Hot Stove Wishes

Hoplite

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Marcus Semien would be a nice guy to pick up as our bench player. Plays second, third and shortstop. Gets on base a ton and hits for some power. The White Sox infield is pretty crowded with Beckham, Ramirez and Gillaspie and they're trying to bring back Uribe.
 

radsoxfan

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jimbobim said:
Based on the Trumbo return you wonder what WMB could possibly get. Less Proven, better glove and more control. 
 
 
Not sure that trade is all that useful in determining our future expectations.  Unfortunately, Kevin Towers only has decision making authority for one major league team.
 

The Boomer

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More reasons why the Red Sox shouldn't try to emulate the Yankees:
 
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304014504579250473654344020?mod=WSJ_NY_Sports_LEFTTopStories
 
This quote was revealing:
 
"The Los Angeles Angels took Trout with the No. 25 pick they received from the Yankees as compensation for losing Teixeira. Four years later, Teixeira is in decline and earning $22.5 million a year, while Trout is the best all-around player in baseball and earning less than $1 million."
 
Cherington is biding his time looking for just a few reserves who can definitely improve the roster's deep depth cost effectively.  Marcus Semien or somebody like him is probably Plan B once the Drew situation resolves itself if they can deal a pitcher in order to sign Drew to one more pillow contract.
 
It is probably a buyer's market for what Ben seeks at this point, so there is no need to rush into anything that deviates from his plan that was initiated by the Punto trade.  I don't see him trading any of the team's best prospects for anything other than comparable prospects who better balance organizational depth.
 

smastroyin

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Of course, the Angels drafted Randall Grichuk, who pretty much sucks, ahead of Trout.  
 
If you want to drive yourself crazy, you can note that the next OF taken in that draft after Trout was Raymond Fuentes, by the Red Sox.  So if the Angels had not drafted back to back HS OF (which I'm pretty sure people laughed at them for at the time), the Sox would have likely had a shot at Trout. 
 
But really, using specific drafted players as a reason to not sign FA misses the point.  You want to accumulate draft picks to get as many lottery tickets as you can, not because you expect to win each time you are given one.
 

someoneanywhere

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Personally, I am happy that some of the folks in here who are so eager to move WMB are not in the GM's chair. He is a young player who has shown -- throughout his pro career; at every level-- the one thing needful in big-league ballplayers, and that is the ability to adjust and improve. I am fully aware that approach and plate discipline are the question: but that question has not been answered yet. If he answers it positively, as his path suggests he will, you're looking at dealing away an above-average to potentially GG infielder, with power -- the single most valuable offensive commodity in the game - who is cost-controlled. And he's playing with guys who can teach him daily about approach, the best in the game: Pedey, Papi, Nava, Nap, and so on. 
 
My money says it comes for him. Unless someone approaches me with an appealing offer for WMB -- as opposed to the tack so prevalent here, that he is expendable -- I wait on it. 
 

jimbobim

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WMB only is traded if they get a fairly significant return. Ben values the flexibility control and potential power as much as anyone. I think they probably would demand a high ceiling fairly proven OF.  
 

Niastri

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I would remind everybody that Middlebrooks is valuable for his present power, not just potential. In his career so far, as insistant as it has been at the plate, he is averaging 30 hr per 600 plate appearances. If he can do that and improve his walk and contact rates, he will be a great offensive player.
 

KillerBs

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The Bogusevic for Ruggiano deal is noteworthy. You have to think that the Sox could have put a better package together for Ruggiano than the 30 year old BB.
 
Carp would seem to be a fit in Pittsburgh. Any chance the Pirates would move Tabata? Doubtful, it seems, but maybe not if Lambo and/or Gregory Polanco emerge by June/July. Tabata is signed thru 2016 (3/11.5) with club options to 2019 (!) at potentially very reasonable rates. Looks like he might be getting squeezed out in Pitt. Not sure if he is a plausible CF anymore.
 
More generally, re the notion of moving Carp or Nava, I agree this isn't essential (acknowledging the WS rings here) but it sure would seem to make sense. I am not a fan of a full on paltoon for JBJ, but I like the idea of planning on giving about 1/2 of his ABs vs LHPers to someone else. Those ABs could go to Nava, but as much as I love the guy Danny in RF vs. LHPers is weak. 
 

The Boomer

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I didn't see where anybody else noted in this forum that the Orioles picked former bonus baby Michael Almanzar in the ML phase of the Rule V draft this morning:
 
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=almanz001mic&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.typepad.com
 
It's hard to see where they have any room for him as a corner infield backup with studs Chris Davis and Manny Machado already there.  Still only age 23, MA should make it to AAA this coming season.  If nothing else, his big league tryout this spring can't hurt him from a Sox perspective assuming that he will be returned to them after spring training.
 
Of course, he could also be traded to a non-contender where he might actually have a chance to play in the majors next season.  Rule V picks rarely make it but it's sometimes a tribute to the quality of an organization that they can't elevate everyone eligible to their 40 man roster.
 
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I had been thinking of exploring a trade for Ruggiano, ( 31, and first-time arbitration-eligible) who would give us depth in all three outfield positions. An even better move would be a trade with Miami for Jake Marisnick who is basically a younger version of Ruggiano (toolsy RH outfielder with above average speed, raw power to grow into, and can play all three outfield positions) but with more potential. He would be the perfect OFer to stash in Pawtucket and recall as needed. Can we not trade one of our pitching prospects for some young outfield depth?
 

The Boomer

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RochesterSamHorn said:
I had been thinking of exploring a trade for Ruggiano, ( 31, and first-time arbitration-eligible) who would give us depth in all three outfield positions. An even better move would be a trade with Miami for Jake Marisnick who is basically a younger version of Ruggiano (toolsy RH outfielder with above average speed, raw power to grow into, and can play all three outfield positions) but with more potential. He would be the perfect OFer to stash in Pawtucket and recall as needed. Can we not trade one of our pitching prospects for some young outfield depth?
 
Weirdly, there was this rumor at a website that envisioned such a deal as part of a Drew chain reaction:
 
http://baseballnewssource.com/trade-rumors/re-signing-stephen-drew-could-prompt-will-middlebrooks-trade-for-red-sox/27943/
 
With Hanley Ramirez playing ss again full time, I could also see a scenario like this for Joc Pederson if he would interest the Dodgers at 3B.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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The Boomer said:
 
Weirdly, there was this rumor at a website that envisioned such a deal as part of a Drew chain reaction:
 
http://baseballnewssource.com/trade-rumors/re-signing-stephen-drew-could-prompt-will-middlebrooks-trade-for-red-sox/27943/
 
With Hanley Ramirez playing ss again full time, I could also see a scenario like this for Joc Pederson if he would interest the Dodgers at 3B.
If you're dealing WMB to a needy team then why not Miami? Trade him and a prospect for Yelich. Or at least try. Granted its hard to predict how Miami would react to a trade like that depending of course on how solid the 2nd prospect was but an outfield of Yelich Bradley and Victorino would be one of the better ones in baseball.
 

lxt

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Tyrone Biggums said:
If you're dealing WMB to a needy team then why not Miami? Trade him and a prospect for Yelich. Or at least try. Granted its hard to predict how Miami would react to a trade like that depending of course on how solid the 2nd prospect was but an outfield of Yelich Bradley and Victorino would be one of the better ones in baseball.
I rarely find reason to argue with your logic but in this case would we not be thinning the left side of the IF further. I think it's the general consensus of the forum that the left side of the IF is already too thin. Even with the addition of Drew it leaves no backup as Bogaerts would have to move to 3rd. I like the OF and Miami would benefit from WMB's bat to provide some support to Stanton but the left side is a tad barren.
 
I'm assuming that you've already considered this and figure we can supplement it with some additional backup IF support. I like the idea but I think we need to sign Drew and some multi-positional utility IF before making such an offer to Miami.
 
<possession of WMB's bat> 
 

The Boomer

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There isn't too much left to wish for.  Assuming that Drew won't return, I am happy to see the Sox attempt to give an extended chance to their homegrown infielders, Middlebrooks and Bogaerts.
 
About the only thing left to wish for is to swap some of their pitching depth for a bona fide outfield prospect who could provide a LF upgrade next season to the Nava/Gomes platoon or serve as a long term replacement for Victorino.  The rumor mill has David Price going to the Dodgers for a prospect package that includes Joc Pederson (who should be in AAA this year).  If that doesn't go through, would a deal involving Lackey (sell high) bring somebody like this back?  Would a straight swap of comparable prospects (Reynaudo or Barnes) get something like this done?  
 
Another blue chip young outfielder in exchange for some pitching depth is next on my wish list.  Does anybody see where an organization having a surplus of such outfielders would match up to our surplus of pitchers?
 

jimbobim

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A quick look through top outfield prospects yields some guys who one would think are pretty untouchable such as  Buxton,Taveras, Springer, Polanco etc  . The Sox would probably have to pony up a bigger return then a Price return to get any of those teams interested . I agree with your point and the overall sentiment that it will be pretty hard to improve this team before Opening Day.
 
Since we are in the Hot Stove Wishes thread I see no reason why the Red Sox would't either be willing to commit a 130 mill outlay to a potential top rotation arm in Tanaka or build a package around Owens one of our RH starters(Barnes, Renaudo, Webster) and one of ( WMB/ Cecchini/ Swihart) to the Rays for Price if his market continues to fail to develop. Sure Owens looks amazing right now and people would probably be squeamish about trading 3 prospects and then paying both Lester and Price but a rotation of Lester Price Clay Doubie Lackey or Peavy as a 5th would be a terror in the regular season never mind a 7 or 5 game series.   
 

Savin Hillbilly

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It's hard for me to imagine a circumstance in which TB would trade Price within the division, and least of all to us. The return would have to amount to a fleecing, or at least be marketable to the media & fans (yes, I know, all dozen of them) as a fleecing. And why would we do that?
 

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There isn't much I would trade Lackey for unless Tanaka is coming to Boston. Who replaces him? Could the Sox have won the series last year with the projected 2014 left side of Middlebrooks and Xander? Maybe. Could they have won last year without John Lackey? I doubt it.

If were going to let the kids play the field and potentially struggle offensively what better time to have a solid rotation?
 

The Boomer

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SoxinSeattle said:
There isn't much I would trade Lackey for unless Tanaka is coming to Boston. Who replaces him? Could the Sox have won the series last year with the projected 2014 left side of Middlebrooks and Xander? Maybe. Could they have won last year without John Lackey? I doubt it.

If were going to let the kids play the field and potentially struggle offensively what better time to have a solid rotation?
 
Keep in mind that management isn't asking what have you done for me lately but what will you do for me now and in the future?  Going forward, at least Bogaerts and probably Middlebrooks too might be projectably more valuable and productive for the Sox than Lackey who, once his cheap option expires (if not sooner), will end both his tenure and effectiveness with the team. Workman might get the first chance at an opening in the rotation but Webster, DLR, Reynaudo, Barnes and maybe Owens will be lined up for their auditions when opportunity arises. Middlebrooks is actually more proven than Bogaerts if you view WMB's production during the first half of 2013 as a setback or aberration from what might be his norm going forward.  They are clearly sticking to their plan to rebuild and, if they get something significant in return, most (though not all) of their aging players could be dealt.  They held onto most of their young assets and, because the honeymoon from the championship last year persists, seem willing to give their homegrown talent every chance to succeed long term even if their early performance is disappointing or inconsistent.  This is where they need to show some faith in their private evaluations as to who will be keepers.
 

lxt

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The market for Drew does not seem to be there. Boras is trying to sell him to the Mets as the last piece they need to make a run. I think Drew will end up back with the Sox. For how much and how many years is the sticking point. Having Drew will solidify the left side of the IF and provide the Sox with depth like they had last year.
 
To be honest once Drew is signed I think the Sox are in a good place. They have depth all over the place and a rotation that can go head to head with most teams. They'll need a little luck but who would've imagined them going as far as they did last year.
 
Sign Drew and let the season begin.
 

Rasputin

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lxt said:
The market for Drew does not seem to be there. Boras is trying to sell him to the Mets as the last piece they need to make a run. I think Drew will end up back with the Sox. For how much and how many years is the sticking point. Having Drew will solidify the left side of the IF and provide the Sox with depth like they had last year.
 
To be honest once Drew is signed I think the Sox are in a good place. They have depth all over the place and a rotation that can go head to head with most teams. They'll need a little luck but who would've imagined them going as far as they did last year.
 
Sign Drew and let the season begin.
What on earth gives you the idea signing Drew is likely?
 

Tyrone Biggums

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lxt said:
The market for Drew does not seem to be there. Boras is trying to sell him to the Mets as the last piece they need to make a run. I think Drew will end up back with the Sox. For how much and how many years is the sticking point. Having Drew will solidify the left side of the IF and provide the Sox with depth like they had last year.
 
To be honest once Drew is signed I think the Sox are in a good place. They have depth all over the place and a rotation that can go head to head with most teams. They'll need a little luck but who would've imagined them going as far as they did last year.
 
Sign Drew and let the season begin.
 
Scott Boras will engage either the MFY or a team like the Astros that need to hit some type of payroll floor in order to escape the wrath of the MLBPA. He isn't coming back to Boston. How many times have we seen the scenario of a Boras client has overplayed his hand, is without a team going into January and then all of a sudden gets a huge deal? 
 
The talk of him coming back to Boston is just the FO's way of helping out Drew and ensuring that they get another pick in a loaded draft. 
 
The Sox are going after a free agent that will require a multi year deal. I believe that player is Tanaka. Depth is king and players like Tanaka do not come along very often. 
 

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The reason to think that Drew is coming back is that we have evidence that Farrell prefers Drew at SS and X at 3B over X/WMB from the WS.

But, re-signing Drew means they lower the value of the contributions of both Boegarts and Middlebrooks. And they limit their payroll flexibility if some need/opportunity arises during the year. And Boras gets to worry if the Red Sox stash Xander in Pawtucket for a month or two to delay his FA.

Unless Middlebrooks is going as part of a package for a big power bat in LF I don't see how signing Drew really makes sense.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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snowmanny said:
The reason to think that Drew is coming back is that we have evidence that Farrell prefers Drew at SS and X at 3B over X/WMB from the WS.
We have evidence that Farrell prefers Drew/X to X/WMB when all three are on the roster already.
 
That's very different from saying that the preference is strong enough to justify spending eight figures and possibly multiple years for the privilege of making that choice.
 

lxt

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Rasputin said:
What on earth gives you the idea signing Drew is likely?
We'll just have to wait and see who ends up right.
 
If the Sox need $$$ for Tanaka they'll just dump Peavy and/or Dempster ... that will give them a few dollars to purchase Tanaka.
 
Now that Tanaka will be posted I doubt the Sox will end up with him as the Yankees will simply buy him. Please don't tell me about the luxury tax as the Yankees will not pass on Tanaka.
 
Drew will not be signed by the Yankees with Tanaka available.
 
As far as Houston, why in Gods name would Drew want to end his career in Houston, I doubt Drew would settle for that.
 

Doctor G

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lxt said:
We'll just have to wait and see who ends up right.
 
If the Sox need $$$ for Tanaka they'll just dump Peavy and/or Dempster ... that will give them a few dollars to purchase Tanaka.
 
Now that Tanaka will be posted I doubt the Sox will end up with him as the Yankees will simply buy him. Please don't tell me about the luxury tax as the Yankees will not pass on Tanaka.
 
Drew will not be signed by the Yankees with Tanaka available.
 
As far as Houston, why in Gods name would Drew want to end his career in Houston, I doubt Drew would settle for that.
If the Yankees sign Tanaka, that increases the chance they will sign Drew. Once they go over 189M all restraint will be exorcized.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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lxt said:
We'll just have to wait and see who ends up right.
 
If the Sox need $$$ for Tanaka they'll just dump Peavy and/or Dempster ... that will give them a few dollars to purchase Tanaka.
 
Now that Tanaka will be posted I doubt the Sox will end up with him as the Yankees will simply buy him. Please don't tell me about the luxury tax as the Yankees will not pass on Tanaka.
 
Drew will not be signed by the Yankees with Tanaka available.
 
As far as Houston, why in Gods name would Drew want to end his career in Houston, I doubt Drew would settle for that.
 
I'm strongly against dumping Peavy. There's a few reasons for this. Peavy is a free agent at the end of the season and the Sox are almost a lock to give him a QO. If he leaves then the Sox get a 1st rounder. So whatever they trade Peavy for has to equate to the value of a 1st rounder in the 2015 draft. I also feel that he gives us 4 sure thing starters, which leaves that 5th spot open for Doubront/Dempster to claim. Its also not out of the realm of possibility for Lackey to retire instead of playing for the 600k that he is owed for next year. Which is why they should explore trading him if they can get a good return. You will not get Wil Myers level talent but you can still get some pretty good prospects for him. B+ or B level prospects. Dempster you'll have to settle for lottery tickets. Buchholz and Lester you'll listen to but won't move unless someone gives you an incredibly insane offer. Doubront has value especially after last year. Conditioning aside I think he can really take another step forward and become a legit #3 for this team. 
 
But all of these questions should make the Sox want to pursue Tanaka even more. Especially with the possibility that Lackey/Peavy/Dempster will not be with the team in 2015 and none of the SP prospects are a sure thing. 
 

OttoC

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Tyrone Biggums said:
 
I'm strongly against dumping Peavy. There's a few reasons for this. Peavy is a free agent at the end of the season and the Sox are almost a lock to give him a QO. If he leaves then the Sox get a 1st rounder....
 
The Red Sox gave Ellsbury a QC and got the 32nd pick in the draft for him, What guarantee is there that they would do any better with Peavey (def: a lumberman's lever that has a pivoting hooked arm and metal spike at one end —called also cant dog)?
 

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Tyrone Biggums said:
 
I'm strongly against dumping Peavy. There's a few reasons for this. Peavy is a free agent at the end of the season and the Sox are almost a lock to give him a QO. If he leaves then the Sox get a 1st rounder. So whatever they trade Peavy for has to equate to the value of a 1st rounder in the 2015 draft. I also feel that he gives us 4 sure thing starters, which leaves that 5th spot open for Doubront/Dempster to claim. Its also not out of the realm of possibility for Lackey to retire instead of playing for the 600k that he is owed for next year. Which is why they should explore trading him if they can get a good return. You will not get Wil Myers level talent but you can still get some pretty good prospects for him. B+ or B level prospects. Dempster you'll have to settle for lottery tickets. Buchholz and Lester you'll listen to but won't move unless someone gives you an incredibly insane offer. Doubront has value especially after last year. Conditioning aside I think he can really take another step forward and become a legit #3 for this team. 
 
I have a completely different take on Lackey. I see him as a super competitive guy that tried to pitch through pain his first 2 years here. He realized he needed surgery in order to be effective. He knew what that meant, a year at ML min. Instead of sulking, he dropped the pounds, rehabbed and had a very effective year culminating with a post-season where he was the #2 starter on the WS Champion. Unless he blows out his elbow again I don't see a reason why he wouldn't be pitching the next 2 seasons for his next contract.
 
There is no way I trade John Lackey after what I saw last season. Especially for B level prospects, we have plenty of B level prospects. In fact I'd be more inclined to deal our B level prospects for a 'Lackey' type pitcher.
 
 Dempster, on the other hand, will hopefully get moved and give the Sox some budget room to add Drew or add payroll during the course of the season.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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Tyrone Biggums said:
 
I'm strongly against dumping Peavy. There's a few reasons for this. Peavy is a free agent at the end of the season and the Sox are almost a lock to give him a QO. If he leaves then the Sox get a 1st rounder. So whatever they trade Peavy for has to equate to the value of a 1st rounder in the 2015 draft.
 
Why are the Sox almost a lock to give him a QO? We have several high-minors SP prospects who will be vying for rotation slots by 2015. In that situation, paying Peavy $14M or so a year would be an odd use of resources (unless we've traded one or more of our other pitchers in the meantime).
 
If they do give him a QO, I think there's an excellent chance he takes it. There won't be much of a market for a 34-year-old, league-average starter who has averaged 21 starts over the past five years and costs a draft pick.
 
So either way, I don't see a draft pick coming our way for Peavy. Of course he might change that scenario with a dominant 2014. But based on what we saw last year I find that unlikely.
 

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Tyrone Biggums said:
 
I'm strongly against dumping Peavy. There's a few reasons for this. Peavy is a free agent at the end of the season and the Sox are almost a lock to give him a QO. If he leaves then the Sox get a 1st rounder. So whatever they trade Peavy for has to equate to the value of a 1st rounder in the 2015 draft. I also feel that he gives us 4 sure thing starters, which leaves that 5th spot open for Doubront/Dempster to claim. Its also not out of the realm of possibility for Lackey to retire instead of playing for the 600k that he is owed for next year. Which is why they should explore trading him if they can get a good return. You will not get Wil Myers level talent but you can still get some pretty good prospects for him. B+ or B level prospects. Dempster you'll have to settle for lottery tickets. Buchholz and Lester you'll listen to but won't move unless someone gives you an incredibly insane offer. Doubront has value especially after last year. Conditioning aside I think he can really take another step forward and become a legit #3 for this team. 
 
But all of these questions should make the Sox want to pursue Tanaka even more. Especially with the possibility that Lackey/Peavy/Dempster will not be with the team in 2015 and none of the SP prospects are a sure thing. 
Lackey retire? Seriously? The vast majority of professional players hang on too long rather than retire when they have something left in the tank. What would Lackey do with the rest of his life? Movies? I would take some pretty long odds betting on this one. Whether Lackey is giving a disgusted look to a teammate over an error behind him, or celebrating a great play by one of them, or walking off the mound pounding his glove over a big strikeout, you can see he lives for the game.
 

radsoxfan

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I think the QO issue all comes down to how Peavy pitches in 2014.  On his current deal, Peavy seems fairly paid to me.  The FO shouldn't have to pay much, if any, of a subsidy to trade him.  But without a subsidy, I don't expect much of a prospect return.
 
If he performs at least as well as expected, or better than expected, he should be worth a QO.  If he performs worse than expected, he won't be worth it.  Maybe that seems obvious, but I just think his 50th percentile projection is pretty much right in line with just barely being worth a QO.
 
Of course there are other issues that go into deciding about making a QO offer, but your own valuation of the player is probably the most important one. 
 

The Boomer

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Lavarnway doesn't have much future in the Sox organization with their veteran commitments and depth behind him.  The Sox need another center fielder with options who would be available to shuttle between AAA and the majors in case injuries arise.  Here is my candidate for an equivalent post-hype prospect in serious need of a scenery change like Lavarnway:
 
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jacksbr01.shtml
 
Theo surely values Lavarnway as his own draftee and the Cubs are relatively thin in terms of their catching depth.  I would make this move in a heartbeat.  Adding a pitcher like Wilson or his equivalent might sweeten this deal for the Cubs.  Jackson will likely have a low BA with many K's.  However, he has generally good plate discipline, speed, power and adequate defense for CF.
 

Youks Baltic Roots

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The Boomer said:
Lavarnway doesn't have much future in the Sox organization with their veteran commitments and depth behind him.  The Sox need another center fielder with options who would be available to shuttle between AAA and the majors in case injuries arise.  Here is my candidate for an equivalent post-hype prospect in serious need of a scenery change like Lavarnway:
 
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jacksbr01.shtml
 
Theo surely values Lavarnway as his own draftee and the Cubs are relatively thin in terms of their catching depth.  I would make this move in a heartbeat.  Adding a pitcher like Wilson or his equivalent might sweeten this deal for the Cubs.  Jackson will likely have a low BA with many K's.  However, he has generally good plate discipline, speed, power and adequate defense for CF.
I love this idea, but I don't see Theo going for it. Without a DH slot, I don't see any NL teams taking on Lavarnway - he strikes me as more Hatteberg than Napoli. And with Rizzo at first, the value wouldn't be there for the Cubs. Now if we went bigger than Wilson, they might bite, but then you may end up overpaying for a backup cf.
 

dbn

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Youks Baltic Roots said:
I love this idea, but I don't see Theo going for it. Without a DH slot, I don't see any NL teams taking on Lavarnway - he strikes me as more Hatteberg than Napoli. And with Rizzo at first, the value wouldn't be there for the Cubs. Now if we went bigger than Wilson, they might bite, but then you may end up overpaying for a backup cf.
 
I am under the impression that Lavarnway has improved his defense to the point that he is now considered a good defensive catcher.  I think the concern with RL is when he is beside the plate, not behind it.  
 

Youks Baltic Roots

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dbn said:
 
I am under the impression that Lavarnway has improved his defense to the point that he is now considered a good defensive catcher.  I think the concern with RL is when he is beside the plate, not behind it.  
I think the fact that the Red Sox weren't even including him in the equation to replace Salty speaks volumes to what they really think about his catching ability.

His bat was weak last year, but he has a lot more history of his bat coming around than his overall game play behind the plate (not just glovework and throwing out baserunners but framing pitches and calling a game).

Your overall point that he may not hit is valid (lots of AAAA guys out there and he may just be another one), but if he is going to fetch anything in return on the trade market it is going to be for his potential beside the plate, not behind it.
(I love that turn of phrase, btw, so apologies for using it right back at you.)

Edit - stupid autocorrect.
 

SaveBooFerriss

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dbn said:
 
I am under the impression that Lavarnway has improved his defense to the point that he is now considered a good defensive catcher.  I think the concern with RL is when he is beside the plate, not behind it.  
 
Coming up through the minors, the consensus was that Lavarnway's bat would play in the majors, but his defense was a serious question.  Now the question is his bat as much, if not more, than his defense.  His defense probably fringe average, if there are questions about his bat, he is not worth much.  
 

EP Sox Fan

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dbn said:
I am under the impression that Lavarnway has improved his defense to the point that he is now considered a good defensive catcher.  I think the concern with RL is when he is beside the plate, not behind it.
Lavarnway has always hit well in the minors. While he's struggled a bit in the Show, he hasn't really had an opportunity for consistent ABs. The knock on him has always been his defense. While he has made some improvements behind the plate, his defense is still considered below average. Considering the Sox just let Salty walk for substantially the same reason, I'd be surprised if he has a future at C. His bat may be good enough to stick at DH. If he is not traded, I wouldn't be surprised to see him as Ortiz's replacement.

I can't imbed the link from my iPad but Soxprospects has as counting report that discusses his defense.

http://www.soxprospects.com/players/lavarnway-ryan.htm
 

Youks Baltic Roots

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SaveBooFerriss said:
 
Coming up through the minors, the consensus was that Lavarnway's bat would play in the majors, but his defense was a serious question.  Now the question is his bat as much, if not more, than his defense.  His defense probably fringe average, if there are questions about his bat, he is not worth much.  
Agreed. If his bat won't play his glove won't carry him. Any value he would have at the moment as a trade chit would come in the form of the opposing GM's faith that his bat would come back around. If not, he should have been dumped over Castellanos.
 

dbn

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(snip)

Your overall point that he may not hit is valid (lots of AAAA guys out there and he may just be another one), but if he is going to fetch anything in return on the trade market it is going to be for his potential beside the plate, not behind it.
(I love that turn of phrase, btw, so apologies for using it right back at you.)

Edit - stupid autocorrect.


If he's a AAAA guy at plate they can't even move him to 1B (he'd be blocking Lars Anderson).

Thanks for the complement. I was well pleased with myself when I thought of it last night, particularly considering how much beer I had in me (just starting holiday family visit...)
 

kieckeredinthehead

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dbn said:
If he's a AAAA guy at plate they can't even move him to 1B (he'd be blocking Lars Anderson).

Thanks for the complement. I was well pleased with myself when I thought of it last night, particularly considering how much beer I had in me (just starting holiday family visit...)
 
Seeing as he just put up a 553 OPS in a half season with Chicago's AAA team, nobody's blocking Lars Anderson, least of all a catcher on the Red Sox.
 

dbn

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kieckeredinthehead said:
 
Seeing as he just put up a 553 OPS in a half season with Chicago's AAA team, nobody's blocking Lars Anderson, least of all a catcher on the Red Sox.
 
Using irony to echo the fact that a lot of great-looking power-hitting prospects never make it as MLB hitters. I.e., remember when the problem with acquiring Adrian Gonzalez was that he would block Lars Anderson?
 

TomRicardo

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Youks Baltic Roots said:
I think the fact that the Red Sox weren't even including him in the equation to replace Salty speaks volumes to what they really think about his catching ability.
 
 
Eh, you don't go with two 35+ YO catchers if you don't have some faith in your third catcher with options.
 

Youks Baltic Roots

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TomRicardo said:
 
Eh, you don't go with two 35+ YO catchers if you don't have some faith in your third catcher with options.
I think you are right. I just don't think that third catcher with options is Lavarnway. More likely Vazquez or Butler, rushing the former or plugging a hole with the latter.

I like Lavarnway by the way; I just haven't seen anything to demonstrate the current leadership has him in their plans.
 

lxt

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For a long time I was not at all on the Tanaka bandwagon. I thought for sure it would simply be a Yankees forgone conclusion. But I'm starting to come around to the idea that Tanaka might be a good thing for the Sox and a possible obtainable player. Recent news blips on trade rumors indicate that one of the places Tanaka would like to play is Boston. May be just may be he's not in it for just the money.
 
I understand it would cost a large sum of money anyway but it's doable. The the Sox can spin off Peavy and Dempster to absorb some of the financial impact. It won't cover the whole contract but it would be enough to give the Sox just enough freedom to make any adjustments at the trade deadline.
 
He's young enough to create a rotation that has 3 may be 4 solid performs for the next 3 to 5 years.
 
I can see a rotation that would make anyone smile.
 
Lester
Buchholz
Tanaka
Lackey
Doubront/Workman ... whoever proves to be the winner this spring
 

seantoo

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dbn said:
 
Using irony to echo the fact that a lot of great-looking power-hitting prospects never make it as MLB hitters. I.e., remember when the problem with acquiring Adrian Gonzalez was that he would block Lars Anderson?
I don't think that was a problem considering Athony Rizzo had surpassed Lars in the depth charts by then. Also I thought the AAAA player had in large part been proven a total myth. Nearly every successful AAA player who has been given a real chance to succeed at MLB has had some success. Was it Bill James or someone else that championed that?
 
At this point my hot stove wish is to upgrade Bryce Brentz and package him with Dempster & cash. Checking BB's Arizona Fall league #'s gives me some pause, on one hand it's a small sample size (at least 70 PA) on the other hand it's against other teams top hand picked prospects or at the upper levels of the minors. His SLG% was nothing to write home about but that's something you don't have to worry about with him, he definitely possess power, the question with him is the same as Middlebrooks, will he make consistent enough contact and draw enough walks so that his OBP is not detrimental? 
 
Is there a team with a possible excess of OF prospects (preferably who can at least play RF) who will start the year at AA or higher that is in the lower third of the top 100 prospects. We give back a prospect who is nearly as good, and who also needs pitching where we unload most of Demspter's salary?
How likely is something like this SOSH?
 
Edit: can't type, who to how, good grief.