Hayward to Boston...Really, We Mean It

bosockboy

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I'm sure that the Jazz are focused on Boston's Jae Crowder, as they could use a cost-controlled SF right about now. But I don't see Ainge giving away Crowder when the whole point of a sign-and-trade (as opposed to a straight signing) would be to keep him along with Smart and Bradley. I suppose the Globe headline would read "Celtics focused on Terry Rozier and Demetrius Jackson."
Could Ainge possibly be interested in someone like Favors? Without knowing the cap rules on this, would Crowder+Olynk for Hayward+Favors work?
 

Deathofthebambino

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All sorts of talk about a sign and trade with Utah involving Crowder and Hayward, but don't see any discussion here. Can someone explain what a sign and trade would be in this instance, and who the C's could potentially get back?
 

DrewDawg

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All sorts of talk about a sign and trade with Utah involving Crowder and Hayward, but don't see any discussion here. Can someone explain what a sign and trade would be in this instance, and who the C's could potentially get back?
It's in the other thread...the Cap Clearing Trade thread.
 

phenweigh

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Sure but we can assume a large portion of Jazz fans and his readers are Mormon, yes? That's kind of my point. He's playing the "we don't want you anyway because you're gay" and that's kind of how a lot of gay kids feel in and around SLC. So I think it's particularly shitty, even if the writer doesn't understand that or even have personal animus toward gay folks.
I'd like to mention that the mayor of SLC is lesbian.

Not that it changes the idea that piece was horrible, but since my son moved to SLC, I've learned the city itself is rather progressive.
 

uncannymanny

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Boston --> NYC --> LA --> NYC
Yes. Yes, he is. Amazing body control and ball control at all times. It's really a joy to watch him play basketball, and I can't wait to see him in our offense.
Hadn't watched much (any?) Utah ball since Malone and Stockton so Ive only seen GH in passing on single game highlights. The body control was the first thing that jumped out to me. I think I'm most impressed by his cuts to the basket though, especially off his own passes. He's going to score a ton in this offense.
 

joe dokes

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Spitballing pessimism....

Given the well-documented relationship between Stephens and Cheywould, is there any chance of a teacher's pet blowback?
 

DavidTai

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Spitballing pessimism....

Given the well-documented relationship between Stephens and Cheywould, is there any chance of a teacher's pet blowback?
Here's an article that talks about how the two worked together in Butler:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2718970-he-saw-the-potential-inside-the-gordon-hayward-brad-stevens-bromance

From the article: said:
Before long, Stevens and Hayward developed a deep trust on the floor. Stevens would draw up plays for Hayward as is if he were a point guard. He fed him the ball as often as he could, but only so long as it served the team. Meanwhile, off the court, and even on the sidelines, there was no special treatment, no mentor-protege relationship that might threaten the larger team concept.

“Gordon’s relationship with Brad wasn’t different from any relationship Brad had with his players,” says Ron Nored, a four-year Butler guard who now coaches the Brooklyn Nets' G League team. “Brad coached everyone fairly. That’s Butler in a nutshell. The walk-on, the manager, the head coach, the best player—we’re all a part of something bigger than ourselves. I would say that’s the Butler Way.”
I don't think I've heard any reports about Stevens doing anything differently than this in Boston, so I'd lean towards 'Possible, but not likely.'

Actually, strike that, I'd lean more towards the -media- wildly speculating that than anything internal actually happening. Dibs on Mazz and Felger being the first to do so.
 

joe dokes

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Here's an article that talks about how the two worked together in Butler:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2718970-he-saw-the-potential-inside-the-gordon-hayward-brad-stevens-bromance



I don't think I've heard any reports about Stevens doing anything differently than this in Boston, so I'd lean towards 'Possible, but not likely.'

Actually, strike that, I'd lean more towards the -media- wildly speculating that than anything internal actually happening. Dibs on Mazz and Felger being the first to do so.

Oh I doubt it, too. And now that you mention it, maybe I was subconsciously thinking about media narrative if they lose on opening night. I can see your F&M, and raise it by their comparing it to Austin Rivers (with them overlooking, of course, that Hayward can actually play NBA basketball)..
 

DrewDawg

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https://sports.yahoo.com/gordon-haywards-ex-teammate-thinks-theres-less-pressure-boston-191148689.html

Now, ex-Jazz teammate Trevor Booker, who left Utah for the Brooklyn Nets in unrestricted free agency last summer, felt the need to interpret the reasoning behind Hayward’s exit for him, even though the 27-year-old did well to explain it himself on deadline in a 2,000-word column for The Players’ Tribune.

“Gordon’s a guy who doesn’t really want to be the man. … I’m not sure he wanted a franchise on his shoulders. Gordon’s a great player, and one of the best players in the league. But I wasn’t really surprised at his choice. I heard the rumors.”

Those comments reflect what Booker told HoopsHype’s Alex Kennedy with less zing two days earlier:

“I wouldn’t say I’m surprised he left. When I was there, I heard rumors — I don’t know how true they were — but I heard rumors about him wanting to leave. Boston picked up a tremendous player. Gordon can really play. I still think he’s one of the most underrated players in the NBA. He can really hoop, but I wasn’t surprised to see him go. I was hoping he would’ve stayed, because the Jazz were already legit, and with everybody growing around him, they could’ve really made some noise.

“But I’m not sure if he wanted to be that star with all the pressure on his shoulders. So, I think that might’ve had something to do with him going to Boston, where he can rely on Isaiah Thomas and whoever else to back him up and take that pressure off his shoulders. Maybe Isaiah, because he’s a superstar, where in Utah, he’s playing in the Western Conference, and it was a little bit tougher.”
This presumes Hayward wants neither to be a star on the Celtics nor to feel the pressure in Boston. Two thoughts immediately spring to mind that run contrary to Booker’s contention: Hayward became the Celtics’ best player immediately upon going to Boston, and there is far more pressure joining the Eastern Conference finalists than there was standing pat with the Western Conference semifinalists.

In fact, even the Jazz argued Gobert is better than anybody on the Celtics’ roster in their free agency pitch to Hayward, per the same Salt Lake Tribune inside look that featured Booker’s commentary.
Hayward chose to be the man in Boston, and that’s his right in free agency. The only difference between stars and role players changing teams is the brightness of the spotlight and the intensity of the pressure. Booker may feel the weight of both when Brooklyn meets Boston four times this season.
 

DrewDawg

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And inside Utah's pursuit: http://local.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/chasing-gordon-hayward

The Salt Lake Tribune has learned that before the NBA draft, Hayward talked with George Hill, whom he had grown close to this past season after Hill was acquired from the Indiana Pacers and enjoyed a successful — if injury-plagued — season in Utah. Hayward made it clear to Hill during that phone conversation that his returning to Utah was nowhere close to guaranteed, say sources who asked not to be identified because of their relationship with Hayward and Hill
After the formal presentation, the Jazz sprung a surprise on Hayward, when teammates Gobert, Ingles, Hood and newcomer Rubio — who had flown in from Spain just for the occasion — walked through the door. They then ushered the All-Star into his backyard for another lengthy session to make their personal pitches to him.

By all accounts, Hayward was happy to see his friends.

The Millers were engaged and resolute throughout the meeting, according to sources. When it ended, Gail Miller asked Hayward straight up: "Will you stay with us? You know how important you are to our organization."

Hayward said he had a lot to think about and wanted to take the night to process his thoughts. The Jazz group offered to stay overnight in San Diego and return to visit Tuesday, but Hayward begged off, telling them he and his wife were wiped out from the previous three days.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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It's hard to point to one factor given the presence of the Warriors as well as the trades of both Paul and George before free agency but it feels as if Hayward would have stayed if the Jazz had treated him differently back in 2014, even if it was just a four year rather than five year contract without letting him go set his market.

As for the rest of it, Trevor Booker can say what he wants but he willingly went to the Nets. It's fine for him to get paid but his take on someone's desire to be "the man" lacks credibility.
 
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djbayko

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It sounds like Booker is holding some sort of grudge against him. People don't normally say things like that about a former teammate even if they are true.
 

snowmanny

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Globe interviewed his father regarding the decision:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2017/07/11/behind-scenes-look-gordon-hayward-decision/JphxlshDcZua7N03Qlm07M/story.html

The money quote:

Back at the team’s Waltham training facility, Stevens and Hayward analyzed clips of the Celtics and of Hayward. Stevens described how he would deploy him.

Even though Hayward is intimately familiar with Stevens’s style, seven years have passed since he last coached him. Hayward is a much better basketball player now, and as he sat with Stevens, it became more obvious that Stevens was a much better coach.

“Gordon said to me, ‘Dad, it was impressive. It was amazing,’ ” the father said.
/QUOTE]
 

DrewDawg

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Pretty cool that when clock struck midnight, Stevens didn't text Gordon, he text his Gordon's father.

Also:

Hayward wanted to go somewhere where an NBA championship was possible, but he had no interest in a ready-made situation, such as the one Kevin Durant entered when he signed with the Warriors last summer.

Hayward Sr. said that if the Celtics had defeated the Cavaliers in the conference finals, his son would have been less interested. But it was clear watching them get pummeled by LeBron James that they needed help, and perhaps he could provide it.
Doesn't really seem Miami was a huge threat, and more proof that Stevens was a big part of this.
 
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blueline

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Outing myself as a pink hat here, but seems odd they don't have any Hayward gear available on the Celtics online store yet. The whole signing has been kind of subdued.
 

luckiestman

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Outing myself as a pink hat here, but seems odd they don't have any Hayward gear available on the Celtics online store yet. The whole signing has been kind of subdued.

Just a reminder, to be a fan, it is not required to wear another man's name across your back as if you are his property.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Outing myself as a pink hat here, but seems odd they don't have any Hayward gear available on the Celtics online store yet. The whole signing has been kind of subdued.
Just a reminder, to be a fan, it is not required to wear another man's name across your back as if you are his property.
It would be interesting if a player decided to wear a different fan's name across his back for each game, under the theory that the fans are paying for the player's salary.

At any rate, it appears that if you do a custom jersey, you can get HayBurtward's name and number. See here: http://store.nba.com/Gordon_Hayward_Gear/Mens_Boston_Celtics_Fanatics_Branded_Green_Personalized_Baseline_Tri-Blend_T-Shirt

Also, the UT Haywardcleaver's jerseys are on discount if anyone wants one.
 

allstonite

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Outing myself as a pink hat here, but seems odd they don't have any Hayward gear available on the Celtics online store yet. The whole signing has been kind of subdued.
I think it's that the NBA is switching over to Nike but not until October so it's kind of in a strange place right now
 

DrewDawg

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Outing myself as a pink hat here, but seems odd they don't have any Hayward gear available on the Celtics online store yet. The whole signing has been kind of subdued.
It *may* have something to do with the new jersey deal starting this season. Redick isn't on the Sixers site yet either. If you click on his name it takes you to "Add any name" page, however Paul, since he was traded, is listed on Houston's page.
 

mt8thsw9th

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Outing myself as a pink hat here, but seems odd they don't have any Hayward gear available on the Celtics online store yet. The whole signing has been kind of subdued.
I saw a gigantic billboard on 1A on Sunday welcoming him to Boston, with this link: http://celtics.com/welcomegordon. I wouldn't call that "subdued". It advertises GH gear, but it doesn't appear to be available yet. I'm not sure why they don't take preorders but dunno.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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I saw a gigantic billboard on 1A on Sunday welcoming him to Boston, with this link: http://celtics.com/welcomegordon. I wouldn't call that "subdued". It advertises GH gear, but it doesn't appear to be available yet. I'm not sure why they don't take preorders but dunno.
Nike is taking over making uniforms this year from Adidas. It is possible that the signing took place after the license transfer and the new uniform designs aren't done yet.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Why are free agents all of sudden coming to the Cs? Apparently, it's because of Brad Stevens. Here's a bit:

But in crunch time, when it has been time for the Celtics to close, Boston has often spread the floor and let Stevens go isolation.

Armed with little more than a MacBook, Stevens has led a series of basketball-focused presentations aimed at showing these elite players exactly how he plans to maximize their talents. And that, Ainge believes, resonates more than anything else the Celtics can offer.

"It's from a coach's perspective, from how he sees this player fitting in. And Brad does it through video, he does it through statistics and analytics, and he shows it on the chalkboard," Ainge said. "He shows exactly what he's looking for from that player and how that player can be utilized.

"It's not fluff. And I think the players see that. It's not trying to make a case like, 'You have to come here because of this statistic.' It's real stuff. And I think that that's what players appreciate is that openness."
 

DrewDawg

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Also:

"There was just something different about Boston and different about being a Celtic," Hayward said last week. "It was just a special feeling when talking about being a Boston Celtic."
 

Eddie Jurak

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I have no trouble believing that about Stevens. When all is said and done, he could go down as Ainge's best move as Celtics GM.
 

sezwho

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It will be neck and neck with The Heist. It's close.
Funny, I hadn't really considered this before. Three high lottery picks is obviously fantastic, but there are numerous teams over the last decade that have made those. Having a coach that maximizes their on court performance and also tips the scales for elite free agents in back to back years is just stunning (and yes I give him a lot of credit for Horford as well though I can't find citations so maybe I don't have that correct?).

The piece I'm hesitating about is that its hard to separate Stevens impact from that of our ownership, GM and the general Celtics fandom/mystique.
 

DGreenwood

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Funny, I hadn't really considered this before. Three high lottery picks is obviously fantastic, but there are numerous teams over the last decade that have made those. Having a coach that maximizes their on court performance and also tips the scales for elite free agents in back to back years is just stunning (and yes I give him a lot of credit for Horford as well though I can't find citations so maybe I don't have that correct?).

The piece I'm hesitating about is that its hard to separate Stevens impact from that of our ownership, GM and the general Celtics fandom/mystique.
Regarding the bolded section: This trade comes up in any discussion of the worst NBA trades ever (from the Nets pov, obviously). The thing that makes it different than all of the other trades you are thinking of is that there was no protection on any of those picks, which is unusual and turned out to be a huge mistake since one of them was a number 3, the swap was a number 1, and next year's pick has a good chance to be very high as well.
 

smastroyin

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I think his point was more that many teams have made three high lottery picks.
 

smastroyin

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Outside of chickens and hatching problems, sure, only Philly has recently done that.