Hold the Mayo? Evaluating Patriots coaching.

[Helmet Head]

My hope is that the team continues to progress (hopefully on a linear basis but life rarely works that way) over that period.

That's it right there, that's all I want. Unfortunately, it appears to be going in the opposite direction, especially on defense the last couple weeks. No illusions here that the roster is any good but they have been too late to adjust on multiple occations. I mostly agree though, he isn't going anywhere this offseason.

Weren't fans and media saying Belichick was no good on his way to 5-11 in 2000? I definitely recall him ripping players publicly for sucking.

100% but Bill had a much longer tract record in the NFL than Mayo currently has. For one, he actually called defensive plays and built one of the greatest defensive gameplans in NFL history to beat the K-Gun offense in the Super Bowl. A gameplan that is currently in the HOF. He was also a head coach prior and while it ended badly, he did win a playoff game there, against the Pats.

 

[BigJimEd]

how you make someone a NFL head coach who has never been a head coach at any level is just crazy to me.

Really? That would be the majority of first time NFL head coaches.

 

[rodderick]

Really? That would be the majority of first time NFL head coaches.

Yeah, Mayo's overall lack of experience in coaching as well as the doubts surrounding his responsibilities as "co-DC" and the lack of experience calling plays are the question to me, but not having been an HC before is a non-issue.

 

[The Social Chair]

He should of never been given this opportunity is the facts here, how you make someone a NFL head coach who has never been a head coach at any level is just crazy to me.

This literally happens all the time unless they come from college. The two coaches last year in the Super Bowl had no head coaching experience before they did. Same with Belichick.

The bigger issue is that Mayo didn't have a ton of experience as an assistant, and they kept the staff of a losing organization. If it didn't work the last few years with Belichick, why would his staff do better?

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

This literally happens all the time unless they come from college. The two coaches last year in the Super Bowl had no head coaching experience before they did. Same with Belichick.

The bigger issue is that Mayo didn't have a ton of experience as an assistant, and they kept the staff of a losing organization. If it didn't work the last few years with Belichick, why would his staff do better?

Mayo literally wasn't even calling the defensive plays. The only reason he's head coach is because he's Kraft's buddy and a Leader of Men type.

It's not working. And Kraft has entrusted the rebuild of an entire organization to a guy with minimal qualifications.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

100% but Bill had a much longer tract record in the NFL than Mayo currently has. For one, he actually called defensive plays and built one of the greatest defensive gameplans in NFL history to beat the K-Gun offense in the Super Bowl. A gameplan that is currently in the HOF. He was also a head coach prior and while it ended badly, he did win a playoff game there, against the Pats.

Yeah the “BB was bad at first too” stuff is just terribly lazy and dishonest. By the time he was in New England, and fans were indeed calling for him to be fired, he had 20+ years of coaching experience, significant experience designing gameplans (including the HOF one) and calling plays. He had experience building a roster and implementing “his” system. He was on 3 Super Bowl coaching staffs, directly contributing to 2 wins (with New York) and quickly turned around the Browns defense. Even though he didn’t put together an incredible body of work with Cleveland, the first year results were promising and he got them moving in the right direction up until Modell decided to move the team and everything collapsed.

The question really is, why did he struggle early on in New England and I would posit a lot of it was he didn’t have “his” guys, “his” culture. It took him a year+ to churn the roster replacing the Chad Eaton, Chris Slade and Terry Glenn’s of the world with his Anthony Pleasant, Mike Vrabel, David Patten types. Adding Seymour and Light helped but I think the attitude and culture guys like Cox and Phifer made a big difference too. He also brought in Romeo Crennel to help him install his gameplans as the DC

I don’t think any of that is really applicable to the situation Mayo is in right now. Because he doesn’t have “his” particular culture he’s trying to instill and isn’t in charge of personnel anyway. He has no real experience designing gameplans or calling plays. He hired his buddy Covington, also wildly under qualified, to be his DC. I’m struggling to see what the path for improving the coaching is, especially on D.

 

[joe dokes]

I get criticizing him now. And if people think his 12 games make him fire-worthy, go for it. But "I don't see how he can ever improve" is ridiculous.
Most everyone had this team pegged at 3-5 wins. That's where they are going to end up. If Mayo, too, is learning on the job, so be it.

 

[4 6 3 DP]

I watch this guy every week and I think he's just another version of Nathaniel Hackett - utterly and completely confused by basic game situations week after week after week, and just flailing to look like he knows what he's doing. It's been said in this thread that he just needs an analytics guy by his side, but I don't know how you overcome a lack of fundamental feel for game flow and how that affects decision making. I mean, this is a guy who didn't check to see if the wind had shifted in an overtime. Something I do 18 times each round I play golf. I think saying he coaches scared is simplistic and unfair. I think he coaches without any sort of compass. You can coach conservatively and effectively. You can coach aggressively and effectively. Sometimes you go into a game, and adjust on the fly. Sometimes the other team comes in with a plan you didn't expect and you have to adjust.

After 53, Sean McVay came out and talked about how they were completely unprepared for the BB gameplan in that Super Bowl and how he didn't react properly. Which suggests 1) He understood what had happened and 2) Took responsibility for the situation. Every week we see Mayo, who claims to be an open book with the media, show little to no responsibility for what's going on and just blaming being a new coach.

The comments today on the Greg Hill show - https://www.boston.com/sports/morning-sports-update/2024/11/25/jerod-mayo-patriots-coaching-scared-critics/

Asked again about the “scared football” narrative, a statement was put to Mayo: He would coach differently if he had “pieces to sub in for guys that were making mistakes” in Sunday’s loss. He was asked if that was a fair statement.

“That’s a fair assessment,” Mayo responded.

Firable as far as I'm concerned. No responsibility to coach up who's there. Pure trainwreck hire. This generation's Rod Rust.

 

[rodderick]

I get criticizing him now. And if people think his 12 games make him fire-worthy, go for it. But "I don't see how he can ever improve" is ridiculous.
Most everyone had this team pegged at 3-5 wins. That's where they are going to end up. If Mayo, too, is learning on the job, so be it.

I think the win total is far less damning than the horrific defensive performance and the weekly media snafus coupled with what looks to be a very lax locker room.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

I think the win total is far less damning than the horrific defensive performance and the weekly media snafus coupled with what looks to be a very lax locker room.

Bingo. My, and others’, concern is more about the process, not the game outcomes per se.

 

[joe dokes]

I think the win total is far less damning than the horrific defensive performance and the weekly media snafus coupled with what looks to be a very lax locker room.

For me anyway, i think performance is mostly personnel (or lack of) related. But I haven't broken it down like some. I dont really give a shit about media snafus; or more specifically, I dont think they translate to on-field stuff. But again, that could just be me.
But I have to admit I don't know anything about the locker room laxity. What's that all about?

 

[8slim]

I referenced the new Syracuse HC upthread. When he interviewed for the job he delivered a manifesto to our AD that covered his plans on HS recruiting, transfers, NIL, staff hiring, schematic strategy, game day management and team culture building. And this dude was the DB coach for Georgia who had never been a coordinator before, let alone a HC.

Was there any reporting about Mayo doing anything similar? Did he present Kraft an extensive plan about things?

Clearly, not all guys who have never been a HC before are the same. Some NFL coordinators who get a head gig are incredibly prepared, and some are decidedly not. Being prepared doesn’t guarantee success, but I’m assuming if one is not there aren’t many cases where it worked out well.

Curious if Mayo had to present a detailed plan to win the job or if it was RKK promoting him on vibes.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I think the win total is far less damning than the horrific defensive performance and the weekly media snafus coupled with what looks to be a very lax locker room.

yep, the wins are irrelevant, even with Maye being better than expected you're probably looking at 6-7 wins as the most any coach is getting out of this roster. The concerns are all about process... how do you prepare the team, how to do make in-game decisions, how do you adapt in game, how do you adapt between weeks, how do you build culture and accountability, do you repeat mistakes. Do you have a philsophy, are you consistent in your practices, does it feel like there is a plan.

I think that's one reason that despite it being bad, people are a lot higher (both here and Nationally) about AVP than Mayo. The offense has no talent, but we see improvements, we see process, we see a plan... execution may not always be there, but the process looks pretty sound. On defense and on game decisions from the HC..... I don't see the plan.

 

[jsinger121]

I referenced the new Syracuse HC upthread. When he interviewed for the job he delivered a manifesto to our AD that covered his plans on HS recruiting, transfers, NIL, staff hiring, schematic strategy, game day management and team culture building. And this dude was the DB coach for Georgia who had never been a coordinator before, let alone a HC.

Was there any reporting about Mayo doing anything similar? Did he present Kraft an extensive plan about things?

Clearly, not all guys who have never been a HC before are the same. Some NFL coordinators who get a head gig are incredibly prepared, and some are decidedly not. Being prepared doesn’t guarantee success, but I’m assuming if one is not there aren’t many cases where it worked out well.

Curious if Mayo had to present a detailed plan to win the job or if it was RKK promoting him on vibes.

It was vibes. Nothing more. Mayo is a disaster hire and Kraft literally is setting this franchise back even further with this joke of a coach.

 

[ShaneTrot]

If I was Mayo, I would take over the defense. This is his side of the ball and besides the Bears and Bengals games that side of the ball has sucked and regressed. I do think the losses of Bentley and Peppers have taken a lot of the smarts and toughness out of this unit. Peppers always seemed to be in the right place and jacking people up. I feel bad for Covington but he has been pantsed the last two weeks by Shanahan-offenses.

 

[8slim]

If I was Mayo, I would take over the defense. This is his side of the ball and besides the Bears and Bengals games that side of the ball has sucked and regressed. I do think the losses of Bentley and Peppers have taken a lot of the smarts and toughness out of this unit. Peppers always seemed to be in the right place and jacking people up. I feel bad for Covington but he has been pantsed the last two weeks by Shanahan-offenses.

What’s wild is that we have more D coaches who have college lacrosse experience (2) than had prior defensive coordinator experience (1).

I don’t know if it’s personnel or scheme, or both, but the D hasn’t been good. And it was Mayo’s choice to go with a complete newbie as DC. Big whiff on his part IMHO.

 

[Marciano490]

I referenced the new Syracuse HC upthread. When he interviewed for the job he delivered a manifesto to our AD that covered his plans on HS recruiting, transfers, NIL, staff hiring, schematic strategy, game day management and team culture building. And this dude was the DB coach for Georgia who had never been a coordinator before, let alone a HC.

Was there any reporting about Mayo doing anything similar? Did he present Kraft an extensive plan about things?

Clearly, not all guys who have never been a HC before are the same. Some NFL coordinators who get a head gig are incredibly prepared, and some are decidedly not. Being prepared doesn’t guarantee success, but I’m assuming if one is not there aren’t many cases where it worked out well.

Curious if Mayo had to present a detailed plan to win the job or if it was RKK promoting him on vibes.

Quite possibly, but we didn’t get that story, we got the one about Kraft, genius motivator of men and knower of their hearts, watching him across a hotel lobby and just knowing. Which is a great story for falling in love, but maybe not the best way to pick a coach.

 

[TomRicardo]

Mayo may not grow into a real NFL coach, but right now he needs a "wtf coach" who he trusts and is on the phones and can tell him in-game he is being stupid, preferably someone from outside kraftville.
Slightly different, but BB had EA.

Brian Flores would have been a good guy to bring in as DC/Assistant Head Coach.

Mayo has an incredibly inexperienced senior staff. Both the DC and Special Teams Coordinator are starting this year at that level. They also have a first time Offensive Line Coach. The inexperience of the staff has really not been great to prop up a first time coach

 

[Eastchop]

No. Plus Mayo isn’t going anywhere. He’s just not.

It’d be ridiculous to make him the HC knowing his first year is going to be a massive, huge, titanic learning curve and then dump him after that first year of learning.

Forget ego and all that stuff, I can’t believe that the Krafts would be that stupid.

If Wolf upgrades the roster and we still stink next year then we can get rid of Mayo.

They had a hard enough time getting FAs to take their money, reportedly more than other teams offered, without the actual head coach on record looking clueless/making terrible in game decisions/costing them wins and generally talking like a moron and throwing his players under the bus to the media.

Wolfs drafting has been unimpressive to say the least.

I think Mayo negatively impacts the teams ability to upgrade the roster. Which they cannot afford in their rookie QB window if they truly want to try to turn this around. I guess let’s put FA recruitment on Mayes plate too because there’s zero other reason to come to NE and multiple reasons not to

 

[8slim]

They had a hard enough time getting FAs to take their money, reportedly more than other teams offered, without the actual head coach on record looking clueless/making terrible in game decisions/costing them wins and generally talking like a moron and throwing his players under the bus to the media.

Wolfs drafting has been unimpressive to say the least.

I think Mayo negatively impacts the teams ability to upgrade the roster. Which they cannot afford in their rookie QB window if they truly want to try to turn this around. I guess let’s put FA recruitment on Mayes plate too because there’s zero other reason to come to NE.

This seems premature, to put it mildly. I don’t think we have any idea what Mayo’s reputation is among non-Patriots players.

And it seems that his reputation with Patriots players is good. If there’s been disgruntlement, or mutiny afoot, I suspect one of the intrepid shit stirrers in the Boston media would have run with that.

 

[Kramerica Industries]

Why do people keep saying they won't fire Mayo? I don't get it. If the Krafts are smart and competent, which I think most of us agree they are, I don't get why it's off the table. It's beyond clear Mayo is in way over his head. Im not sure I have seen one aspect of the job he seems to have a good handle on. Too many game plans are somewhat befuddling. The in game decisions and clock management is overly conservative and inconsistent from week to week.

One and done Head Coaches aren't common but its not unprecedented. Urban Meyer, Steve Wilks, Chip Kelly, Jim Tomsula. Do you think the 49ers regret going one and done at HC back to back years and then grabbing Kyle Shanahan?

I understand its a bad look to do it. I understand its probably even not fair to Mayo. But this feels to me we are about to see a half measure in the offseason. New coordinator or two. Probably both. It won't work because its painfully obvious Mayo isnt the guy and we will be looking at Maye with a 3rd OC in 3 years.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Why do people keep saying they won't fire Mayo? I don't get it. If the Krafts are smart and competent, which I think most of us agree they are, I don't get why it's off the table. It's beyond clear Mayo is in way over his head. Im not sure I have seen one aspect of the job he seems to have a good handle on. Too many game plans are somewhat befuddling. The in game decisions and clock management is overly conservative and inconsistent from week to week.

One and done Head Coaches aren't common but its not unprecedented. Urban Meyer, Steve Wilks, Chip Kelly, Jim Tomsula. Do you think the 49ers regret going one and done at HC back to back years and then grabbing Kyle Shanahan?

I understand its a bad look to do it. I understand its probably even not fair to Mayo. But this feels to me we are about to see a half measure in the offseason. New coordinator or two. Probably both. It won't work because its painfully obvious Mayo isnt the guy and we will be looking at Maye with a 3rd OC in 3 years.

Do we? I mean, they did not handle last season the way smart/competent owners do, they handled it the way 80 something egotists do. And they have acted that way for some time. If Bob dropped dead tomorrow... maybe. But Kraft has spent a LOT of time over the last few years trying to burnish himself, his role, and his accumen in the public. He repeatedly went out on a limb about Mayo, and how his hiring, and long term future reflected Bob Kraft's genius. Nothing about Kraft strikes me as someone who is pulling the trigger quick on Mayo.

MAYBE if they lose every game from here out by 30+, even then I think he fires one or both coordinators. This isn't a random coach hire, and he doesn't have the offield issues of Meyer.
WIlks was an interim coach who was not retained. Yes the 49ers had back to back 1 and done coaches, but worth noting that was caused by the long-time GM forcing out the coach, internal promotion, fired, new hire, and then the Owner canning the GM and starting over. Possible I guess Kraft could do that, but it was an unusual situation and most point to it as evidence of a toxic organization.

Edit- forgot above... this isn't just a coach Kraft interviewed and hired. This is a guy he has a long personal relationship with that he identified (maybe before he'd even been an assistant coach for a game if you believe Kraft) as his choice to succeed Bill. Also... Kraft LOVES to brag about how few coaches he's had, how they were all great (because he thinks people will say "man that Hall of Fame Owner Bob Kraft really knows his football... maybe HE is the real reason they won those rings not Brady/Belichick).... football owners are all enormous egotists, firing a coach should be considered in terms of how it impacts them... Mayo is Kraft's guy, he staked his rep on him, guys like Kraft don't admit they were wrong about things like that until they have run out of other people to blame. Where if he was some guy that the GM hired.... go ahead and fire him, blame the GM, then make the NEXT coach your guy.

 

[8slim]

Why do people keep saying they won't fire Mayo? I don't get it. If the Krafts are smart and competent, which I think most of us agree they are, I don't get why it's off the table. It's beyond clear Mayo is in way over his head. Im not sure I have seen one aspect of the job he seems to have a good handle on. Too many game plans are somewhat befuddling. The in game decisions and clock management is overly conservative and inconsistent from week to week.

One and done Head Coaches aren't common but its not unprecedented. Urban Meyer, Steve Wilks, Chip Kelly, Jim Tomsula. Do you think the 49ers regret going one and done at HC back to back years and then grabbing Kyle Shanahan?

I understand its a bad look to do it. I understand its probably even not fair to Mayo. But this feels to me we are about to see a half measure in the offseason. New coordinator or two. Probably both. It won't work because its painfully obvious Mayo isnt the guy and we will be looking at Maye with a 3rd OC in 3 years.

1) It may be "beyond clear" to you, but I suspect it's not clear to the Krafts. The team was likely to lose most of their games and has lost most of their games. The players seem to like and respect Mayo. Everything else about those aspects of his job you don't think he has a good handle on is your opinion, not necessarily theirs.

2) Kraft hired a guy who had nary a second of head coaching experience. It's likely that Kraft expected there to be a steep learning curve for Mayo this season. There has been. If you know that's coming then you are willing to endure a season (or two) of Mayo overcoming it in order to see him be successful on the other side.

Firing him after one season makes no sense if #1 and #2 are true. Personally, I think they are, thus we're not going to see Mayo be fired.

 

[Kramerica Industries]

Well, obviously its my opinion and they might disagree but they also could agree...kinda how this works. The Kraft's might feel like I do but still stick with Mayo because of other factors like contract, PR or doing what they think is doing right for a man they like.

1) I'll agree to disagree that Mayo has the respect from his players. Im not sold on that. The players respected Bill last year it seemed like. They played hard for him. It wasn't enough for him to keep his job.

2) Kraft likely expected a learning curve but to this point im not seeing much learning, are you? Understanding there are 6 games left that can change but Im not optimistic. I acknowledge that Kraft might see growth from an insider's perspective but I also wonder if Kraft underestimated the difficulty of the task he has tasked Mayo to do and can see that now.

All my point is, while I don't think its likely Mayo will be gone it shouldn't be dismissed as if its crazy thought. Like it or not his resume had him under qualified for this job and watching week to week has done nothing to ease that opinion. (my opinion might not be Krafts)

 

[joe dokes]

) I'll agree to disagree that Mayo has the respect from his players. Im not sold on that.

Why not?

The players respected Bill last year it seemed like

What made it seem like it?

 

[NextBigThing8184]

What exactly has Mayo done for people to support him?

It seems like his supporters’ only argument is “well the roster sucks so you can’t expect anything”

Did he build a good staff? I’d argue that other than Van Pelt, the staff is bad. Springer and Covington seem like total duds. Peters, Hightower and the rest who knows

Has he, or his staff, developed young players? Well, it seems like regression has been more common than progression. The rookie class sucks other than Maye. I don’t see huge leaps from 2nd or 3rd year guys.

Has he, or his staff, shown a particular knack for strategy, game planning, clock management or playcalling? What examples are there of this?

Really struggling to see the positives in Mayo other than nebulous stuff like “he’s a good leader of men” or “he’s a players coach”. As a manager of a staff and team, and as a tactician, where’s the evidence that he has any ability to be good at his job?

 

[NextBigThing8184]

1) It may be "beyond clear" to you, but I suspect it's not clear to the Krafts. The team was likely to lose most of their games and has lost most of their games. The players seem to like and respect Mayo. Everything else about those aspects of his job you don't think he has a good handle on is your opinion, not necessarily theirs.

2) Kraft hired a guy who had nary a second of head coaching experience. It's likely that Kraft expected there to be a steep learning curve for Mayo this season. There has been. If you know that's coming then you are willing to endure a season (or two) of Mayo overcoming it in order to see him be successful on the other side.

Firing him after one season makes no sense if #1 and #2 are true. Personally, I think they are, thus we're not going to see Mayo be fired.

Mayo isn’t going to get fired because he sung sing a long songs and held a little meeting in an airport or whatever magical nonsense Kraft believes.

The hiring of Mayo was not on any sort of merit and thus it will take many years of ineptitude before Kraft fires him.

If your reasoning for hiring a guy is “he’s a brilliant offensive strategist!” And then he puts up the worst most comically incompetent offense in the league, it’s easy to get away from him (Hackett is a similar case recently)

When you hire someone on vibes, and the look in someone’s eye when they’re standing in a river, you keep supporting them because getting away from magical thinking or “gut feelings” takes a lot longer than getting away from an obvious misjudgment of a guy’s relevant qualifications

 

[naclone]

I think Kraft hired Mayo for years 3 and beyond. im not saying it was the right decision but the mayo hire was clearly a long term project. if you want to win now you donr hire mayo. if you think mayo can be a great head coach.... some day.... you hire him and give him the time and space to figure it out. we were always going. to be terrible this season. and next season too. a houston style turnaround was not the plan. mayo being head coach for the next 20 years is the plan. again im not saying it will work or was a good decision. im just saying if people are already this impatient its gonna be a rough few years for you because mayo is going nowhere.

 

[NomarsFool]

We all know that BB was a hard ass curmudgeon and that playing for him wasn’t fun. Some players liked it, overall, because his approach to coaching and preparation was able to squeeze just a bit more out of the talent on the team to push the team from good to great, leading to lots of winning and winning is fun.

Unfortunately, as the talent on the roster waned, being pushed to improve your team from a 5 win team to a 7 win team is no fun at all, and certainly not to go from a 2 win team to a 4 win team.

Based on some of his comments, I believe Mayo wanted to basically lighten up on the players a bit and make the atmosphere a little more fun. That may still have been the right call after BB, but I don’t think it takes a big stretch of the imagination to think that the sloppy play, penalties, apparent lack of preparation, is at least partly attributable to the team not being worked as hard.

Assuming Mayo is no fool, my guess is that next season he adjusts and brings back more BB elements to the team’s preparation and rides the players harder. The only question mark is whether they will respond. We’ve seen others try and emulate BB with other teams and it didn’t work. Players don’t give 110% effort unless they believe that what the coach is doing is going to result in more success.

 

[jsinger121]

I think Kraft hired Mayo for years 3 and beyond. im not saying it was the right decision but the mayo hire was clearly a long term project. if you want to win now you donr hire mayo. if you think mayo can be a great head coach.... some day.... you hire him and give him the time and space to figure it out. we were always going. to be terrible this season. and next season too. a houston style turnaround was not the plan. mayo being head coach for the next 20 years is the plan. again im not saying it will work or was a good decision. im just saying if people are already this impatient its gonna be a rough few years for you because mayo is going nowhere.

If he doesn't show anything in year two and more of the same, then he should be gone. Frankly he should be a one and done coach and for Kraft to admit his stupid decision to hire him in the first place.

 

[naclone]

If he doesn't show anything in year two and more of the same, then he should be gone. Frankly he should be a one and done coach and for Kraft to admit his stupid decision to hire him in the first place.

Its the "show anything" part im talking about. we have no idea what metrics kraft is measuring mayo on this season.

 

[richgedman'sghost]

This seems premature, to put it mildly. I don’t think we have any idea what Mayo’s reputation is among non-Patriots players.

And

1) It may be "beyond clear" to you, but I suspect it's not clear to the Krafts. The team was likely to lose most of their games and has lost most of their games. The players seem to like and respect Mayo. Everything else about those aspects of his job you don't think he has a good handle on is your opinion, not necessarily theirs.

2) Kraft hired a guy who had nary a second of head coaching experience. It's likely that Kraft expected there to be a steep learning curve for Mayo this season. There has been. If you know that's coming then you are willing to endure a season (or two) of Mayo overcoming it in order to see him be successful on the other side.

Firing him after one season makes no sense if #1 and #2 are true. Personally, I think they are, thus we're not going to see Mayo be fired.

 

[richgedman'sghost]

Do we? I mean, they did not handle last season the way smart/competent owners do, they handled it the way 80 something egotists do. And they have acted that way for some time. If Bob dropped dead tomorrow... maybe. But Kraft has spent a LOT of time over the last few years trying to burnish himself, his role, and his accumen in the public. He repeatedly went out on a limb about Mayo, and how his hiring, and long term future reflected Bob Kraft's genius. Nothing about Kraft strikes me as someone who is pulling the trigger quick on Mayo.

MAYBE if they lose every game from here out by 30+, even then I think he fires one or both coordinators. This isn't a random coach hire, and he doesn't have the offield issues of Meyer.
WIlks was an interim coach who was not retained. Yes the 49ers had back to back 1 and done coaches, but worth noting that was caused by the long-time GM forcing out the coach, internal promotion, fired, new hire, and then the Owner canning the GM and starting over. Possible I guess Kraft could do that, but it was an unusual situation and most point to it as evidence of a toxic organization.

Edit- forgot above... this isn't just a coach Kraft interviewed and hired. This is a guy he has a long personal relationship with that he identified (maybe before he'd even been an assistant coach for a game if you believe Kraft) as his choice to succeed Bill. Also... Kraft LOVES to brag about how few coaches he's had, how they were all great (because he thinks people will say "man that Hall of Fame Owner Bob Kraft really knows his football... maybe HE is the real reason they won those rings not Brady/Belichick).... football owners are all enormous egotists, firing a coach should be considered in terms of how it impacts them... Mayo is Kraft's guy, he staked his rep on him, guys like Kraft don't admit they were wrong about things like that until they have run out of other people to blame. Where if he was some guy that the GM hired.... go ahead and fire him, blame the GM, then make the NEXT coach your guy.

You confused Wilkes and Tomsula which is easy to do since at different points in time coached with the 49ers. Steve Wilkes was not an interim hire. Wilkes was hired to coach in Arizona. He went 3 and 13 with Josh Rosen as a rookie quarterback but got whacked so the Cardinals could team Kyler Murray with Kliff Kingsbury. Out of all the one and done coaches Wilkes firing was probably the least justified.
Tomsula was the 49ers interim head coach who got promoted to permanent position. Almost everyone agrees his firing was justified as Tomsula was completely over his head.
Chip Kelly was also a special case as he had coached the Eagles previously.
Just wanted to get record straight. Now back to Mayo bashing...
LOL

 

[rodderick]

I just want to know what the upside is. Generally with inexperienced HCs you can point to their scheming/play calling prowess on one side of the ball, or you can get a glimpse of the team playing hard and disciplined even if the results aren't there yet. Mayo seems lost. He was never a play caller in the first place, "his" side of the ball has fallen off a cliff, in game decision making has been questionable at best and the team looks and sounds more and more undisciplined with every passing week. If his upside is eventually becoming a Mike Tomlin/Harbaugh type "CEO" HC, the early returns are pretty disheartening on that front.

I wholeheartedly agree locker room management, media relations and overall game day preparedness are all things he can improve on with experience, but those were supposed to be the strengths he'd have out of the gate, no? If Mayo needs to develop the aspects of the job that most people thought were his best qualities, isn't he a complete unknown at this point?

 

[Cellar-Door]

You confused Wilkes and Tomsula which is easy to do since at different points in time coached with the 49ers. Steve Wilkes was not an interim hire. Wilkes was hired to coach in Arizona. He went 3 and 13 with Josh Rosen as a rookie quarterback but got whacked so the Cardinals could team Kyler Murray with Kliff Kingsbury. Out of all the one and done coaches Wilkes firing was probably the least justified.
Tomsula was the 49ers interim head coach who got promoted to permanent position. Almost everyone agrees his firing was justified as Tomsula was completely over his head.
Chip Kelly was also a special case as he had coached the Eagles previously.
Just wanted to get record straight. Now back to Mayo bashing...
LOL

Actually I forgot Wilks was in ARI at all and was thinking of his time in CAR

 

[jsinger121]

I just want to know what the upside is. Generally with inexperienced HCs you can point to their scheming/play calling prowess on one side of the ball, or you can get a glimpse of the team playing hard and disciplined even if the results aren't there yet. Mayo seems lost. He was never a play caller in the first place, "his" side of the ball has fallen off a cliff, in game decision making has been questionable at best and the team looks and sounds more and more undisciplined with every passing week. If his upside is eventually becoming a Mike Tomlin/Harbaugh type "CEO" HC, the early returns are pretty disheartening on that front.

I wholeheartedly agree locker room management, media relations and overall game day preparedness are all things he can improve on with experience, but those were supposed to be the strengths he'd have out of the gate, no? If Mayo needs to develop the aspects of the job that most people thought were his best qualities, isn't he a complete unknown at this point?

And Tomlin and Harbaugh both came into much better situations as well. The Steelers were established with good players going from Cowher to Tomlin while Harbaugh came into the 49ers and Chargers with good pieces in place. This was the wrong situation for someone like Mayo is come into and it’s probably going to fail miserably for him.

 

[Reggie's Racquet]

I don't think he will get fired this season. I think if they lose a few games at the beginning of next season that may happen.
My concern is how this affects Maye's development. Don't screw that up, please.

 

[jsinger121]

I don't think he will get fired this season. I think if they lose a few games at the beginning of next season that may happen.
My concern is how this affects Maye's development. Don't screw that up, please.

Maye’s development to me is more important than developing Jerod Mayo as a head coach.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

It feels like regardless of how the rest of the season goes, some folks are pretty convinced that Mayo cannot get the team back to contention.

I am wondering if there is anything that might change opinions. Would quantifiable improved play be enough? Probably not. A few more wins? Doesn't feel like it.

For those Never-Mayo'ers, is there anything that can redeem him?

Full disclosure, I don't love the results to date but am still open to the idea of Mayo developing into a good coach. I am not saying that it can or will happen. In my mind its still possible. I have been around all sorts of situations where people who look lost figure things out. It sucks when you are the one who gave up too soon. And this isn't even a full season and the roster isn't even his.

 

[luckiestman]

It feels like regardless of how the rest of the season goes, some folks are pretty convinced that Mayo cannot get the team back to contention.

I am wondering if there is anything that might change opinions. Would quantifiable improved play be enough? Probably not. A few more wins? Doesn't feel like it.

For those Never-Mayo'ers, is there anything that can redeem him?

Full disclosure, I don't love the results to date but am still open to the idea of Mayo developing into a good coach. I am not saying that it can or will happen. In my mind its still possible. I have been around all sorts of situations where people who look lost figure things out. It sucks when you are the one who gave up too soon. And this isn't even a full season and the roster isn't even his.

The upside has to be a Sirriani type. Get an awesome D coordinator to totally run the defense, OC has full control of the offense, GM follows consensus and keeps picking BPA and doesn’t get cute, Mayo stands on the sideline looking around like he’s Private Pyle after the dorm room soap beating in Full Metal Jacket.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

It feels like regardless of how the rest of the season goes, some folks are pretty convinced that Mayo cannot get the team back to contention.

I am wondering if there is anything that might change opinions. Would quantifiable improved play be enough? Probably not. A few more wins? Doesn't feel like it.

For those Never-Mayo'ers, is there anything that can redeem him?

Full disclosure, I don't love the results to date but am still open to the idea of Mayo developing into a good coach. I am not saying that it can or will happen. In my mind its still possible. I have been around all sorts of situations where people who look lost figure things out. It sucks when you are the one who gave up too soon. And this isn't even a full season and the roster isn't even his.

Considering he doesn’t have personnel control beyond probably suggesting what guys he’d like to keep on cut down day, the roster will never really be “his”

 

[Trapaholic]

This team needs more NFL-caliber players at basically every position group. This upcoming offseason should see a huge roster turnover. I have been indifferent on Mayo, but it has been frustrating to watch the defense get worse and the silly mistakes continue this far into the season.

Maybe a top-tier NFL coach could squeeze 2 or 3 more wins out of this group, and we finish 6-11 instead of 4-13 this season. Until the Patriots have actual NFL starters at most positions, I am not going to completely turn on Mayo.

2024 was always going to be about developing Drake Maye and seeing if there are any salvageable players on the current roster. It sucks right now because we are in the middle of it, but this year is going to plan.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

It would have been great if Mayo could have had a person to lead the team for the first 6 weeks -- letting him learn how things are done on the professional level- before handing him the reins. A Jacoby Brsisett of coaches, as it were.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

And Tomlin and Harbaugh both came into much better situations as well. The Steelers were established with good players going from Cowher to Tomlin while Harbaugh came into the 49ers and Chargers with good pieces in place. This was the wrong situation for someone like Mayo is come into and it’s probably going to fail miserably for him.

Not sure which Harbaugh is being referenced but John’s first year in 2008, he had a loaded coaching staff on D. Tomlin had a HOF caliber DC as well (Lebeau)

“CEO” types as head coaches need tremendous coordinators. Not first year guys like Covington who seemingly got the job because he’s friends with Mayo and they wanted to keep it internal.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

This team needs more NFL-caliber players at basically every position group. This upcoming offseason should see a huge roster turnover. I have been indifferent on Mayo, but it has been frustrating to watch the defense get worse and the silly mistakes continue this far into the season.

Maybe a top-tier NFL coach could squeeze 2 or 3 more wins out of this group, and we finish 6-11 instead of 4-13 this season. Until the Patriots have actual NFL starters at most positions, I am not going to completely turn on Mayo.

2024 was always going to be about developing Drake Maye and seeing if there are any salvageable players on the current roster. It sucks right now because we are in the middle of it, but this year is going to plan.

The team needed more talent last offseason and Wolf landed Maye (great!) and…..Joey Slye? Gibson? Hooper?

At the rate of one good player per offseason, it’s going to be quite a long rebuild

 

[tims4wins]

Not sure which Harbaugh is being referenced but John’s first year in 2008, he had a loaded coaching staff on D. Tomlin had a HOF caliber DC as well (Lebeau)

“CEO” types as head coaches need tremendous coordinators. Not first year guys like Covington who seemingly got the job because he’s friends with Mayo and they wanted to keep it internal.

This is exactly right.

 

[Dotrat]

I was optimistic when the Krafts hired him. I liked him as a player and as a guest on Curran's podcast--though these are admittedly not substantive criteria for a HC hire. I remained optimistic because he seemed to imply that he wanted to balance the best of BB--analytical skill and smart and flexible game planning--with a more low-key but still demanding style. And while their record is about what most of us expected, the road has been much rockier. A lack of discipline that's resulting in a lot of stupid penalties (which was a problem in 2022 and 2023, though not to the same extent we've seen this year), little or no improvement in second and third year players, a baffling lack of preparedness or clear game plan beyond a chicken shit conservatism in play-calling on offense and imbecility on defense--such as the decision to routinely blitz Stafford. Coupled with a penchant for tossing players under the bus, Mayo seems totally overwhelmed by the job. Barring a turnaround over the next several weeks, the team needs a lot of help on the sidelines, as well as in player personnel matters. I'll leave it to those of you who know more than I do as to who the GM, HC, and/or DC should be. Vrabel, Flores, and Ben Johnson are obvious potential HC candidates. I'm sure there are others.

 

[Jinhocho]

It feels like regardless of how the rest of the season goes, some folks are pretty convinced that Mayo cannot get the team back to contention.

I am wondering if there is anything that might change opinions. Would quantifiable improved play be enough? Probably not. A few more wins? Doesn't feel like it.

For those Never-Mayo'ers, is there anything that can redeem him?

Full disclosure, I don't love the results to date but am still open to the idea of Mayo developing into a good coach. I am not saying that it can or will happen. In my mind its still possible. I have been around all sorts of situations where people who look lost figure things out. It sucks when you are the one who gave up too soon. And this isn't even a full season and the roster isn't even his.

I would feel better about his chances if:

1) The media gaffes were less - he was supposed to be so good at this stuff.
2) He actually seemed to make proper in game decisions and adjustments
3) The defense had not fallen off as it did. He was the co D coordinator or whatever that way. Scheme has regressed, players have regressed, adjustments have disappeared, and no one really seems to have gotten better on that unit.

What exactly does he bring?

 

[Helmet Head]

It feels like regardless of how the rest of the season goes, some folks are pretty convinced that Mayo cannot get the team back to contention.

I am wondering if there is anything that might change opinions. Would quantifiable improved play be enough? Probably not. A few more wins? Doesn't feel like it.

For those Never-Mayo'ers, is there anything that can redeem him?

Full disclosure, I don't love the results to date but am still open to the idea of Mayo developing into a good coach. I am not saying that it can or will happen. In my mind its still possible. I have been around all sorts of situations where people who look lost figure things out. It sucks when you are the one who gave up too soon. And this isn't even a full season and the roster isn't even his.

Its all about the defense to me as that is his background. If they make markable improvements from here on out and become a tougher defense to play against week in and week out, it will give some hope that he might have something / the message is getting through and it's worth a second year. The last 2 weeks they have shown almost 0 resistance and that just can't happen. Its a sign that they have kind of quit, which is usually the death nell for a head coach. The in game decision making and offense was always going to be a struggle and work in progress this year. I can live with that.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

I would feel better about his chances if:

1) The media gaffes were less - he was supposed to be so good at this stuff.
2) He actually seemed to make proper in game decisions and adjustments
3) The defense had not fallen off as it did. He was the co D coordinator or whatever that way. Scheme has regressed, players have regressed, adjustments have disappeared, and no one really seems to have gotten better on that unit.

What exactly does he bring?

He’s good at complaining to the refs constantly when they’re down 21-0. Nothing like a 3-whatever coach losing by 3 scores telling the ref how bad they are at their job.