Hypo(thetical) No Soto? D'oh! Go fo' ...

If Soto's out of the picture, the guy I want the Red Sox to sign is ...


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E5 Yaz

polka king
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Pretty simple here. If the Red Sox don't sign Soto, choose the free agent you most want the team to sign.
Sasaki is not listed because it's a unique situation.
Crochet, of course, would be a trade
 

simplicio

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I'll vote Fried here if contract projections are close to accurate. I'd also be okay with Burnes or possibly Snell.

Then get a real catcher, get a high end bullpen arm and spring can't come soon enough.
 

Hank Scorpio

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I voted Fried, but in hindsight, maybe I should have said Teoscar Hernandez.

I’m hoping for Soto and one of the big-3 SPs. Of the big three SP, I prefer Fried and it really isn’t close.

If we don’t land Soto, then my hope shifts to Teoscar Hernandez + Max Fried.
 

Ale Xander

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Since we have Devers I vote Adames (over Bregman) based on position, and if Mayer is ready I move one of them to 2B (sorry Trev)
Buehler (value) and even Fried are attractive if healthy
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I chose Buehler, and at least so far, I'm alone. I do want to clarify I don't want him to be the only guy. I just think he has the potential to be the best bargain on the market.
 

LogansDad

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I'll vote Fried here if contract projections are close to accurate. I'd also be okay with Burnes or possibly Snell.

Then get a real catcher, get a high end bullpen arm and spring can't come soon enough.
This is exactly where I'm at, with the emphasis on "get a real catcher". The Connor Wong era has to end.
 

Cassvt2023

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I went Fried as well. If/when they lose out on Soto, I don't think it makes sense to pivot to Teoscar, as his OBP is around 100 points lower. With Campbell's meteoric/Mookie-like rise thru the system as a mid round draft pick, who's to say that Kristian Campbell isn't the solution for some RH power? He hits the ball really, really hard.
 

BigJimEd

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It's multiple. They should be looking to sign at least one if the pitcher regardless of Soto.
 

Van Everyman

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This is exactly where I'm at, with the emphasis on "get a real catcher". The Connor Wong era has to end.
What am I missing here? I get that Wong’s physical type isn’t a prototypical catcher and that he’s maybe not an elite framer. But when did he become a “His era has to end!” player?

I did see this article which highlights how his framing, blocking and pop time declined last season. But that mostly makes me think he maybe wore down last year, not that he’s some fatal flaw. Is there some reason we can’t just wait for Teel to take over the primary role here?
 

LogansDad

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What am I missing here? I get that Wong’s physical type isn’t a prototypical catcher and that he’s maybe not an elite framer. But when did he become a “His era has to end!” player?

I did see this article which highlights how his framing, blocking and pop time declined last season. But that mostly makes me think he maybe wore down last year, not that he’s some fatal flaw. Is there some reason we can’t just wait for Teel to take over the primary role here?
I don't really want to poison another thread with it, but Wong is among the worst defensive catchers in the league. According to Statcast, he is 9th percentile in framing and (more importantly IMHO, with some sort of challenge system coming soon) 3rd percentile in blocking. His pop time historically has been okay, but in 2024 dropped to 63rd percentile, which has contributed to a similar decline in his ability to control the running game.

Moreover, outside of his molten May/June of 2024 (which, yes, has to be taken into account as upside), his offense was pedestrian at best, driven by K rates approaching 30% from July through September.

Bottom line, I think he is a backup catcher at best. His defense is bad enough that it affects the entire pitching staff, and his offense is not remotely close to good enough to compensate for that. His one good skill, his speed, only matters if his OBP is higher than .300, which it wasn't throughout most of the season.

It might be that his wife having their baby in June wreaked havoc on his ability to be a baseball player, but I think if the team goes into the season counting on him to carry the load at catcher then I really think they are setting their pitching staff up for failure.
 

E5 Yaz

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I don't really want to poison another thread with it, but Wong is among the worst defensive catchers in the league. According to Statcast, he is 9th percentile in framing and (more importantly IMHO, with some sort of challenge system coming soon) 3rd percentile in blocking. His pop time historically has been okay, but in 2024 dropped to 63rd percentile, which has contributed to a similar decline in his ability to control the running game.

Moreover, outside of his molten May/June of 2024 (which, yes, has to be taken into account as upside), his offense was pedestrian at best, driven by K rates approaching 30% from July through September.

Bottom line, I think he is a backup catcher at best. His defense is bad enough that it affects the entire pitching staff, and his offense is not remotely close to good enough to compensate for that. His one good skill, his speed, only matters if his OBP is higher than .300, which it wasn't throughout most of the season.

It might be that his wife having their baby in June wreaked havoc on his ability to be a baseball player, but I think if the team goes into the season counting on him to carry the load at catcher then I really think they are setting their pitching staff up for failure.
Admit it ... you just don't like the beard
 

LogansDad

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I voted Other: Bobby Dalbec.
Yeah, but your goals are nefarious. You are not to be trusted.

Also, he's going to end up with the Yankees and hit 40 opposite field home runs because of his inability to fully catch up to velocity.

This is my nightmare.
 

simplicio

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Nah, Bobby's career arc clearly involves a minors deal somewhere, getting a new glasses prescription and turning a random callup into 4 years of .870 ops.
 

BigJimEd

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That's a different poll and/or thread
I guess but if the Sox don't sign Soto, I hope they sign more than one of these guys.
I'd be very surprised and disappointed if they didn't target signing 2 to 3 players on the list.
 

Cassvt2023

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Well, Max Fried has significantly more votes than everyone else on the list combined. I sure hope it happens. Even though a trade for Crochet would be great, I could live with this:

Fried
Houck
Bello
Giolito
Crawford

Criswell
Fitts
Preister
Dobbins
 

Beomoose

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Sign Fried and Teo. Or sign Fried and trade for Vladdy with an extension done before the season.
 

loneredseat

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Teo or Adames?
Adames offers a lot of infield flexibility. And allows Devers to spend some time at DH (or 1b).
 

pdub

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Burnes or Fried. I think the offense will be fine as is, I think a more pressing need is getting a bonafide ace.
 

mfried

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I voted Fried, but in hindsight, maybe I should have said Teoscar Hernandez.

I’m hoping for Soto and one of the big-3 SPs. Of the big three SP, I prefer Fried and it really isn’t close.

If we don’t land Soto, then my hope shifts to Teoscar Hernandez + Max Fried.
Fried and Hernandez or Adames plus Tanner Scott seem like a package that could lead to post-season.
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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I voted "other" simply because like most people on here, Fried would be my choice.

However, I don't think it makes sense to sign an extreme ground ball pitcher (he was second in the game in GB% last year behind Valdez) and to have the same basic configuration of the infield defense that has been horrid for several years straight, and I subscribe to the Einstein theory that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Fried with Casas (1b), lets say Campbell (2b), the 60 games you'll get from Story and then Rafaela at SS and Devers at 3b is a recipe for making Max Fried hate his teammates for the next 5 to 6 years. So my "other" vote is to say "Fried and Adames" (since Bregman seems to have priced himself out of the Sox mindset if Houston is offering around $160m and they're still about $40m apart.

Fried (5/$150m/$30m is my guess), Adames (6/$150m/$25m seems about right), trade Yoshida for whatever salary relief you can get (I'm guessing someone would take on the equivalent of 3/$18m/$6m), Kirby Yates (2/$20m/$10m) and I'd feel really good about the off-season.


*If the Red Sox aren't prepared to drastically shift their infield, then Snell would be a better choice than Fried as he doesn't have the extreme GB numbers.*
 

Fishy1

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I voted "other" simply because like most people on here, Fried would be my choice.

However, I don't think it makes sense to sign an extreme ground ball pitcher (he was second in the game in GB% last year behind Valdez) and to have the same basic configuration of the infield defense that has been horrid for several years straight, and I subscribe to the Einstein theory that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Fried with Casas (1b), lets say Campbell (2b), the 60 games you'll get from Story and then Rafaela at SS and Devers at 3b is a recipe for making Max Fried hate his teammates for the next 5 to 6 years. So my "other" vote is to say "Fried and Adames" (since Bregman seems to have priced himself out of the Sox mindset if Houston is offering around $160m and they're still about $40m apart.

Fried (5/$150m/$30m is my guess), Adames (6/$150m/$25m seems about right), trade Yoshida for whatever salary relief you can get (I'm guessing someone would take on the equivalent of 3/$18m/$6m), Kirby Yates (2/$20m/$10m) and I'd feel really good about the off-season.


*If the Red Sox aren't prepared to drastically shift their infield, then Snell would be a better choice than Fried as he doesn't have the extreme GB numbers.*
There's a few assumptions underlying this, I think, that aren't totally fair 1) That Story will continue to miss the volume of games that he has (which maybe he will and maybe he won't) but also that if that happens 2) that Campbell can't play SS (although reports from the FO are that they are confident that he can and defensive scouting indicates he's been good there), 3) that Mayer won't be ready or capable sometime this year (totally possible!) and 4) that Ceddanne will continue to be the error machine he was forthe first two months last year (which others have attributed to rookie yips, and I think that's reasonable).

Could all four of those things be true? Maybe, but I really doubt it.

In terms of depth right now we've got Story/Campbell/Ceddanne/Mayer ready or nearly ready, and at 2B we have Grissom/Campbell/Hamilton/Romy/Ceddanne/Sogard/Meidroth.

Which is to say we shouldn't have to deal with Valdez at 2B ever again, and that there's plenty of good defensive depth there. In fact there's enough depth there to move Devers off 3B if you think one of the above crew can handle SS/3B, moving Story to third (or 2B, where he excelled).

I think Fried would really help this team, and the last thing we need in Fenway is another flyball pitcher. We've seen what pitching there did to the psyches of Pivetta and Crawford.
 

Saints Rest

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I guess but if the Sox don't sign Soto, I hope they sign more than one of these guys.
I'd be very surprised and disappointed if they didn't target signing 2 to 3 players on the list.
This is where I am (I was hoping the poll allowed for multiple answers). If they are serious about Soto, that would mean they are already budgeting $50-60M AAV to new acquisitions. That should cover at least two guys on this list.
 

RS2004foreever

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There is a case for the minimalist approach. Keep the prospects and sign Eovaldi and a reliever.
So the rotation is
Eovaldi
Goilito
Houck
Bello
Crawford

Play Anthony or Campell and that is it. You have committed nothing long-term.
It is not the one I would necessarily choose btw.
 

HangingW/ScottCooper

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I think with or without Soto, they're going after at least one major starting pitcher. I suspect that signing Soto would take Burnes off the table. If they don't sign Soto than I'm guessing Burnes is where they pivot. Offensively, Teoscar makes the most sense as a Soto alternative, but they could see it as Teoscar and Adames.

What I don't want to see is some of the illogical roster construction that we've seen over the last few years where you had guys playing out of position, holes up the middle, that sort of thing. The good thing is, we have enough on the roster already where the biggest thing is going to be sorting out ABs vs. LHP. Adding a single offensive player that hits Lefties well will largely mitigate that problem. Adding two of those players would give you a very balanced lineup.

With all that said, Adames actually hits LHP fairly poorly (.623 OPS last year). Considering he will probably cost $20-25 mil per year, I'd rather roll the dice with Romy vs. LHP. Teoscar on the other hand makes a ton of sense. Another option would actually be old friend Jose Iglesias. He hits Lefties very well and we know what we can do with the glove. With all that said, he, Rafaela and Romy wouldn't make sense on the same roster.
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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There's a few assumptions underlying this, I think, that aren't totally fair 1) That Story will continue to miss the volume of games that he has (which maybe he will and maybe he won't) but also that if that happens 2) that Campbell can't play SS (although reports from the FO are that they are confident that he can and defensive scouting indicates he's been good there), 3) that Mayer won't be ready or capable sometime this year (totally possible!) and 4) that Ceddanne will continue to be the error machine he was forthe first two months last year (which others have attributed to rookie yips, and I think that's reasonable).

Could all four of those things be true? Maybe, but I really doubt it.

In terms of depth right now we've got Story/Campbell/Ceddanne/Mayer ready or nearly ready, and at 2B we have Grissom/Campbell/Hamilton/Romy/Ceddanne/Sogard/Meidroth.

Which is to say we shouldn't have to deal with Valdez at 2B ever again, and that there's plenty of good defensive depth there. In fact there's enough depth there to move Devers off 3B if you think one of the above crew can handle SS/3B, moving Story to third (or 2B, where he excelled).

I think Fried would really help this team, and the last thing we need in Fenway is another flyball pitcher. We've seen what pitching there did to the psyches of Pivetta and Crawford.
I actually think Rafaela would be a really solid defensive short-stop if they just had him work there all the time. As a super sub, I don't think he's going to get that focus. FWIW. I think it's fair to say that both assumptions around Mayer and Story are "unfair", in that its equally unfair of me to say "neither has played 100g the last 3 years, so they aren't going to going forward" while it's equally unfair to just assume they'll start being healthy since they haven't been in 3 seasons.

But I still think that even IN the possibility that Story remains healthy and effective, getting a ground ball machine with Devers and Casas at the corners is a recipe for disaster.



Or, put another way, if someone chooses to believe that Story will stay healthy (I don't) and one of Campbell / Grissom will provide us with a really good 2b option for the next 5 years (I do) and that you're going to stick with Devers at 3b and deal with the horrible defense and Casas at 1b (and I'll call that a question mark), that's more than fine.

But there it would still be an "other" vote for something like Snell as a fly ball pitcher and signing Teoscar Hernandez to DH, and could at least provide several things that Yoshida cannot including 1) not needing to be platooned; 2) power; 3) decent speed and 4) a good arm if forced to play the OF due to injury.
 
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Youkilis vs Wild

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Voted Fried. But I think the question is interesting on another front...namely, if they aren't giving out a $600 million+ deal to Soto, could they afford several of the options listed here? Something like Fried and Burnes would be a pretty aggressive (and, yes, risky) approach that I'd get excited about.
 

E5 Yaz

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Voted Fried. But I think the question is interesting on another front...namely, if they aren't giving out a $600 million+ deal to Soto, could they afford several of the options listed here?
Yes and no. Theoretically they can, but Soto is a unicorn free agent. You go above your means to try to get HIM, but you likely don't spend the same amount of money on 2-3 lesser-tier players
 

Fishy1

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I actually think Rafaela would be a really solid defensive short-stop if they just had him work there all the time. As a super sub, I don't think he's going to get that focus. FWIW. I think it's fair to say that both assumptions around Mayer and Story are "unfair", in that its equally unfair of me to say "neither has played 100g the last 3 years, so they aren't going to going forward" while it's equally unfair to just assume they'll start being healthy since they haven't been in 3 seasons.

But I still think that even IN the possibility that Story remains healthy and effective, getting a ground ball machine with Devers and Casas at the corners is a recipe for disaster.

Or, put another way, if you're going to stick with the infield as is, you're far better off signing Burnes or Snell. And if they choose to sign Snell and keep the infield as is, I wouldn't really complain (but then it becomes "other" for Snell and lets say Anthony Santander, while jettisoning Yoshida).
I don't disagree here--I do think it's possible these health concerns with Mayer or Story are serious! And I don't want Devers at 3B in the long-term. I don't really want him there in the short-term either. I don't want the infield configuration to stay the same, I just don't think we need to go outside the organization to change it. We can spend on pitching and improve the infield just by adjusting people's roles.

If Mayer/Story can't stay on the field, you've still got Campbell/Grissom/Romy/Hamilton/Ceddanne/Sogard/Meidroth. There's plenty of infield depth here that could cover these positions competently or better than competently.

Now, maybe, ultimately you're right and the best option is acquiring someone who can actually lock down third base. But I think there are internal avenues to accomplishing that.
 

chrisfont9

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There is a case for the minimalist approach. Keep the prospects and sign Eovaldi and a reliever.
So the rotation is
Eovaldi
Goilito
Houck
Bello
Crawford

Play Anthony or Campell and that is it. You have committed nothing long-term.
It is not the one I would necessarily choose btw.
The long term lineup
C Wong, Teel
1b Casas
2b Campbell
3b Devers
SS Mayer
LF Duran
CF Anthony
RF Abreu
UT: Rafaela

Earliest free agent: 2029 (Wong, Duran)

Of course, this also argues for buying all the shiny pitching objects
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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I don't disagree here--I do think it's possible these health concerns with Mayer or Story are serious! And I don't want Devers at 3B in the long-term. I don't really want him there in the short-term either. I don't want the infield configuration to stay the same, I just don't think we need to go outside the organization to change it. We can spend on pitching and improve the infield just by adjusting people's roles.

If Mayer/Story can't stay on the field, you've still got Campbell/Grissom/Romy/Hamilton/Ceddanne/Sogard/Meidroth. There's plenty of infield depth here that could cover these positions competently or better than competently.

Now, maybe, ultimately you're right and the best option is acquiring someone who can actually lock down third base. But I think there are internal avenues to accomplishing that.
This is fair.

Having 3 LH DHs, two of which are playing the field and one that provides no power and needs to be platooned is a horrible roster configuration though.

So I'd still say if you're going to go this route (@Fishy1 ), you're still better off spending on someone like Burnes or Snell that doesn't have such an extreme ground ball split, but YMMV and all.
 

Sox Pride

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All of the pitching - Burnes/Fried, Bueller/Severino Sasaki/Crochet - come on down.

I don't see spending the numbers discussed around Scott. I think Breslow finds better relief options that we aren't considering.
 

nvalvo

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I like him a lot as a player, but I wouldn't sign Teo Hernandez. After beating the drum for him last year when he didn't get a QO, I don't want to give up a pick to sign him now.
 

BaseballJones

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Fried, Eovaldi, a good RP, and Teoscar. Trade Yoshida (eating some $$) for a prospect. Try to upgrade at C but at least get a good LH hitting partner for Wong to hold the line until Teel arrives and saves the day.

C - Wong
1b - Casas
2b - Grissom
3b - Devers
SS - Story
LF - Hernandez
CF - Duran
RF - Abreu
DH - whomever; rotate
Bench - Catcher, Rafaela, Refsnyder, Campbell (might be the first guy up) or Hamilton

Lineup
1. Duran
2. Grissom
3. Devers
4. Hernandez
5. Casas
6. Story
7. Abreu
8. DH
9. Catcher

SP - Fried, Eovaldi, Bello, Houck, Crawford (Pitts, Criswell, Winckowski, et al in AAA; good depth)
RP - Whitlock, Slaten, Hendriks, Campbell, Weissert, Booser, good RP, Kelly

That team stands a pretty good chance of being pretty darned good.
 

Yo La Tengo

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Fried, Eovaldi, a good RP, and Teoscar. Trade Yoshida (eating some $$) for a prospect. Try to upgrade at C but at least get a good LH hitting partner for Wong to hold the line until Teel arrives and saves the day.

SP - Fried, Eovaldi, Bello, Houck, Crawford (Pitts, Criswell, Winckowski, et al in AAA; good depth)
RP - Whitlock, Slaten, Hendriks, Campbell, Weissert, Booser, good RP, Kelly

That team stands a pretty good chance of being pretty darned good.
Giolito will factor in there too, either from the start of spring or thereafter, which makes signing Eovaldi way less likely in this hypo. Is Soto signs elsewhere, I think it should be Fried, more than one good RP and then see how the team looks approaching the All-Star break.
 

BaseballJones

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Giolito will factor in there too, either from the start of spring or thereafter, which makes signing Eovaldi way less likely in this hypo. Is Soto signs elsewhere, I think it should be Fried, more than one good RP and then see how the team looks approaching the All-Star break.
Yep, forgot about him.
 

bressoud

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I don't disagree here--I do think it's possible these health concerns with Mayer or Story are serious! And I don't want Devers at 3B in the long-term. I don't really want him there in the short-term either. I don't want the infield configuration to stay the same, I just don't think we need to go outside the organization to change it. We can spend on pitching and improve the infield just by adjusting people's roles.

If Mayer/Story can't stay on the field, you've still got Campbell/Grissom/Romy/Hamilton/Ceddanne/Sogard/Meidroth. There's plenty of infield depth here that could cover these positions competently or better than competently.

Now, maybe, ultimately you're right and the best option is acquiring someone who can actually lock down third base. But I think there are internal avenues to accomplishing that.
I'll vote Fried here if contract projections are close to accurate. I'd also be okay with Burnes or possibly Snell.

Then get a real catcher, get a high end bullpen arm and spring can't come soon enough.
I voted "other" before I saw that Sasaki wasn't included. Henry's been adamant about long-term deals for pitchers over 30. Signing Sasaki or trading for Crochet gives them a cheap starter next year, and plenty of $$ to add a starter (or two), or two relievers (or three) that they need.
 

simplicio

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Sasaki is going wherever he feels like going. The difference in IFA pool sizes isn't going to be enough to sway him one way or another.
 

pdub

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If no Soto, I would sign Fried, Scott, and another bullpen piece. I would also go hard on Sasaki, though I suspect he'll sign with one of the Cali teams regardless. I think the offense will be fine with Casas and Story both returning.