I'll take the overNothing anyone posts here in the next 24 hours is going to change or accomplish anything.
I'll take the overNothing anyone posts here in the next 24 hours is going to change or accomplish anything.
I don't disagree with the bolded. At this point, it has not driven good coaches here. But, it's only been one bad year for Mayo and Wolf. Let's see what happens with FA, the draft possibilities, and Maye in year 2.Becomes kind of a semantics thing bc maybe he does have plenty of relationships…but the only way it actually matters is if it drives good coaches into the building
I’m sure anyone who played and coached in the league knows a ton of people…but all that matters is actual followership and influence
I’m with you “on paper.” I realize these guys have not had much time. My concern is that I can find very very little to grasp onto as a sign that they are the right guys. The draft is almost a total miss outside of Maye, free agency was a miss…and there isn’t much Mayo has done well or done better over time. Now we’re seeing quotes from coaches, players and the GM that show a culture of very poor accountability. We’re also hearing that other organizations have a totally different structure with more resources.I don't disagree with the bolded. At this point, it has not driven good coaches here. But, it's only been one bad year for Mayo and Wolf. Let's see what happens with FA, the draft possibilities, and Maye in year 2.
You are going to the extreme in saying that anyone bringing the lack of contacts factor up is meaning he has zero of them which just isn’t true. He certainly knows people. But there’s a difference between knowing someone and having a working relationship with them. Other coaches/staff are more likely going to feel more comfortable recommending a person for a job to somebody they have worked with in the past or have a connection through somebody else. There’s a trust factor. The athletics business is all about relationships having worked in it for almost 20 years. You can be as well respected as you want as Mayo is, but he just hasn’t been anywhere else besides NE and hasn’t been a coach for a long time so logically his network is smaller than someone who’s worked in multiple orgs and it is a factor when it comes to building a quality staff out.The reality is, nobody here knows who Mayo knows in the league, who he has relationships, or who he has for contacts. Yet, it is made out as fact that he doesn't know anyone or has a relationship with anyone. The man has been in the league for 15+ years. It's absolutely crazy to think he has not networked outside of this team or in league circles. And again, the man was very well respected as a player and assistant coach in the league BEFORE he was hired. So, yes, you are making shit up to validate wanting him fired.
There are very valid reasons other coaches did not come here. A rookie HC, the overall state of team and those coaches expectations of where the team would be at years end, interest from better teams, QB play from a vet backup/rookie QB, Kraft keeping staff and development/analytics teams small, coaches and families not wanting to live in NE, etc.
The only posters who have said anything about Mayo not having contacts/relationships around the league are those loudest about wanting him fired. That is not evidence.
I’m with you “on paper.” I realize these guys have not had much time. My concern is that I can find very very little to grasp onto as a sign that they are the right guys. The draft is almost a total miss outside of Maye, free agency was a miss…and there isn’t much Mayo has done well or done better over time. Now we’re seeing quotes from coaches, players and the GM that show a culture of very poor accountability. We’re also hearing that other organizations have a totally different structure with more resources.
I just don’t see any evidence that Mayo or Wolf deserve to keep the reigns of a multi billion dollar organization.
I think if he's keeping him, it comes out before the game tomorrow. Ends the suspense, motivates the team and, most importantly, grabs the coaching decision spotlight for himselfDo we think we hear from Kraft either way on Monday? If he is firing Mayo or Wolf I would imagine we would hear on Monday or Tuesday at the latest.
However, in the alternative, if he is keeping Mayo do we hear from him on Monday to quell the noise, or is silence an assumption that he is staying?
Bill wasn’t formally fired until Wednesday/Thursday following the Jets loss last year.Do we think we hear from Kraft either way on Monday? If he is firing Mayo or Wolf I would imagine we would hear on Monday or Tuesday at the latest.
However, in the alternative, if he is keeping Mayo do we hear from him on Monday to quell the noise, or is silence an assumption that he is staying?
Eh. Get used to it. I called him on it a few weeks ago and simply had the post deleted. DMed him asking why and got a sarcastic reply. Hell, pretty good chance this one gets deleted too.Please ban my account. I'm not going to participate on a forum that has a mod abusing his authority and moderating users opinions. Especially when he has reading comprehension issues.
Is there any evidence he was “very well respected” as an inside linebackers coach by anyone outside of the Pats inner circle?The reality is, nobody here knows who Mayo knows in the league, who he has relationships, or who he has for contacts. Yet, it is made out as fact that he doesn't know anyone or has a relationship with anyone. The man has been in the league for 15+ years. It's absolutely crazy to think he has not networked outside of this team or in league circles. And again, the man was very well respected as a player and assistant coach in the league BEFORE he was hired. So, yes, you are making shit up to validate wanting him fired.
There are very valid reasons other coaches did not come here. A rookie HC, the overall state of team and those coaches expectations of where the team would be at years end, interest from better teams, QB play from a vet backup/rookie QB, Kraft keeping staff and development/analytics teams small, coaches and families not wanting to live in NE, etc.
The only posters who have said anything about Mayo not having contacts/relationships around the league are those loudest about wanting him fired. That is not evidence.
I just dont think we have the luxury. The development of Drake Maye is too important to entrust to Mayo, who at this point looks far closer to a buffoon than a savant.I don't disagree with the bolded. At this point, it has not driven good coaches here. But, it's only been one bad year for Mayo and Wolf. Let's see what happens with FA, the draft possibilities, and Maye in year 2.
Did he give any rationale or is this just a gut feeling?
Basically, the last month has shifted the feelings in the building. Performance, Fan unrest etc... Feeling pressure to make a change. No direct quotes from anyone.Did he give any rationale or is this just a gut feeling?
Maye’s quotes are a good indication of this. By all accounts, he’s a good guy. He just seems to be a good guy who was put into a situation that he was nowhere near ready for. And that’s not Mayo’s fault, that’s Kraft’s.One of my fears is that the team rallies around him and pulls it out today. Players most typically have loyalty for their coach, whether it has been earned or not. You work with someone closely for a year, spend a lot of time with them, unless the person is a jerk - you usually are going to feel loyalty to them.
I mean reality is they can probably line up almost any candidate that wants to coach right now because of Maye and all their assets. They might have to commit to firing Wolf, but I don’t think lining up a top coaching candidate would be too difficult atm.Phil Perry on the 98.5 pregame said he thought they wouldn’t fire Mayo unless they had Vrabel lined up.
View: https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1875941273317539993?s=46Did he give any rationale or is this just a gut feeling?
Well, they at least have to go through the motions of a search this time for Rooney reasonsHopefully they aren't committing the same mistake again and just anointing Vrabel. Clean house and do an actual search.
Have to think they are going to blow everyone out if they are bringing someone like Vrabel in. I still run good sham search though in interviewing Flores, Ben Johnson, Aaron Glenn and others just to say you actually went through a process whether its sham or not.Obviously speculation but I always felt that the sudden local media blitz of "Vrabel and only Vrabel can save us" felt like a push by Jonathan. Breer recently talking about Jonathan not being a Mayo fan and any change likely being him convincing his father only solidified it.
I assume they do a quick sham process then hire Vrabel. Probably makes the team better next year he's a solid coach. But doesn't really fix structural issues
I don't particularly feel bad for him, in part because this is what he signed up for. He could have gone to another team as the DC/playcaller previously and gotten a lot of the experience he needed, he chose to stay for the guarantee of the HC job even if that meant stagnation while he waited for the coach (who didn't ask him to he HC in waiting) to leave.I legitimately feel bad for Mayo.
He had limited experience and was thrown into the worst roster situation in the league. I don't think he has shown to be a good head coach but it was basically doomed from the start.
I hope he lands on his feet and ends up as a successful D coordinator or something. Maybe even someday he could try out HC again.... but at this point he is in over his head and a change is certainly needed for the 2025 Patriots.
I just hope he doesn't gift us a win on his way out.
Always appreciate an organization letting reporters know that they plan to do something the league is already being sued for.
Flirting with disaster, eh?As a Dolphins fan, I want the Patriots to keep Mayo.
Generally, it's smart to give first-time HC a lot of patience, as growing pains are to be expected. The caveat, however, is when the first season is a bonafide disaster. While that may be a tad bit too strong a language to describe Mayo's first season, it's certainly flirted with being so.
And when you consider the following: 1) Kraft's age. 2) Having the franchise QB in place. 3) Possibly having the #1 overall pick ... the franchise will likely never be in position to attract the right leader as HC. Can you risk it by bringing Mayo back?
IMO, no way.
I hope I'm wrong, though. Because Vrabel in New England next year is too fucking perfect.
My assumption is.... Bob made the call, Jonathan wanted Vrabel, The combination of Mayo being his project, plus the buyout money pushed Bob to stick to his guns. Now... Vrabel is still out there, Jon is still pushing, and public opinion, both among fans and analysts is that Vrabel is a much better coach.... which pushes him back over the line.Smoke signals seem to be Vrabel to Pats. I don’t get why they didn’t hire him last year or why Bobby is so quick to dump his guy but it is what it is. Hopefully Woody gets into a bidding war to at least make Kraft pay him a ton of money.
In some ways a CEO type to NE might be better for me than you guys gettin Liam Coen so silver lining and all that.
This fits so easily into a pre-existing NFL narrative, throw in Boston and there will be some blowback even if I think it’s the correct football decision.Always appreciate an organization letting reporters know that they plan to do something the league is already being sued for.
Have to agree with this. Jonathan not being at the Mayo press conference was the first hint that he might not have been on board with this.My assumption is.... Bob made the call, Jonathan wanted Vrabel, The combination of Mayo being his project, plus the buyout money pushed Bob to stick to his guns. Now... Vrabel is still out there, Jon is still pushing, and public opinion, both among fans and analysts is that Vrabel is a much better coach.... which pushes him back over the line.
He had that moronic $10 million clause about becoming the next HC, so it was probably a combination of true belief in his coaching potential and not wanting to pay out that 10 milly.Smoke signals seem to be Vrabel to Pats. I don’t get why they didn’t hire him last year or why Bobby is so quick to dump his guy but it is what it is. Hopefully Woody gets into a bidding war to at least make Kraft pay him a ton of money.
In some ways a CEO type to NE might be better for me than you guys gettin Liam Coen so silver lining and all that.
Certainly it's in part his own doing, though I think it's hard to expect anyone to purposely avoid a HC job if it's on the table. Just because in theory he probably should have known this was a likely outcome, I can still feel bad for him.I don't particularly feel bad for him, in part because this is what he signed up for. He could have gone to another team as the DC/playcaller previously and gotten a lot of the experience he needed, he chose to stay for the guarantee of the HC job even if that meant stagnation while he waited for the coach (who didn't ask him to he HC in waiting) to leave.
I will also say... lot of things happened along the way to change his mind. Mayo really struggled to find coaches to fill his staff, doubt that was in Kraft's vision, I also wonder if dangling Wolf, then not doing a search was because in backchannels, the top GM candidates didn't want to come be tied to Mayo (the coach being hired first usually means he has more pull with the owners), the offseason was a mess, the defense fell apart (I assume part of the thought was Mayo could run BB's D and have similar success), there were all of the embarrassing public missteps with the press, national mockery both of Mayo and Kraft, looking at the worst record in the league when you expected to be better......He had that moronic $10 million clause about becoming the next HC, so it was probably a combination of true belief in his coaching potential and not wanting to pay out that 10 milly.
The GM will be crucial too... does he bring a vet guy who is in line but a strong counter to him... or does he bring a 1st timer he thinks he can run over?I'm fine if not overly thrilled with the idea of Vrabel. His choice of OC will be crucial. He'll certainly bring competence back. I think we are all thirsting for just a return to postseason football.
Did Vrabel get along with Jon Robinson? Dimitroff and Pioli are other namesThe GM will be crucial too... does he bring a vet guy who is in line but a strong counter to him... or does he bring a 1st timer he thinks he can run over?
He hired Matt LaFleur as his first OC and then had Arthur Smith who did go on to be a HC himself. I’m not worried about him finding the OC. He has a good network around the league and is a respected coach. If he has Drake Maye he can get a pretty good OC in my opinion.I'm fine if not overly thrilled with the idea of Vrabel. His choice of OC will be crucial. He'll certainly bring competence back. I think we are all thirsting for just a return to postseason football.