How good is Patrice Bergeron?

allstonite

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Oct 27, 2010
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I had SportsHub on this afternoon and Adam Jones (I believe it was him) was ridiculing the idea that Bergeron was a HoFer. “He made three All-Star Games and never won a Hart.”

Adam Jones is a clown, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard a take as dumb as this one.
He should be run out of Boston for that take. Sports radio is ridiculous
 

Salem's Lot

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I had SportsHub on this afternoon and Adam Jones (I believe it was him) was ridiculing the idea that Bergeron was a HoFer. “He made three All-Star Games and never won a Hart.”

Adam Jones is a clown, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard a take as dumb as this one.
He’s a troll doing troll things. His opinions are worthless and a shameless attempt to generate angry callers.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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He’s a troll doing troll things. His opinions are worthless and a shameless attempt to generate angry callers.
There’s no doubt about that. But the way he framed it was so weird, he was comparing Bergeron to Patriots players. “If he goes in what about McGinnest?”

It was like I was having a fever dream.
 

wiffleballhero

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In the simulacrum
Bergeron is obviously a HOFer.

I can't even believe there are people who both care enough about hockey to make this argument but know so little that they in fact do so.
Talk radio must be a wild place. I am glad they don't have such things where I come from.
 

Red Right Ankle

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You can't help the era for which someone plays and I don't think 200 more games changes the argument around Bergeron.

I do think, though, that playing under heavily defensive first coaches for long periods has slanted the perception, but we don't know what Bergeron would be without it.

Just enjoy the ride and don't worry about what-ifs.
I think you are right - enjoy the ride and don't worry about the what ifs...

But...

200 more games at his career goal scoring pace puts Bergeron at or around 500 goals this year instead of just above 400. Only 5 guys have scored 500 and not made the Hall:

Keith Tkachuk (538 goals), Pat Verbeek (522 goals), Pierre Turgeon (515 goals), Jeremy Roenick (513 goals), and Peter Bondra (503 goals)

He would also have about 1200 points and only 4 players have not made the Hall with that many points.

None of those guys have the hardware Patrice has or the defensive and character rep.

Patrice is a 1st ballot HOFer regardless, but there is no room to hem and haw about it with 500 goals and 1200 points.
 

Marciano490

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Is the Hockey HoF particularly strict? Those are some big names to not be in.
 

Gammon_Clark

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Is the Hockey HoF particularly strict? Those are some big names to not be in.
I had the same thought. Does anyone have a good sense of the respective HoF in the 4 majors in the U.S.? Anecdotally, I’ve heard the NBA is the biggest joke, letting anyone with a pulse in, but the other 3, I really don’t have a sense of.
 

Marciano490

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NFL always struck me as easy for QBs and pretty tough for linemen.

Baseball seems to be trending easier. I feel like Roenick and Tkachuk are better than Baines who’s in and McGriff who isn’t but had a lesser career and didn’t hit the 500 milestone.
 

Jordu

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Bergeron is one of only 30 members of hockey’s triple gold club: As a member of Team Canada he won the IIHF 2004 World Championships and a gold medial at the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver. He won a Stanley Cup in 2011.

Oh, and he was on the team that won the 2005 World Junior Championship.
 

lexrageorge

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Is the Hockey HoF particularly strict? Those are some big names to not be in.
The Hockey Hall of Fame is probably middle of the pack in terms of difficulty of achieving induction. Those excluded players had some great counting stats, but the era in which they played matters as well, and none had much else to their game other than scoring goals. That's obviously a big part of the game, but not everything either.

Probably about the same as baseball HoF, aside from the idiocy that we see occasionally from the various special "veterans" committees (Harold Baines and Jack Morris in particular). Pro football HoF is difficult for players that are not QB's or star receivers, and it retains a dumb positional bias, especially against kickers.

I had the same thought. Does anyone have a good sense of the respective HoF in the 4 majors in the U.S.? Anecdotally, I’ve heard the NBA is the biggest joke, letting anyone with a pulse in, but the other 3, I really don’t have a sense of.
FYI, there is no "NBA Hall of Fame"; it's the "Basketball Hall of Fame". Springfield heavily weighs college and international achievements. Bill Walton made it thanks to the fact that his UCLA teams won the first 73 games he played in; Dino Radja is enshrined because of his outstanding career in the European leagues.

EDIT: Incidentally, one of the chief criticisms of the Hockey HoF is its almost exclusive focus on NHL players.
 
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Eddie Jurak

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The best Bruin player ever, also the best hockey player ever, is Bobby Orr.

Among Bruin greats, Bergeron is in that next tier down from Orr, which he shares with Bourque, Esposito, Bucyk, and Schmidt. All HoFers themselves. He, too, should be a HoFer.

A more interesting question would be whether there is a case for any other Bruins in that tier: Chara, Marchand, Pastrnak, Neely, Middleton are names I would consider. I don't think Middleton makes it, Marchand and Pastrnak are clearly on the way to making it though Pastrnak would need to re-sign. Also, I haven't thought about goalies at all in this.
 

lexrageorge

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The best Bruin player ever, also the best hockey player ever, is Bobby Orr.

Among Bruin greats, Bergeron is in that next tier down from Orr, which he shares with Bourque, Esposito, Bucyk, and Schmidt. All HoFers themselves. He, too, should be a HoFer.

A more interesting question would be whether there is a case for any other Bruins in that tier: Chara, Marchand, Pastrnak, Neely, Middleton are names I would consider. I don't think Middleton makes it, Marchand and Pastrnak are clearly on the way to making it though Pastrnak would need to re-sign. Also, I haven't thought about goalies at all in this.
Throne: Orr

Inner Sanctum: Bourque, Espo, Bucyk, Milt Schmidt, Eddie Shore, Frank Brimsek. Bergeron belongs here. I would put Chara as well. Marchand is 6th all time among Bruins for goals and 7th for points, so agree he will end up here.

Outer Sanctum: Neely, Middleton, Dit Clapper, Lionel Hitchman, Bobby Bauer, Woody Dumart, Ratelle, Park, O'Reilly, Cheevers. Pasta is currently here because of his 533 games. I would also add Krejci (6th in assists, 9th in points), Hodge (10th in points), Cooney Weiland, Cashman (9th in goals 8th in points), and Tiny Thompson. Rask and Tim Thomas belong here as well. One could argue for breaking this group further into 2 levels. And I honestly do not know exactly where to put the HoF'ers from the early years.

Honorable mention to Reggie Lemelin for breaking the Montreal curse in 1988 (you kind of had to be there to appreciate why this is a big deal).
 

Eddie Jurak

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Throne: Orr

Inner Sanctum: Bourque, Espo, Bucyk, Milt Schmidt, Eddie Shore, Frank Brimsek. Bergeron belongs here. I would put Chara as well. Marchand is 6th all time among Bruins for goals and 7th for points, so agree he will end up here.

Outer Sanctum: Neely, Middleton, Dit Clapper, Lionel Hitchman, Bobby Bauer, Woody Dumart, Ratelle, Park, O'Reilly, Cheevers. Pasta is currently here because of his 533 games. I would also add Krejci (6th in assists, 9th in points), Hodge (10th in points), Cooney Weiland, Cashman (9th in goals 8th in points), and Tiny Thompson. Rask and Tim Thomas belong here as well. One could argue for breaking this group further into 2 levels. And I honestly do not know exactly where to put the HoF'ers from the early years.

Honorable mention to Reggie Lemelin for breaking the Montreal curse in 1988 (you kind of had to be there to appreciate why this is a big deal).
That's pretty good - hard to do anything but quibble with that list. Neely is a tough one for me because of how good he was during his injury-shortened peak. From 1989-90 to 1993-94, he played in just 216 games (out of a possible ~410) but scored 176 goals and 287 points. In the same span he scored 32 goals in 44 playoff games. Outer Sanctum is fair but I think he has a decent argument for Inner.