Hold the Mayo? Evaluating Patriots coaching.

[NobodyInteresting]

Not to mention, every time he's on the field defenses know there's a very high probability he'll get the ball on a designed play. So yeah, gadget player and nothing more.

Only if their coaching staff is more switched on than ours presumably. Otherwise, they'd just be "woah, who was that little guy who just ran halfway up the field for a TD?! Where'd he come from?"

I don't think this is on AVP really, but I do think him not being aware of the possibility reflects more poorly on the coaches who were here at the time. BB was famous for detailed prep. This is anything but taking care of the details. You should always know what your options are.

I'm not nearly as down on the coaching staff as many people here are. But I find stuff like this more disquieting than some of you appear to.

 

[jk333]

I think it’s crazy the amount of attention this gets. This isn’t Travis Hunter, Marcus Jones had 137 total receiving yards in 4 college seasons.

Do people think he is as dynamic as Devin Hester? An all time great returner who became a mediocre (credit to him, it’s hard) receiver. And even if so (again, you’re comparing to an all time great) do you really want to focus on developing a secondary receiving option while also developing a rookie QB with terrible or young (or both) receivers?

 

[Cellar-Door]

I think it’s crazy the amount of attention this gets. This isn’t Travis Hunter, Marcus Jones had 137 total receiving yards in 4 college seasons.

Do people think he is as dynamic as Devin Hester? An all time great returner who became a mediocre (credit to him, it’s hard) receiver. And even if so (again, you’re comparing to an all time great) do you really want to focus on developing a secondary receiving option while also developing a rookie QB with terrible or young (or both) receivers?

yeah it's fairly silly, we're talking about a guy whose ideal usage is 1-2 snaps per game some weeks and zero others.

 

[Reverend]

I think it’s crazy the amount of attention this gets. This isn’t Travis Hunter, Marcus Jones had 137 total receiving yards in 4 college seasons.

Do people think he is as dynamic as Devin Hester? An all time great returner who became a mediocre (credit to him, it’s hard) receiver. And even if so (again, you’re comparing to an all time great) do you really want to focus on developing a secondary receiving option while also developing a rookie QB with terrible or young (or both) receivers?

“If the guys on defense could catch, they’d be on offense.”

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

It kinda feels like we've hashed this one pretty thoroughly out over the last page or so.

Some of us shrug at this story and say "must be a slow news week." Others think this is a bigger deal.

Mileage, variance, and all that.




I support your right to be outraged and insist that AVP should be roundly condemned for what he did and didn't do on this front

Settle down, Beavis. No one is condemning anyone. Or I'm not, anyways. But it is a piece of a larger fabric suggesting that unlike previous staffs--who were flawed in their own way--the current coaching staff leaves something to be desired in their attention to detail.

 

[Reverend]

No one is condemning anyone.

Half the reason I read this forum is to see @Smiling Joe Hesketh condemn people.

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

Half the reason I read this forum is to see @Smiling Joe Hesketh condemn people.

Fair.

 

[Zincman]

I suppose its unimportant that BB knew the middle name of the gunner's mother who played for the Montreal Alouettes

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

I suppose its unimportant that BB knew the middle name of the gunner's mother who played for the Montreal Alouettes

That was only because she played on special teams.

But admittedly less important that having Malcolm ready to go, knowing how to drive Harbaugh into an emotional meltdown, and managing a clock at the end of the half.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I suppose its unimportant that BB knew the middle name of the gunner's mother who played for the Montreal Alouettes

But did he?

 

[E5 Yaz]

Half the reason I read this forum is to see @Smiling Joe Hesketh condemn people.

I'll take the over

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

Settle down, Beavis.

Ah, I do appreciate an unnecessary insult over the first cup of coffee

No one is condemning anyone. Or I'm not, anyways.

I support your right to do a bad job of convincing other people on the internet of something they don't agree with-- or whatever it is you think you've been doing-- and then flail around at that

I'll be ignoring you for a while, so post whatever you want in response to this

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Half the reason I read this forum is to see @Smiling Joe Hesketh condemn people.

You're just gonna get more smite!

 

[Auger34]

What cracks me up is that coaches lovvvvveee to tell everyone who will listen about how hard they work. Thousands of hours of film work. Showing up to the facility every day at 5am and staying until 10pm. All that workaholic, rise-and-grind bullshit.

And yet, apparently Van Pelt never watched a minute of film from the 2022 season.

100%.

I don’t really care that he didn’t know. It’s not a huge deal.

But all we hear about coaches is how they sleep like 5 hours a day and watch every snap imaginable of every year….and the offensive coordinator is admitting he didn’t even watch every offensive snap of the team he was taking a job with

 

[lexrageorge]

100%.

I don’t really care that he didn’t know. It’s not a huge deal.

But all we hear about coaches is how they sleep like 5 hours a day and watch every snap imaginable of every year….and the offensive coordinator is admitting he didn’t even watch every offensive snap of the team he was taking a job with

A lot of what we hear is bullshit. There are stretches during regular season, playoffs, and other key offseason points where those anecdotes are true. But most of the rest it’s probably coaches bloviating.

To be fair, going back 2 seasons when the team had a different offense is unlikely to be a top priority. Focusing on the handful of offensive snaps for a key D/ST player returning from a bad injury is going to be even less a priority.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

A lot of what we hear is bullshit. There are stretches during regular season, playoffs, and other key offseason points where those anecdotes are true. But most of the rest it’s probably coaches bloviating.

To be fair, going back 2 seasons when the team had a different offense is unlikely to be a top priority. Focusing on the handful of offensive snaps for a key D/ST player returning from a bad injury is going to be even less a priority.

And it’s also fair to note that much of the talk of the crazy hours/working conditions comes from reporters, who, as we know, tend to overstate matters or ascribe more far reaching significance to anecdotes than may be warranted.

 

[Helmet Head]

Every week I want Mayo gone before the start of next season more and more. He puts his foot on his mouth constantly and has shown zero that he is an NFL caliber coach . He got hired cause he played footsy with the owner. After this game today he said he can’t control the players after they cross the white lines. That’s all well and fine but maybe prepare them better. Go away please. Link to comment below

https://x.com/savagesports_/status/1860828514766799204?s=46&t=Czjt40Px7cadfiCYc3CDtQ

 

[Cellar-Door]

Felt about today the same way I have about the season... AVP is acceptable, Mayo and Covington are showing me almost nothing good.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Felt about today the same way I have about the season... AVP is acceptable, Mayo and Covington are showing me almost nothing good.

I honestly cannot think of a single thing about Mayo’s tenure thus far that makes me think he will make the drastic improvements necessary to become a decent, much less great, NFL head coach. Every indicator of process that we can see (strategy, discipline, game management, individual player usage/development) suggests he’s hopelessly in over his head, and, what’s worse, is nothing he says publicly or does game to game makes me think he is capable or willing to recognize his own mistakes. Anyone looking at the roster talent and preaching patience are, IMO, missing or underplaying the importance of these issues in projecting Mayo’s viability long-term. What head coach has looked this incapable early on from a process perspective, ie, outcomes aside, and come out the other end a good head coach? Even when the team sucks you see at least SOME signs that the head guy knows how to select and manage a staff, deal with discipline issues, and position the team for success in terms of in-game management.

I wish I felt differently because I think RKK is giving him at least two years (and I wouldn’t be remotely surprised if he got three for all the reasons we’ve discussed at length).

 

[Auger34]

And it’s also fair to note that much of the talk of the crazy hours/working conditions comes from reporters, who, as we know, tend to overstate matters or ascribe more far reaching significance to anecdotes than may be warranted.

this is completely wrong.

the coaches are the ones that put that out there. Full stop. The coaches tell the media about how hard they work and the media reports it.

the coaches are the ones, especially after they take a new job, that talk about how they watched all of the teams snaps to see what worled

Why in the world would the media make up that coaches are working hard?

It may be complete bullshit but it’s not the media that’s making it up. Come on

 

[Arroyoyo]

Just throwing this out there…

Is there any chance Kyle Shanahan is available in the offseason?

 

[jsinger121]

Just throwing this out there…

Is there any chance Kyle Shanahan is available in the offseason?

Would be stunned. He has had so many injuries to deal with. Its not his fault.

 

[jk333]

Just throwing this out there…

Is there any chance Kyle Shanahan is available in the offseason?

No?
But if he is, just pay Shanahan whatever it takes to get him signed. I’m all for giving Mayo next season, but I’d drive him to the airport if Shanahan became available.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Just throwing this out there…

Is there any chance Kyle Shanahan is available in the offseason?

No, unless, of course, he commits a crime or something.

 

[Arroyoyo]

He’s been catching heat a bit this season for some (possibly) bad extensions (Aiyuk, McCaffrey) and for regression on defense this year due to some questionable staff changes. I know in some circles 49ers fans are starting to circle the wagon a bit on Shanahan. I’ve seen the sentiment below shared by Niners fans:

https://www.si.com/nfl/49ers/news/will-the-49ers-fire-kyle-shanahan-if-they-miss-the-playoffs-01j8msjx2crv

I don’t think he gets fired this offseason, but weirder things have happened in the NFL and this year has been a trainwreck for that team. I also know Niners fans still feel like he blew both Super Bowls against the Chiefs. I feel like he’s this generation’s Andy Reid on the Eagles; great coach, just can’t get over the hump, impatient fans/ownership may lead to something stupid.

 

[ifmanis5]

Got a feeling this is going to be quoted a lot this week.
For context, here was the question:
"Jerod, you said it starts with you. But when do the players have to start looking at themselves? I mean, you can only do so much. When is it on the players?"

View: https://twitter.com/SavageSports_/status/1860828514766799204

Jerod Mayo on the Patriots mistakes/performance: “Look, once those guys cross the white lines, there’s nothing I can do for them”

 

[NextBigThing8184]

He’s been catching heat a bit this season for some (possibly) bad extensions (Aiyuk, McCaffrey) and for regression on defense this year due to some questionable staff changes. I know in some circles 49ers fans are starting to circle the wagon a bit on Shanahan. I’ve seen the sentiment below shared by Niners fans:

https://www.si.com/nfl/49ers/news/will-the-49ers-fire-kyle-shanahan-if-they-miss-the-playoffs-01j8msjx2crv

I don’t think he gets fired this offseason, but weirder things have happened in the NFL and this year has been a trainwreck for that team. I also know Niners fans still feel like he blew both Super Bowls against the Chiefs. I feel like he’s this generation’s Andy Reid on the Eagles; great coach, just can’t get over the hump, impatient fans/ownership may lead to something stupid.

He blew the Super Bowl against the Pats too with his idiotic playcalling in SB 51

Great schemer. Not sold on him as a head coach. I think he’s a great example of a top tier coordinator who will need to be carried by his players’ talent to win a Super Bowl and is more likely to be the reason his team loses a big game than the reason he wins one.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Forgive me if I am a bit skeptical of internet takes claiming a guy who took a team to the SB twice in the past five years and lost the the Mahomes Chiefs isn't a good head coach. He certainly isn't flawless but if I suspect if he were on the open market he would garner significant interest from a lot of teams that are closer than NE.

I also suspect he won't be on the market - the 49ers have been decimated by injuries and ownership knows it.

 

[8slim]

It’s wild that both my lifelong favorite pro team and my Alma Mater (Syracus) both have first time head coaches this season.

Honestly, the Syracuse guy (Fran Brown) is a farrrrrr better HC than Mayo. At least relative to their respective levels and job descriptions. Brown’s made many rookie mistakes, but it’s clear to see how he’s learning, and the guy is first rate as a leader.

Mayo… the players seem to like him, and I certainly have no clue what’s going on at practices and behind the scenes. But I agree with others that it’s hard to see what he does well. He’ll get next year because the learning curve is crazy steep and Kraft had to know that. Beyond that, who knows.

 

[patinorange]

Forgive me if I am a bit skeptical of internet takes claiming a guy who took a team to the SB twice in the past five years and lost the the Mahomes Chiefs isn't a good head coach. He certainly isn't flawless but if I suspect if he were on the open market he would garner significant interest from a lot of teams that are closer than NE.

I also suspect he won't be on the market - the 49ers have been decimated by injuries and ownership knows it.

He's one of the best in the business. Getting to the Super Bowl is pretty damn good coaching. Especially with the QB's he has had. I can't believe they would even think about letting him go.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Got a feeling this is going to be quoted a lot this week.
For context, here was the question:
"Jerod, you said it starts with you. But when do the players have to start looking at themselves? I mean, you can only do so much. When is it on the players?"

View: https://twitter.com/SavageSports_/status/1860828514766799204

Jerod Mayo on the Patriots mistakes/performance: “Look, once those guys cross the white lines, there’s nothing I can do for them”

Hey dipsit? Your job is to prepare them before they step over the white lines.

Were 2/3 of the way through the season, and you can't point to a single thing he does even slightly above average. Get him gone.

 

[Justthetippett]

Got a feeling this is going to be quoted a lot this week.
For context, here was the question:
"Jerod, you said it starts with you. But when do the players have to start looking at themselves? I mean, you can only do so much. When is it on the players?"

View: https://twitter.com/SavageSports_/status/1860828514766799204

Jerod Mayo on the Patriots mistakes/performance: “Look, once those guys cross the white lines, there’s nothing I can do for them”

This is a dumb thing to say (could have just said "we all need to do better") but because he played I'm not sure the players will kill him for it. It can be about accountability rather than blame. Mayo held himself accountable as a player and expects the same from these guys. At least that's the optimistic view.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

Amusing that Mayo, the in touch with young players, players coach, frequently throws his players under the bus.

BB the mean old out of touch grump always said things like “we all need to do better, coach better, execute better…”

People wanted something very different than Bill. Guess we’re getting it for better or worse

 

[Eastchop]

I don’t see how you give Mayo another year based on what we’ve seen. Maye has the tools. Have to try to build on that somewhat urgently if you want to turn things around. I hear the RKK ego argument for giving Mayo more time but I doubt he and Jonathan have enjoyed watching their team become a joke. While not linear the trend line of team performance around Maye in all phases is down. Mayo isn’t the guy. IMO neither is Wolf. Clean house before you ruin your one asset with bad coaching and a zero talent roster.

 

[rodderick]

Got a feeling this is going to be quoted a lot this week.
For context, here was the question:
"Jerod, you said it starts with you. But when do the players have to start looking at themselves? I mean, you can only do so much. When is it on the players?"

View: https://twitter.com/SavageSports_/status/1860828514766799204

Jerod Mayo on the Patriots mistakes/performance: “Look, once those guys cross the white lines, there’s nothing I can do for them”

I've seen Brady and Belichick both echo this sentiment in very similar wording, as in, the week is about the coaching and gameday is about the players. But man, you absolutely do not say that after getting trounced during a 3-9 season. I could see a player giving that answer to cover for his coaches, but the HC can't say that, even if it's true. Especially in response to a question that's clearly aimed at specifically blaming your roster. Dude isn't ready for this.

 

[DJnVa]

Do we really want Maye to have a new OC next year? Really?

 

[rodderick]

Do we really want Maye to have a new OC next year? Really?

I'm not even joking here: if that's the main concern, I'd rather have Van Pelt as HC.

 

[Curt S Loew]

I'm not even joking here: if that's the main concern, I'd rather have Van Pelt as HC.

I actually like that idea. Do it now and see how it goes the rest of the season. I mean, not having Mayo around won't hurt anything.

 

[astrozombie]

I'm not even joking here: if that's the main concern, I'd rather have Van Pelt as HC.

I'm torn - I was (sort of still am) a Mayo defender, but every week he is making that more difficult. I have a feeling HC AVP would be like Kitchens/McDaniels/Hackett/a million other OCs with a good QB rapport that cannot take the next step. I still want AVP as the OC since he is doing well with Maye, but changing HCs at this point - even if it's deserved and even if it is to AVP - seems so risky because a new HC is likely not keeping AVP. Glad it is not my decision to make.

 

[JimD]

Do we really want Maye to have a new OC next year? Really?

If Maye is going to be ruined by a coordinator switch, then he clearly isn't destined to be a top-tier NFL QB.

 

[8slim]

Do we really want Maye to have a new OC next year? Really?

No. Plus Mayo isn’t going anywhere. He’s just not.

It’d be ridiculous to make him the HC knowing his first year is going to be a massive, huge, titanic learning curve and then dump him after that first year of learning.

Forget ego and all that stuff, I can’t believe that the Krafts would be that stupid.

If Wolf upgrades the roster and we still stink next year then we can get rid of Mayo.

 

[dirtynine]

Mayo’s getting two years unless he does something egregious. He’s been a successful person, so I think he can improve… what I’m wondering is if he even likes the job or wants to be HC now that he has it. Just from public perception he doesn’t strike me as a guy who has a passion for it.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Stefanski isn't getting fired, but for the brief period it looked like he would I thought that was ideal... he's a good HC, he probably would have kept AVP..... bring in a DC (Schwartz?) He knows Wolf so they have some agreement on player types.

 

[rsmith7]

Mayo may not grow into a real NFL coach, but right now he needs a "wtf coach" who he trusts and is on the phones and can tell him in-game he is being stupid, preferably someone from outside kraftville.
Slightly different, but BB had EA.

 

[joe dokes]

I've seen Brady and Belichick both echo this sentiment in very similar wording, as in, the week is about the coaching and gameday is about the players. But man, you absolutely do not say that after getting trounced during a 3-9 season. I could see a player giving that answer to cover for his coaches, but the HC can't say that, even if it's true. Especially in response to a question that's clearly aimed at specifically blaming your roster. Dude isn't ready for this.

Weren't fans and media saying Belichick was no good on his way to 5-11 in 2000? I definitely recall him ripping players publicly for sucking.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

My current Mayo mark to market is that the team often looks sloppy and undisciplined relative to what we saw in years prior when the Pats were on top. I have also seen some improvements/adjustments that are encouraging and I don't feel like the team is quitting on him like we see in other situations.

That said, I have no idea if he can grow into the role or not. I do agree with the view that our takes are irrelevant because the Krafts are likely to give him another season. My hope is that the team continues to progress (hopefully on a linear basis but life rarely works that way) over that period.

That said it feels like most of the fans have seen enough to know he isn't the guy so I don't discount external pressure being a factor in terms of how much more runway he actually has left.

 

[gmogmo]

Mayo’s getting two years unless he does something egregious. He’s been a successful person, so I think he can improve… what I’m wondering is if he even likes the job or wants to be HC now that he has it. Just from public perception he doesn’t strike me as a guy who has a passion for it.

My god, this entire season and every press conference is absolutely egregious.

 

[gmogmo]

No. Plus Mayo isn’t going anywhere. He’s just not.

It’d be ridiculous to make him the HC knowing his first year is going to be a massive, huge, titanic learning curve and then dump him after that first year of learning.

Forget ego and all that stuff, I can’t believe that the Krafts would be that stupid.

If Wolf upgrades the roster and we still stink next year then we can get rid of Mayo.

The ridiculous thing was hiring him to be a HC in the first place

 

[8slim]

The ridiculous thing was hiring him to be a HC in the first place

Maybe. But that’s what happened.

 

[Bigdogx]

Mayo’s getting two years unless he does something egregious. He’s been a successful person, so I think he can improve… what I’m wondering is if he even likes the job or wants to be HC now that he has it. Just from public perception he doesn’t strike me as a guy who has a passion for it.

Classic look of a guy in way over his head if you ask me! If any of you have ever held a job where you know you just didnt belong, and the job was over your skill set, those jobs become miserable and a grind every single day!

The shame here is people are right to say he deserves at least 2 years but they are wrong if they think that will someone make him into a head coach. He should of never been given this opportunity is the facts here, how you make someone a NFL head coach who has never been a head coach at any level is just crazy to me.