Hot Stove Wishes

YTF

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chawson said:
 
Maybe true, but the beauty of Cano to the Ms is that it's much harder for them to get a comparable impact bat at a position of need. They'll almost certainly sign Infante or trade for Phillips now, but how do you sign Choo or trade for Kemp when your 2014 outfield already consists of Gardner, Ellsbury, Soriano, Wells, and Ichiro?
 
They're the fucking Yankees. Shoot first, ask questions later and sort out the bodies. The Skanks are only paying 2.4M of Wells' 21 M contract this season (thanks Analhiem). No prob either trading him at that money or just cutting him loose. Likewise they are paying just 5M of the 18M due to Soriano this season (thanks Theo). Ichiro is due 6.5M this year and I'm guessing he could be easily moved at that price or at a subsidized price.
 

Hoplite

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The Boomer said:
 
Obviously, he goes to the Yankees for a Nathan's Coney Island hot dog while they pay 60% of his remaining salary.
 
Not their style, they'll get the Phillies to pay $8 million of his salary per year so he'll be a -$3 million hit to their luxury tax salary.
 

The Gray Eagle

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Drek717 said:
 
Here's my concern in a nutshell: we go with anyone who isn't a capable CF defender as the 5th OF, JBJ starts in CF with Vic in RF.  What happens if Vic hits the DL and JBJ isn't hitting?  We have a real lack of CF capable defense in the high minors right now.  Alex Castellanos is probably the best option and he looks more like a corner outfielder.  Shannon Wilkerson is not a ML worthy player.
 
 
One idea: we trade a bag of balls to the Padres for Dan Robertson and play him in Pawtucket until an OF is needed. I've already mentioned him in this thread, he's a little OF who gets on base, grinds out at-bats, runs fast, and can be stashed in the minors until needed. Seems like he'd be a really handy depth guy to have ready but he's 28 and like 8th on the Padres OF depth chart, and most teams look at his height and have zero interest in him.
 

Yaz4Ever

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The Gray Eagle said:
 
One idea: we trade a bag of balls to the Padres for Dan Robertson and play him in Pawtucket until an OF is needed. I've already mentioned him in this thread, he's a little OF who gets on base, grinds out at-bats, runs fast, and can be stashed in the minors until needed. Seems like he'd be a really handy depth guy to have ready but he's 28 and like 8th on the Padres OF depth chart, and most teams look at his height and have zero interest in him.
A little guy who is considered a "grinder"? No thanks.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
The Gray Eagle said:
 
Seems like he'd be a really handy depth guy to have ready but he's 28 and like 8th on the Padres OF depth chart, and most teams look at his height and have zero interest in him.
 
Or, most teams look at the fact that at ages 27 and 28, he failed to reach an OPS of .760 in one of the highest-scoring leagues in the minors, and infer that he is even shorter on talent than height.
 
I'm really mystified why you think this guy is special enough to warrant interest. Just looking at his numbers, he's not a 4A player. He's not even a 3-1/2A player. He's a just-barely-3A player. What am I missing?
 

The Gray Eagle

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Savin Hillbilly said:
 
Or, most teams look at the fact that at ages 27 and 28, he failed to reach an OPS of .760 in one of the highest-scoring leagues in the minors, and infer that he is even shorter on talent than height.
 
I'm really mystified why you think this guy is special enough to warrant interest. Just looking at his numbers, he's not a 4A player. He's not even a 3-1/2A player. He's a just-barely-3A player. What am I missing?
 
 
Are you thinking that I am suggesting this guy as our fulltime starting CF or something? I'm talking about stashing him at Pawtucket to give us more depth at a place where we could use it. 
 
OPS is a ridiculous stat to look at for a guy like this, of course he doesn't have any power, everyone knows it. If he had power, then he wouldn't be available for nothing for a deep depth role. But he gets on base, can cover CF and is fast. That's pretty good for a guy who should cost nothing to acquire and might be someone who can fill in for a couple weeks if someone goes on the DL. Basically a faster, better-OBP Brock Holt type for CF, which we don't really have ready to step in. Kalish is gone, and was injured all the time anyway. Brentz and Hassan can't cover CF. JC Linares got demoted to AA last year. Hazelbaker is gone. 
 
I don't want us to have to tie up a major league roster spot with a backup CF. If we have someone potentially decent who can come up and down from AAA for two weeks whenever needed, then we can get by without taking up a roster spot on a backup CF. If we need one for part of a game or one or two games, Victorino could slide over and we deal with Nava in RF for a game or two. Bradley or Victorino goes on the DL for 15 days, we are going to need someone to cover us for two weeks. 
 
We have excellent depth almost everywhere else on the field, so I want us to add a guy in Pawtucket who can step in this season and give us some CF cover if needed. Feel free to suggest someone else who would cost almost nothing, gets on base, can cover CF, who isn't on a 40-man roster anywhere, and can ride the Pawtucket shuttle if needed. I think we need someone like that in AAA-- it doesn't have to be this guy, so suggest some others. But most others are going to be veterans who can't go up and down the shuttle, so if you use them once, you lose them. Or they have a deadline where if you don't promote them after a month or so in AAA, they can opt out and leave. 
 
We have Castellanos, but he is a corner OF and IF, and gives us good depth at several positions, but I don't think CF is one of them. He could probably do okay at everywhere other than C, CF and SS. 
 

benhogan

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Wish list post-Napoli signing
 
1. Extend Lester for 4 years (day after opening day)
2. Deal Dempster to save $$$, Workman goes to AAA and is our #6 starter
3. Sign Drew for 2yrs/20-22MM, Xander to 3rd. Against LHP Xander to SS, WMB to 3rd.  No need for UI then.
4. tack on 1 more year at 5MM for Koji  (probably should wait till after the first month of the season to see if he is fine after last seasons workload)
 
2014 vs 2013
big downgrade to CF            JBJ < Ellsbury
very slight downgrade at C   AJP < Salty   
upgrade at 3rd                      X+WMB > WMB+rest
upgrade at SS                       X+Drew > Drew
Bullpen upgraded                 Mujica+Badenhop > Hanarahan + Bailey
Starting staff better/deeper   Peavey > Dempster
 

Jack Rabbit Slim

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With the roster nearly complete, it looks like the Sox are about $3-4M under the cap [Speier's $32M - $16M (Nap) - $8.25M(AJP) - $4.75M(Mujica)].  If they want any room for a midseason acquisition, they will almost certainly need to find a taker for Dempster or Peavy's salary.  Assuming that gets done, the two remaining names that are still garnering some attention are Choo and Kemp.  In either case, in order to take on their salary and stay under the cap they would also have to cut Gomes $5M.  Since Choo only makes sense as a Nava replacement in the LF platoon, it seems he is out.  Kemp could still work if the Sox were only paying $16M AAV, but that would put them basically at the luxury tax limit so no room to add midseason.  Unless the Dodgers are prepared to eat much more of Kemp's contract, I think the acquisitions are all but done.  Trade Dempster, add a UIF and some AAA CF depth and start dreaming about spring.
 

CaskNFappin

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May 20, 2013
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The Gray Eagle said:
We have Castellanos, but he is a corner OF and IF, and gives us good depth at several positions, but I don't think CF is one of them. He could probably do okay at everywhere other than C, CF and SS. 
He is pure shit. We traded Hazelnaker for him if that sums up what the Dodgers thought of him. Stop acting like he's a viable option on a 1st division team!
 

Hoplite

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Oct 26, 2013
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Red Sox have approximately $6.5 million left to spend (Speier's calculation include a $5 million rainy day fund for the trade deadline), but they also have six starters and eight relievers. They could free up another $13-14.5 million by trading Dempster or Peavy. The Diamondbacks are reportedly looking for a veteran starting pitcher and they have two shortstops. We could trade Dempster or Peavy for Didi Gregorious or Chris Owings and we'd have our bench player. That would give us the salary to sign Choo (if his contract demands are reasonable) or Hart. If we sign Hart, we could trade Gomes and free up another $5 million. If the Dodgers get really desperate we could trade for Kemp, but I'm not crazy about the idea. Jackie Bradley Jr. will be fine. But just in case, I'd sign an elite defensive player like Tony Gwynn Jr. to a minor league contract as insurance.

There's plenty of salary room to continue to improve. And we have plenty of trade chips both at the major league level and in the minors. The Winter Meetings should be a lot of fun.
 

JakeRae

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Jack Rabbit Slim said:
With the roster nearly complete, it looks like the Sox are about $3-4M under the cap [Speier's $32M - $16M (Nap) - $8.25M(AJP) - $4.75M(Mujica)].  If they want any room for a midseason acquisition, they will almost certainly need to find a taker for Dempster or Peavy's salary.  Assuming that gets done, the two remaining names that are still garnering some attention are Choo and Kemp.  In either case, in order to take on their salary and stay under the cap they would also have to cut Gomes $5M.  Since Choo only makes sense as a Nava replacement in the LF platoon, it seems he is out.  Kemp could still work if the Sox were only paying $16M AAV, but that would put them basically at the luxury tax limit so no room to add midseason.  Unless the Dodgers are prepared to eat much more of Kemp's contract, I think the acquisitions are all but done.  Trade Dempster, add a UIF and some AAA CF depth and start dreaming about spring.
 
It doesn't have to be a $16M AAV for the Kemp trade to work. To use an extreme example, if the Red Sox are getting a $10M subsidy, but get it all in 2014, Kemp's cap hit drops to $11.6M for 2014 and then rises back to his full AAV for the rest of the deal. (This example is not a proposed subsidy, just an illustration of the accounting element.) 
 
It's also conceivable that the Red Sox don't care about the luxury tax this year. They are back in first time offender territory and have a lot of money coming off the books next year. Staying under in 2015 seems very likely, so bumping a bit over for a year, even with the revenue sharing ramifications, might be something that ownership is okay with.
 

The Boomer

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Hoplite:
 
Red Sox have approximately $6.5 million left to spend (Speier's calculation include a $5 million rainy day fund for the trade deadline), but they also have six starters and eight relievers. They could free up another $13-14.5 million by trading Dempster or Peavy. The Diamondbacks are reportedly looking for a veteran starting pitcher and they have two shortstops. We could trade Dempster or Peavy for Didi Gregorious or Chris Owings and we'd have our bench player. That would give us the salary to sign Choo (if his contract demands are reasonable) or Hart. If we sign Hart, we could trade Gomes and free up another $5 million. If the Dodgers get really desperate we could trade for Kemp, but I'm not crazy about the idea. Jackie Bradley Jr. will be fine. But just in case, I'd sign an elite defensive player like Tony Gwynn Jr. to a minor league contract as insurance.

There's plenty of salary room to continue to improve. And we have plenty of trade chips both at the major league level and in the minors. The Winter Meetings should be a lot of fun.
 
 
 
 
 
I like your thinking in terms of a trade.  Either Gregorious or Owings would be much better than the usual cost controlled utility infielder in terms of deep depth.  A depth from the farm system prospect or surplus reliever paired with the veteran RHP salary dump might also be needed to get this done.
 
Drew, Kemp and other big ticket regulars are likely out of their discussion now.  Some money under the luxury tax limit will need to be reserved to trade for anything they need down the stretch if they contend again this summer.
 
The Mets swooped in early to sign Chris Young who will be a second division regular outfielder there rather than a backup for a contender like Boston.  The Sox still need a batting right handed OF who can adequately cover all 3 outfield positions as a reserve.  Once a regular but now clearly a reserve, Franklin Gutierrez ought to be their target:
 
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gutiefr01.shtml
 
The $ 7 million he was paid last year was a gross overpay.  However, he ought to be available for not more than a Gomes level $5 million salary (if not less) for this role.  He gives the Sox a CF platoon possibility with Bradley to protect him from the toughest lefty pitchers as they build his confidence to be their CF regular for years to come.  If Bradley can't make the adjustment, Gutierrez fits the deep depth profile that they seek for the OF who can hit some and play good defense at every OF position.  Owings or Gregorious would project the same way for the IF.
 

lxt

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Hoplite said:
Red Sox have approximately $6.5 million left to spend (Speier's calculation include a $5 million rainy day fund for the trade deadline), but they also have six starters and eight relievers. They could free up another $13-14.5 million by trading Dempster or Peavy. The Diamondbacks are reportedly looking for a veteran starting pitcher and they have two shortstops. We could trade Dempster or Peavy for Didi Gregorious or Chris Owings and we'd have our bench player. That would give us the salary to sign Choo (if his contract demands are reasonable) or Hart. If we sign Hart, we could trade Gomes and free up another $5 million. If the Dodgers get really desperate we could trade for Kemp, but I'm not crazy about the idea. Jackie Bradley Jr. will be fine. But just in case, I'd sign an elite defensive player like Tony Gwynn Jr. to a minor league contract as insurance.

There's plenty of salary room to continue to improve. And we have plenty of trade chips both at the major league level and in the minors. The Winter Meetings should be a lot of fun.
This is full of great ideas. Let's do it.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Hoplite said:
Red Sox have approximately $6.5 million left to spend (Speier's calculation include a $5 million rainy day fund for the trade deadline), but they also have six starters and eight relievers. They could free up another $13-14.5 million by trading Dempster or Peavy. The Diamondbacks are reportedly looking for a veteran starting pitcher and they have two shortstops. We could trade Dempster or Peavy for Didi Gregorious or Chris Owings and we'd have our bench player. That would give us the salary to sign Choo (if his contract demands are reasonable) or Hart. If we sign Hart, we could trade Gomes and free up another $5 million. If the Dodgers get really desperate we could trade for Kemp, but I'm not crazy about the idea. Jackie Bradley Jr. will be fine. But just in case, I'd sign an elite defensive player like Tony Gwynn Jr. to a minor league contract as insurance.

There's plenty of salary room to continue to improve. And we have plenty of trade chips both at the major league level and in the minors. The Winter Meetings should be a lot of fun.
 
With Napoli re-signed, there's no need for Hart.
 
For what the D-Backs gave up to get Gregorius last winter, I can't see them giving him up for a more expensive pitcher just a year later.  Besides which, wouldn't adding Gregorius or Owings just be doubling down on a good young SS since we already have Bogaerts penciled in as the starter?  I can see trading Dempster or Peavy and getting a utility infielder as part of the return, but I think expecting to get a young, cost-controlled player that projects to be a starter sooner rather than later might be reaching a bit too far.  I think a veteran off the free agent heap would be an easier way to upgrade or add to the depth represented at the moment by Brock Holt.
 

lxt

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I was thinking about the Cano & Granderson signings and the possibility that A-Rod money could free up this season and came to the conclusion the Yankees may actually be a better team. If they put together a package for Phillips this lineup will beat people to death.
 
There are a ton of starters out there that can be picked up to fill out the rotation: [SIZE=11pt]Ervin Santana, Ubaldo Jimenez, Garza, Bartolo, Gavin Floyd, John Lannan, Paul Maholm, Zito, Joe Saunders, Oswalt & Halladay.[/SIZE]
 
There are also a ton of bullpen arms to provide protection after the 6th: Chris Perez, Rodney, John Axford & Grant Balfour.
 
I think Cano signing with the Mariners may have created a Yankee team that will be a serious threat this season.
 
The only actual flaw I see so far is the amount of money being paid to Ellsbury. The signing of him was a great idea just the amount they signed him for seems a tad out of whack.
 
Gang this has all the potential of being a real scary Yankee team. I think Hoplite's thoughts are more a necessity for the Sox if the Yankees continue filling holes with Cano, Granderson & A-Rod money.
 

joe dokes

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lxt said:
I was thinking about the Cano & Granderson signings and the possibility that A-Rod money could free up this season and came to the conclusion the Yankees may actually be a better team. If they put together a package for Phillips this lineup will beat people to death.
 
There are a ton of starters out there that can be picked up to fill out the rotation: [SIZE=11pt]Ervin Santana, Ubaldo Jimenez, Garza, Bartolo, Gavin Floyd, John Lannan, Paul Maholm, Zito, Joe Saunders, Oswalt & Halladay.[/SIZE]
 
There are also a ton of bullpen arms to provide protection after the 6th: Chris Perez, Rodney, John Axford & Grant Balfour.
 
I think Cano signing with the Mariners may have created a Yankee team that will be a serious threat this season.
 
The only actual flaw I see so far is the amount of money being paid to Ellsbury. The signing of him was a great idea just the amount they signed him for seems a tad out of whack.
 
Gang this has all the potential of being a real scary Yankee team. I think Hoplite's thoughts are more a necessity for the Sox if the Yankees continue filling holes with Cano, Granderson & A-Rod money.
 
Brandon Phillips? Trying to avoid his 3rd stright sub 100 OPS+
Santana would be a good move. I'm not sold on Ubaldo's half season rise from the dead (but its possible). Garza and Farty Colon? Bring 'em on.
 
The only thing Zito, Oswalt, Saunders and Halladay are filling out these days are uniforms.  Gavin Floyd probably wont pitch in 2014.(TJ). Lannan has rarely been good, and is coming off major knee surgery. Maholm has been a mediocre NL pitcher for years.
Chris Perez hasnt really been good for a couple of years now. Neither has Axford.
Most of these moves put the Yankees on a crash course with abject mediocrity.
 
Hoplite's thoughts are reasonable but debateable.  They certainly aren't a necessity. At least not with respect to the Yankees. The NYs have a good outfield and a good catcher and 2 or 3 good starting pitchers. They have a second baseman who is league average at best, a 34 y/o first baseman coming off wrist surgery (whose full-season OPS+ trajectory is 141,124,121,115), one shortstop who cant play shortstop and another that cant hit 200. They have one rangeless 3rd baseman who might be above league average but who also might be suspended for the season, and another whose in the midst of age and injury decline (wait...is Youk a FA?).
 
At the moment, the only scary thing about these Yankees is the possibility that their radio broadcast team willl start making sex noises on the air.
 

Danny_Darwin

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Hoplite said:
Red Sox have approximately $6.5 million left to spend (Speier's calculation include a $5 million rainy day fund for the trade deadline), but they also have six starters and eight relievers. They could free up another $13-14.5 million by trading Dempster or Peavy. The Diamondbacks are reportedly looking for a veteran starting pitcher and they have two shortstops. We could trade Dempster or Peavy for Didi Gregorious or Chris Owings and we'd have our bench player. That would give us the salary to sign Choo (if his contract demands are reasonable) or Hart. If we sign Hart, we could trade Gomes and free up another $5 million. If the Dodgers get really desperate we could trade for Kemp, but I'm not crazy about the idea. Jackie Bradley Jr. will be fine. But just in case, I'd sign an elite defensive player like Tony Gwynn Jr. to a minor league contract as insurance.

There's plenty of salary room to continue to improve. And we have plenty of trade chips both at the major league level and in the minors. The Winter Meetings should be a lot of fun.
 
Hm. I do recall they tried to get Peavy at the deadline, and their GM does know him from their San Diego days. That said, Didi or Owings seems like a high cost to me.
 

Puffy

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
 
For what the D-Backs gave up to get Gregorius last winter, I can't see them giving him up for a more expensive pitcher just a year later.  Besides which, wouldn't adding Gregorius or Owings just be doubling down on a good young SS since we already have Bogaerts penciled in as the starter?  I can see trading Dempster or Peavy and getting a utility infielder as part of the return, but I think expecting to get a young, cost-controlled player that projects to be a starter sooner rather than later might be reaching a bit too far.  I think a veteran off the free agent heap would be an easier way to upgrade or add to the depth represented at the moment by Brock Holt.
 
I agree, but it is true the 2014 Red Sox have more risk on that side of the infield given the uncertainties regarding Will Middlebrooks (And I'm less worried about Bogaerts than Middlebrooks).  
 
But since they need a backup 2B/SS anyway, if Bogaerts is 3B insurance, then they might need something more than a Ciriaco/Bloomquist/Punto type. If Middlebrooks repeats last year's performance, or they don't want Bogaerts playing 162 games, the backup infielder might get several hundred at bats.  
 
Frankly, I imagine they are taking a good look at Stephen Drew and how he might fit here - with Bogaerts shifting from SS to 3B.  Another option to throw out there might be someone like newly available (and very versatile) Nick Franklin, who can back up 2B/SS. 
.
 

Puffy

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I could actually see the Yankees selling Stephen Drew on playing at 2B for a year and serving as the backup and heir apparent to Jeter at SS as he stumbles into retirement.  
 

BeantownIdaho

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As crazy as this may seem to some, I would like to see them dump Peavy and Dempster and use the prospects to get Brett Anderson from the A's. Yes, he has had some injury issues, but the upside to a 25 year old, 6'4 lefty who has shown good stuff could be worth it. Ben is all about players coming off down/injury years... and it frees up 20+ million as flexibility.  If it fails, I feel we have pitchers on the horizon who could fill in at #5.
 

Devizier

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I think everyone should read this, from Dave Cameron.
 
 
Now, Beltran is two years older, and heading into his age-37 season. His new walk year wRC+ is 132, still very good, but not at the level he was at the last time he went into free agency. His defense has continued to decline, and now his walk-year WAR is just +2.0. Still, the Cardinals made him a qualifying offer, so this time around, any team signing him would have to forfeit a draft pick in order to do so.
 
Two years older. Not as good of a player as he was. Compensation attached. This time, 3 years and $45 million.
 
There might not be a more clear sign of the changing economics of MLB than Carlos Beltran. Sure, the market occasionally misses on players and we shouldn’t expect Beltran to sign bargain deals every time he hits free agency just because he did last time. But this is a significant bump in valuation, despite the fact that Beltran is objectively worse by just about any measure you want to look at. If this version of Carlos Beltran is worth 3/$45M and the loss of a draft pick, what would this market think the Beltran of two years ago was worth?
 
There is just so much money in baseball right now that we have to be careful when comparing deals being signed now to deals signed in the past, even the recent past.
 
 
 

YTF

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Hoplite said:
Red Sox have approximately $6.5 million left to spend (Speier's calculation include a $5 million rainy day fund for the trade deadline), but they also have six starters and eight relievers. They could free up another $13-14.5 million by trading Dempster or Peavy. The Diamondbacks are reportedly looking for a veteran starting pitcher and they have two shortstops. We could trade Dempster or Peavy for Didi Gregorious or Chris Owings and we'd have our bench player. That would give us the salary to sign Choo (if his contract demands are reasonable) or Hart. If we sign Hart, we could trade Gomes and free up another $5 million. If the Dodgers get really desperate we could trade for Kemp, but I'm not crazy about the idea. Jackie Bradley Jr. will be fine. But just in case, I'd sign an elite defensive player like Tony Gwynn Jr. to a minor league contract as insurance.

There's plenty of salary room to continue to improve. And we have plenty of trade chips both at the major league level and in the minors. The Winter Meetings should be a lot of fun.
 
 
Just a couple of thoughts here......I liked the idea of Hart at 1B and getting occasional starts in the OF to get Carp some time at first if Napoli didn't re-up. Signing Hart now would make him primarily an outfielder. There may be concerns using him there all of the time after missing all of last season due to knee surgery. I like the idea of moving Dempster or Peavy (preferably Dempster) but in a deal similar to what you've suggested I can't see many teams giving up a young cost controlled player AND absorbing 13-14.5M. At least not for either of those guys, so you're def going to have to eat a part of the contract, which is OK, but not going to save as much as hoped.
 

Drek717

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Danny_Darwin said:
 
Hm. I do recall they tried to get Peavy at the deadline, and their GM does know him from their San Diego days. That said, Didi or Owings seems like a high cost to me.
I'd bet any conversations with Arizona would hinge around the availability of Nava.  They need a LF bat, Nava could be spelled against LHP with Ross and getting their 4th OF into RF.  But then the only way the Sox would do that is if they either A. believe Carp could play LF acceptably well in Fenway or B. have another LF option in mind, likely someone who would platoon well with Gomes (Choo and Ethier for example).
 

ToeKneeArmAss

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BeantownIdaho said:
As crazy as this may seem to some, I would like to see them dump Peavy and Dempster and use the prospects to get Brett Anderson from the A's. Yes, he has had some injury issues, but the upside to a 25 year old, 6'4 lefty who has shown good stuff could be worth it. Ben is all about players coming off down/injury years... and it frees up 20+ million as flexibility.  If it fails, I feel we have pitchers on the horizon who could fill in at #5.
 
And who exactly are these trading partners that would be willing to give up prospects and take on Peavy and Dempster's contracts without subsidization?  Not sure you've thought this one through.
 

knucklecup

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ToeKneeArmAss said:
 
And who exactly are these trading partners that would be willing to give up prospects and take on Peavy and Dempster's contracts without subsidization?  Not sure you've thought this one through.
I'm not sure you have either. Scott Feldman received a 3 year/$30 million dollar deal yesterday. He is an awful pitcher.
 

lxt

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Sep 12, 2012
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joe dokes said:
 
Brandon Phillips? Trying to avoid his 3rd stright sub 100 OPS+
Santana would be a good move. I'm not sold on Ubaldo's half season rise from the dead (but its possible). Garza and Farty Colon? Bring 'em on.
 
The only thing Zito, Oswalt, Saunders and Halladay are filling out these days are uniforms.  Gavin Floyd probably wont pitch in 2014.(TJ). Lannan has rarely been good, and is coming off major knee surgery. Maholm has been a mediocre NL pitcher for years.
Chris Perez hasnt really been good for a couple of years now. Neither has Axford.
Most of these moves put the Yankees on a crash course with abject mediocrity.
 
Hoplite's thoughts are reasonable but debateable.  They certainly aren't a necessity. At least not with respect to the Yankees. The NYs have a good outfield and a good catcher and 2 or 3 good starting pitchers. They have a second baseman who is league average at best, a 34 y/o first baseman coming off wrist surgery (whose full-season OPS+ trajectory is 141,124,121,115), one shortstop who cant play shortstop and another that cant hit 200. They have one rangeless 3rd baseman who might be above league average but who also might be suspended for the season, and another whose in the midst of age and injury decline (wait...is Youk a FA?).
 
At the moment, the only scary thing about these Yankees is the possibility that their radio broadcast team willl start making sex noises on the air.
You missed the point. The Yankees by giving up Cano and freeing up his money may be a better team because the Yankees will fill more holes than they would have with Cano.
 
Phillips is a solid player with respectable wOBA, wRC+ and WAR with solid defensive numbers. Agree he is not Cano but not a bad fill in with the likes of McCann, the OF and a healthy Teixeira. Add Santana & Garza to the rotation and they have five guys to throw at people. Adding to the pen gives them depth to deal with subpar performances from the starters. Trading from a surplus of OF ... Gardner's name is popping often and he has the talent to get them another arm ... Wells is cheap thanks to LAA,  Soriano is cheap thanks to the Cubs and Ichrio is not at all that expensive ... more potential for arms.
 
I think you are under estimating what's happening in New York.
 
I'm saying Hoplite makes a lot of sense with his summation of what would be useful. Adding Choo in LF would solidify the offense and provide flexibility in the OF, well almost. Adding a solid backup SS/IF, through offering a subsides starter like Peavy or Dempster,  fills an important hole. Not sure about Hart or Kemp but Choo and the SS/IF from D'Backs sounds about right.
 

BeantownIdaho

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Dec 5, 2005
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ToeKneeArmAss said:
 
And who exactly are these trading partners that would be willing to give up prospects and take on Peavy and Dempster's contracts without subsidization?  Not sure you've thought this one through.
It has already been established that they have received interest in their starters. With 1 year contracts and what seems now to be a decent price given the market, I am sure Boston could find a trading partner with teams who miss out on FA's or  wait for teams who suffer an injury in the Spring. Would Anderson be available in the Spring? Who knows??? THings are moving very fast and it appears teams cannot afford to wait around for a FA or a trade...and we are not even to the Winter Meetings. It seems like there are still many surprises out there. Besides isn't this thread titled...Hot Stove WISHES?
 

joe dokes

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lxt said:
You missed the point. The Yankees by giving up Cano and freeing up his money may be a better team because the Yankees will fill more holes than they would have with Cano.
 
Phillips is a solid player with respectable wOBA, wRC+ and WAR with solid defensive numbers. Agree he is not Cano but not a bad fill in with the likes of McCann, the OF and a healthy Teixeira. Add Santana & Garza to the rotation and they have five guys to throw at people. Adding to the pen gives them depth to deal with subpar performances from the starters. Trading from a surplus of OF ... Gardner's name is popping often and he has the talent to get them another arm ... Wells is cheap thanks to LAA,  Soriano is cheap thanks to the Cubs and Ichrio is not at all that expensive ... more potential for arms.
 
I think you are under estimating what's happening in New York.
 
I'm saying Hoplite makes a lot of sense with his summation of what would be useful. Adding Choo in LF would solidify the offense and provide flexibility in the OF, well almost. Adding a solid backup SS/IF, through offering a subsides starter like Peavy or Dempster,  fills an important hole. Not sure about Hart or Kemp but Choo and the SS/IF from D'Backs sounds about right.
 
I didn't miss any point. Cano's contract would not have prevented the Yankees from "filling any holes."  Phillips plays good defense. He's a league average offensive player.
 
They have no choice but to "add to the pen" since they on,ly have 1 relief pitcher right now of any use (Robertson). Ichiro & Wells  are "cheap" because they "suck".  There is no "need" to add Choo; and it becomes less of a "need" when the cost is figured in. A "healthy" Texiera is still a nearly-old Teixiera who was in decline before he got hurt.
 
We'll just have to agree to see these things differently.  As currently constituted, I dont see the Yankees winning more games than they did last year. Beyond that, there's nothing abouth them in particular that puts the Sox in a position where they *have* to do something.
 

YTF

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Hoplite said:
Red Sox have approximately $6.5 million left to spend (Speier's calculation include a $5 million rainy day fund for the trade deadline), but they also have six starters and eight relievers. They could free up another $13-14.5 million by trading Dempster or Peavy. The Diamondbacks are reportedly looking for a veteran starting pitcher and they have two shortstops. We could trade Dempster or Peavy for Didi Gregorious or Chris Owings and we'd have our bench player. That would give us the salary to sign Choo (if his contract demands are reasonable) or Hart. If we sign Hart, we could trade Gomes and free up another $5 million. If the Dodgers get really desperate we could trade for Kemp, but I'm not crazy about the idea. Jackie Bradley Jr. will be fine. But just in case, I'd sign an elite defensive player like Tony Gwynn Jr. to a minor league contract as insurance.

There's plenty of salary room to continue to improve. And we have plenty of trade chips both at the major league level and in the minors. The Winter Meetings should be a lot of fun.
 
 
Just for shits and giggles I have another thought on your idea here. Let's explore the D' Backs as trade partners for a minute. I have no idea if this is feasible or not, BUT set aside the idea of Gregorious or Owens. Martin Prado, age 30, making 11M per for the next 3 seasons. Good solid EVERYDAY player, very flexible. Would be your starting 3rd baseman, platoon LF and backup 2nd baseman.  Let Xander play SS and back up 3rd base. Send Arizona Middlebrooks (earliest arbitration eligible 2015...FA eligible 2019), their choice of Dempster or Peavey with prob one or two lessers going either going way. Sox improve at 3rd base and bolster their bench through Prado's flexibility, shed a little payroll in doing so and Arizona gains some payroll relief in '15 and '16 as well as a young cost controlled 3B with ML experience who may still find himself.
 

lxt

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joe dokes said:
 
I didn't miss any point. Cano's contract would not have prevented the Yankees from "filling any holes."  Phillips plays good defense. He's a league average offensive player.
 
They have no choice but to "add to the pen" since they on,ly have 1 relief pitcher right now of any use (Robertson). Ichiro & Wells  are "cheap" because they "suck".  There is no "need" to add Choo; and it becomes less of a "need" when the cost is figured in. A "healthy" Texiera is still a nearly-old Teixiera who was in decline before he got hurt.
 
We'll just have to agree to see these things differently.  As currently constituted, I dont see the Yankees winning more games than they did last year. Beyond that, there's nothing abouth them in particular that puts the Sox in a position where they *have* to do something.
I agree, let us disagree, watch the season play out and then one of us will have bragging rights and can tell the other "I told you so".
 

MakMan44

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EDIT: This is at YTF
 
So you're basically suggesting we let the DBacks fleece us then?
 
Giving up Middlebrooks, who's power is important to the Sox, straight up for Prado would be a bad idea. 
 

YTF

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MakMan44 said:
EDIT: This is at YTF
 
So you're basically suggesting we let the DBacks fleece us then?
 
Giving up Middlebrooks, who's power is important to the Sox, straight up for Prado would be a bad idea. 
 Not actually "suggesting" anything. As I said, for shits and giggles. Thinking out loud. A lot of folks here are looking to replace Middlebrooks or platoon him. Others have him being replace in another year or two in house. Some suggest the Sox bring Drew back and move Xander over to 3B. Others are looking for a way to trim payroll by moving Dempster or Peavey. Prob is that's not happening unless you take another contract back. Prado is a solid player who for the next 3 seasons gives you a ton of flexibility, may eliminate the clamoring to pick up another outfielder should JBJ not cut it, can spell Pedroia every so often at 2B. Fuck, as far as I'm concerned you can keep Middlebrooks and let him back up/platoon with Prado, let Prado split time at 3B and LF  
 

keninten

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Nov 24, 2005
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YTF said:
 Not actually "suggesting" anything. As I said, for shits and giggles. Thinking out loud. A lot of folks here are looking to replace Middlebrooks or platoon him. Others have him being replace in another year or two in house. Some suggest the Sox bring Drew back and move Xander over to 3B. Others are looking for a way to trim payroll by moving Dempster or Peavey. Prob is that's not happening unless you take another contract back. Prado is a solid player who for the next 3 seasons gives you a ton of flexibility, may eliminate the clamoring to pick up another outfielder should JBJ not cut it, can spell Pedroia every so often at 2B. Fuck, as far as I'm concerned you can keep Middlebrooks and let him back up/platoon with Prado, let Prado split time at 3B and LF  
Peavey for Prado would be kick ass. Dempster for Prado a fleecing.
 

MakMan44

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YTF said:
 Not actually "suggesting" anything. As I said, for shits and giggles. Thinking out loud. A lot of folks here are looking to replace Middlebrooks or platoon him. Others have him being replace in another year or two in house. Some suggest the Sox bring Drew back and move Xander over to 3B. Others are looking for a way to trim payroll by moving Dempster or Peavey. Prob is that's not happening unless you take another contract back. Prado is a solid player who for the next 3 seasons gives you a ton of flexibility, may eliminate the clamoring to pick up another outfielder should JBJ not cut it, can spell Pedroia every so often at 2B. Fuck, as far as I'm concerned you can keep Middlebrooks and let him back up/platoon with Prado, let Prado split time at 3B and LF  
Just so I'M clear on the bolded, are you talking about Prado in that specific scenario? 
 

YTF

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In THAT specific scenario sure. Using The D'Backs as an example in response to hoplite's post up thread. What I'm not talking about is Owings or Gregoious and THAT is where this stems from. I can't see Arizona moving one of those young players for Peavey or Dempster as mentioned up thread to clear salary space. AZ is not likely to move one of these guys AND absorb 13-14.5M for Peavster. My example was a way to move one of these guys and in return get a guy who can step in and start, play several positions, address the 3b issue that many here would like to address and at the same time get a guy who at 11M per is under contract at a reasonable price for the nest three seasons. I think it's pretty clear that as things stand right now one (if not two) of the Sox starting pitchers is going to be dealt. Most likely either Dempster or Peavey. So if your going to have to subsidize for a prospect might Prado not be a horrible way to go? The contract length and $$$ fits into the model that The Sox seem to be following as well as his ability to play multiple positions with a short bench which is a HUGE benefit.  Some people want Drew back. He made 9.5M last season and I'm sure looking for more next season as a FA. Probably looking for more than I one year deal as well. Do you see Prado a worse option at 11M per?
 
Just curious, what's your thought on the SS/3B situation for next season?
 

joe dokes

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lxt said:
I agree, let us disagree, watch the season play out and then one of us will have bragging rights and can tell the other "I told you so".
 
FWIW--The Yankess could win 45 games and I wont say "I told you so."
 

benhogan

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joe dokes said:
 
I didn't miss any point. Cano's contract would not have prevented the Yankees from "filling any holes."  Phillips plays good defense. He's a league average offensive player.
 
They have no choice but to "add to the pen" since they on,ly have 1 relief pitcher right now of any use (Robertson). Ichiro & Wells  are "cheap" because they "suck".  There is no "need" to add Choo; and it becomes less of a "need" when the cost is figured in. A "healthy" Texiera is still a nearly-old Teixiera who was in decline before he got hurt.
 
We'll just have to agree to see these things differently.  As currently constituted, I dont see the Yankees winning more games than they did last year. Beyond that, there's nothing abouth them in particular that puts the Sox in a position where they *have* to do something.
Agreed. And I'll add the upgrade of Ellsbury over Brett Gardener in CF isn't that great, certainly not worth the extra $21MM.  It's a head scratcher that they just didn't try to extend Gardener and use those savings for pitching.  Now they combine that with overpaying for another OF/DH in Beltran. By next season they could be rotating 6 players through the DH slot (McCann, Beltran, Soriano, ARod, Jeter, Texeira).  Its as if they have no direction/plan whatsoever.  Unlike Tampa Bay, who shrewdly picks up Hannigan for a song, has young/cost controlled players, and assets to trade (Price).  
 
Tampa is the team I keep my eye on. The Yanks are cooked.
 

MakMan44

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YTF said:
In THAT specific scenario sure. Using The D'Backs as an example in response to hoplite's post up thread. What I'm not talking about is Owings or Gregoious and THAT is where this stems from. I can't see Arizona moving one of those young players for Peavey or Dempster as mentioned up thread to clear salary space. AZ is not likely to move one of these guys AND absorb 13-14.5M for Peavster. My example was a way to move one of these guys and in return get a guy who can step in and start, play several positions, address the 3b issue that many here would like to address and at the same time get a guy who at 11M per is under contract at a reasonable price for the nest three seasons. I think it's pretty clear that as things stand right now one (if not two) of the Sox starting pitchers is going to be dealt. Most likely either Dempster or Peavey. So if your going to have to subsidize for a prospect might Prado not be a horrible way to go? The contract length and $$$ fits into the model that The Sox seem to be following as well as his ability to play multiple positions with a short bench which is a HUGE benefit.  Some people want Drew back. He made 9.5M last season and I'm sure looking for more next season as a FA. Probably looking for more than I one year deal as well. Do you see Prado a worse option at 11M per?
 
Just curious, what's your thought on the SS/3B situation for next season?
I think that Prado has a lot of value, enough that he's not going to be someone the DBack's just give up even if we subsidize either contract. He's their starting 3rd baseman for a reason and you're going to have to include prospects to bring him back, in addition to whichever pitcher you want to send their way.
 
Regardless, I'd like to see Middlebrooks be given every opportunity to win the starting 3rd base job, at least to open the season. Obviously, I think he gets less rope than he did last season but his power is very real and that's valuable.
 
I prefer Middlebrooks at 3rd and X at SS but I'm not against acquiring some depth at either position, I just don't see acquiring anyone that's been suggested yet (Owens, Drew, Gregorious or Prado) as bench depth, I see them as starters.
 

The Boomer

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YTF said:
In THAT specific scenario sure. Using The D'Backs as an example in response to hoplite's post up thread. What I'm not talking about is Owings or Gregoious and THAT is where this stems from. I can't see Arizona moving one of those young players for Peavey or Dempster as mentioned up thread to clear salary space. AZ is not likely to move one of these guys AND absorb 13-14.5M for Peavster. My example was a way to move one of these guys and in return get a guy who can step in and start, play several positions, address the 3b issue that many here would like to address and at the same time get a guy who at 11M per is under contract at a reasonable price for the nest three seasons. I think it's pretty clear that as things stand right now one (if not two) of the Sox starting pitchers is going to be dealt. Most likely either Dempster or Peavey. So if your going to have to subsidize for a prospect might Prado not be a horrible way to go? The contract length and $$$ fits into the model that The Sox seem to be following as well as his ability to play multiple positions with a short bench which is a HUGE benefit.  Some people want Drew back. He made 9.5M last season and I'm sure looking for more next season as a FA. Probably looking for more than I one year deal as well. Do you see Prado a worse option at 11M per?
 
Just curious, what's your thought on the SS/3B situation for next season?
 
To make the roster work, Prado would be the ultimate deep depth acquisition. He can fill in adequately at every position except probably CF.  Even there, he has speed that could make him competent if necessary.  A quality reserve like Prado could essentially give breathers to different regulars 5 days per week rotating positions as maybe the best utility man out there.  Cesar Tovar type players are few and far between.
 
With Napoli back, it seems like either Nava or Carp becomes surplus.  With someone like Prado, both could be cost effectively retained or either could be dealt. The Diamondbacks have an extra outfielder too with Eaton, Parra, Pollock and Ross competing for PT with Prado.  Hill, Gregorious, Owings and Davidson (who slots in as their regular 3B before the end of next season) are also vying with Prado for regular playing time.  I would consider Lackey straight up for Prado with Dempster and Peavy serving as placeholders until Workman or another of their upper level blue chip starters is ready. With their depth of young pitching, I don't see where Trading 2 out of 3 among Lackey, Dempster and Peavy will end up similarly to the Arroyo deal.  Cherington seems unafraid to stick to his plan.  Rather than risky big ticket signings, he is identifying undervalued assets still in their primes to play with their quality homegrown youngsters who they purposely promote without wastefully costly declining or past their prime veterans blocking their chances.  
 

MakMan44

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BeantownIdaho said:
IF the outfield is a place that could be upgraded, rather than a trade for Kemp or a deal for Choo....what about taking a flyer on Sizemore?
That's not a terrible idea but he's a guy you sign to a MiL deal, not someone you plan on actually being a part of your depth. 
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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The Boomer said:
 
To make the roster work, Prado would be the ultimate deep depth acquisition. He can fill in adequately at every position except probably CF.  Even there, he has speed that could make him competent if necessary.  A quality reserve like Prado could essentially give breathers to different regulars 5 days per week rotating positions as maybe the best utility man out there.  Cesar Tovar type players are few and far between.
 
With Napoli back, it seems like either Nava or Carp becomes surplus.  With someone like Prado, both could be cost effectively retained or either could be dealt. The Diamondbacks have an extra outfielder too with Eaton, Parra, Pollock and Ross competing for PT with Prado.  Hill, Gregorious, Owings and Davidson (who slots in as their regular 3B before the end of next season) are also vying with Prado for regular playing time.  I would consider Lackey straight up for Prado with Dempster and Peavy serving as placeholders until Workman or another of their upper level blue chip starters is ready. With their depth of young pitching, I don't see where Trading 2 out of 3 among Lackey, Dempster and Peavy will end up similarly to the Arroyo deal.  Cherington seems unafraid to stick to his plan.  Rather than risky big ticket signings, he is identifying undervalued assets still in their primes to play with their quality homegrown youngsters who they purposely promote without wastefully costly declining or past their prime veterans blocking their chances.  
 
Nava and Carp made it through the entire 2013 season on the same roster with Napoli, which worked out okay, so I'm not sure how either suddenly qualify as surplus now with no further additions to the roster.  Prado would be a dream scenario pick-up as a utility guy, but I just don't see the D-backs doing a one for one trade for Lackey (or Dempster or Peavy).  I think he'd probably cost more than that.
 
Prado represents to them much what he would represent to the Sox.  They've got a young infield, particularly their left side, just like the Sox do.  I think they'd want to keep him around as insurance against backsliding amongst their youngsters just like we'd want him in the same role in Boston.  He's a pipedream, IMO.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
I dunno, I suspect nearly any team in baseball would leap to accept John Lackey right now in exchange for a 30-year-old utility guy making $33M over the next three years. The question is why the hell we would do that. If Prado is worth that money, it's as a starter. Do we have a starting job for him? If not, we should pass. And if the D'Backs are going to subsidize him they're going to want a lot in return, because their main incentive to trade him would presumably be as salary relief.
 
In short, I don't see the fit.
 

dynomite

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My wish list:
 
- Trade Dempster for a prospect and/or utility infielder 
- Sign Rajai Davis to a 2 year/$7 million deal 
- Sign Grady Sizemore to an MiL deal
 
That's it.
 
1) Drew: I loved Stephen Drew in 2013, but in 2014 (and beyond) Middlebrooks is our 3B (32 HR in his first 169 games) and Xander is our SS, with Cecchini banging on the door.  We need a utility infielder, not another infield starter.
 
2) Dempster: I think Lester/Buchholz/Lackey/Peavy/Doubront is a very stable and capable rotation.  And in the event of the certain injuries during the course of the season, it makes much more sense to give the kids (Webster/Ranaudo/de la Rosa/Wright/etc.) a look instead of having Dempster eat those innings.
 
3) Davis: I'm on board with starting JBJ, but I think we need a legitimate insurance plan, and with Ellsbury gone we could use a speedster as the 4th OF, especially when people like Vic Torino will need some days off throughout the season.  Sizemore's a huge longshot, but we're in a good enough position to afford a few longshots.
 

Devizier

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Savin Hillbilly said:
I dunno, I suspect nearly any team in baseball would leap to accept John Lackey right now in exchange for a 30-year-old utility guy making $33M over the next three years. The question is why the hell we would do that. If Prado is worth that money, it's as a starter. Do we have a starting job for him? If not, we should pass. And if the D'Backs are going to subsidize him they're going to want a lot in return, because their main incentive to trade him would presumably be as salary relief.
 
In short, I don't see the fit.
 
Well, yeah. I wouldn't mind Prado backing up several positions - he was still a pretty good player in a down season last year - but he's not going to repeat 2012 anytime soon, and the most he should be worth to the Sox is someone like Dempster. This is why I have a hard time envisioning a deal getting done.