBS can get by for multiple weeks with DT, EK, and GW only.

 

[benhogan]

VP and TL both out, this is exactly why you need to add cheap depth at the 5. These guys are sitting ducks in the lane for every wing trying to get downhill.

Tacko stats at G-League have been good.
He passed the first test of SL/pre-season.
Now he has passed his 2nd test, the G-League.

The Celtics will survive a few December/January games with Tacko playing sporadic minutes as the 4th string Center (Theis, Enis, GWill). The hand wringing about young player development is comical around here.

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1629605/

 

[Van Everyman]

I guess it is Tacko Time:

https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/12/17/21026083/boston-celtics-vincent-poirier-fractured-right-pinkie-out-at-least-six-weeks

It is Tuesday.

TL has looked promising in limited minutes, Hercule Poirot less so, but I'm excited to see what they do with this. GWill seems like he may be the biggest beneficiary of this -- he had a solid start to the season, then dipped when his shot wasn't falling, is possibly on the upswing now.

 

[ifmanis5]

Classic Timelord
View: https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1208191168112148481

 

[mikeot]

Classic Timelord
View: https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1208191168112148481

Made my day.

 

[chilidawg]

Wow, dude's a classic stoner.

 

[benhogan]

Might be time to compare TL (or VP) to Chriss.

One thing you can check off in favor of Chriss is health. He played 82 games his rookie year, 72games in year 2 & 86 games last season (multiple teams added to his regular-season?) TL's injury history has moved past bad luck in my book.

That would be me, naturally, but that's cos I kinda know what I'm talking about where GS is concerned (at least relatively speaking, haha). The Warriors from top to bottom loved Quese, who at age 22 was having a really good season:

(Per 36)
14.9 points on .561 TS
11.0 rebounds
3.8 assists
1.2 steals
1.8 blocks

Other players this season averaging 14-11-3 per 36 in over 600 minutes played: Giannis, Towns, Embiid, Jokic, Sabonis, Vucevic, Adebayo, Adams, Love, Plumlee. That's the complete list.

Literally nobody wanted to waive him (and apparently there was much internal debate in the FO about his waiving); but as I noted, there was an impending roster crunch with the pro days on Lee's and Bowman's two-way contracts coming to an end, the hard cap tying their hands, and Chriss the only player on the team without a guaranteed contract. There were plenty of other guys who had been much less good than Chriss, but they were all on guaranteed deals that would have required trading.

In any case, it's a straw man that I thought the Ws could get draft picks for him. Just the opposite: I saw the writing on the wall with his contract status and brought him up as a potentially great, cheap C option on the Celtics if/when he had to be cut loose. I still think he's that — pretty comparable to Daniel Theis in that he's a bit undersized for a C, but a really skilled overall player (decent-to-good shooter, passer, rebounder, shotblocker, and solidly switchable). With more athleticism and upside than Theis. Go get him!

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chrisma01.html

 

[NomarsFool]

He was supposed to be seeing a specialist either yesterday or today. Hopefully there will be some update soon.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

Reevaluated in another three weeks. Not great.

View: https://twitter.com/BDCCeltics/status/1215052125853683717

 

[HowBoutDemSox]

Reevaluated in another three weeks. Not great.

View: https://twitter.com/BDCCeltics/status/1215052125853683717

Not expected back until after the All-Star break:
View: https://twitter.com/celtics/status/1217572471332798464

 

[NomarsFool]

TimeLord, Celtics nation turns its lonely eyes to you. You are exactly what this team needs (at least some of it).

 

[NomarsFool]

Brad Stevens on Robert Williams: “We’ve gotten even more good news, we’re going to really start pushing him after the All-Star break. He’s going to start practicing with us after the All-Star break. Hopefully he’ll come back soon thereafter."

If they have a lot of hope, maybe this means it is less likely they deal for big depth.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Brad Stevens on Robert Williams: “We’ve gotten even more good news, we’re going to really start pushing him after the All-Star break. He’s going to start practicing with us after the All-Star break. Hopefully he’ll come back soon thereafter."

If they have a lot of hope, maybe this means it is less likely they deal for big depth.

I think at this point you have to conservatively assume zero production from TL. Can’t rely on this guy to stay healthy. If he is come playoff time, great, but I’m not banking on it.

 

[benhogan]

I think at this point you have to conservatively assume zero production from TL. Can’t rely on this guy to stay healthy. If he is come playoff time, great, but I’m not banking on it.

I've waved the 2020 TL white flag also. Great, he comes back in 3-weeks rusty as all hell in limited minutes. Then he stubs his toe outside the TD Garden which leads to bunions, out another month. I'm not banking on him this season either.

I'm fine with Danny keeping TL on the roster, but you can't also waste a spot on VP then if Brad feels he's unplayable*. Danny should still look to add a cheap 5 as injury insurance for Theis/Kanter.

*Maybe VP will shock us tonight, if he shows us anything positive in short minutes, maybe Danny opts to wait until the buyout market shapes up.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I've waved the 2020 TL white flag also. Great, he comes back in 3-weeks rusty as all hell in limited minutes. Then he stubs his toe outside the TD Garden which leads to bunions, out another month. I'm not banking on him this season either.

I'm fine with Danny keeping TL on the roster, but you can't also waste a spot on VP then if Brad feels he's unplayable*. Danny should still look to add a cheap 5 as injury insurance for Theis/Kanter.

*Maybe VP will shock us tonight, if he shows us anything positive in short minutes, maybe Danny opts to wait until the buyout market shapes up.

Agreed. I’m also not throwing away a late 1st round pick on a marginal player. If we can use one to nab a guy like Bertans, I’m all in.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Brad Stevens on Robert Williams: “We’ve gotten even more good news, we’re going to really start pushing him after the All-Star break. He’s going to start practicing with us after the All-Star break. Hopefully he’ll come back soon thereafter."

If they have a lot of hope, maybe this means it is less likely they deal for big depth.

This is also what you say if you have no hope, why show your cards?

 

[lovegtm]

Forget future projections, team-building considerations, performance...I just want to watch him play again.

View: https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1226588165592494080?s=20

 

[NomarsFool]

I can't wait to have some more depth at the 5. Kanter has talked about being banged up and good really use some time off (I guess almost all of them have the ASB - but whatever). I think this will really help.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Forget future projections, team-building considerations, performance...I just want to watch him play again.

View: https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1226588165592494080?s=20

This is how I feel. Just a really fun player to watch and one we really haven’t had as a Celtic in a while. Stay healthy, TL!

 

[mikeot]

Ohellyes.

View: https://twitter.com/JaredWeissNBA/status/1226585190245466118

 

[benhogan]

Heh, I think they are pretty comparable but TL probably has more value. TL would have been a much better example to use than Bam. Chriss and TL should probably have similar value but they don't.

edit: TL has shown flashes of his potential and that he may be injury prone. He also has the same make up issues as Chriss whether people want to pretend otherwise or not. It's how he got his nickname.

Comparable is being generous. Why would TL have more value that Chriss?

Staying healthy and being able to play NBA minutes at the 5 is a skill. The injuries are piling up over a 2yr career, some in-game, some non-contact, some in practice. It's past the unlucky stage IMO. The Celtics don't ask a lot from their centers when they are on the floor, showing up/competing physically is probably their #1 job.
BUT putting that aside, what offensive skills, besides open dunks/layups (5 FGs made over 5' in his career ) does TL have? He's not particularly good at setting screens. Clearly not a high IQ player. Doesn't possess a positive on/off # in the scant minutes he's played. Some try to claim he is some sort of great passer, but Quese has a higher assist/36 then TL. He gets lost on defense, his high block count even came down this season with increased minutes. It's difficult to use adv stats with TL since he has embarrassingly played so little.

I get that TL was a Celtic 1st rounder, but that has to be some serious prospect humping saying he has more value than a guy that has played 5x as many NBA games while being the same age. Especially with Quese doing things on a nightly basis that TL has never done once in 51 NBA games, in summer league or in a pre-season game.

This past summer I gave TL the benefit of the doubt as far as the injury luck. BUT if he can't stay healthy the last 25 games and compete physically then his valuable roster spot should be up for grabs next season.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Comparable is being generous. Why would TL have more value that Chriss?

Staying healthy and being able to play NBA minutes at the 5 is a skill. The injuries are piling up over a 2yr career, some in-game, some non-contact, some in practice. It's past the unlucky stage IMO. The Celtics don't ask a lot from their centers when they are on the floor, showing up/competing physically is probably their #1 job.
BUT putting that aside, what offensive skills, besides open dunks/layups (5 FGs made over 5' in his career ) does TL have? He's not particularly good at setting screens. Clearly not a high IQ player. Doesn't possess a positive on/off # in the scant minutes he's played. Some try to claim he is some sort of great passer, but Quese has a higher assist/36 then TL. He gets lost on defense, his high block count even came down this season with increased minutes. It's difficult to use adv stats with TL since he has embarrassingly played so little.

I get that TL was a Celtic 1st rounder, but that has to be some serious prospect humping saying he has more value than a guy that has played 5x as many NBA games while being the same age. Especially with Quese doing things on a nightly basis that TL has never done once in 51 NBA games, in summer league or in a pre-season game.

This past summer I gave TL the benefit of the doubt as far as the injury luck. BUT if he can't stay healthy the last 25 games and compete physically then his valuable roster spot should be up for grabs next season.

I doubt you'd get much more than a 2nd rounder for either one of them anyway. And honestly, who cares if he's played 5 times as many games at the same age if all those games were garbage.

edit: To put it another way, I don't think either one of them has much value at all.

 

[benhogan]

I doubt you'd get much more than a 2nd rounder for either one of them anyway. And honestly, who cares if he's played 5 times as many games at the same age if all those games were garbage.

Well, I care and so should the Celtics, they could use depth at the 5 as we watched Harrell dunk all over Grant the other night. Quese plays, competes, and now has extensive NBA experience against other bigs. He has a much greater chance to develop as a 22yr old then a guy that doesn't play. I'd much rather have him on the Celtic roster then TL.

TL has zero trade value since you can easily find healthy, experienced 5s.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Well, I care and so should the Celtics, they could use depth at the 5 as we watched Harrell dunk all over Grant the other night. Quese plays, competes, and now has extensive NBA experience against other bigs. He has a much greater chance to develop as a 22yr old then a guy that doesn't play. I'd much rather have him on the Celtic roster then TL.

TL has zero trade value since you can easily find healthy, experienced 5s.

Right like Chriss. So you basically agree neither one of them really have any value. Seems comparable to me.

 

[benhogan]

Right like Chriss. So you basically agree neither one of them really have any value. Seems comparable to me.

I don't really care about "trade value" right now since the trade market is closed. I care about on-court performance since the C's could use depth at the 5. So I don't agree with you. Chriss has MUCH more value then TL since he can play.

Even when TL can play he's never been as good as Quese is right now. If I was to project out I'd say Quese would have more value down the road

 

[Montana Fan]

Stating the obvious but It’s truly unfortunate that RWiii has been out the last 10 weeks. His development has been greatly hindered. Kanter and Theis have both missed games. I figure he would have played 10-12 mpg in almost all of them and Brad would have a good gauge as to his value postseason. As it stands now if he is healthy for the playoffs his use will be to provide a spark as opposed to being in the center rotation. He must be frustrated.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

So I don't agree with you. Chriss has MUCH more value then TL since he can play.

Chriss has only played because his games don't matter. As I said in the other thread, switch TL and Chriss and I don't know how much Chriss plays for BOS.

Every team in the NBA could have had Chriss for almost nothing. Everyone passed.

Both guys are lottery tickets right now but teams definitely need those.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Well, I care and so should the Celtics, they could use depth at the 5 as we watched Harrell dunk all over Grant the other night. Quese plays, competes, and now has extensive NBA experience against other bigs. He has a much greater chance to develop as a 22yr old then a guy that doesn't play. I'd much rather have him on the Celtic roster then TL.

TL has zero trade value since you can easily find healthy, experienced 5s.

I honestly don't think that TL or Chriss are or would be any better against Harrell than GW, and Grant played fine the other night. But I agree that taking up space is usually the last skill to deteriorate, and TL can't do that while stapled to the training table. Point Chriss.

 

[Sam Ray Not]

TL is your Quese. GW is your Paschall. But the Warriors got the better one on both those counts imho (though GW is a couple years younger than Paschanimal, so may have a higher ceiling).

 

[TripleOT]

12 minutes a night from TL will be most helpful the last third of the season. Kanter could barely walk last game after falling on his posterior, and Brad had to use him when Theis fouled out. Hopefully he can get back and actually concentrate enough to earn some minutes. Besides getting banged up all the time, TL makes a lot of mental errors.

PS: I spent the minutes the Celtics were on the clock before picking TL screaming "Mitchell Robinson."

 

[benhogan]

Chriss has only played because his games don't matter. As I said in the other thread, switch TL and Chriss and I don't know how much Chriss plays for BOS.

Every team in the NBA could have had Chriss for almost nothing. Everyone passed.

Both guys are lottery tickets right now but teams definitely need those.

BUT I have a good idea how much TL would play for the Dubs, and that would be next to nothing. The poor guy can't stay healthy playing the 5 in the NBA, while being handled with kid gloves by the Celtics. Why on earth would he be able to play big minutes elsewhere when he can't even handle small minutes here? If TL comes back in March he'll never make it to the playoffs, just a matter of time before he tweaks something else*.

Like I said at the time, it's a shame the C's didn't grab Chriss for free or trade a 2nd for WCS. The Celtics 5 depth is sketchy with a banged-up Kanter, always injured TL and several rookies (GW, VP, TF).

I can't really speak for the rest of the NBA, but a lot of those teams are stuck with many (sometimes expensive) 5s. Centers just aren't in high demand and why you can nab them for next to nothing (or sign them cheap this summer).


*I'd love to be wrong here and feel free to remind me if TL is playing/productive in the playoffs.

PS: I spent the minutes the Celtics were on the clock before picking TL screaming "Mitchell Robinson."

I defended the TL draft pick last summer but not anymore. Agreed, the Celtics whiffed here.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

27th pick in the draft. Probably the expected outcome.

I kinda liked when rosters were 12 because then there'd be 0 discussion on a lot of the players we discuss.

 

[benhogan]

27th pick in the draft. Probably the expected outcome.

I kinda liked when rosters were 12 because then there'd be 0 discussion on a lot of the players we discuss.

150 career points after 1.5 seasons...better off trading that pick, if that's your expected outcome

 

[Cesar Crespo]

150 career points after 1.5 seasons...better off trading that pick, if that's your expected outcome

22 more than 28th pick RJ Hunter. Most of us were perfectly fine trading any of our 3 picks for Bertans. If you are a competing team, you probably are far better off trading the pick.

In recent years, teams are getting more value out of 2nd rounders though. I think that's partly because teams are signing max guys and filling out the roster with rookies and part because rosters are now 17 and not 12.