Happy Yankees Elimination Day!

jon abbey

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But I wouldn't be surprised if there's a fair amount of truth there, the fan base's expectations are absolutely ridiculous. They booed Stanton during his first NY home game ever, after he had already had a multi-HR game for NY in BOS, and they freaking booed Judge for a few bad games after HE HIT 62 HRs.
 

Shaky Walton

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But I wouldn't be surprised if there's a fair amount of truth there, the fan base's expectations are absolutely ridiculous. They booed Stanton during his first NY home game ever, after he had already had a multi-HR game for NY in BOS, and they freaking booed Judge for a few bad games after HE HIT 62 HRs.
I was at the Old Stadium when they booed Mariano and Jeter. (Different dates).

I joined in lustily.

These remain among my favorite regular season sports memories of all time.
 

Archer1979

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But I wouldn't be surprised if there's a fair amount of truth there, the fan base's expectations are absolutely ridiculous. They booed Stanton during his first NY home game ever, after he had already had a multi-HR game for NY in BOS, and they freaking booed Judge for a few bad games after HE HIT 62 HRs.
As much truth as there is, one of Cashman's traits to attract free agents has always been... "We'll offer you more..." Same with Boston.

Money tends to make some of these problems go away.

In other words, if NY wants a free agent, most likely, they'll be in the pinstriped jersey with the interlocking NY cap proclaiming in front of the podium with the usual "This has always been a dream of mine" while the rest of us vomit.
 

E5 Yaz

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After reading that report, my first thought was how easily a comparison could be drawn to BBTL
 

jon abbey

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As much truth as there is, one of Cashman's traits to attract free agents has always been... "We'll offer you more..." Same with Boston.

Money tends to make some of these problems go away.

In other words, if NY wants a free agent, most likely, they'll be in the pinstriped jersey with the interlocking NY cap proclaiming in front of the podium with the usual "This has always been a dream of mine" while the rest of us vomit.
I don't think the issue is other team's free agents, NY rarely goes after those guys anymore anyway. The issue is guys who were on the current team and are now free agents, Judge and Rizzo and Carpenter, I can see them being a little irritated about the stupid-ass fanbase and wanting to go somewhere that is more consistently supportive.
 

curly2

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I think the Martino piece is much ado about nothing. Philadelphia fans can be brutal, and Bryce Harper witnessed that a lot as a Nat, but when the Phillies were the ones who offered the 13 years he was seeking, he jumped at it.

And when you win for a tough fan base, it can be extra sweet, as the 2022 Phillies are finding out.

I remember when Bruce Hurst left the Red Sox, he said something to the effect that baseball didn't need to be life and death the way Boston fans treated it. And after he went to laid-back San Diego, he said he kind of missed the atmosphere in Boston.

And I think part of the Yankees' fans' anger comes from the fact that they were like Secretariat early in the season, moving like a tremendous machine en route to a 61-23 record. Fans though this was the year -- and this Red Sox fan did, too, for much of the season. Injuries obviously hurt, but the people in the stands aren't thinking about how things might have been different if they'd had a healthy LeMahieu, King and Benintendi, they're just seeing Judge struggle and they're taking it out on him.
 

Archer1979

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I don't think the issue is other team's free agents, NY rarely goes after those guys anymore anyway. The issue is guys who were on the current team and are now free agents, Judge and Rizzo and Carpenter, I can see them being a little irritated about the stupid-ass fanbase and wanting to go somewhere that is more consistently supportive.

What's kind of odd is I can see the NY front office being frugal with each of those three. My overall point is that a few more dollars would basically wash away any issues that they would have with the fans. So, and you are correct as NY doesn't really go after the big ticket free agents like they used to, but if they really want to retain their own guys, it will be a matter of just spending a little more of Hank's money to sooth over any hurt feelings.

All that said, And I'm going to a little off the current topic, my prediction is that there will be at least one team that offers insane cash to Judge that no other front office in their right mind would ever offer to one individual player. It will be up to Cashman and Hank to see if they really want to handcuff their budget for the next ten years to retain Judge.
 

InsideTheParker

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Can't deny I find this delightful to read. But we should probably look at our own house. We too have had a lot of success and it can breed entitlement in our fans as well. There are thirty teams and several of them are really well-run and many of the others can get lucky at any time. Winning is hard.
Do Fenway fans do a lot of booing of their own players? That's what I found so shocking during alcs.
 

Ale Xander

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But I wouldn't be surprised if there's a fair amount of truth there, the fan base's expectations are absolutely ridiculous. They booed Stanton during his first NY home game ever, after he had already had a multi-HR game for NY in BOS, and they freaking booed Judge for a few bad games after HE HIT 62 HRs.
You, Wingack, Brand Name, and a few others, are the textbook example of exception that proves the rule.
 

Archer1979

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To be more precise, my wish is not just because of booing Judge, but the general cluelessness of the fan base and the anger and entitlement every year NY doesn't win a WS.
You've turned into the Bronx version of Thanos.

But I agree. Booing Judge is ridiculous. The problem is that Cashman and Hank don't take the field during the game so they have to boo someone!!!
 

Archer1979

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Boone does (take the field), at least for lineups and going over of the ground rules.
With his name, its hard to tell what if they're booing or yelling his name.

While Boone isn't all that great as a manager, he's not the one that constructs that two-dimensional roster which plows through the regular season only to yak up a fur ball in the playoffs.
 

chrisfont9

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Would they boo Manny/Ortiz/Devers etc. after if they hit 62 HR's?

I think not.
Eh... what if the Sox had a history of making but melting down in the playoffs? Gotta assume that's where the negativity comes from. And I doubt Sox fans would be any different. I went to a lot of games in the 80s and 90s, when we were not covering ourselves with collective good sportsmanship glory. It's been such an incredible run since then I can hardly remember those dark feelings anymore, so no, we wouldn't be quite on the same level as Yankee fans in your hypothetical. But it's not apples-to-apples.

The weird part for me is that I can't really even think of a reason why they keep failing in the postseason, except for maybe the pressure. When they've lost to the Sox, it's usually traceable to starting pitching, but the Yankees were third in ERA+ this year. You could point to Cole who has bad HR numbers and seems to be in the middle of their biggest failures, while the Sox usually have a SP who is doing the "get on my back" thing. But even that is pretty anecdotal. Clubhouse culture? I dunno, seems as good as any. Just plain bad small-sample/short-series luck? I'm not complaining, I'm just at a loss as to how we can point fingers and say "haha you guys can't do [blank] every year!"
 

jon abbey

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The weird part for me is that I can't really even think of a reason why they keep failing in the postseason, except for maybe the pressure. When they've lost to the Sox, it's usually traceable to starting pitching, but the Yankees were third in ERA+ this year. You could point to Cole who has bad HR numbers and seems to be in the middle of their biggest failures, while the Sox usually have a SP who is doing the "get on my back" thing. But even that is pretty anecdotal. Clubhouse culture? I dunno, seems as good as any. Just plain bad small-sample/short-series luck? I'm not complaining, I'm just at a loss as to how we can point fingers and say "haha you guys can't do [blank] every year!"
They had some bad luck this year with some crucial injuries (LeMahieu, a ton of relievers) including guys who they traded for largely for a potential ALCS meeting with HOU (Benintendi, Montas) but also I keep saying this, they make terrible decisions as to how to best utilize their own personnel seemingly every October. There was a very good article which I can't find again now that went through some of these, the Peraza situation I have talked about endlessly, but another is that they decided Taillon would be their bullpen stopper because of all the injuries, but they never gave him even one regular season relief appearance to test this (although again, Effross getting hurt within 24 hours of the ALDS starting really fucked up their plans). So instead they threw him into a life-or-death situation for his first relief appearance, and it went as badly as you'd expect.

So I don't really think the issue is Boone, because honestly I don't think he actually makes many decisions, I think he is a glorified press secretary. The issue also isn't the personnel Cashman brings in, he has done an overall fantastic job there. The issue is knowing what they have and best utilizing it, and that is the main thing NY needs to improve a lot if they are going to break through. HOU has more talent and they are also great at the deploying it properly part, NY falls flat here every October.
 

chrisfont9

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They had some bad luck this year with some crucial injuries (LeMahieu, a ton of relievers) including guys who they traded for largely for a potential ALCS meeting with HOU (Benintendi, Montas) but also I keep saying this, they make terrible decisions as to how to best utilize their own personnel seemingly every October. There was a very good article which I can't find again now that went through some of these, the Peraza situation I have talked about endlessly, but another is that they decided Taillon would be their bullpen stopper because of all the injuries, but they never gave him even one regular season relief appearance to test this (although again, Effross getting hurt within 24 hours of the ALDS starting really fucked up their plans). So instead they threw him into a life-or-death situation for his first relief appearance, and it went as badly as you'd expect.

So I don't really think the issue is Boone, because honestly I don't think he actually makes many decisions, I think he is a glorified press secretary. The issue also isn't the personnel Cashman brings in, he has done an overall fantastic job there. The issue is knowing what they have and best utilizing it, and that is the main thing NY needs to improve a lot if they are going to break through. HOU has more talent and they are also great at the deploying it properly part, NY falls flat here every October.
Thanks, that's what I was trying to get at. I don't follow the Yankees closely enough, but the Sox always seem to have a postseason plan that they execute, particularly around pitching, and it's been the difference in every year they've won. Most recently Cora fortified the bullpen by sprinkling in starters, which only worked because they got out of each series before the plan collapsed on them, but the point is that it worked. Maybe the Yankees are snake-bit, particularly this year with injuries and Houston being much better than even the last few seasons, but if they are ever going to get over the hump they might want to get a bit more creative? I dunno.
 

pinkhatfan

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Well played obscure hockey reference from the 70's. For the kids watching at home, Google 'Summit Series.'
Totally off topic, but there is a new book out about the Summit Series, if anyone wants to do a deep dive, "Ice War Diplomat: Hockey Meets Cold War Politics at the 1972 Summit Series" by Gary J. Smith.
 

Max Power

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She was there promoting some NFT thing and had her sign taken away almost immediately. I was sure she'd just leave, but she ended up staying the entire rain delayed game and sitting behind one of the worst people on Earth. She must have been a dedicated Yankees fan to go through all that.
Well, if she's a Yankees fan, she's probably pretty used to being around the worst people on Earth so Cruz was nothing.