Co-sign on all this. Changed our lives immeasurably.
View: https://twitter.com/gfstarr1/status/1472997656796569602?s=21
View: https://twitter.com/gfstarr1/status/1472997656796569602?s=21
Happy John Henry Day
- Thread starter bosockboy
- Start date
And to think. Frank McCourt could have won the bidding for the Sox.
and we all saw how disastrous that turned out for the dodgers.
Thankfully we don’t live in the darkest timeline where Charles Dolans high bid was accepted and James is now running the show.
Thank you for starting this thread. I saw that tweet this afternoon and was considering starting it myself, except a) I don't start threads and b) I was concerned that it would devolve into Festivus for the folks still not over Mookie. But the 20th anniversary of such a transformative event for this franchise absolutely needs to be recognized. My hazy (and probably incorrect) recollection was that the SoSH consensus at the time was neutral to slightly negative on Henry. I know I was fairly negative and suspicious of him based on his lack of ties to the region, his small stake in the MFYs (in hindsight, a ridiculous concern), and the less than stellar track record of the Marlins during his brief ownership of that franchise. I was worried that he was undercapitalized relative to the other rumored suitors Dolan and McCourt, and that he wouldn't invest adequately to compete in the AL East. Man, was I ever wrong.
The biggest thing, of course, was the development of a top notch organization which has delivered four championships. Yes, they have made mistakes, and yes they've had volatile finishes this past decade, but no team has had more success than the Red Sox this century. The bad old days of waiting for the other shoe to drop are gone forever; after 2004, I had zero doubt during the 2007/2013/2018 post-season runs that the Sox would ultimately prevail. I'll take Henry over any other owner in MLB, both for what has been accomplished to this point, and for how the franchise is set up going forward. (yes, I realize Rays and Dodgers fans would disagree on the latter point). The foresight and creativity involved in renovating Fenway into a viable 21st century ballpark were far beyond anything I could have imagined back in 2001. And lastly, and of equal importance, this ownership group's straightforward acknowledgement of the horrible racial history of this franchise and the need to make a clear, complete break with what was the most tangible remaining sign of that history deserves appreciation.
I hope John Henry remains owner of the Boston Red Sox for a very long time.
The biggest thing, of course, was the development of a top notch organization which has delivered four championships. Yes, they have made mistakes, and yes they've had volatile finishes this past decade, but no team has had more success than the Red Sox this century. The bad old days of waiting for the other shoe to drop are gone forever; after 2004, I had zero doubt during the 2007/2013/2018 post-season runs that the Sox would ultimately prevail. I'll take Henry over any other owner in MLB, both for what has been accomplished to this point, and for how the franchise is set up going forward. (yes, I realize Rays and Dodgers fans would disagree on the latter point). The foresight and creativity involved in renovating Fenway into a viable 21st century ballpark were far beyond anything I could have imagined back in 2001. And lastly, and of equal importance, this ownership group's straightforward acknowledgement of the horrible racial history of this franchise and the need to make a clear, complete break with what was the most tangible remaining sign of that history deserves appreciation.
I hope John Henry remains owner of the Boston Red Sox for a very long time.
I did PR for the Yawkey Trust during the sale process. It was one of the most interesting experiences of my life.
There was a lot to dislike about the Yawkey era, but John Harrington absolutely fulfilled his duty to maximize revenues to the Yawkey Trust, and getting a decent owner was gravy.
There was a lot to dislike about the Yawkey era, but John Harrington absolutely fulfilled his duty to maximize revenues to the Yawkey Trust, and getting a decent owner was gravy.
Oh, but we could have had a new stadium by the harbor...
Seriously, definitely the best possible outcome.
Seriously, definitely the best possible outcome.
Anyway. Whenever that time comes, that there is an actual need for a new stadium (hopefully not till I am dead) it’s going to be carbon copy of the current Fenway.
Remember CHB’s incessant whining that Henry’s winning bid was a “bag job”? The bidding process and insular nature of MLB’s approval process invariably makes it an inside game, but kudos to Henry for knowing the process and the people, and for playing it better (and for having the cash). Clearly CHB’s rants were fueled by where his sources were inside potential ownership groups. Clown show.
Thank you, Mr. Henry, for giving us joy.
Thank you, Mr. Henry, for giving us joy.
Which is a good thing, because he’s clearly too distracted by all of his dabbling in other sports ventures to help the Sox be competitive.
CHB wanted Frank McCourt to get the team because he was a local guy. A fraudulent, incompetent local guy, but a local guy nonetheless.
Thank you is right. Red Sox fans are entitled and now expect the team to compete for World Series titles regularly. That was absolutely unthinkable 20 years ago.
Thank you, Flags fly forever!
I think there is added value in seeing someone really smart & really iconoclastic (and really rich) demonstrate that proper analytics can lead to success. Its inspiring on a lot of levels, and I believe it has accelerated adoption in other applications and industries.
I think there is added value in seeing someone really smart & really iconoclastic (and really rich) demonstrate that proper analytics can lead to success. Its inspiring on a lot of levels, and I believe it has accelerated adoption in other applications and industries.
He wasn't a Joe O'Donnell guy?
Dolan got booted because it was supposed to be closed bid and he open bid in order to try to bully everyone else out. There was also the issue of his family owning the Indians, and the Yawkey perespective that that would delay the sale.
O'Donnell's bid simply wasn't big enough period. They were relying on local political and media muscle to push it to them at a cheaper price.
The Prentice bid was just fiction--"I don't have the money now, but give me six months!"
McCourt never made sense. The theory was he'd trade his parking lots to build a stadium for the team he would now own. Incomprehensible, much like his management of the Dodgers.
MLB rigged it to the extent that they orchestrated Henry coming in to the Werner-Otten deal, which made it the best offer, but the result was more $$$ for the Yawkey Foundation.
All of the other ownerships would have been bad except maybe O'Donnell, and I suspect O'Donnell would have been bad too.
My memory was that it was Will McDonough who almost single-handedly set fire to his reputation by being in the Joe O’Donnell tank because they were friends.
Edit: and here it is. I love this passage which is like straight out of Black Mass:
Edit: and here it is. I love this passage which is like straight out of Black Mass:
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My memory is that CHB was an O'Donnell guy. I remember listening to CHB and Barnicle on Barnicle's old radio show (don't judge, I had limited radio options in the building I was working in at the time), and they both seemed to be fully behind Joe O'Donnell and Steve Karp as the local guys.
If CHB was a McCourt guy, he certainly changed his tune once McCourt bought the Dodgers.
Say what you will about Will McDounough, he was loyal to his friends, no matter how many people they killed.
This was the previous decade.
High water mark for postseason glory fan-fantasies: October 11, 1999, winning an epic ALDS v. Cleveland. And now, the Luck of O'Leary is finally with us!
Hon.Mentions:
Sept. 29, 1998, going up 1-0 on Cleveland in the ALDS. In Pedro and Nomar we Trust. The Wild Card freaking rocks!
October 1, 1995, poised for post-season glory with the Amazing Wakefield, Vaughn and Company. Even if the Wild Card is a joke.
October 3, 1990, squeaked in to first the final week. Surely the Fat Man won't shit the bed yet again!
Low water marks: 8 of the 12 seasons.
This is 2002 onward. A yo-yo at times - I'll let others supply the highs, which are almost too numerous to list.
High water mark for postseason glory fan-fantasies: October 11, 1999, winning an epic ALDS v. Cleveland. And now, the Luck of O'Leary is finally with us!
Hon.Mentions:
Sept. 29, 1998, going up 1-0 on Cleveland in the ALDS. In Pedro and Nomar we Trust. The Wild Card freaking rocks!
October 1, 1995, poised for post-season glory with the Amazing Wakefield, Vaughn and Company. Even if the Wild Card is a joke.
October 3, 1990, squeaked in to first the final week. Surely the Fat Man won't shit the bed yet again!
Low water marks: 8 of the 12 seasons.
| Year | Team | AL East | G | W | L | T | WP | Pythag | Finish | Behind | Playoffs | R | RA | Attend | Bat.Age | Pitch.Age | #Bat | #Pitch | HighWAR | Manager |
| 2001 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 161 | 82 | 79 | 0 | .509 | .516 | 2nd of 5 | 13.5 | -- | 772 | 745 | 2,625,333 | 30.0 | 30.9 | 48 | 23 | M.Ramirez (5.2) | J.Williams (65-53) and J.Kerrigan (17-26) |
| 2000 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 85 | 77 | 0 | .525 | .528 | 2nd of 5 | 2.5 | -- | 792 | 745 | 2,585,895 | 29.3 | 30.2 | 52 | 24 | P.Martinez (11.7) | J.Williams (85-77) |
| 1999 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 94 | 68 | 0 | .580 | .569 | 2nd of 5 | 4.0 | Lost ALCS (4-1) | 836 | 718 | 2,446,162 | 28.9 | 30.1 | 48 | 25 | P.Martinez (9.8) | J.Williams (94-68) |
| 1998 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 92 | 70 | 0 | .568 | .583 | 2nd of 5 | 22.0 | Lost ALDS (3-1) | 876 | 729 | 2,314,704 | 28.8 | 29.5 | 47 | 23 | N.Garciaparra (7.1) | J.Williams (92-70) |
| 1997 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 78 | 84 | 0 | .481 | .497 | 4th of 5 | 20.0 | -- | 851 | 857 | 2,226,136 | 28.0 | 27.8 | 46 | 25 | N.Garciaparra (6.6) | J.Williams (78-84) |
| 1996 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 85 | 77 | 0 | .525 | .503 | 3rd of 5 | 7.0 | -- | 928 | 921 | 2,315,231 | 28.4 | 28.7 | 55 | 23 | R.Clemens (7.8) | K.Kennedy (85-77) |
| 1995 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 144 | 86 | 58 | 0 | .597 | .557 | 1st of 5 | -- | Lost ALDS (3-0) | 791 | 698 | 2,164,410 | 28.6 | 29.1 | 53 | 26 | J.Valentin (8.3) | K.Kennedy (86-58) |
| 1994 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 115 | 54 | 61 | 0 | .470 | .446 | 4th of 5 | 17.0 | -- | 552 | 621 | 1,775,818 | 29.8 | 30.2 | 45 | 23 | R.Clemens (6.0) | B.Hobson (54-61) |
| 1993 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 80 | 82 | 0 | .494 | .492 | 5th of 7 | 15.0 | -- | 686 | 698 | 2,422,021 | 29.6 | 30.6 | 39 | 16 | D.Darwin (5.7) | B.Hobson (80-82) |
| 1992 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 73 | 89 | 0 | .451 | .450 | 7th of 7 | 23.0 | -- | 599 | 669 | 2,468,574 | 28.7 | 31.5 | 38 | 16 | R.Clemens (8.7) | B.Hobson (73-89) |
| 1991 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 84 | 78 | 0 | .519 | .512 | 2nd of 7 | 7.0 | -- | 731 | 712 | 2,562,435 | 28.9 | 30.8 | 39 | 19 | R.Clemens (7.9) | J.Morgan (84-78) |
| 1990 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 88 | 74 | 0 | .543 | .523 | 1st of 7 | -- | Lost ALCS (4-0) | 699 | 664 | 2,528,986 | 28.9 | 30.6 | 43 | 20 | R.Clemens (10.4) | J.Morgan (88-74) |
This is 2002 onward. A yo-yo at times - I'll let others supply the highs, which are almost too numerous to list.
| Year | Team | AL East | G | W | L | T | WP | Pythag | Finish | Behind | Playoffs | R | RA | Attend | Bat.Age | Pitch.Age | #Bat | #Pitch | HighWAR | Manager |
| 2021 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 92 | 70 | 0 | .568 | .546 | 2nd of 5 | 8.0 | Lost ALCS (4-2) | 829 | 749 | 1,725,323 | 28.0 | 29.7 | 56 | 37 | X.Bogaerts (4.9) | A.Cora (92-70) |
| 2020 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 60 | 24 | 36 | 0 | .400 | .417 | 5th of 5 | 16.0 | -- | 292 | 351 | -- | 27.1 | 29.1 | 47 | 30 | A.Verdugo (2.1) | R.Roenicke (24-36) |
| 2019 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 84 | 78 | 0 | .519 | .539 | 3rd of 5 | 19.0 | -- | 901 | 828 | 2,915,502 | 27.3 | 29.0 | 47 | 28 | M.Betts (7.3) | A.Cora (84-78) |
| 2018 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 108 | 54 | 0 | .667 | .635 | 1st of 5 | -- | Won WS (4-1) | 876 | 647 | 2,895,575 | 27.7 | 28.9 | 44 | 23 | M.Betts (10.7) | A.Cora (108-54) |
| 2017 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 93 | 69 | 0 | .574 | .573 | 1st of 5 | -- | Lost ALDS (3-1) | 785 | 668 | 2,917,678 | 27.3 | 28.4 | 49 | 27 | M.Betts (6.4) | J.Farrell (93-69) |
| 2016 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 93 | 69 | 0 | .574 | .606 | 1st of 5 | -- | Lost ALDS (3-0) | 878 | 694 | 2,955,434 | 28.5 | 29.0 | 50 | 26 | M.Betts (9.5) | J.Farrell (93-69) |
| 2015 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 78 | 84 | 0 | .481 | .497 | 5th of 5 | 15.0 | -- | 748 | 753 | 2,880,694 | 28.3 | 28.6 | 51 | 26 | M.Betts (6.1) | J.Farrell (78-84) |
| 2014 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 71 | 91 | 0 | .438 | .445 | 5th of 5 | 25.0 | -- | 634 | 715 | 2,956,089 | 29.2 | 29.9 | 55 | 25 | D.Pedroia (3.9) | J.Farrell (71-91) |
| 2013 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 97 | 65 | 0 | .599 | .618 | 1st of 5 | -- | Won WS (4-2) | 853 | 656 | 2,833,333 | 29.6 | 30.2 | 48 | 26 | D.Pedroia (6.1) | J.Farrell (97-65) |
| 2012 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 69 | 93 | 0 | .426 | .457 | 5th of 5 | 26.0 | -- | 734 | 806 | 3,043,003 | 29.4 | 28.7 | 56 | 26 | D.Pedroia (5.1) | B.Valentine (69-93) |
| 2011 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 90 | 72 | 0 | .556 | .578 | 3rd of 5 | 7.0 | -- | 875 | 737 | 3,054,001 | 30.1 | 30.3 | 49 | 27 | J.Ellsbury (8.3) | T.Francona (90-72) |
| 2010 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 89 | 73 | 0 | .549 | .543 | 3rd of 5 | 7.0 | -- | 818 | 744 | 3,046,445 | 30.9 | 29.6 | 53 | 25 | A.Beltre (7.8) | T.Francona (89-73) |
| 2009 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 95 | 67 | 0 | .586 | .577 | 2nd of 5 | 8.0 | Lost ALDS (3-0) | 872 | 736 | 3,062,699 | 30.0 | 29.8 | 52 | 27 | K.Youkilis (6.6) | T.Francona (95-67) |
| 2008 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 95 | 67 | 0 | .586 | .589 | 2nd of 5 | 2.0 | Lost ALCS (4-3) | 845 | 694 | 3,048,250 | 29.8 | 29.2 | 47 | 23 | D.Pedroia (7.0) | T.Francona (95-67) |
| 2007 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 96 | 66 | 0 | .593 | .624 | 1st of 5 | -- | Won WS (4-0) | 867 | 657 | 2,970,755 | 30.1 | 31.1 | 40 | 20 | J.Beckett (6.5) | T.Francona (96-66) |
| 2006 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 86 | 76 | 0 | .531 | .497 | 3rd of 5 | 11.0 | -- | 820 | 825 | 2,930,588 | 30.5 | 31.1 | 53 | 28 | D.Ortiz (5.8) | T.Francona (86-76) |
| 2005 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 95 | 67 | 0 | .586 | .556 | 2nd of 5 | -- | Lost ALDS (3-0) | 910 | 805 | 2,847,888 | 31.3 | 33.6 | 52 | 26 | D.Ortiz (5.2) | T.Francona (95-67) |
| 2004 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 98 | 64 | 0 | .605 | .596 | 2nd of 5 | 3.0 | Won WS (4-0) | 949 | 768 | 2,837,294 | 30.4 | 32.5 | 50 | 26 | C.Schilling (7.7) | T.Francona (98-64) |
| 2003 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 95 | 67 | 0 | .586 | .578 | 2nd of 5 | 6.0 | Lost ALCS (4-3) | 961 | 809 | 2,724,165 | 29.7 | 31.2 | 47 | 26 | P.Martinez (8.0) | G.Little (95-67) |
| 2002 | Boston Red Sox | AL East | 162 | 93 | 69 | 0 | .574 | .615 | 2nd of 5 | 10.5 | -- | 859 | 665 | 2,650,862 | 29.9 | 31.1 | 39 | 18 | D.Lowe (7.3) | G.Little (93-69) |
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Before this sale, if I was to check off every characteristic and goal that I would have wanted from an owner or ownership group, what was actually achieved far surpasses that. Four World Series Championships in fifteen years... beyond my wildest dreams.
There are so many highs, as RR notes, but there is one that stands out to me. In 4 World Series matchups, with really 4 different Red Sox teams (and three different managers), they are 16-3 against presumably the best the NL had to offer. That is just dominance.
Happy that the ownership is here. For the most part their stewardship has been good, not perfect. Lots of highs, some lows. B/B+
I am tired of fighting.
Our chiefs are killed.
Red Averages is dead.
Yelling at Clouds is dead.
Smiling Joe Hesketh is dead.
It is cold and we have no blankets.
The lurkers are freezing to death.
My people, some of them, have run away .
No one knows where they are.
Perhaps they are watching Mookie highlights.
I want to have time to look for them and see how many of them I can find.
Maybe I shall find them among the dead.
Hear me, SoSH, I am tired.
My heart is sad and sick.
From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.
Tough Grader!
World Series Championships, Present back to 2003:
FOUR: Boston (18, 13, 07, 04) and nicely spaced I might add.
THREE: SF (14, 12, 10)
TWO: STL (11, 06)
ONE: ATL (21), LAD (20), WSH (19), HOU (17*), CHC (16), KC (15), NYY (09), PHI (08), CHW (05), FLA (03)
FFF my man.
Yes, but those last place finishes. The burden the fans have to bear for those. [/kidding]
Thanks, indeed, for 20 years with some exquisite memories.
TBH, while Henry is a very good owner, he’s not the best owner in his own state. Bob Kraft is better.
Unless you take into account politics and sex work.
Then Heny is better... as best we know.
The sex work thing is an embarrassment no doubt. And honestly I try to keep the politics out of it. It’s pretty much a given that I’m not going to align with the political bents of a multi millionaire or billionaire.
Hell, Belichick and Brady would be in this bucket too. As would most of the athletes we like.
Dan Topping and Del Webb are just an A- because the Yanks didn’t win 112 games in 1954 and a bad hop hit Tony Kubek in the throat in 1960.
You forgot the NONE category: TB, TOR, BAL, CLE, DET, MN, SEA, OLK, TX, MIL, NYM, CIN, PIT, SDP, COL, AZ
(And the mystery of it all is that some of those teams have magnificent farm systems. Just magnificent I tell you. It's a puzzler.)
I remember Ted Sarandis on EEI virtually every night after 04 sharing his belief that if the Sox hadn’t won then John Henry would have traded ownerships with McCourt. His reasoning was a doozy too: because McCourt was local and he wanted the Sox.
https://todayincthistory.com/2019/04/30/april-30-new-england-patriots-back-out-of-hartford/
Yeah, he *really* cares about Massachusetts...
Let us also compare this to other ownership teams worldwide, which would include shady Putin connected oligarchs, oppressive autocratic governments (through proxy organizations), and flat out racists. Compared to those guys, I don't see getting a rub and tug from an legal adult non-trafficked immigrant, and donating to a Republican candidate in an election year to be much of anything.
What do you really want from an owner? For me it would be deep pockets and the willingness to invest in the team, both in terms of players and staff, but also team facilities, and the ballpark/stadium. Kraft and Henry definitely meet those criteria. Then they would be invested enough in the success of the team to make changes as needed, but not involved to the level of micromanaging instead of letting the professionals they hired handle things. Kraft had to find that fan balance at first, but he did relatively quickly, and Henry seems to have had a good handle on that all through his ownership. And for the final criteria I'd bring in the world outside of sports, and make sure there isn't anything there that would make me regret rooting for a team. There aren't going to be too many people who meet that first criteria and want to own a sports team that made their cash running a non-profit charity rescuing orphaned kittens. A paper company and commodity trading maybe don't do all that much for world peace, but they're on the more benign side of ways to make billions. And Kraft and Henry have never been caught on tape by girlfriends dropping the N word. They mostly hang out in the background. Henry does this much better than Kraft, who clearly likes a bit of the spotlight. I think overall Henry is my ideal of an owner. Loaded, nothing sketchy in his background, properly invested, appropriate level of managerial oversight, and otherwise invisible.
One of the first rules of negotiating is to always be prepared to walk away. He came back to Foxboro because he showed a willingness to walk away from MA.
His name is mud in Connecticut now, though.
I was working in a bookstore in downtown Boston in January that year and had a group of very well dressed men show up at closing time. I recognized John Henry and kept register open after we closed the doors. It was JH, Lucchino, Werner, a guy I don't remember and a security guy.
They headed to the sports section and started pulling dozens of books on the Sox. Lucchino grabbed the CHB Curse book and then laughed at my expression. He said," we've all been warned about this guy". After buying $400 worth of books on the Red Sox they asked for a good place to eat downtown, I sent them to the Four Seasons.
The only question of mine they fully answered was that they intended to renovate and maintain Fenway.
After 2004 we received a phone order for 40 copies each of the 10-12 Red Sox swag books/magazines that came out after the win. A minion showed up with a van and a Fenway group credit card. I guess they remembered that we had a good selection of Red Sox books.
They headed to the sports section and started pulling dozens of books on the Sox. Lucchino grabbed the CHB Curse book and then laughed at my expression. He said," we've all been warned about this guy". After buying $400 worth of books on the Red Sox they asked for a good place to eat downtown, I sent them to the Four Seasons.
The only question of mine they fully answered was that they intended to renovate and maintain Fenway.
After 2004 we received a phone order for 40 copies each of the 10-12 Red Sox swag books/magazines that came out after the win. A minion showed up with a van and a Fenway group credit card. I guess they remembered that we had a good selection of Red Sox books.