Hold the Mayo? Evaluating Patriots coaching.

Trapaholic

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To acquire coaching talent, it is going to take capital. Trades for coaches are rare. Usually, it is real money that needs to be spent.

We have seen OC's get head coaching jobs, especially the new-school more innovative guys that have come from the Shanahan/McVey/LaFleur pipeline. It is either that or hire a college guy that will install his program.

Either way, these guys cost money. So you essentially have to spend a lot of money and/or have some untapped talent on the roster that would be attractive to a new coaching staff. Mike McDaniel signed an extension that is somewhere between $3.5-$4 million before the season. Not a great example given what we just saw, but that is a good idea of what a new, innovative coach would command.

With Maye in the fold and some young wide receivers, I guess you could squint hard and see that there is something there on offense that a new, offensive-minded coach could build upon. Back to the money, I am just not convinced that the Krafts would spend a lot of money to bring in a new, hot shot coach.

I am pretty sure BB was making a lot of money compared to other coaches, but he also did the job of 3 or 4 people. There has been some big time Brain Drain on this staff and I am not sure what the answer is going forward. I am not calling for Mayo's job, but going with a defense-first coach and then handing the offense to a journeyman with little play calling background is incredibly frustrating.
 

Silverdude2167

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I'm more in the first fire Wolf camp.

I think two things.

- Any GM that learned under BB is going to not fully grasp the magic coach BB can cook up with scraps.

- Wolf was far more involved in personal moves when BB was here than people want to say and he whispered in Krafts ear that he could do better look at Harry.

I draw these assumptions from his first off-season, resigning BBs guys and basically not doing anything different except being more conservative in FA.

Also I think he massively failed on the line and should be fired for not really even trying to fix it.
 
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lexrageorge

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To acquire coaching talent, it is going to take capital. Trades for coaches are rare. Usually, it is real money that needs to be spent.

We have seen OC's get head coaching jobs, especially the new-school more innovative guys that have come from the Shanahan/McVey/LaFleur pipeline. It is either that or hire a college guy that will install his program.

Either way, these guys cost money. So you essentially have to spend a lot of money and/or have some untapped talent on the roster that would be attractive to a new coaching staff. Mike McDaniel signed an extension that is somewhere between $3.5-$4 million before the season. Not a great example given what we just saw, but that is a good idea of what a new, innovative coach would command.

With Maye in the fold and some young wide receivers, I guess you could squint hard and see that there is something there on offense that a new, offensive-minded coach could build upon. Back to the money, I am just not convinced that the Krafts would spend a lot of money to bring in a new, hot shot coach.

I am pretty sure BB was making a lot of money compared to other coaches, but he also did the job of 3 or 4 people. There has been some big time Brain Drain on this staff and I am not sure what the answer is going forward. I am not calling for Mayo's job, but going with a defense-first coach and then handing the offense to a journeyman with little play calling background is incredibly frustrating.
I don't think this is entirely correct. There is nothing to indicate that Kraft will not pay money to hire a coach.

Anyone paying attention to the past few years knew that Mayo was essentially going to be the successor, whenever that was going to be. That may or may not end up being the correct move for this franchise, but it was the plan, and had nothing to do with money or a conversation Kraft had with Mayo at a nightclub.

Of course, one of the downsides is that they struggled to find an offensive coordinator. Mayo had no prior experience with another team, so there was nobody he could bring along. And the bigger names were not interested in working for a rookie coach on a rebuilding team. But finding a head coach is always easier; coordinators and college coaches join bad NFL teams all the time. So if Mayo were to be let go, the Pats could do what every other team in the league does. And there is no evidence that the Krafts don't have the budget to do that.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'm more in the first fire Wolf camp.

I think two things.

- Any GM that learned under BB is going to not fully grasp the magic coach BB fan cook up with scraps.

- Wolf was far more involved in personal moves when BB was here than people want to say and he whispered in Krafts ear that he could do better look at Harry.

I draw these assumptions from his first off-season, resigning BBs guys and basically not doing anything different except being more conservative in FA.

Also I think he massively failed on the line and should be fired for not really even trying to fix it.
I think this is crazy. GMs take years to evaluate, but Wolf's start is generally fine, he drafted a QB, he's tied to that QB.

As to the line.... he used 2 draft picks and signed 2 FAs... he obviously tried. We've discussed it a ton, but... what are the options people want other than "I wish he had signed guys who weren't interested?" He took the shots available to him, Okorafor was a clear miss for non-football reasons, it sucks, but that's life when you're not an option for the top couple guys (Smith, Brown) and it's a particularly bad year.


I don't think this is entirely correct. There is nothing to indicate that Kraft will not pay money to hire a coach.

Anyone paying attention to the past few years knew that Mayo was essentially going to be the successor, whenever that was going to be. That may or may not end up being the correct move for this franchise, but it was the plan, and had nothing to do with money or a conversation Kraft had with Mayo at a nightclub.

Of course, one of the downsides is that they struggled to find an offensive coordinator. Mayo had no prior experience with another team, so there was nobody he could bring along. And the bigger names were not interested in working for a rookie coach on a rebuilding team. But finding a head coach is always easier; coordinators and college coaches join bad NFL teams all the time. So if Mayo were to be let go, the Pats could do what every other team in the league does. And there is no evidence that the Krafts don't have the budget to do that.
Yeah, I don't think Kraft is cheap on coaches. I do think he's so obsessed with his own legacy and the idea of "the Patriot way" that he never really considered anyone who didn't have Patriots ties as his HC, and assistants are going to be reticent to sign up with Mayo and potentially de-rail their career on a guy they know nothing about other than "the owner likes him". Mike MacDonald is a young defensive coach who was only with 1 franchise.... but he seemed to have more interested OCs, likely because they knew who he was as a scheme creator and playcaller, which Mayo didn't have. From the outside Mayo has nothing to hang his hat on, and the roster is bad, nobody signs up to be the sacrificial assistant if they are a young up and comer.
 

Silverdude2167

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I think this is crazy. GMs take years to evaluate, but Wolf's start is generally fine, he drafted a QB, he's tied to that QB.

As to the line.... he used 2 draft picks and signed 2 FAs... he obviously tried. We've discussed it a ton, but... what are the options people want other than "I wish he had signed guys who weren't interested?" He took the shots available to him, Okorafor was a clear miss for non-football reasons, it sucks, but that's life when you're not an option for the top couple guys (Smith, Brown) and it's a particularly bad year.
Drafting a QB that anyone on this board could have drafted is not an impressive feat. Yes it's been talked about in other threads but drafting a wr in the second and not an O-line is a major error to me.

WRs are useless if the QB has no time, right now the top of the draft projects to be WRs. I would rather have gone OL last year and then WR this year.
 

Cellar-Door

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Drafting a QB that anyone on this board could have drafted is not an impressive feat. Yes it's been talked about in other threads but drafting a wr in the second and not an O-line is a major error to me.

WRs are useless if the QB has no time, right now the top of the draft projects to be WRs. I would rather have gone OL last year and then WR this year.
I find it a thoroughly unconvincing argument given the OL all went 20+ picks later. But even if that's the case... firing a guy because you don't like one of his picks without even seeing how it turns out is crazy shit.
 
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I find it a thoroughly unconvincing argument given the OL all went 20+ picks later. But even if that's the case... firing a guy because you don't like one of his picks without even seeing how it turns out is crazy shit.
Who’s to say one of those OL who “went 20+ picks later” wouldn’t have been worth 37?

It’s not like Polk was a consensus top 40 player. It’s possible he could have been around “20 picks later” as well (i.e. he had roughly the same value)

They took a low ceiling non-toolsy WR over trying to improve the OL. Fine, but it’s not like the rest of the draft class is doing anything. Robinson appears to be benched and the rest are works in progress at best.

As for needing years to evaluate Wolf, perhaps. But for a team which won 4 games last year, it’s baffling to me that people are suggesting he did a good or even adequate job improving the roster in the off-season.

He failed to address the defense, at all. Didn’t bother to add depth except for JAGs (Hawkins and Watts) and an injured LB

His plan to improve the OL was to sign a guy who was cut by an OL needy team because he was a headcase and hope to convert him to LT

His plan to improve (weaponize!) the offense was…a mostly washed Hooper and useless now-healthy scratch Osborn?

He got Gibson. Ok fine. The rest of the roster looks worse today than it did 12 months ago. If you’re rebuilding a bad roster it should be easy to find improvements.
 

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I still think Mayo could be really good: I trust he will learn and get better. He’s not yet. There you go.
Early returns on this are very unpromising as he screwed up the end of the first half in the exact identical way he screwed up the end of the first half against Seattle. That bodes ominously.
 

Cellar-Door

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Who’s to say one of those OL who “went 20+ picks later” wouldn’t have been worth 37?
Nothing, but the point is, you don't fire a guy after 5 games because he didn't reach for an OT, especially when the 3rd round pick was much closer to where those guys got drafted than the 2nd. The draft showed that if you wanted Polk 37 was the right place to take him, and that if you wanted an OT they were available later.

The overall point though remains.... this is a rebuild with a focus on 2025, 2026 and 2027, firing your GM even after 1 year would be insane. As to the rest... he did add depth... sure they were backups... that's what depth is. In a rebuild one of the more important things is to keep your cap in shape unless you are adding younger premium guys (he tried with Aiyuk for example).

if anything the worst move he made was probably extending Rhamondre.

And as to the draft... it's game 5 of the rookie year.... nobody outside the top 2-3 rounds is expected to contribute that early. Polk is playing plenty, yes the offense is a mess, but separation score and people watching tape think he's showing promise and getting open, Wallace was in the tackle rotation (just around the same as the guys taken in the late 2nd) before getting injured. Robinson has moved back to backup G, but he has played a lot more than most 4th rounders... it's WEEK 5, any decision on draft picks is at least 12 weeks too early.

Nobody is saying "wow Wolf killed it" they are saying "no reasonable human being should look at this and make any kind of negative judgement about his job because, 1. there is not enough information, 2. wins in 2024 was not the primary objective."
 

sezwho

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Early returns on this are very unpromising as he screwed up the end of the first half in the exact identical way he screwed up the end of the first half against Seattle. That bodes ominously.
I agree, this was crap. Worse, it isn’t where I would have expected to see a stumble given his own years of experience. Maybe the first thing he needs to do is take the keys from AVP.

In any case, he’s four games into a first season that (to me) is still impossibly smeared with BB roster and coaching malpractice. Totally get that’s not your opinion (I think I recall your take on the responsible party : ) but I’m still optimistic that he has a strong foundation in the NFL, a tremendous capacity to grow, and will succeed.
 

Cellar-Door

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I agree, this was crap. Worse, it isn’t where I would have expected to see a stumble given his own years of experience. Maybe the first thing he needs to do is take the keys from AVP.

In any case, he’s four games into a first season that (to me) is still impossibly smeared with BB roster and coaching malpractice. Totally get that’s not your opinion (I think I recall your take on the responsible party : ) but I’m still optimistic that he has a strong foundation in the NFL, a tremendous capacity to grow, and will succeed.
You think the guy who can't handle his job now needs to take over the offense? A guy who has been a defensive coach for barely 5 years and never even a playcaller is going to take over the offense?

Listen, AVP is far from perfect, he's a work in progress too, but most of the biggest problems with the offense are personnel based. The line is a shifting mess and the QB is best in PA which they can't run consistently, so they are very limited, and NFL defenses feast on limited offenses.

The players need to improve, AVP needs to improve, and Mayo needs to improve a lot, shifting the blame would just tell me he's never going to be a good coach, that's what guys who don't take responsibility and don't put in the work do.
 

sezwho

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You think the guy who can't handle his job now needs to take over the offense? A guy who has been a defensive coach for barely 5 years and never even a playcaller is going to take over the offense?

Listen, AVP is far from perfect, he's a work in progress too, but most of the biggest problems with the offense are personnel based. The line is a shifting mess and the QB is best in PA which they can't run consistently, so they are very limited, and NFL defenses feast on limited offenses.

The players need to improve, AVP needs to improve, and Mayo needs to improve a lot, shifting the blame would just tell me he's never going to be a good coach, that's what guys who don't take responsibility and don't put in the work do.
I didn’t say he should take the keys and keep them, sheesh, but he should at least be considering someone else to hand them to.

We shouldn’t be hanging anyone yet, for all the reasons we both mentioned in our posts, but I need to see at least a pulse out of AVP: yes.

Maybe that all changes when Maye gets on the field, and it’s all just deck chairs at the moment given the oline and qb, I happen to think so.
 

Cellar-Door

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So going to put this here instead of the Maye thread since it's not really about Maye.

A bunch of people noting that the timing of this is bizaare for two reasons.

1. As Devin McCourty and a bunch of others point out.... why are you getting this out on Tuesday so that HOU gets to spend their entire practice week and gameplanning on Maye instead of Brissett or a split? It's a non-trivial competitive advantage you are giving up.

2. Mayo made a big deal about how if he ever made a change he wanted the players to know first... today is an off day, and according to some local writers (Kadlick among them) a lot of the players learned about the switch from social media.

Feels like just another indication of how what was once the best run and tightest team has become a three stooges act.... like someone (Mayo?, Kraft?) thought banking a future favor from Schefter was worth more than doing things the right way.
 

sheamonu

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This (the changing of QB's) is a panicked, rookie coach move. Of course you are not going to make the playoffs with Jacoby Brissett - neither are you going to make them with Drake Maye. So what are you trying to do here? Go from horrible to slightly less horrible? Mediocre to "Mediocrerer"? (New word). You had a plan - have the balls to stick with it. Unless, (and this is a STRONG possibility) this isn't a coaching or front office decision at all - but an ownership dictate. "I'm paying for a top pick and I want to see what my money is going towards - start him". If that's the case - we're creeping towards Jetsdom.
 

rodderick

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Mayo's overwhelming messaging focus on "execution", with him going so far as to say the sequence at the end of the half "wasn't an issue with the play call" is starting to bother me a little. Yeah, I know the execution has been terrible, a lot of those penalties are on guys just being undisciplined, but still, would love to see him not put most of it on the players repeatedly.
 

lexrageorge

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This (the changing of QB's) is a panicked, rookie coach move. Of course you are not going to make the playoffs with Jacoby Brissett - neither are you going to make them with Drake Maye. So what are you trying to do here? Go from horrible to slightly less horrible? Mediocre to "Mediocrerer"? (New word). You had a plan - have the balls to stick with it. Unless, (and this is a STRONG possibility) this isn't a coaching or front office decision at all - but an ownership dictate. "I'm paying for a top pick and I want to see what my money is going towards - start him". If that's the case - we're creeping towards Jetsdom.
If Maye was looking a lot better than Brissett in practice, then Mayo would soon be dealing with a revolt in the locker room. And would get fired as a result.
 

jsinger121

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If Maye was looking a lot better than Brissett in practice, then Mayo would soon be dealing with a revolt in the locker room. And would get fired as a result.
agreed. You can only fool the team for so long. If Maye clearly the better QB in practice then he deserves to play.
 

Justthetippett

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Mayo's overwhelming messaging focus on "execution", with him going so far as to say the sequence at the end of the half "wasn't an issue with the play call" is starting to bother me a little. Yeah, I know the execution has been terrible, a lot of those penalties are on guys just being undisciplined, but still, would love to see him not put most of it on the players repeatedly.
Idk about this. Given that he was a player not very long ago I think he knows what coaches can get away with in terms of criticism. It's actually one of the few things I'd bank on with him. The strategy, game management stuff is much more of a question mark for me.
 

patinorange

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So going to put this here instead of the Maye thread since it's not really about Maye.

A bunch of people noting that the timing of this is bizaare for two reasons.

1. As Devin McCourty and a bunch of others point out.... why are you getting this out on Tuesday so that HOU gets to spend their entire practice week and gameplanning on Maye instead of Brissett or a split? It's a non-trivial competitive advantage you are giving up.

2. Mayo made a big deal about how if he ever made a change he wanted the players to know first... today is an off day, and according to some local writers (Kadlick among them) a lot of the players learned about the switch from social media.

Feels like just another indication of how what was once the best run and tightest team has become a three stooges act.... like someone (Mayo?, Kraft?) thought banking a future favor from Schefter was worth more than doing things the right way.
It’s been a rocky start for the coach, that’s for damn sure. I wish we had a real OC for the kid, AVP is beyond awful. We shall see what Drake is made of. He certainly can’t be worse than Jacoby.
 

Justthetippett

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So going to put this here instead of the Maye thread since it's not really about Maye.

A bunch of people noting that the timing of this is bizaare for two reasons.

1. As Devin McCourty and a bunch of others point out.... why are you getting this out on Tuesday so that HOU gets to spend their entire practice week and gameplanning on Maye instead of Brissett or a split? It's a non-trivial competitive advantage you are giving up.

2. Mayo made a big deal about how if he ever made a change he wanted the players to know first... today is an off day, and according to some local writers (Kadlick among them) a lot of the players learned about the switch from social media.

Feels like just another indication of how what was once the best run and tightest team has become a three stooges act.... like someone (Mayo?, Kraft?) thought banking a future favor from Schefter was worth more than doing things the right way.
I'd be much less worried about the competitive edge stuff than how it goes over with the team, but if reports are to be believed, a big chunk of the team already wanted this in previous weeks. The team may still be a gong show, but I don't know how much we can read into this one decision from the outside. I do hope Brissett was told respectfully (in between ice baths from the beatings he's been taking).
 

Over Guapo Grande

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So going to put this here instead of the Maye thread since it's not really about Maye.

A bunch of people noting that the timing of this is bizaare for two reasons.

1. As Devin McCourty and a bunch of others point out.... why are you getting this out on Tuesday so that HOU gets to spend their entire practice week and gameplanning on Maye instead of Brissett or a split? It's a non-trivial competitive advantage you are giving up.

2. Mayo made a big deal about how if he ever made a change he wanted the players to know first... today is an off day, and according to some local writers (Kadlick among them) a lot of the players learned about the switch from social media.

Feels like just another indication of how what was once the best run and tightest team has become a three stooges act.... like someone (Mayo?, Kraft?) thought banking a future favor from Schefter was worth more than doing things the right way.
What does Houston really gain? "Hey, let's send 12 blitzers instead of 11?"
 

Cellar-Door

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I'd be much less worried about the competitive edge stuff than how it goes over with the team, but if reports are to be believed, a big chunk of the team already wanted this in previous weeks. The team may still be a gong show, but I don't know how much we can read into this one decision from the outside. I do hope Brissett was told respectfully (in between ice baths from the beatings he's been taking).
I worry more about it being a really easy thing to do correctly, and there is no good reason for someone to rush out to let Schefter know, it's not the thing itself (though it's not ideal) as much as it's indicative of a bad process and a bad culture within the organization. And given the last 12 months or so it's a pattern of unprofessionalism and selfishness from ownership down.

What does Houston really gain? "Hey, let's send 12 blitzers instead of 11?"
I mean... one guy is a veteran pocket passer who almost never turns it over, the other is a much more mobile inexperienced guy, I would guess the coverages and rushes are going to be significantly different. With Maye it's about confusing him into throwing picks, keeping him from breaking the pocket, maybe even using a spy. Where Brissett would be about getting quick pressure and taking away quick throws.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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I worry more about it being a really easy thing to do correctly, and there is no good reason for someone to rush out to let Schefter know, it's not the thing itself (though it's not ideal) as much as it's indicative of a bad process and a bad culture within the organization. And given the last 12 months or so it's a pattern of unprofessionalism and selfishness from ownership down.


I mean... one guy is a veteran pocket passer who almost never turns it over, the other is a much more mobile inexperienced guy, I would guess the coverages and rushes are going to be significantly different. With Maye it's about confusing him into throwing picks, keeping him from breaking the pocket, maybe even using a spy. Where Brissett would be about getting quick pressure and taking away quick throws.
So... he may have more time to throw then?
 

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So going to put this here instead of the Maye thread since it's not really about Maye.

A bunch of people noting that the timing of this is bizaare for two reasons.

1. As Devin McCourty and a bunch of others point out.... why are you getting this out on Tuesday so that HOU gets to spend their entire practice week and gameplanning on Maye instead of Brissett or a split? It's a non-trivial competitive advantage you are giving up.

2. Mayo made a big deal about how if he ever made a change he wanted the players to know first... today is an off day, and according to some local writers (Kadlick among them) a lot of the players learned about the switch from social media.

Feels like just another indication of how what was once the best run and tightest team has become a three stooges act.... like someone (Mayo?, Kraft?) thought banking a future favor from Schefter was worth more than doing things the right way.
Agreed 100% on this. It's another indication IMO that Mayo doesn't know what the hell he is doing.
 

cshea

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Are we sure Mayo's behind the leak?

Mayo reportedly did talk to both Jacoby and Drake about the change prior to the news breaking publicly. Obviously not all of the players knew because it was an off day, but he talked to the primaries. Mayo has always said the decision was his and his alone but I can't imagine he decided to make the switch without consulting anyone. I'm guessing between the coaching staff, front office and ownership a lot of people knew. I'm not sure who stands to gain the most from the news getting out but it seems like the Kraft's could be behind it? There is a lot of negative vibes around the team between the fans and the media. Could they have wanted to get it out to try and change the narrative and build some excitement?
 

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Are we sure Mayo's behind the leak?

Mayo reportedly did talk to both Jacoby and Drake about the change prior to the news breaking publicly. Obviously not all of the players knew because it was an off day, but he talked to the primaries. Mayo has always said the decision was his and his alone but I can't imagine he decided to make the switch without consulting anyone. I'm guessing between the coaching staff, front office and ownership a lot of people knew. I'm not sure who stands to gain the most from the news getting out but it seems like the Kraft's could be behind it? There is a lot of negative vibes around the team between the fans and the media. Could they have wanted to get it out to try and change the narrative and build some excitement?
Once you start caring about that stuff, it's time to pack your bags and get out of the building, because you've lost the plot. Fuck building excitement and changing the narrative; win games and it will be exciting enough.
 

cshea

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Once you start caring about that stuff, it's time to pack your bags and get out of the building, because you've lost the plot. Fuck building excitement and changing the narrative; win games and it will be exciting enough.
I don't disagree, but based on the HOF nonsense, Robert obviously deeply cares about public perception of him and team.

I just don't think it's totally fair to pin the news getting out on Mayo. He may have told everyone let me tell the team first but someone above him sent it off to Schefter/Rap. Maybe he did leak it, who knows. Schefter and Rap broke the news almost simultaneously. That screams the Krafts to me.
 

sezwho

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I’m curious about the overlap of people who expressed wanted to see Maye NOW and immediately shifted to killing Mayo for panicking. I happened to be listening to Feglar show at the time of announcement (don’t judge I love Bedard) and he did this exact heel turn. It was inspired.
 

chilidawg

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I’m curious about the overlap of people who expressed wanted to see Maye NOW and immediately shifted to killing Mayo for panicking. I happened to be listening to Feglar show at the time of announcement (don’t judge I love Bedard) and he did this exact heel turn. It was inspired.
The old Pitino negativity rant wasn't far off.
 

NoXInNixon

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This (the changing of QB's) is a panicked, rookie coach move. Of course you are not going to make the playoffs with Jacoby Brissett - neither are you going to make them with Drake Maye. So what are you trying to do here? Go from horrible to slightly less horrible? Mediocre to "Mediocrerer"? (New word). You had a plan - have the balls to stick with it. Unless, (and this is a STRONG possibility) this isn't a coaching or front office decision at all - but an ownership dictate. "I'm paying for a top pick and I want to see what my money is going towards - start him". If that's the case - we're creeping towards Jetsdom.
Going from horrible to slightly less horrible is progress, and for what looks like the worst team in the NFL, any progress is good. If Maye is the QB that we all hope he is, it's better for his long term development that he gets in there and wins a few more games this season than Brissett would have, than if they tanked the rest of the season for a slightly better draft pick.
 

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If naming Maye qb1 after a horrific start to the season is a "panic move" then maybe its time for panic.

And while Maye starting is a big deal of sorts, its not market moving, earth shattering news. In fact its kind of a harmless tidbit to feed to media contacts.
It gives Houston something to prepare for but my guess is that they maybe have seen the Pats play and like everyone else with eyes, recognized that Brissett wasn't long for the role.

Put it this way - do you think their coaching staff could credibly argue that they never expected/prepared for Maye if he was the surprise starter and beats them? Again, anyone who follows the NFL could see it was only matter of time.

In the end, none of this is of much consequence long term.
 

NickEsasky

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There is probably some slight advantage to being able to plan for Maye. But given he has basically zero NFL tape, how much of an advantage could it be? So you saw some snaps against vanilla defenses in the preseason. I can't see that helping much.
 

Mystic Merlin

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There is probably some slight advantage to being able to plan for Maye. But given he has basically zero NFL tape, how much of an advantage could it be? So you saw some snaps against vanilla defenses in the preseason. I can't see that helping much.
Plus, the idea they were keeping the starting QB under wraps until like game day is quite impracticable. They had to inform the players and coaches by today of any change given the sensitivity and importance of the position, and that means dozens of people, plus their agents and family/friends, who would know the change occurred on Wednesday at the latest. This idea they were gonna keep that quiet until Saturday or Sunday is wrong.

Also, it bears noting that the gameplans are typically baked by Tuesday night, and for most teams it isn’t as easy as people think to shitcan/materially change what they’ve worked on Monday and Tuesday. You’re in practice and meetings Wed-Fri. It helps on the margins to know Maye - who is a legitimate running threat - is playing, but the Pats offense still is what it is schematically.
 

lexrageorge

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Yeah, the days of "hiding" the starting QB are long past. Players, agents, assistants, clubhouse and front office people talk, and social media exists. The only way to hide the starter would be to give both QB's equal reps, which would be a disservice to the entire team.


Once you start caring about that stuff, it's time to pack your bags and get out of the building, because you've lost the plot. Fuck building excitement and changing the narrative; win games and it will be exciting enough.
Mayo cannot control everyone, and certainly cannot control what people in the front office are going to leak to the media. He doesn't have Belichick's control of all football operations like Belichick did. At the end of the day, the "leaking" of the starter on a Tuesday is a nothing burger because it literally changes nothing. Don't really care if the backup long snapper gets butt hurt about it.
 

ShaneTrot

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Plus, the idea they were keeping the starting QB under wraps until like game day is quite impracticable. They had to inform the players and coaches by today of any change given the sensitivity and importance of the position, and that means dozens of people, plus their agents and family/friends, who would know the change occurred on Wednesday at the latest. This idea they were gonna keep that quiet until Saturday or Sunday is wrong.

Also, it bears noting that the gameplans are typically baked by Tuesday night, and for most teams it isn’t as easy as people think to shitcan/materially change what they’ve worked on Monday and Tuesday. You’re in practice and meetings Wed-Fri. It helps on the margins to know Maye - who is a legitimate running threat - is playing, but the Pats offense still is what it is schematically.
Maybe I am making this up but aren't both teams required to make the starting QB available to the press on Wednesday or Thursday? I always got a chuckle out of Brady coming in sweats with a hat on answering like three questions with boring answers, and saying, 'Thanks guys' and taking off.
 

rodderick

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I’m curious about the overlap of people who expressed wanted to see Maye NOW and immediately shifted to killing Mayo for panicking. I happened to be listening to Feglar show at the time of announcement (don’t judge I love Bedard) and he did this exact heel turn. It was inspired.
Felger hasn't been beating the drum for Maye to start, though. He's said repeatedly he doesn't believe it will change anything and that the QB isn't one of the team's main issues. He's been a "these kids need to sit and learn" guy for years.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Plus, the idea they were keeping the starting QB under wraps until like game day is quite impracticable.
Right, this isn't the WWF where five minutes before game time Drake Maye would come high stepping out of the tunnel with a 2 x 4 cocked on his shoulder and the camera cuts to a panicking Houston sideline.

There's some serious nit-picking going on in the Mayo era. Maybe he sucks, maybe he just needs some experience under his belt, but things like this QB switch or the cardinal sin of saying Maye was playing better in the preseason are non-issues on a terrible team that nobody outside of New England is paying a lick of attention to.
 

sezwho

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Felger hasn't been beating the drum for Maye to start, though. He's said repeatedly he doesn't believe it will change anything and that the QB isn't one of the team's main issues. He's been a "these kids need to sit and learn" guy for years.
Yeah, that’s fair. Certainly in the context of the other local media he hasn’t been hammering for Maye so much as burying Brissett and Mayo and ‘cheapskate’ Kraft. It was still a great spontaneous heel turn from the endless debate of whether Maye should start to completely crushing them for making the decision.
 
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CoffeeNerdness

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Well they won't have to face the NFL WR1 since Nico Collins just hit IR, so this game just got incrementally easier.
 

SMU_Sox

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This is all I see in this forum since the Seattle game. (in regards to there being no hope) I can't believe I'm reading about a second round rookie being coached poorly because he wants to argue he was actually in bounds on a TD. Losing really does bring out some craziness in posting.
It is poor coaching when it seems like everyone but Polk gets what the rule is. It's not that complicated. The fact that Polk keeps arguing it was a catch is ridiculous. It isn't. It wasn't. It will never be. Your coach is supposed to get you to understand the rules.

I also don't buy the good QB 3-2 argument. We are 1-4. We can play the revisionist game all day long but it's worthless and counterproductive. Hey what if this bounce and that bounce and this bounce and that play went another way? OK but can the other team have their mistakes back too? Game flow changes. You are what your record is. We're what -40 points or something like that on the year? Yeah, that's 1-4. Miami gets a mulligan on their missed opportunities if we do. I don't think I loathe a conversation more than the revisionist what we could be if we had a better X, Y, or Z. Or if we had gotten a different bounce or result from a play. Nothing personal BBJ.
 

SMU_Sox

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What does Houston really gain? "Hey, let's send 12 blitzers instead of 11?"
Agreed. The difference between HOU and us is talent and coaching. Them knowing Maye is the starter is not going to be the material difference between winning and losing. They are going to blow our doors off regardless. Is it perhaps a tactical misstep and Mayo not making the best decision yet again this season? Sure. That it is more a pattern of his questionable decisions is much more of a worry to me vs the actual sin here.
 

SMU_Sox

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The only likely difference you might see is that they play with a hole player who spies Maye. They are going to be in man a ton and probably blitz a good amount for a multitude of reasons: facing a rookie QB, our OL is in shambles and sucks, our receivers can't win consistently vs man. I can buy maybe they play a tiny bit more zone because he can scramble.

What we should hope to see is Maye quickly getting rid of the ball to the right spots when he is blitzed. That's such a tall order for a rookie QB.

I expect this to be a game where he has some great improvisations but his routine passing is brutal. That's ok too. I just hope folks keep calm even if he gets his ass kicked.
 

luckiestman

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Agreed. The difference between HOU and us is talent and coaching. Them knowing Maye is the starter is not going to be the material difference between winning and losing. They are going to blow our doors off regardless. Is it perhaps a tactical misstep and Mayo not making the best decision yet again this season? Sure. That it is more a pattern of his questionable decisions is much more of a worry to me vs the actual sin here.
I’m interested to see how the Pats D holds up against Stroud. The Jets game on road short rest is the only game they really got their ass kicked. Last year I think they might have taken it to him. I really want to see if this kid can take the leap against good defenses.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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It is poor coaching when it seems like everyone but Polk gets what the rule is. It's not that complicated. The fact that Polk keeps arguing it was a catch is ridiculous. It isn't. It wasn't. It will never be. Your coach is supposed to get you to understand the rules.
Sorry SMU but this is silly. It’s ridiculous for a player to lobby for himself that he made a great play? So every time we see a WR make a play on the sidelines, get up and guesture towards the refs that they were in or they made the catch they’re poorly coached? The kid wants to argue he made the play, let him. It should put a chip on his shoulder. Polk arguing doesn’t change the outcome. Implying it’s some sort of miss from the coaches that he “doesn’t know the rule” is really picking nits.
 

SMU_Sox

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Sorry SMU but this is silly. It’s ridiculous for a player to lobby for himself that he made a great play? So every time we see a WR make a play on the sidelines, get up and guesture towards the refs that they were in or they made the catch they’re poorly coached? The kid wants to argue he made the play, let him. It should put a chip on his shoulder. Polk arguing doesn’t change the outcome. Implying it’s some sort of miss from the coaches that he “doesn’t know the rule” is really picking nits.
He can lobby in the heat of the moment but insisting that it was a catch after the game and the day after when it is clearly not is not knowing the rules. Not understanding situational football right? What were the hallmark of good BB teams? They understood the rules thoroughly! They were over-prepared. They knew what they could and could not do. Knowing the details of what a catch is and what you need to do in the NFL vs college is important. It isn't picking nits. Feel free to disagree but this forum uses "silly" and "crazy" too much. I don't think your POV is silly even though I disagree with you.
 

Cellar-Door

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Sorry SMU but this is silly. It’s ridiculous for a player to lobby for himself that he made a great play? So every time we see a WR make a play on the sidelines, get up and guesture towards the refs that they were in or they made the catch they’re poorly coached? The kid wants to argue he made the play, let him. It should put a chip on his shoulder. Polk arguing doesn’t change the outcome. Implying it’s some sort of miss from the coaches that he “doesn’t know the rule” is really picking nits.
Polk continued to not realize why he was called out after the game, showing his toes. And yes... not knowing the rules is terrible coaching. We spent years winning games because our players knew every detail of the rules and it gave an advantage, players from that era talk about it all the time. That the current team doesn't know an essential rule is bad, it's really bad coaching. This isn't some very obscure edge case that only Bill and Ernie knew but brought up it's.... "what is a catch".

C'mon man, I get it, we want Mayo to be a good coach, we want to give him the benefit of the doubt that he will learn..... this is bad coaching.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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There was a full on discussion of the rule in this forum because it changed this year. Plenty of people questioned it. I’m so tired of hearing about the glory days when every player knew all of the rules when Bill was here. It’s a garbage take and has no basis in reality. The team was 4-13 last year. I get that some of you don’t want your step dad to replace your real dad but your real dad sucked last year and its why he’s doing podcasts. A rookie WR who made a hell of a play wants to argue that he made a great play and we want to put it on the coaches? Are you 100% sure no one on the staff has talked to him about it? This is nonsense.