Hold the Mayo? Evaluating Patriots coaching.

[NextBigThing8184]

The Pats didn’t have Drake Maye as their starting QB last offseason. That dynamic alone makes this coming offseason far different.

I don’t understand how you’re so sure of everything in the future. It’s weird.

Teams without good QB sign players all the time. How is knowing you’re going to draft a QB and actually having a QB on the roster any different in terms of strategy?

What’s weird is suggesting Wolf has been anything other than wildly inadequate to this point or any sort of justification for him not spending money to improve the roster last season.

Ah yes but we should expect Wolf to sign a bunch of high priced free agents because Drake Maye has played half a season. Makes total sense. That’s the “Green Bay way” we heard so much about

 

[NextBigThing8184]

We can see how next offseason goes and if it’s as horrible as the past one, I’ll be right here with you. I do expect a spending spree now; they’ve failed to develop WR and Tackle and have the other positions in place.The spree need not be like 2021, but rather at tackle or WR where they have critical needs.

Just like some of the Mayo criticism is early or unfair, so is the Kraft/Wolf criticism that they won’t spend in the future. They had a horrible off season last year. But they spent in 2021 and last season the free agents they went after didn’t come. They deserve major criticism for the results (which were easily foreseeable) but I think you’re a bit early on criticizing the overall process. Even with a perfect offseason (say signing Ridley at their $$) they were going to be very bad this year.

To be completely transparent, I expect a major Tackle or WR to be signed this offseason with Maye here and their overall roster. I expect the contract to be awful value and I expect to fine with that because that’s the price you pay when you are bad and have drafted poorly and need to make someone come to your team. Last offseason they could afford to negotiate with Ridley; they can’t do that this offseason and need to address major holes at two positions.

Other than Higgins, what WR would you consider “major”? Would Mike Williams on a one year 15M deal (or whatever) be “major” and evidence of Wolf being a big spender?

I don’t think Godwin makes it to free agency so if it’s not Higgins, it’s likely going to be dumpster diving for guys on their last legs or the Osborn or Bourne types of the world

 

[8slim]

Teams without good QB sign players all the time. How is knowing you’re going to draft a QB and actually having a QB on the roster any different in terms of strategy?

What’s weird is suggesting Wolf has been anything other than wildly inadequate to this point or any sort of justification for him not spending money to improve the roster last season.

Ah yes but we should expect Wolf to sign a bunch of high priced free agents because Drake Maye has played half a season. Makes total sense. That’s the “Green Bay way” we heard so much about

Your schtick is boring. There’s a monumental difference between having a high draft pick and having an actual, bona fide, living, breathing QB who can make every throw and seems likely to be a long time starter.

If you can’t fathom why that might be more attractive for free agents then I can’t help you.

One can feel that Wolf hasn’t been particularly great at his job to date (that’s where I fall) and also feel that this coming offseason may be much more productive.

But you’ve decided it’s not possible. So there’s really no need to engage with you anymore.

 

[joe dokes]

Other than Higgins, what WR would you consider “major”? Would Mike Williams on a one year 15M deal (or whatever) be “major” and evidence of Wolf being a big spender?

What would YOU consider "major"?

 

[jk333]

Other than Higgins, what WR would you consider “major”? Would Mike Williams on a one year 15M deal (or whatever) be “major” and evidence of Wolf being a big spender?

I don’t think Godwin makes it to free agency so if it’s not Higgins, it’s likely going to be dumpster diving for guys on their last legs or the Osborn or Bourne types of the world

Godwin, Cooper or Higgins, or I’d look at tackles more closely- Bolles and Stanley. An overpriced tackle or WR would help by stabilizing a position. I think their issue is too many holes to fill by only the draft. Their (position) groups are so bad that having flexibility is a negative. Osborn and Bourne don’t realize that they are replacement receivers that Douglas/Polk/Boutte are younger and cheaper versions of. It’s a mess, they shouldn’t have brought Bourne back.

Regarding tackle, if they had a LT and Strange, the line may be functional, it was last year when Brown was healthy.

 

[Justthetippett]

Wolf got his QB. Check. Granted it was not a difficult decision, but he didn't get cute with a trade down, etc. He stuck and picked and it was the right call. It's the most important decision he'll likely make in his time here. His other moves have been mediocre or bad. That's not really all that controversial to say. This is his most important off-season (before the next one, which will also be critical). You either set Maye up to succeed or die trying. This isn't Mac where we have to talk ourselves into his potential and skew the analysis with selcted advanced stats. Maye is a stud. Our eyes and ears do not decieve us. So go get him Higgins, draft an OT or WR in R1. (I'm on the McMillan bandwagon. Him, Higgins, Pop in the slot and go from there. If Deebo comes available at a reasonable price, go for it too.)

 

[NextBigThing8184]

Godwin, Cooper or Higgins, or I’d look at tackles more closely- Bolles and Stanley. An overpriced tackle or WR would help by stabilizing a position. I think their issue is too many holes to fill by only the draft. Their (position) groups are so bad that having flexibility is a negative. Osborn and Bourne don’t realize that they are replacement receivers that Douglas/Polk/Boutte are younger and cheaper versions of. It’s a mess, they shouldn’t have brought Bourne back.

Regarding tackle, if they had a LT and Strange, the line may be functional, it was last year when Brown was healthy.

It would be pretty surprising if Bolles, Stanley or Godwin hit free agency. The Ravens’ cap situation isn’t great but I’d think they’d find a way to franchise Stanley unless they decide to franchise Mekari instead

I would think the Pats would be in on guys like Noteboom, Udoh, Brunskill and the like. I can’t imagine they’re going to be shopping at the top range of tackles based on what we saw last offseason.

 

[lexrageorge]

It would be pretty surprising if Bolles, Stanley or Godwin hit free agency. The Ravens’ cap situation isn’t great but I’d think they’d find a way to franchise Stanley unless they decide to franchise Mekari instead

I would think the Pats would be in on guys like Noteboom, Udoh, Brunskill and the like. I can’t imagine they’re going to be shopping at the top range of tackles based on what we saw last offseason.

Last offseason has zero bearing in what the team will do this offseason.

 

[Salem's Lot]

Last offseason has zero bearing in what the team will do this offseason.

Is ownership actually going to let Wolfe outbid other teams for the top free agents? Or are they going to be in the same ballpark or slightly less than the top offers again (when you account for state tax ) and blame it on the guy’s girlfriend preferring to live in the south?

 

[lexrageorge]

Is ownership actually going to let Wolfe outbid other teams for the top free agents? Or are they going to be in the same ballpark or slightly less than the top offers again (when you account for state tax ) and blame it on the guy’s girlfriend preferring to live in the south?

Nobody knows seems to be the correct answer. Except Kraft may very well lean on Wolfe a bit harder to get a premier player in a position of need. At least seems feasible to me.

What we do know for certain is that while the Krafts will set an overall budget, Wolfe will be on the hook to figure out how to distribute that budget.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

Last offseason has zero bearing in what the team will do this offseason.

Bizarre take.

You’re suggesting GM’s don’t have patterns or philosophies? Suggesting it has “zero bearing” is suggesting Wolf has no core operating strategy?

Given it’s the same exact front office (unless they’re fired which we know Kraft won’t do), I don’t know how we can’t look at last year as a guide for what these guys want to do. Doesn’t mean it will be an exact repeat of course but suggesting that their approach last offseason is totally different than any approach moving forward is outright bizarre.

GM’s don’t typically radically shift strategy year to year.

 

[lexrageorge]

Bizarre take.

You’re suggesting GM’s don’t have patterns or philosophies? Suggesting it has “zero bearing” is suggesting Wolf has no core operating strategy?

Given it’s the same exact front office (unless they’re fired which we know Kraft won’t do), I don’t know how we can’t look at last year as a guide for what these guys want to do. Doesn’t mean it will be an exact repeat of course but suggesting that their approach last offseason is totally different than any approach moving forward is outright bizarre.

GM’s don’t typically radically shift strategy year to year.

GM's often do switch strategies based on the available players and the team's circumstances and needs. Except I'm not going to waste my time looking it up for you. And doing different things in a new offseason than the past offseason doesn't mean Wolf has no operating strategy. It's not a fucking logic exam.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

GM's often do switch strategies based on the available players and the team's circumstances and needs. Except I'm not going to waste my time looking it up for you. And doing different things in a new offseason than the past offseason doesn't mean Wolf has no operating strategy. It's not a fucking logic exam.

Except the circumstances are very similar

Huge amounts of cash
Poor talent on OL
Poor talent at WR
Bad overall roster

We saw how he handled this last year. Dumpster diving. Expecting a total shift in operating philosophy is fanciful to be kind.

He did nothing other than staying put at 3rd overall and taking Maye which has improved the roster meaningfully and people are expecting multiple massive improvements in external free agency/trades

He comes from the “Green Bay way” which is consistent from year to year as any philosophy is. But sure, let’s expect him to land Tee Higgins, Ronnie Stanley. Makes sense. A guy who wants to draft and develop is going to lay out huge AAV for an injury prone inconsistent tackle (or worse, a 32 year old Bolles). Seems highly unlikely.

 

[lexrageorge]

He comes from the “Green Bay way” which is consistent from year to year as any philosophy is. But sure, let’s expect him to land Tee Higgins, Ronnie Stanley. Makes sense. A guy who wants to draft and develop is going to lay out huge AAV for an injury prone inconsistent tackle (or worse, a 32 year old Bolles). Seems highly unlikely.

Well, I don't expect Wolf to willingly spend a lot of money on an injury-prone JAG tackle either.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Is ownership actually going to let Wolfe outbid other teams for the top free agents? Or are they going to be in the same ballpark or slightly less than the top offers again (when you account for state tax ) and blame it on the guy’s girlfriend preferring to live in the south?

Nobody knows, but there are indicators that the Patriots can spend. Reports were that they offered the most for Tyron Smith but he wanted a chance to contend so chose the Jets. Also reporting they offered Aiyuk the best contract but he chose to return to the 49ers.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Nobody knows, but there are indicators that the Patriots can spend. Reports were that they offered the most for Tyron Smith but he wanted a chance to contend so chose the Jets. Also reporting they offered Aiyuk the best contract but he chose to return to the 49ers.

They offered a lot to Calvin Ridley, too.

Would have been a big celebration.

 

[tims4wins]

Not challenging the 3rd and 10 “completion” is inexcusable.

 

[tims4wins]

And compounds it by calling timeout when the Colts had almost no time left on the play clock. Dead lord.

 

[JimD]

The media is going to take the kid gloves off after this debacle. Kraft is going to have to issue the dreaded vote of confidence to try and keep the fans and media at bay.

 

[Cellar-Door]

And compounds it by calling timeout when the Colts had almost no time left on the play clock. Dead lord.

That was a mistake by the announce team, it was an IND timeout.

The end of game was fine, it's a calculated risk, the kind BB made all the time.

There are plenty of things Mayo (and Covington) did terribly throughout that deserves more criticism than the ending. Make a stop either on the TD or the 2pt. Getting a couple extra seconds (IND probably runs more clock if we take timeouts) and no timeouts wouldn't make a major difference.

 

[Justthetippett]

Not challenging the 3rd and 10 “completion” is inexcusable.

This one was bad. And that's on him. Either because of a bad video assist system or some other reason. Just can't happen.

 

[Ed Hillel]

The clock management combined with playing passive offense at the end of halves did them in, horrible penalties aside.

Mayo is the worst coach this city has seen in a very long time.

 

[tims4wins]

That was a mistake by the announce team, it was an IND timeout.

The end of game was fine, it's a calculated risk, the kind BB made all the time.

There are plenty of things Mayo (and Covington) did terribly throughout that deserves more criticism than the ending. Make a stop either on the TD or the 2pt. Getting a couple extra seconds (IND probably runs more clock if we take timeouts) and no timeouts wouldn't make a major difference.

Not according to the game log. The Pats called timeout first. Then the Colts.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Lmao
View: https://twitter.com/bychrismason/status/1863331263844638906?s=42

 

[Euclis20]

I have no fucking patience for ultra-conservative play calling when you don't have an elite defense. For the first time in awhile I feel more confidence in letting the offense rather than the defense try to win the game, and clearly mayo doesn't agree.

 

[rodderick]

Today was an unmitigated disaster. I just don't see what the silver lining is, or what's there to hold onto with Mayo.

 

[tims4wins]

Lmao
View: https://twitter.com/bychrismason/status/1863331263844638906?s=42

Yes, we, as a player in street clothes.

 

[The Social Chair]

Lmao
View: https://twitter.com/bychrismason/status/1863331263844638906?s=42

 

[rodderick]

He has already reached the Matt Patricia stage of taking credit for the Butler play to divert from criticism, lmao. At least Patricia was actually the DC for it, not an injured player. What a clusterfuck.

 

[IdiotKicker]

Lmao
View: https://twitter.com/bychrismason/status/1863331263844638906?s=42

Way to rest on your laurels from a decade ago. Honestly, I’m tired of Mayo acting like he’s done anything when he hasn’t done shit.

 

[Cellar-Door]

The timeouts at the end is going to get way too much attention... he made a call, it didn't work out, but at least he made it, the abject failures elsewhere and his consistent shittiness should get way more attention than that one strategy choice.

 

[Ed Hillel]

The timeouts at the end is going to get way too much attention... he made a call, it didn't work out, but at least he made it, the abject failures elsewhere and his consistent shittiness should get way more attention than that one strategy choice.

Not sure what this means, though. He had to make a choice one way or the other, it was just he picked the objectively very bad one. You use the timeouts at least until they hit 3rd down.

 

[rodderick]

Not sure what this means, though. He had to make a choice one way or the other, it was just he picked the objectively very bad one. You use the timeouts at least until they hit 3rd down.

Yup. "Mayo wanted the end the game with a stop". Cool, but by taking timeouts he also ends the game with a stop, only he has a little more time if he doesn't get the stop. Honestly, NOTHING would be lost by taking the timeouts, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills at this defense of the decision.

Elementary, no downside decision, just like challenging the catch earlier in the drive. He froze because he's clueless. Nothing strategic about it, he just sucks.

 

[tims4wins]

Not sure what this means, though. He had to make a choice one way or the other, it was just he picked the objectively very bad one. You use the timeouts at least until they hit 3rd down.

Only timeout he actually did use was to bail the Colts out when the clock was already stopped and they were scrambling to get set.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

He has already reached the Matt Patricia stage of taking credit for the Butler play to divert from criticism, lmao. At least Patricia was actually the DC for it, not an injured player. What a clusterfuck.

And if what he means to say is that the organization has a history of making that kind of decision, then it’s still dumb because (1) the situations are not really analogous and (2) he’s been distancing himself from the BB era at virtually every other turn, so it comes off as opportunistic to use the BB era as a shield now.

 

[AlNipper49]

The media is going to take the kid gloves off after this debacle. Kraft is going to have to issue the dreaded vote of confidence to try and keep the fans and media at bay.

I’ve been resisting being critical. I think there is tremendous value in developing at the coaching level. The issue is Mayo isn’t really developing.

Weird feeling for me. Coaches that I think need to be fired I usually do a pretty good job of finding a reason to hate. I think Mayo seems like a really, really nice dude.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Yup. "Mayo wanted the end the game with a stop". Cool, but by taking timeouts he also ends the game with a stop, only he has a little more time if he doesn't get the stop. Honestly, NOTHING would be lost by taking the timeouts, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills at this defense of the decision.

Elementary, no downside decision, just like challenging the catch earlier in the drive. He froze because he's clueless. Nothing strategic about it, he just sucks.

The one downside is Colts can get the ball back down 7 since they had 3 timeouts themselves, but the math there has to work out in favor of taking at least 2. Colts have good odds to score from that part of the field, that time is important for Maye.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Not sure what this means, though. He had to make a choice one way or the other, it was just he picked the objectively very bad one. You use the timeouts at least until they hit 3rd down.

There is an argument that you put additional pressure on the offense to execute.... but yeah, it probably is the right call to take the timeouts, I was off by a down on when stuff happened, so he didn't take away the run like I thought he did.

 

[rodderick]

The one downside is Colts can get the ball back down 7 since they had 3 timeouts themselves, but the math there has to work out in favor of taking at least 2.

I'd rather risk the Colts getting the ball back with like 20 seconds down 7 than making sure I'll have 12 to get a FG.

 

[tims4wins]

There is an argument that you put additional pressure on the offense to execute.... but yeah, it probably is the right call to take the timeouts, I was off by a down on when stuff happened, so he didn't take away the run like I thought he did.

You continue to ignore the timeout that he did take on D.

 

[Ed Hillel]

I'd rather risk the Colts getting the ball back with like 20 seconds down 7 than making sure I'll have 12 to get a FG.

It could have been closer to 45 seconds for the Colts, but I 100% agree.

 

[Cellar-Door]

You continue to ignore the timeout that he did take on D.

Did he? I thought they corrected that to IND? If he took the timeout there... brutally bad, because a delay is exactly the kind of mistake you're trying to pressure them into.

 

[luckiestman]

Mayo is a shitty in game coach but the Pats seem ready to play every week given the roster. I cannot imagine a firing.

 

[tims4wins]

Did he? I thought they corrected that to IND? If he took the timeout there... brutally bad, because a delay is exactly the kind of mistake you're trying to pressure them into.

Yes, he 100% did.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Did he? I thought they corrected that to IND? If he took the timeout there... brutally bad, because a delay is exactly the kind of mistake you're trying to pressure them into.

NE took one, then Colts.

But at that point it probably didn’t matter. There was probably not enough time to use 3 timeouts Anyway.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Yes, he 100% did.

Oh yeah, that's terrible.

I've changed my mind, it's not really defensible if you aren't going to actually pressure them. I stand corrected, he mismanaged it much worse than the mild mismanaging I thought. His overall incompetence is of more concern to me, but we can chalk this up in the list.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Oh yeah, that's terrible.

I've changed my mind, it's not really defensible if you aren't going to actually pressure them.

Colts had 3 timeouts, so I don’t think there was ever going to be pressure. They had plenty of time to get 7-8 plays off if needed.

 

[richgedman'sghost]

The clock management combined with playing passive offense at the end of halves did them in, horrible penalties aside.

Mayo is the worst coach this city has seen in a very long time.

Joe Kerrigan and Dave Lewis would say hello..

 

[Ferm Sheller]

Joe Kerrigan and Dave Lewis would say hello..

That was a long time ago. We're getting old.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Mayo is a shitty in game coach but the Pats seem ready to play every week given the roster. I cannot imagine a firing.

Drake Maye is the reason why they are in these games. I’m not sure how much credit you can give to Mayo. And yes, he’s a terrible in-game coach and doesn’t seem to be learning from his mistakes.

There’s just too much at stake with what looks like an NFL lottery ticket with Drake at QB. They can’t afford to dick around, and I think there’s real damage that can be done to young players by losing week after week, particularly if the coaching staff is doing more to put you in position to lose than to win.