Hayward to Boston...Really, We Mean It

cannonball 1729

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Sep 8, 2005
2,539
The Sticks
Even worse, from SLC Dunk, the official Jazz outlet of SB Nation...

https://www.slcdunk.com/nba-free-agency/2017/7/4/15920034/nba-free-agency-2017-gordon-hayward-boston-celtics-utah-jazz-miami-heat-otto-porter-danilo-gallinari

I mean, I expected a fair measure of salt (!), but as an SBN mod/writer (on Golden State of Mind) I gotta say I was pretty shocked by the OP's unsubtle reference to Hayward's "coming out" and bold-type "#HappyPrideDayGordon" -- which the writer still has not deleted even after an LGBT poster stepped up to say how inappopriate it was.

Shades of the whole OKC "Cupcake" thing with Durant, only a lot more explicit and hateful.

Ah well ... I guess Thunder and Jazz fans do not deserve players (and people) who are as absolutely fabulous as Durant and Hayward. :)
It's been taken down. But not before it made Deadspin:

http://deadspin.com/lets-see-how-jazz-fans-are-taking-the-gordon-hayward-si-1796638647
 

jacklamabe65

A New Frontier butt boy
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Over the past 12 months Danny Ainge has added Al Horford and Gordon Hayward for free, while swapping KG and Pierce's rocking chairs for Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. Oh....and we still have the '18 Nets pick, the '18/19 Nets/Kings pick, and the future Memphis pick which can become unprotected in '21.

Let that sink in for a minute. So Auerbachian.
This.
 

Koufax

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,278
HRB forget to mention having acquired IT for free (yes, he gave up assets, but he got those for free); and Jae Crowder (plus a first round pick that turned into Guerschon Yabusele) for Rondo.

Auerbachian indeed.
 

JCizzle

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 11, 2006
9,616

Vegas Sox Fan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
1,268
The Dirty Desert
The interview made it sound like he had a relatively limited role, but it really drives home the fact that Danny has no intention of making him available in a trade (save completely unrealistic ones).
What's also interesting about that is the only Celtics that Hayward mentions by name in his article are IT and Al. I wonder if the presentation discussed who would be moved out or if they mentioned multiple options on the table.
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
3,080
New York City
What's also interesting about that is the only Celtics that Hayward mentions by name in his article are IT and Al. I wonder if the presentation discussed who would be moved out or if they mentioned multiple options on the table.
Yeah shades of LeBron not mentioning Wiggins or Bennett in his post announcing his return to the Cavs.
 

bosox79

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
9,986
The interview made it sound like he had a relatively limited role, but it really drives home the fact that Danny has no intention of making him available in a trade (save completely unrealistic ones).
Yep. Just like Kelly Olynyk being there for KD. Sure cemented his future in Boston.
 

lars10

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
5,269
What's also interesting about that is the only Celtics that Hayward mentions by name in his article are IT and Al. I wonder if the presentation discussed who would be moved out or if they mentioned multiple options on the table.
I think it's ok to mention the only two all stars on the team. I think he'd be more worried about omitting someone if he'd gone on some prolonged list.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
34,987
Maybe it did because he failed?!

Edit: or what jczzle said
It actually did, in the sense that signing Durant would have capped them out, with a likely result of matching RFA offers for Olynyk this year since we'd never have been in the Hayward sweepstakes or needed to clear FA space.
 
Last edited:

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
21,339
Melrose, MA
On top of that, any player who has changed teams or coaches gets an additional 20% regression to the mean to account for context changes.
Because doing that improves the model?

I am very optimistic in terms of fit with Hayward, so I think depending on what other moves are made, this may end up being conservative.
What do you make of Hawyard going from one of the slowest paced teams to a much faster paced team?
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
17,636
Portsmouth, NH
Honest question as I didn't follow Butler that year, but does Stevens run the same offense in Boston as he did at Butler? Would seem to be a natural fit to me but I'm open to someone more knowledgeable explaining the nuances and differences and would be glad to read it.
 

Kid T

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
793
San Francisco
I don't think Ainge is in BB territory either, but it is a lot harder to build and rebuild a team in the NBA. You can't make any/very many mistakes because of the much shorter roster, but team changing players also aren't available very often and most of them have incentives to stay where they are. Ainge has set up the team to have the most possible chances and has seemed to at least taken BB's draft strategy of accumulating picks and not being afraid of trading down.

You left out the most glaring difference - the NFL doesn't have fully guaranteed contracts so it's easier to get rid of your mistakes by just cutting a player. Contrast that to the NBA where teams have to send out draft picks or players as a sweetener for other teams to accept a bad contract in trade.
 

bosox79

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
9,986
Could they clear cap space doing an S&T for Hayward to target FA's they like better than Bradley and/or Crowder?

 

Kid T

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
793
San Francisco
Why not just spin off any players they would want in a S&T for picks (even a 2nd rounder)? The beauty of Hayward over PG is that he didn't cost any assets. It's not as if any of the C's players mentioned don't have any value or are perceived to have bad contracts.
 

jmm57

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
1,298
Waive Jordan Mickey and trade Jackson/Rozier to Utah for Hayward. It works.
What's the benefit for the Cs though? I'd think it would be easy to flip Rozier for a 2 if needed. Would it be that they don't need to match the fulle value of the contract in a trade?
 

bosox79

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
9,986
What's the benefit for the Cs though? I'd think it would be easy to flip Rozier for a 2 if needed. Would it be that they don't need to match the fulle value of the contract in a trade?
a 2 as in a 2nd rounder? I really like Rozier but I doubt he has that much value around the league. There's also KO and some other guys they could trade too.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
38,478
deep inside Guido territory
What's the benefit for the Cs though? I'd think it would be easy to flip Rozier for a 2 if needed. Would it be that they don't need to match the fulle value of the contract in a trade?
It's so Hayward can get the max and the Celtics don't have to dump Bradley/Crowder/Smart for nothing. Then they can revisit a trade for one of them later in the summer and get better value.
 

bosox79

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
9,986
And KO would actually fit in really nicely next to Gobert and Favors with his range.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
59,687
Oregon
The benefit for the C's is getting Hayward under contract. Dumping off players -- whether to the Jazz or somewhere else -- is the cost of doing business.
 

jmm57

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
1,298
I guess I must be over rating Rozier. I would have thought they could get a second round pick somewhere else rather than just dumping him.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
3,206
I guess I must be over rating Rozier. I would have thought they could get a second round pick somewhere else rather than just dumping him.
You might be able to, but as I understand it, if you're trading for Hayward rather than sign him as a free agent you only have to account for 11 roster spots rather than 12, since Hayward would be number 12. It allows Boston to have to clear 815K less space to fit in Hayward. It's so close, that it makes the difference between having to move one of Smart/Crowder/Bradley right now or not.

Probably worth a future second round pick if necessary.
 

bowiac

I've been living a lie.
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
12,309
New York, NY
Because doing that improves the model?
Yes. That's what I've found to be the best fit out of sample.

What do you make of Hawyard going from one of the slowest paced teams to a much faster paced team?
I think it should improve his efficiency for one thing, although that may be hard to tease out by itself. I imagine his minutes may decline down to 32-33, which should balance out possible fatigue issues.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
16,557
I'm still looking for the explanation about why he was there. Smart, Crowder, IT, of course. Same for TB12. But Olynyk?
My theory: if KD had signed it's possible that KO might have remained with the team as the Cs were capped our and had the right to match offers. Probably depended on what teams would have offered.
 

bosox79

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
9,986
I don't see how that makes any sense. I find it hard to believe that we couldn't get anything of value for 3 years of a cheap Crowder.
Somewhere on this board from today are tweets that the C's tried to trade him before 6/30 for a late first and there were no takers.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
3,206
Somewhere on this board from today are tweets that the C's tried to trade him before 6/30 for a late first and there were no takers.
Are you talking about this one?


Not late first, to late lottery teams for a pick and young player.
 

pjheff

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2003
438
I'm sure that the Jazz are focused on Boston's Jae Crowder, as they could use a cost-controlled SF right about now. But I don't see Ainge giving away Crowder when the whole point of a sign-and-trade (as opposed to a straight signing) would be to keep him along with Smart and Bradley. I suppose the Globe headline would read "Celtics focused on Terry Rozier and Demetrius Jackson."