Hanley Ramirez hits the ball extremely hard

AbbyNoho · Apr 30, 2015

pantsparty said:
Related: is there a correlation between having your helmet fall off and hitting the ball hard?

Well, his helmet falls off because he's got too much hair under there. There is historic connection between excess hair and increased power with that guy who played for the Tribe a ways back.

Curtis Pride · Apr 30, 2015

So you're saying that Hanley is Samson?

Lose Remerswaal · Apr 30, 2015

I thought he was talking about Manny, but he didn't grow his hair long until he came to the Sox

joe dokes · Apr 30, 2015

pantsparty said:
According to this year's PitchFX data, which now includes batted ball velocity, Hanley Ramirez destroys baseballs. He also has a .346 ISO, which is currently 4th best in baseball.

He reminds me of Sheffield. There was just something about the way he stood in and swung the bat, the plate coverage and the ferocity of his approach to at bats that made me breathe a sigh of relief when he made an out.

He has 24 hits. 14 singles and 10HRs.

ivanvamp · Apr 30, 2015

I'm totally with you on Sheffield. I thought he was going to hit a rocket every single time he came up against the Sox.

Ferm Sheller · Apr 30, 2015

Dave Winfield instilled the same fear. Man, was he born to crush baseballs.

rodderick · Apr 30, 2015

For some reason I knew I wouldn't have to scroll down to find Mookie Betts' name on that list of highest velocity off the bat.

glennhoffmania · Apr 30, 2015

Sheffield and Canseco had the fastest bats I've ever seen in person. It was insane how quickly they could get their hands around. Hanley may hit the ball as hard as them but his swing isn't as quick based on what I've seen. He's still pretty impressive when he connects though.

The helmet thing is driving me nuts. Every fucking time it flies off. Get him a chin strap.

uncannymanny · Apr 30, 2015

Saw on the broadcast last night, Hanley is tied for most HR before May in team history with 10.

drbretto · Apr 30, 2015

Eyeball test warning.

This does NOT look like just a burst of power. This genuinely looks like what we are going to get from him. He is so at ease at the plate and that power comes off as so effortless and every at bat is consistent. This dude's hitting 45 this year.

bankshot1 · Apr 30, 2015

Andrew said:
Well, his helmet falls off because he's got too much hair under there. There is historic connection between excess hair and increased power with that guy who played for the Tribe a ways back.

Oscar Gamble?

Like others, I see the Sheffy comp.
Wicked swing, screaming line-drives.

reggiecleveland · Apr 30, 2015

Ferm Sheller said:
Dave Winfield instilled the same fear. Man, was he born to crush baseballs.

Willie Mo Pena's swing reminded me of Winfield, except for the whole make contact with the ball thing.

TigerBlood · Apr 30, 2015

Semi-related - despite all of Ramirez's hard contact, leading the league in HR he has a mere .3 fWAR and .2 bWAR.

Man I hope he learns to play left a little better.

ivanvamp · Apr 30, 2015

TigerBlood said:
Semi-related - despite all of Ramirez's hard contact, leading the league in HR he has a mere .3 fWAR and .2 bWAR.

Man I hope he learns to play left a little better.

To this point:

Hanley: 16 r, 10 hr, 22 rbi, .293/.341/.659/.999, 172 ops+, 0.2 bWAR
Mookie: 13 r, 2 hr, 13 rbi, .230/.313/.345/.658, 85 ops+, 0.8 bWAR

Twice the ops+, 5x the homers, huge gap in ops, yet a quarter of the bWAR, compared to Mookie.

foulkehampshire · Apr 30, 2015

Because defensive metrics for a converted SS/3B playing in the outfield for the first time ever over his first month are ever meaningful.

ivanvamp · Apr 30, 2015

foulkehampshire said:
Because defensive metrics for a converted SS/3B playing in the outfield for the first time ever over his first month are ever meaningful.

I haven't watched enough games to answer this question, but I'll ask it anyway. How has Hanley looked in the outfield to you?

Devizier · Apr 30, 2015

More interesting to me is that the offensive component of his WAR is devalued, probably due to the "timeliness" or lack thereof of his performance.

drbretto · Apr 30, 2015

ivanvamp said:
I haven't watched enough games to answer this question, but I'll ask it anyway. How has Hanley looked in the outfield to you?

Like he's playing in the outfield for the first time ever. He actually seems like he's already getting a little more comfortable, but by the end of the season, the defensive metrics for April will have no predictive value whatsoever.

Red(s)HawksFan · Apr 30, 2015

ivanvamp said:
I haven't watched enough games to answer this question, but I'll ask it anyway. How has Hanley looked in the outfield to you?

I know you're asking someone else, but he's looked like a guy who is playing the outfield for the first time and hasn't picked up on all the nuances yet.

But I think foulkehampshire's point was that Hanley's WAR numbers to date have been dragged down by defensive metrics that suffer from small sample size issues on top of Hanley's adjustment to a new position,

ivanvamp · Apr 30, 2015

Ok. I assumed his WAR numbers have been dragged down from him being a pretty bad outfielder.

He's a good athlete and I expect him to improve because, as you guys have pointed out, he's new to the position. But it doesn't change how bad he's been. The metrics back up the comments I see in SOSH game threads.

smastroyin · Apr 30, 2015

Devizier said:
More interesting to me is that the offensive component of his WAR is devalued, probably due to the "timeliness" or lack thereof of his performance.

WAR calculations don't care about this. But even though it is "offense only" it includes positional adjustment. Also, they surmise he is pretty bad at baserunning so far.

foulkehampshire · Apr 30, 2015

smastroyin said:
Also, they surmise he is pretty bad at baserunning so far.

That is something I don't see improving much. Age and added bulk has really taken away the speed facet of his game.

Snodgrass'Muff · Apr 30, 2015

foulkehampshire said:
Because defensive metrics for a converted SS/3B playing in the outfield for the first time ever over his first month are ever meaningful.

One month of WAR is virtually meaningless whether the player is recently converted or has been at the position for his entire career.

Mookie might be having a better season overall to this point (I highly doubt it, though), but WAR isn't sufficient evidence for making that case.

bellowthecat · Apr 30, 2015

Devizier said:
More interesting to me is that the offensive component of his WAR is devalued, probably due to the "timeliness" or lack thereof of his performance.

I believe WAR is context neutral except for relief pitchers, who get half credit for the leverage they're in. WAR sees a home run the same whether it happens in a blow out or with the game on the line.

Hanley has been better than expected at the plate, but just as bad as I feared he would be in the outfield. IMO he has well earned that harsh defensive rating thus far. I anticipate that he will improve out there and at season's end he'll be right around 2.5-3.5 WAR. He'll still probably be the worst LF in the game, but I don't think he's going to be Manny bad all year.

Al Zarilla · Apr 30, 2015

bellowthecat said:
I believe WAR is context neutral except for relief pitchers, who get half credit for the leverage they're in. WAR sees a home run the same whether it happens in a blow out or with the game on the line.

Hanley has been better than expected at the plate, but just as bad as I feared he would be in the outfield. IMO he has well earned that harsh defensive rating thus far. I anticipate that he will improve out there and at season's end he'll be right around 2.5-3.5 WAR. He'll still probably be the worst LF in the game, but I don't think he's going to be Manny bad all year.

I disagree. Manny was an outfielder all his career. No matter how bad a guy is, over some years, he usually gets decent at at least some aspects of his position. In Manny's case, playing the wall and maybe using half decent routes to the ball and getting it back in were things he improved on. Ted Williams was kind of the same. Hanley might show some improvement in his left field play, but I wouldn't hold my breath this year. Carl Crawford didn't get it in his one year plus here (the wall and routes). Hanley will be bad all year, IMO. Hopefully, he more than makes up for it by hitting like a madman all year.

NYCSox · Apr 30, 2015

Odd stat of the day - 10 XBHs this season, all HRs.

He's gone Dave Kingman.

OfTheCarmen · Apr 30, 2015

You never go full Dave Kingman...

JBJ_HOF · Apr 30, 2015

Jeff Sullivan wrote today about how he thought there were Statcast errors with batted ball velocity, using Hanley as his talking point. Pretty interesting, but even more so was Alan Nathan showing up in the comments. Good read. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/hanley-ramirez-and-batted-ball-data/

Ferm Sheller · Apr 30, 2015

reggiecleveland said:
Willie Mo Pena's swing reminded me of Winfield, except for the whole make contact with the ball thing.

I just watched the two on youtube and you're spot on. Good call.

Rough Carrigan · Apr 30, 2015

On MLB network at around 6 p.m. they showed an amazing stat. Hanley Ramirez has hit 22 balls such that they came off his bat at 105 mph or more so far this year. No other player in MLB has more than 12.

Sandy Leon Trotsky · Apr 30, 2015

Doesn't Fenway's LF always come out a bit screwy on defensive metrics? I seriously can't trust that Mookie has been overall more valuable by THAT much (if at all). Seriously... so if Mookie was hitting .100 OPS points higher he would be what 10 times more valuable according to WAR? I just can't....

effectivelywild · Apr 30, 2015

Trotsky said:
Doesn't Fenway's LF always come out a bit screwy on defensive metrics? I seriously can't trust that Mookie has been overall more valuable by THAT much (if at all). Seriously... so if Mookie was hitting .100 OPS points higher he would be what 10 times more valuable according to WAR? I just can't....

I also recall this being an issue when we were discussing Manny's defensive liabilities. Because Fenway's LF dimensions are so abnormal, it could really throw off a lot of the defensive metrics (UZR) and debit a player way more than he deserves. I'm not saying that Ramirez 2.0 isn't a bad outfielder, just that WAR calculations could get skewed by the way LF gets treated by defensive metrics. And that's, you know, aside from the usual SSS caveat.

mt8thsw9th · May 1, 2015

effectivelywild said:
I also recall this being an issue when we were discussing Manny's defensive liabilities. Because Fenway's LF dimensions are so abnormal, it could really throw off a lot of the defensive metrics (UZR) and debit a player way more than he deserves.

Have there been actual studies that show this is true, or was that just the excuse for Manny's defense grading out so poorly (which passed the eye test for quite a few)? His UZR for his first few seasons were similar to the ratings in Cleveland, however they got worse as he got even less mobile. I am not sure if the dimensions in LF at Fenway changed which caused the difference/decline.

Are there other LFs that have seen their UZR plunge due to Fenway? Have there been efforts to adjust how they measure UZR at Fenway, and will they adjust the historical data?

JBJ_HOF · May 1, 2015

mt8thsw9th said:
Are there other LFs that have seen their UZR plunge due to Fenway? Have there been efforts to adjust how they measure UZR at Fenway, and will they adjust the historical data?

Code:

Season	Team	Pos	UZR/150
2008	Rays	LF	23.5
2009	Rays	LF	18.9
2010	Rays	LF	20.3
2011	Red Sox	LF      -4.6
2012	Red Sox	LF     -10.1
2013	Dodgers	LF	14.2

cahlton · May 1, 2015

Ben Lindbergh published an interesting piece on Grantland the other day called "How Pitch Location Helps Reveal Batter Breakouts." It's all about how pitchers adjust from season to season in the way they approach specific hitters. You won't be surprised to know that, as Lindbergh shows, ISO is inversely proportional to called-strike probability.

There's lots of interesting data in the piece (for instance, Pablo Sandoval consistently ranks among the leaders in lowest CS%; this probably has less to do with ISO and more do with selectivity), but one striking (no pun intended) finding is that Hanley Ramirez ranks 8th in baseball among called-strike-probability *risers.* This is a list, presumably, of the least-feared hitters in the game (Ryan Howard is at the top of it), yet Hanley is seeing 4.9% more pitches in the zone than he did last year. Maybe this has to do with pitchers' unfamiliarity with him, since he's never played a full season in the AL, but one has to assume that pitchers will adjust. The question then becomes what kind of effect on his numbers this will have.

Anyway, here's the story:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/mlb-pitch-location-batter-breakouts-regressions/

The Gray Eagle · May 1, 2015

mt8thsw9th said:
Are there other LFs that have seen their UZR plunge due to Fenway? Have there been efforts to adjust how they measure UZR at Fenway, and will they adjust the historical data?

I looked into this a couple years ago and found that Manny's numbers got better when he went from Boston to LA, even though he was older and slower, and that Jason Bay had better numbers before and after Boston, and that as shown above, Crawford had much better numbers before and after Boston.

And this is after UZR made adjustments to try to better account for Fenway's LF dimensions.

wiffleballhero · May 1, 2015

glennhoffmania said:
Sheffield and Canseco had the fastest bats I've ever seen in person. It was insane how quickly they could get their hands around. Hanley may hit the ball as hard as them but his swing isn't as quick based on what I've seen. He's still pretty impressive when he connects though.

The helmet thing is driving me nuts. Every fucking time it flies off. Get him a chin strap.

Barry Bonds.
Those were some fast hands.

Roid pattern?

luckysox · May 1, 2015

I've heard many people be animatedly upset about his helmet, and for the life of me, I'm not sure why it bothers anyone. It isn't impeding him. Why do we care? Also, why the backhanded steroid accusation?

Bigpupp · May 1, 2015

luckysox said:
I've heard many people be animatedly upset about his helmet, and for the life of me, I'm not sure why it bothers anyone. It isn't impeding him. Why do we care? Also, why the backhanded steroid accusation?

I hated when JBJ couldn't keep his helmet on last year, but I think that was more because I hated JBJ anytime he was wearing a helmet instead of a glove.

charlieoscar · May 4, 2015

NYCSox said:
Odd stat of the day - 10 XBHs this season, all HRs.

He's gone Dave Kingman.

Actually, Mark McGwire may have been even more noted for this. However, it (more HR than 2B) has happened many times and with some pretty good batters: Babe Ruth, Hank Greenberg, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, Hank Aaron, to name a few.

AB in DC · May 4, 2015

Change the "b" to a "w" in the thread title, and you've still got an accurate statement.

Hanley Ramirez hits the ball extremely hard

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