Hall of Fame balloting

DJnVa · Nov 26, 2013

Glavine
Raines
Kent
Maddux
E. Martinez
Piazza
Schilling
Thomas

Yaz4Ever · Nov 26, 2013

Bagwell
Biggio
Maddux
Martinez
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Thomas

SirPsychoSquints · Nov 26, 2013

Bagwell
~~Biggio~~
Bonds
Clemens
Glavine
~~Kent~~
Maddux
Edgar
McGwire
~~Mussina~~
~~Palmeiro~~
Piazza
Raines
~~Schilling~~
~~Sosa~~
Thomas
~~Trammell~~

John Marzano Olympic Hero · Nov 26, 2013

There are 8 former Red Sox on the ballot (9, if you count Bagwell among them)
Sean Casey
Roger Clemens
Eric Gagne
Todd Jones
Hideo Nomo
Curt Schilling
Lee Smith
Mike Timlin

Don't forget the Informer, JT Snow.

My ballot is:

Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Tom Glavine
Greg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Frank Thomas

Edit: as much as I hate him, if I vote for Bonds, I have to vote for Clemens too. That means Bagwell is off the ballot. It was tough last two votes between Bagwell, Schilling and Raines.

Doug Beerabelli · Nov 26, 2013

Bagwell
Biggio
Glavine
Kent
Maddux
Mussina
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Thomas

Spacemans Bong · Nov 26, 2013

There are almost twice as many qualified people as ballot spaces. This is ridiculous.

scotian1 · Nov 26, 2013

My ballot would read:
Tim Raines, Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, Jeff Bagwell, Jack Morris, Lee Smith, Craig Biggio and Edgar Martinez. I will add Greg Maddux as well.

The Last DiMaggio · Nov 26, 2013

Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine

gtg807y · Nov 26, 2013

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Tom Glavine
Greg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Frank Thomas
Roger Clemens
Barry Bonds

F--k Jack Morris

Merkle's Boner · Nov 26, 2013

Maddux
Bonds
Clemens
Piazza
Thomas
Raines
Glavine
Bagwell
Biggio
Sosa

SemperFidelisSox · Nov 26, 2013

Edgar Martinez only got 35% of the vote last year. He isn't making the jump to 75 in one year.

John Marzano Olympic Hero · Nov 26, 2013

F--k Jack Morris

Okay. Who will you marry and kill?

Kliq · Nov 26, 2013

No Brainers:
-Maddux
-Biggio
-Bagwell
-Thomas
-Glavine

Not Automatic but still worthy:
-Schilling
-Martinez
-Piazza

Steroids, but too brilliant to ignore:
- Bonds
-Clemens

Tough Luck:
- Raines
- Morris
-Mussina
- Alou (personal favorite, statistically he probably does not belong)

RG33 · Nov 26, 2013

Frank Thomas
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Tom Glavine
Greg Maddux
Rock Raines
Edgar Martinez
Jeff Bagwell

I am fine with known/assumed steroids guys not getting in, but I think Clemens and Bonds deserve entry on their pre-steroids careers alone. And I hate them both tremendously for many reasons.

EDIT: I added Bagwell after doing a little research. I always thought he was pretty clearly linked to steroids. This article did enough to convince me otherwise. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof11/columns/story?id=5963276

gtg807y · Nov 26, 2013

John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
Okay. Who will you marry and kill?

Marry Ron Gant. Kill Lonnie Smith before he gets to me first.

DJnVa · Nov 26, 2013

Are we predicting or saying we think should get in?

Plympton91 · Nov 26, 2013

RGREELEY33 said:
I am fine with known/assumed steroids guys not getting in, but I think Clemens and Bonds deserve entry on their pre-steroids careers alone. And I hate them both tremendously for many reasons.

Why do you assume there was a pre-steriod career for them? Steriods were available in the late 1980s.

I am unwilling to assume that any top player of the past 30 years was "clean" and so here's how I'd put together my ballot:

Ranking the Steriod era first basemen and DH's and pick the top two (arbitrary number for being a worthy HOF vote in a crowded year):

Thomas and Bagwell get in, E. Martinez, McGriff, McGwire, and Palmiero are out for now.

Ranking the Steroid era starting pitchers and only the top two get in

Maddux and Clemens are in, Glavine and Schilling are out for now

Piazza
Biggio
Bonds
Lee Smith
Trammell
Glavine -- Had to put him back after considering the relative merits of Glavine vs. the "just missed" group and vs. the first excluded 1B/DH, Edgar Martinez.

Just missed

Kent
Raines
Larry Walker

getfoul · Nov 26, 2013

Not only will it be interesting to see who gets in, but who gets knocked off the ballot with less than 5% of the vote.

Palmeiro will be gone. Sosa and McGwire might. McGriff could too, which would be unfortunate, but understandable.

But what about a guy like Jeff Kent? He should probably be in the Hall someday, but what if over 95% of the voters don't want to vote for him right now just because they can't go over 10 players?

DeltaForce · Nov 26, 2013

Wow, this is a loaded candidate list.

My ballot would be:

Bonds
Maddux
Clemens
Thomas
Biggio
Glavine
Raines
Bagwell
Piazza
Trammell

If it weren't for space, I'd probably vote for Schilling, McGwire, Sosa, and E. Martinez, and would think seriously about Palmeiro and Kent.

All of the above are better than Jack Morris.

edit: as for who will actually get in this year, I imagine it will be Maddux, Glavine, Thomas, and Biggio. Voters seem to love Jack Morris, and he's in his final year, but I think the contrast between him and, say, Maddux will be so stark that it will keep that wavering group of voters from putting him over the top.

TeddysBonefish · Nov 26, 2013

Maddux
Piazza
Bonds
Clemens
Glavine
Martinez
Biggio
Thomas
Kent
Raines

E5 Yaz · Nov 26, 2013

The question is, how close does Maddux get to Seaver and Ryan in percentage

Yelling At Clouds · Nov 26, 2013

I wonder if, with such a crowded ballot, some people might leave guys like Glavine or Maddux off, figuring that they'll make it in regardless, and then subsequently use those open spots for guys like Mussina or Kent who might fall off the ballot entirely otherwise.

SemperFidelisSox · Nov 26, 2013

This is Jack Morris final year on the ballot. Coming off his 67% last year, he will get the final sympathy votes needed to get in. They should put his Hall of Fame plaque with Bert Blylevens next to the restrooms.

ItOnceWasMyLife · Nov 26, 2013

Wouldn't be surprised if Morris gets drowned out by everyone else. Wouldn't be disappointed in that either.

My hypo-ballot:

Maddux (with an assist to every umpire that ever worked with him)
Martinez
Bagwell
Biggio
Kent
McGriff
Raines
Thomas
Schilling

Papo The Snow Tiger · Nov 26, 2013

Bagwell
Glavine
Maddux
Raines
Schilling
Smith

Comfortably Lomb · Nov 26, 2013

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Glavine
Maddux
Martinez
McGwire
Piazza
Thomas

I don't get the Jack Morris love.

Cumberland Blues · Nov 26, 2013

Yeah, this ballot is ridiculous. Last year's was the best ballot ever and since the dummies at the BBWAA didn't let any of 'em in we get to add Maddux, Glavine, Kent, Mussina, Sosa & Thomas.

Since you can only pick ten, I'd go with:
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Tom Glavine
Greg Maddux
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
Frank Thomas

I think these guys belong too:
Jeff Kent
Edgar Martinez
Tim Raines

And I'm a "big hall" guy, so I would not begrudge anyone voting for any of these guys:
Fred McGriff
Mike Mussina
Rafael Palmeiro
Lee Smith
Sammy Sosa
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

hbk72777 · Nov 26, 2013

There are more players on that list that deserve to be in than don't..

Let the roiders in. When MLB returns all of the boon money they made from the Home Run chases of the late 90's, then they can stop acting pious.

Sosa,McGuire and Bonds resurrected baseball. When I was in High School, Basketball and Hockey had overtaken it, from kid's playing it to just conversations around the lunch table. I remember in 92-93, not one kid brought up the World Series, that never happened.Having a Canadian team win it didn't help either. It wasn't until the Home Run chase that the media really went back to paying attention to it.

Hell, roids were on both sides of the plate, Clemens pitching to Bonds was even ground as far as I'm concerned

On a side note, like every other year, Bob Costas will get his ballot returned ,with the message that he's not eligible to vote, and "Mickey Mantle is already in".

amfox1 · Nov 26, 2013

My ballot:

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds (in for pre-steroids era)
Roger Clemens (in for pre-steroids era)
Tom Glavine
Greg Maddux
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Frank Thomas

twothousandone · Nov 26, 2013

Was Jack Morris a better pitcher than Luis Tiant? If not, he clearly doesn't get in. And there's no shame in being the second best pitcher not in the Hall.

terrisus · Nov 26, 2013

John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
Okay. Who will you marry and kill?

Kill Clemens.

So, someone else gets to pick the Marry part.

terrisus · Nov 26, 2013

Oh, and my ballot

Bagwell
Biggio
Glavine
Kent
Maddux
Martinez
Piazza
Schilling
Sosa
Thomas

With regards to Bonds and Clemens, they would be on there if I had 12 votes, but, since there are only 10 votes, I left them off so I could vote for other players, since I'm sure Bonds and Clemens will still be there next year, and I could vote for them one of those years. They'll both get in eventually.

Mighty Joe Young · Nov 26, 2013

My ballot:

Bagwell **
Biggio *
Glavine *
Maddox*
Kent ***
Martinez **
Piazza**
Raines ***
Trammel ***
Thomas *

A case can be made for Mussina and Schilling .and maybe McGriff.. But not by me. Maybe next year.

The steroid boys can wait to be inducted posthumously. Unlike Rose who will never , ever, in a million years be inducted.

* designates who I think will get in this year
** designates who I think will get in eventually
*** designates who I think Should get in but won't ever be elected

Speaking of which .. When is the veterans committee going to induct Dwight Evans .. Does it even exist anymore?

RG33 · Nov 27, 2013

Plympton91 said:
Why do you assume there was a pre-steriod career for them? Steriods were available in the late 1980s.r

Well, its been fairly widely reported that Bonds started juicing after the 1998 season when jealousy of McGwire & Sosa drove him to satiate his massive ego. 2000-2004 then saw a pretty dramatic increase in slugging/OPS to otherworldly numbers. And with Clemens, we all know the "twilight" story. You could also look at body changes, etc. That's why I assume. I may be wrong. But, that's why.

Average Reds · Nov 27, 2013

This is a difficult ballot, as the talent coming out this year will squeeze some candidates.

My ballot, irrespective of who I think will get in:

Bagwell
Bonds
Clemens
Glavine
Maddux
Mussina
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Thomas

Have some sympathy for Biggio and Kent, but no room. Have no sympathy for Morris, who is a good candidate for the Hall of very good. Have none for Sosa either, as I think he's a steroid creation.

Spacemans Bong · Nov 27, 2013

Sosa has a .344 career OBP. I don't care about steroids and I'm still not sure that makes him a Hall of Famer.

Average Reds · Nov 27, 2013

If PEDs were my deciding factor, I wouldn't have both Bonds and Clemens on my list.

When I call Sosa a "steroid creation" I'm making the same point you are, but coming at it in a different way. With the exception of his power, Sosa's stats are decidedly mediocre. And since I believe his power stats are an artificial creation, I'm not impressed.

getfoul · Nov 27, 2013

Average Reds said:
If PEDs were my deciding factor, I wouldn't have both Bonds and Clemens on my list.

When I call Sosa a "steroid creation" I'm making the same point you are, but coming at it in a different way. With the exception of his power, Sosa's stats are decidedly mediocre. And since I believe his power stats are an artificial creation, I'm not impressed.

That's why I can't understand why anyone would think Sosa or McGwire belong in. Intellectually, I can look at Barry Bonds career and begrudgingly put him in. He was a great player before he juiced his brains out.

McGwire and Sosa were PED creations. But I'm not worried--good chance they fall off the ballot in the next couple years.

threecy · Nov 27, 2013

Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza (perhaps Clemens can throw something at him at the ceremony)
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Curt Schilling
Tom Glavine
Greg Maddux
Edgar Martinez (really a vote for Papi)
Frank Thomas
Larry Walker

OttoC · Nov 27, 2013

Deadspin claims to have purchased the vote of a BBWAA member in the upcoming Hall of Fame election.

"Our idea was to make a mockery and farce of the increasingly solemn and absurd election process, and to take some power from the duly appointed custodians of the game's history and turn it over to the public," Deadspin's Tim Marchman wrote.

"Deadspin says it will poll its readers and the vote-seller has agreed to fill out the ballot according to the poll results. The voter will be revealed after the vote has been cast"

http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/thebuzz/2013/11/deadspin_claims_it_has_bought_a_baseball_hall_of_fame_vote.html

timlinin8th · Nov 27, 2013

OttoC said:
"Our idea was to make a mockery and farce of the increasingly solemn and absurd election process, and to take some power from the duly appointed custodians of the game's history and turn it over to the public," Deadspin's Tim Marchman wrote.

I don't really see why this makes a "mockery" of the election process... Its probably a slap in the face to the holier-than-thou BBWAA writers that think their readers are idiots, but thats about it. With today's interactive media model, a smart writer would start doing columns on his Hall vote early, invite comments and suggestions, while still maintaining that they have the final say on the vote. I would read that guy.

E5 Yaz · Nov 27, 2013

jaysonst Jayson Stark
Here's his "official Todd Jones release: "The HOF is for greatness...No one w the nickname `Roller Coaster' should ever be considered..."

keyalyn · Nov 28, 2013

Why do so many people here have Glavine on their ballots over Mussina? Glavine pitched longer (though the first and last few year of his career were below league average), but Mussina was a superior pitcher in virtually every metric. Glavine will end up in the hall before Mussina due to the magic 300 wins total, but what argument is there for Glavine over Mussina that is not centered around wins?

Leather · Nov 28, 2013

Two Cy Young's and a 1,000 more quality innings.

Leather · Nov 28, 2013

Expanding further: it's closer, upon inspection, than I first thought. But there is something to be said for having signature seasons, which in Glavines case are represented by his CY awards.

getfoul · Nov 28, 2013

keyalyn said:
Why do so many people here have Glavine on their ballots over Mussina? Glavine pitched longer (though the first and last few year of his career were below league average), but Mussina was a superior pitcher in virtually every metric. Glavine will end up in the hall before Mussina due to the magic 300 wins total, but what argument is there for Glavine over Mussina that is not centered around wins?

Compare Glavine's 1991-2000 to Mussina's 1992-2001. They are pretty close as far as numbers, but Glavine was on winning teams every year, he won the Cy twice, and had four other top-3's.

Don't worry, Mussina will get in someday, but Glavine is the more accomplished pitcher.

keyalyn · Nov 28, 2013

Its about 851IP, and those extra innings aren't impressive. Glavine had an 89ERA+ in his first 646IP, and a 91ERA+ in his last 263.2IP. So 909IP with a ~90ERA+. Adding on a bunch of sub league average innings isn't impressive.

As far as signature seasons, Mussina had more than twice as many 5+WAR years as Glavine did. Mussina was the best pitcher in the AL in 2001 and finished 5th due to a 17-11 record. Even better in 1992 but finished 4th. He had just as many great seasons as Glavine, just never won one.

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