This seems like a fair assessment. The defense was schematic and misguided by design. The go for it or don't calls in the flow of the game depend more on feel and ad hoc decision making that presumably will develop along with experience. Even if they hire a stats guy to stand beside Mayo it's not like that takes care by case decisions completely out of it. I also don't begrudge them a bit of conservativism to keep games close and not fall on their faces until both Maye and the coaches have a few more miles together.
Hold the Mayo? Evaluating Patriots coaching.
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Well, the famous one is the whole 4th and 2 thing. Bill was 100% right to do what he did, but he was lambasted like few coaches in modern NFL history for a particular coaching decision. Now it’s common fare.
(Also, they got screwed, it was 100% a first down)
FWIW, front page of my ESPN feed
Maybe their algorithm noticed I post in this thread and so is feeding me this content?
It's account/location based. When I'm signed in I see the same, if I open it in Incognito mode I get a different picture and sub-headline for the Week 11 questions.
The team is going absolutely nowhere, why not be bold? What are you protecting against? You lost anyway.
It's so fucking frustrating. The NFL is chock full of younger coaches who don't make in-game decisions like it is 1985 and the Pats are punting from the 45 yard line, and running draw after draw after draw on first down.
It's so fucking frustrating. The NFL is chock full of younger coaches who don't make in-game decisions like it is 1985 and the Pats are punting from the 45 yard line, and running draw after draw after draw on first down.
Right, but 4th and 2 was in 2009, and toward the end of the game. That was nearly six years later. He always knew. The 2003 AFCCG was literally the first drive of the game on their own half of the field, in lousy weather no less.
Sure
I was just pointing out, as grist for the mill, that there are people in the sports media who are questioning Mayo's in-game coaching and decision making.
In the Globe this morning I'm seeing Chad Finn, Shaughnessy ('natch), and Ben Volin all taking shots at Mayo.
Headlines:
- "Jerod Mayo is not coaching to win, and it cost the Patriots against the Rams"
- "The Patriots’ defensive plan against Matthew Stafford worked out well — for the Rams"
- "Jerod Mayo once called his Patriots soft, but he is coaching in a similar fashion"
It's an inidication of a critical weakness... they have been HORRENDOUS at getting schemed pressure, where the team last year was good at it. Having to blitz a guy you know kills blitz because you are unable to scheme pressure any other way is a failing.
One could argue that the team develops more when they're playing in games that are theoretically close and winnable. Seemed like all of Mayo's decisions yesterday were about keeping the game "winnable" as opposed to potentially failing and crashing out with a lot of time left to play.
Agree or disagree, but it's not an implausible approach.
I don't know, I think the decisions he made yesterday smacks of a coach playing not to lose instead of playing to win.
I'm not as down on Mayo as some others here. The roster is shitty, but they are a couple of plays from having 2-3 more wins even though the teams they are facing week to week almost always have more talent than they do. But, a game like yesterday is just frustrating to watch from a fan's perspective.
I get it. I just don't think it's too difficult to see what Mayo's trying to do with those "conservative" in game decisions. I don't know if I'd call it playing "not to lose" as much as it is "playing to extend the chance of winning the game as long as possible". Maybe I'm wrong, but I do think there's a difference. And when you have a team that's purely playing for developmental reasons, maybe that's not the worst idea?
If I recall correctly, the talking heads and dumber coaches in the league used to parrot the strategy of "Brady hates a crowded pocket", and "You need to knock him off his spot to have a chance", and as a result advocated blitzing the shit out of him.
Only problem was Brady had such other-worldly processing and a quick release (and pocket management skills) that (as I recall) he actually got better when blitzed. Going fast wasn't a problem, and it opened up more opportunities for him to take advantage of. The teams that made life hard for Brady were the ones who could get there with four rushers (e.g. The Scottish Game).
Stafford ain't Brady, because no one is, but the logic holds. He's a smart, accurate quarterback with a good release. Maybe don't blitz all the time.
Only problem was Brady had such other-worldly processing and a quick release (and pocket management skills) that (as I recall) he actually got better when blitzed. Going fast wasn't a problem, and it opened up more opportunities for him to take advantage of. The teams that made life hard for Brady were the ones who could get there with four rushers (e.g. The Scottish Game).
Stafford ain't Brady, because no one is, but the logic holds. He's a smart, accurate quarterback with a good release. Maybe don't blitz all the time.
Changing the subject slightly from the micro to the macro view, what has happened to the Pats D's ability to generate turnovers. Right now, the Pats D has 4 INTs and 4 recovered fumbles. That ties them for 25th total, but really more like tied for 29th when you factor in games played.
They are tied for 9th in the most turnovers by their offense (actually more like 12th when you factor for GP). So their -6 diff is tied for 25th.
I'm neither surprised nor dismayed by the offense's showing, but the D has lost their identity of a unit that generates a lot of TOs. Only 4 teams have fewer INTs and only 8 have fewer fumbles recovered.
They are tied for 9th in the most turnovers by their offense (actually more like 12th when you factor for GP). So their -6 diff is tied for 25th.
I'm neither surprised nor dismayed by the offense's showing, but the D has lost their identity of a unit that generates a lot of TOs. Only 4 teams have fewer INTs and only 8 have fewer fumbles recovered.
Turnovers are super volatile year to year and they simply have played much more competent QBs than in the recent past (where it seemed like every week the opponent's starter was injured).
They also only had 10 INTs last year, along with 15 FF and 9 FR. The current year numbers represent a decline from that pace but not really that far off, especially if we focus on FF rather than FR (which are very luck dependent).
Its been a couple years since they were a big ballhawking defense.
I am the same.
I think a lot of the more conservative playcalling is part of the Maye development. My sense is that they know Maye can make plays that help them win and carry them. But I also think that they don't want to create a situation where the only way they win is The Drake Maye Show, with him making unlikely throws outside of the pocket and scrambling around for first downs. I think they are doing that for two reasons:
1) Team Execution. I think they want the rest of the team to step up and execute and not rely on one player to constantly bail them out. For instance, this is why they keep running the ball with Stevenson (which has been improving the last few weeks after bottoming out in Tennessee).
2) QB Expectations. I strongly suspect Mayo/AVP are trying to minimize the pressure on their young quarterback. The NEP just saw what happens with a young QB who takes it upon himself to make up for a subpar roster's performance. It messes with their mental makeup and eventually translates into bad decision-making. Right now, Maye is making *great* decisions for the most part because he feels increasingly in control of the system around him. They're not asking him to do everything even if it could be argued they need to.
I get why this is not satisfying from a fan perspective -- we'd all rather Maye's arm and legs lead them to victory week after week. But I do think if you forced them to choose, Mayo and AVP would prefer to come up short on games they played "the right way"--with a balanced attack and a culture where guys buy in and do their jobs--than winning a few extra games because they asked one guy to do it all.
I think you can make the case for some PLAYCALLING being conservative to develop Maye (say the runs on 2nd and 3rd and short, etc.). I think there is no argument that Mayo's both arch conservative choices in ending drives or his complete lack of preparation is.... we have taken a ton of delay penalties and timeouts because Mayo doesn't have a plan and has to waste time deciding what to do.
I'll be honest, nothing about Mayo's in-game decisions or lack of adjustments makes me think he is a guy who can make quick decisions, or has the kind of extensive planning and preparation for every situation and reaction that we became accustomed to over the Bill years. Listen, very few (but almost all the best) coaches are ever going to be as exhaustively prepared as Bill, or willing/able to change on the fly.... but the bare minimum to be an NFL coach with any success at all is....
1. Prepared to make quick decisions
2. Having at least 1 plan B when things aren't working.
There's a quote I saw years ago, attributed to Dwight Eisenhower, that went something along the lines of "In all my years in military leadership there was nothing more valuable than the planning process, and nothing more useless than the plans that came out of it"
I've always thought of Belichick-- obviously, an Annapolis brat-- in this light
My theory is why Mayo tends to be conservative is, he is a defensive coach. These guys always believe they can stop someone on a long field or force a three and out.
My beef is why wasn't Gonzalez shadowing Nacua or Kupp all game?
My beef is why wasn't Gonzalez shadowing Nacua or Kupp all game?
Funny thing is there are really 2 types of defensive guys with this view....
Mayo types who get insanely conservative and basically say "we need to win this by not giving up 21"
Campbell types who get aggressive on the idea "if we don't make it, I trust my guys to stop them"
Like Campbell would have been 4 down planning on the eventual punt, because his thought process is always going to be that a good chance at points is more valuable than 20 yards for his defense, and he'd likely go on 4th and short deep as well on the idea that you need a TD to put pressure on, and if he misses, his D will make the stop and get the ball back almost in FG range.
Belongs in this thread…. And changing topic slightly, but…
Might be too early to speculate but of all the Pats staff, kind of looks like DC Covington is the most vulnerable. Will depend on how he goes with Barmore and Dugger rounding back into form over the next two weeks, and whether he is seen to make adjustments in game.
Noone would doubt it’s been a tough road due to injuries, but if you can’t make adjustments based on what you see unfolding (as the game declares itself like BB famously said) that’s probably the most damning factor.
edit: just watching how futile the Pats blitzing looked yesterday and the inability to adjust after it clearly didn’t work at all in the first half. That said, they did manage to keep it close enough to attempt the comeback fourth quarter, so I guess that’s progress.
Might be too early to speculate but of all the Pats staff, kind of looks like DC Covington is the most vulnerable. Will depend on how he goes with Barmore and Dugger rounding back into form over the next two weeks, and whether he is seen to make adjustments in game.
Noone would doubt it’s been a tough road due to injuries, but if you can’t make adjustments based on what you see unfolding (as the game declares itself like BB famously said) that’s probably the most damning factor.
edit: just watching how futile the Pats blitzing looked yesterday and the inability to adjust after it clearly didn’t work at all in the first half. That said, they did manage to keep it close enough to attempt the comeback fourth quarter, so I guess that’s progress.
I think the sense of control came from the fact that the Pats had possession for 37:20. The Pats have had 26 games since 2002 where they had that much TOP, and their record in those games was 26-0 before yesterday. The cover 0 TD + the sack fumble into TD both were extremely short, extremely productive drives for the Rams. It meant NE was on offense for long stretches.
I agree that I expected them to lose and they felt behind the whole way.
Sure, but that feels a lot more effective on a team with Jared Goff, David Montgomery and Amra St. Brown than a rookie Maye, Rham (who I like more than most here) and whoever the hell is receiving the ball.
I don't doubt that one thing Mayo is struggling with is juggling ALL THE THINGS at once (tho I don't remember a lot of timeouts because they didn't get the play in on time -- that's actually gone way better than the last few years with Patricia and Mac glaring at one another). The huge wind controversy with the Titans game just feels like something I'd expect in a rookie coach, even an undoubtedly talented one.
But I do think the evidence suggests Mayo is focused on the most important thing which is putting Maye in positions to succeed. I think we may be overstating if not the frequency of the other things at least their importance in the grand scheme of things.
It may not be fair but I think AVP is probably on more of a hot seat than Covington. AVP is an outsider and the focus is almost entirely on Maye. I think it AVP has been fine and Maye looks awesome so AVP deserves some credit, but the Kraft's have reportedly been making calls around the league regarding QB development. Doesn't seem to bode well for AVP, on field results be damned.
Covington is an internal guy and they can blame the defensive issues on the injuries.
The thing about Campbell though is... he was always that guy, he took over a terrible team, he built the culture and the identity of the team by doing things the right way, by showing faith in his guys and by steadfastly standing by it at all times and taking all the blame if there was any. As to Maye.. I mean by everyone's admission he basically only works with TC, AVP and a couple offensive guys. Other than maybe the decision on when to start him Mayo doesn't have much of anything to do with his development.
Edit- my biggest problem with Mayo isn't just that he makes a bunch of mistakes and dumb decisions.... it's I don't see much of anything he's doing well, I don't see any progress in terms of correcting his mistakes, and.... I don't see any indication he thinks he's making mistakes... whenever he's questioned about anything he whines and then dodges. Bill could be dismissive of criticism because he had 30+ years of being one of the best to do it. He also always seemed to have a good reason for what he did and consistently applied principles.
We have? Honestly, that's one thing that I've been pleasantly surprised about this season. Are their numbers that show we've taken an inordinate amount of delays and decision-related TOs?
Sure, but it’s a lot easier to “show faith in the guys around you“ when those guys have led a team to a Super Bowl. This is much more of a team in transition roster-wise than what Campbell inherited in Detroit. And lest we forget, Dan Campbell coached his team to a 29–0 loss two years ago to a Patriots squad led by Bailey Zappe. So things can change.
With AVP it really comes down to in my opinion is who the organization believes is responsible for the development of Drake Maye between AVP, McAdoo and TC Mccartney. I think Breer mentioned last week that TC was Drake’s guy. If that’s true, then AVP could be on the hot seat.
For all the talk about how much of a mess Drake Maye was coming in, worst mechanics, worst footwork, he should sit for 2 years talk, someone is doing something very good. Sanchez sucks as an announcer but he‘s amongst a growing crew Orlofski etc. who love Maye’s mechanics who used to bury him.
I’m sure all 3 are involved, but if it’s 95% TC for example, AVP could easily be gone. I think AVP’s done a pretty good job lately.
@Van Everyman mentioned it and obvious they are calm and collected on offense, they huddle up, they get to the line with 14-18 seconds on the play clock most of the time and it’s not a mess. I know that is low expectations but that hasn’t been the case in a couple years and you watch other teams who can barely get plays off.
For all the talk about how much of a mess Drake Maye was coming in, worst mechanics, worst footwork, he should sit for 2 years talk, someone is doing something very good. Sanchez sucks as an announcer but he‘s amongst a growing crew Orlofski etc. who love Maye’s mechanics who used to bury him.
I’m sure all 3 are involved, but if it’s 95% TC for example, AVP could easily be gone. I think AVP’s done a pretty good job lately.
@Van Everyman mentioned it and obvious they are calm and collected on offense, they huddle up, they get to the line with 14-18 seconds on the play clock most of the time and it’s not a mess. I know that is low expectations but that hasn’t been the case in a couple years and you watch other teams who can barely get plays off.
Yeah, the narrative change on Campbell happened fast and furious. It wasn't that long ago that he was considered a doofus.
Detroit found Aidan Hutchinson, Amon-Ra St. Brown, Penei Sewell, Jameson Williams, Brian Branch, Sam Laporta, Jahmyr Gibbs and Jack Campbell in three drafts. Add the Goff trade and that's how you completely rebuild your talent base in the short term on your way to contention. Sure, they have great scheme, great coordinators, Campbell appears to be a leader of men, but that roster is a wagon right now. If the Pats can hit their picks in that same way, my guess is a lot of coaches will come out looking great as well.
We took a delay yesterday, took a delay on 4th in the MIA game, We took a timeout I believe against the Bears to decide what to do on a 4th an 1, Timeout on 4th and 1 against SF)
I guess you could argue that a lot of the ones throughout the year have been intentional (yesterday's clear one, JAX, MIA but it got declined, terrible one against SF.
I don't think we have more communication delay/timeouts than previously... what we seem to have is more timeout/delay in key 4th down decisions. That to me indicates a lack of conviction/planning.
I'll also say that we have multiple intentional delay of game penalties into a punt from inside FG range (3 or 4 depending whether you think Slye could maybe hit a 58 yarder) many on 4th and short.... this is the scardest coaching in the league.
The play yesterday where Polk got the penalty, that otherwise would have been a delay, is fair game to criticize. But most of the ones you mention are circumstances where even good coaches take a TO or play the delay game. Bill called his fair share of TOs on 4th and short late in games.
I'm fine with people ripping Mayo. But I don't think this is an area where he's been particularly negligent.
I just went down a rabbit hole on TC McCartney and his family. Maybe this has been discussed on the board before and I missed the conversation but...wow.
His father was former Colorado QB Sal Aunese and his mother was Kristy McCartney, the daughter of legendary Colorado coach Bill McCartney. Aunese tragically died of cancer at 21 right after TC was born in 1989. I vaguely remember stories about his death because Colorado won the national championship the next year and dedicated the season to him but not that he had a kid with McCartney's daughter. But the kicker is that Kristy also then had another kid by another Colorado player that her dad coached, Shannon Clavelle. It seems like both kids were raised by their mom but with a pretty heavy presence from grand-dad.
His father was former Colorado QB Sal Aunese and his mother was Kristy McCartney, the daughter of legendary Colorado coach Bill McCartney. Aunese tragically died of cancer at 21 right after TC was born in 1989. I vaguely remember stories about his death because Colorado won the national championship the next year and dedicated the season to him but not that he had a kid with McCartney's daughter. But the kicker is that Kristy also then had another kid by another Colorado player that her dad coached, Shannon Clavelle. It seems like both kids were raised by their mom but with a pretty heavy presence from grand-dad.
Zero sacks. None. Zilch.
No pressure even when we blitzed.
Stafford will eat you alive with those receivers if he isn't pressured.
That tells me the problem is personnel.
I don't think AVP is worried at all - nor should he. Nothing is harder in the NFL than developing a QB - you don't mess when it when it goes well.
The one against the Bears I didn't think was indecision. They were lined up and then took a TO but they weren't scrambling to the line or late. I interprested that one as more of they didn't like the look the Bears gave them, or, originally thought it was a try-to-draw-them-off then kick.
Yesterday they had a 4th and 12 from the Rams 37 up 7-0. This was after the Lowe illegal formation wiped out a first down conversion. They did take a delay of game on this but it was intentional, the punt unit was on the field the whole time and they did it to create room. The decision to punt can be questioned but FWIW, I was in the 300's on that end and the wind was swirling pretty good. I didn't watch the kickers warming up but thought that end would be tough to make a long kick. McAvay punted from the 35 going in the same direction when a 52-yarder would've put them up 9 with 2:30 left.
I'm not sure on some of the timeouts prior to 4th downs is them being scared or indecisive but rather over analyzing. They might be falling into the trap of seeing what the defense is showing and trying to call the perfect play rather than just calling the next one on the playsheet.
Yesterday they had a 4th and 12 from the Rams 37 up 7-0. This was after the Lowe illegal formation wiped out a first down conversion. They did take a delay of game on this but it was intentional, the punt unit was on the field the whole time and they did it to create room. The decision to punt can be questioned but FWIW, I was in the 300's on that end and the wind was swirling pretty good. I didn't watch the kickers warming up but thought that end would be tough to make a long kick. McAvay punted from the 35 going in the same direction when a 52-yarder would've put them up 9 with 2:30 left.
I'm not sure on some of the timeouts prior to 4th downs is them being scared or indecisive but rather over analyzing. They might be falling into the trap of seeing what the defense is showing and trying to call the perfect play rather than just calling the next one on the playsheet.
As a note, I was talking about the delay of game on 4th and goal at the 2 before the FG as the heinous one. The other was clearly intentional.
I don't think it's his biggest issue, but it feeds into the other issues (gameplan, adjustment, etc.) where it just seems like a wildly unprepared coach.
total side note.
Patriots have taken an intentional delay to punt in FG range 3 times...
SF- downed inside the 10, 49ers drive all the way to our 3.
MIA- 19 yard net on a TB- but they do stop MIA on their 2nd set of downs.
LA- 17 yard net on a TB- LA drives down the field for an easy TD
I need them to stop this, it's terrible coaching given where this defense/ST unit is
EDIT- so something I just heard.... Mayo on why they didn't make the Rams re-punt..... I thought he was going to say he wanted to make sure we got an extra play before the 2 minute (I think it's dumb, taking the ball at the 10, but whatever)...... nope, he said "We were worried they would pin us further back than the 10".... that's not coaching scared, that's coaching TERRIFIED.
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I think yesterday was a great example of him being able to succeed without great mechanics. He often threw off of one foot, off-balance, across his body, sidearm, etc. and most of it worked. He honestly seems more Mahomes at times than Josh Allen(if we're doing the comp thing). It's exciting to think of the upside with the kid if/when the line gets ironed out because he looks like he can command the pocket and make exceptional improvisational moves when things break down.
The SF one was a 4th and 3 from the SF 41. That's a 58 yarder. Slye made a 61 yarder that day so I guess it's FG range, but it is on the edge and we'd probably be killing him just as much if he kicked and missed. I would've gone for it but at that point in the year they had the worst offense and gaining 3 yards was not easy. It was the first drive of the game coming off the Jets game where they had gainined 139 total yards. Of course the defense stinks too so it was kind of a pick your poison. I know we look at it as "well, we suck, who cares, just go for it" but I think coaches look at things much differently.
The Miami one was a 4th and 8 from the Miami 43. It was the 4th quarter and they were ahead 10-9. I'm not sure that's an obvious go? Brissett had like 75 yards passing in the entire game to that point.
I don't know. I'm not as worked up about the in game go/no go decisions as everyone else. He's conservative but there are conservative head coaches out there. McVay is one. The Patriots players haven't given him much reason to be aggressive. THe main reason people cite on go/no go stuff is "they're 3-8, they have nothing to lose." I'm much more concerned about things like the blitzing Stafford over and over again as he is torching you.
This statement is contradictory/wrong in a few places.
First, blitzing is a way to scheme pressure. It's probably the primary way teams scheme to get pressure. What other schemes are you thinking the Patriots should have implemented? I suppose they could have had linemen stunt or dive specific gaps (and maybe they did), but considering they were getting destroyed in the running game and stunting/diving gaps can turn a bad run defense into a putrid one, I can understand why they didn't want to do this (or pivoted away from it in the first half). Maybe they could have disguised their coverage more, rotated coverages more frequently, etc, but...I mean, I have no idea how often they were doing those things during the game. Do you have that insight?
The other issue with your statement is that you're connecting their success last year to essentially, "better schemed pressures, less blitzing" (paraphrasing/summarizing). The defensive play calling is definitely not maximizing the talent on the team, but the biggest issue is that the front 7 suck at getting pressure. They ranked 28th in sacks last year, 31st in QB knockdowns. Counter to your statement, they did that while blitzing the fourth most - 35.2% - in the NFL. Last years blitz heavy strategy lead to a high hurry rate (4th highest) as QB's rushed to beat the blitz pressure, as well as shorter yards per attempt (7th), low Air yards (9th), and great YAC (4th) as WR's don't get to develop their angles/routes. Last year, the coaches knew they were going to struggle getting pressure without the blitz, so they opted to go blitz heavy and force QBs to make short/easy passes - if they could make the read in time. Essentially, a typical BB defense - make the other team execute consistently for the length of the field.
This season, they're blitzing significantly less - 22.5% - and I attribute that as the primary factor in the slip on defense. While their overall sack/pressure numbers remain similar to last year, their hurries have now dropped as well. What does that mean? Duh. The extra time given is allowing deeper routes to develop and for teams to take bigger chunk plays out of the defense. They've gone from 9th best in air yards to 6th worst. 7th best in yards/completion and yards/attempt to 9th/10th worst respectively.
The players are largely the same, the DC (Covington) and HC were with the Patriots last year, as were both secondary coaches and Hightower (ILB). Theres continuity across the board, so I don't think theres been some seismic shift or drastic change to the defense that would imply this drop-off. I'm of the opinion the team should blitz more consistently, but with less sellout blitzes like we saw yesterday.
Other than that? The game yesterday didn't really tell me much about the defense that we didn't already know. They lack talent, and if the coaches aren't going to be skilled enough to maximize the talent they do have, then they better find some fucking talent ASAP.
That's actually the decision and rationale that I hate the most because its not only coaching terrified it just suggests that he is not thinking about strategy beyond an elementary level.
Not only is your expected starting position obviously better than the 10 on a repunt, but you want to increase variance in this situation. Your odds suck of driving 90 yards in two minutes with a bad offense that can't protect the QB long enough to make chunk plays. You should be delighted to get another chance to get the ball in Marcus Jones' hands on a punt return.
Against the Bears last week, they executed perfectly at the end of the half in order to kick a late field goal. Could not ask for much more, the ball was clocked with 1 second left and everyone was lined up in position.
Yesterday when Polk got called for the illegal formation, it was a total fire drill. This was not the exact same situation, but it was frustrating to see that they were clearly all not on the same page. Guys were running on and off the field and they could not line up properly.
In that same sequence, they wasted 2 full minutes of game time without advancing the ball much. The part about that whole thing that drove me crazy was not reviewing the spot on after the Stevenson run. I know this isn't on Mayo specifically, but isn't there someone upstairs for this type of scenario? Being "conservative" is all well and good until your down by 2 scores late in the game.
Yesterday when Polk got called for the illegal formation, it was a total fire drill. This was not the exact same situation, but it was frustrating to see that they were clearly all not on the same page. Guys were running on and off the field and they could not line up properly.
In that same sequence, they wasted 2 full minutes of game time without advancing the ball much. The part about that whole thing that drove me crazy was not reviewing the spot on after the Stevenson run. I know this isn't on Mayo specifically, but isn't there someone upstairs for this type of scenario? Being "conservative" is all well and good until your down by 2 scores late in the game.
The issue isn't whether or not Mayo is going to make mistakes. He will. Lots of them. He's a rookie HC. That's par for the course. The question is whether or not he will learn from them and be better going forward. I'll take a rookie HC who makes lots of mistakes and learn from them - especially given the state of the rest of the team - any time.
I'm not sure, however, what the answer is to that second, most important, question.
I'm not sure, however, what the answer is to that second, most important, question.
One note I saw from I think Alex Barth?.... the Polk false start sucked, but also probably didn't matter because they were not going to get the snap off in time, it was going to be another delay of game.
FWIW, I don't think there was going to be a return opportunity for Jones. If the Pats elected to have the Rams re-kick, the Rams wouuld still be punting from the NE 40. Punting on a short field almost never results in a return, it was likely going to be out of bounds/coffin corner punt or a moon ball for a fair catch/hope it rolls into the end zone.
The Rams punter has only kicked 1 touchback this year and 56% of his punts pin teams inside the 20 so he seems pretty good. I also thought he kicked an excellent punt the series before that pinned Jones on the sideline with plenty of hang time so all he could do was fair catch. If NE had him re-kick they're basically daring him to pin them inside the 10 twice in a row. Maybe he does it, who knows. But the best case scenario for the Pats is probably a touchback or he doesn't execute as well and they get squeeze a few more yards out of it.
In real time I was OK with just taking the ball and the 5 yards. I can see an argument for trying to get a touchback now that I think more about it but there's also bad things that could happen to NE on a re-kick. Kicker kicks a better punt, there's a holding call, roughing the punter, the returner muffs it, etc.
I could see it both ways, didn't think it was egregious.
I agree that a good return opportunity is unlikely. My overall point is that (a) your average starting position is surely better than the 10 and (b) this is a situation where you should be embracing variance. You should be very willing to trade off the possibility of starting at the 3 yard line with the possibility of starting at the 20+ due to a touchback, shank, block, or good return from one of the league's best returners (if he does get a chance).
Mayo coaches like a guy in a poker tournament who is trying to fold into the money.
So, it seems like lots of reporters in Cleveland are fairly sure that Stefanski is going to be out soon, and Vrabel is going to be installed as the new HC
This makes me wonder if it might not be a chance to poach Jim Schwartz in the offseason to come and run our defense. Schwartz is one of those guys who's likely going to never get another HC gig, but is a great DC.
If we need to make him 'Assistant Head Coach' and have Kraft throw money at him, great.
This makes me wonder if it might not be a chance to poach Jim Schwartz in the offseason to come and run our defense. Schwartz is one of those guys who's likely going to never get another HC gig, but is a great DC.
If we need to make him 'Assistant Head Coach' and have Kraft throw money at him, great.
I am not a “Mayo sucks” guy, but if the Browns fire Stefanski, I would be fine with the Pats dumping Mayo and hiring Stefanski as soon as he’d be willing to join the team.
Obviously, I don't know what's going in Kraft's head any more than anyone else, but I'm in the camp that has a hard time seeing Mayo or Wolf getting fired after one season.
I think a more realistic intervention is to bring in someone like Schwartz to get our defense back on track, and perhaps a 'Senior Advisor' to lead a revamp the 'draft-and-develop' side of the shop. This saves face for Kraft while taking some clear measures to make things better.
I think there isn't much chance at this point that Kraft makes them fire anybody... AVP is doing too well, and particularly the #1 thing he was brought in to do (develop Maye) is going great. Mayo is Bob's handpicked guy and the tie to "the Dynasty", I also think he won't make Mayo fire the DC given he is also a young internal hire and he was clearly more the Mayo pick.
Adding an "advisor" or two to the staff (ala the Raiders and their own overmatched rookie HC) makes sense. Not sure if McAdoo will move on after this year.
Schwartz makes sense, though I think he'll go somewhere and be the DC right away. Stefanski is interesting, he has a relationship with Wolf, relationships with AVP and Peters. He'll likely want to take a year.
Adding an "advisor" or two to the staff (ala the Raiders and their own overmatched rookie HC) makes sense. Not sure if McAdoo will move on after this year.
Schwartz makes sense, though I think he'll go somewhere and be the DC right away. Stefanski is interesting, he has a relationship with Wolf, relationships with AVP and Peters. He'll likely want to take a year.
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