Gronk's knee injury: surgery set in January

JMDurron

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This team still has the ability to pull out miraculous finishes at the end due to the coaching/QB combo, so long as Vereen stays healthy.  Vereen, Edelman, Amendola, and 1 of Thompkins/Dobson should be enough for Brady to overcome a mediocre at best offensive line and shaky defense on the other side of the ball.  I think the Pats are one skill position player injury away from being realistically done as a Super Bowl contender this year, but they aren't there yet.  
 

DegenerateSoxFan

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I'm just at a loss to descibe how I feel on this, except that this guy is the greatest fucking tight end I have ever had the privilege of watching, and his career is getting absolutely derailed by injuries. And it has nothing to do with his off-season partying. He just plays balls-out and seems to get hurt out of sheer bad luck.

Every team has injuries every year. That the nature of the game. But one of these years before Brady's done, this team's major injuries are going to mostly limited to guys who aren't the best or among the best at their positions in the league.

I keep telling myself this.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Pretty sure every human walking would've had their leg explode if they got hit the way Gronk did today.
This.

But, is it fair to say that Gronk doing his job puts him in that kind of harms way more than most players?

In other words, he's not injury prone, but he's a target.
 

Dogman

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Eddie Jurak said:
This.

But, is it fair to say that Gronk doing his job puts him in that kind of harms way more than most players?

In other words, he's not injury prone, but he's a target.
 
 
Or the hits he has taken that have injured him are hits that would injure all players. It's pretty much that simple.
 
He is a target because he catches the ball, right?  That makes all receivers targets.
 

crystalline

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Dogman2 said:
 
 
Or the hits he has taken that have injured him are hits that would injure all players. It's pretty much that simple.
 
He is a target because he catches the ball, right?  That makes all receivers targets.
He also has a high center of gravity and runs a lot of crossing routes. Its not universal but tall receivers tend to be sideline stretch guys, and the possession slot option midfield guys tend to be smaller and closer to the ground.
Also Gronk did not look as big or as explosive this year as last. I hope he is able to at least build up his upper body in this recovery time. Hopefully his arm wi heal totally in the off season.
 

kolbitr

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DegenerateSoxFan said:
I'm just at a loss to descibe how I feel on this, except that this guy is the greatest fucking tight end I have ever had the privilege of watching, and his career is getting absolutely derailed by injuries. And it has nothing to do with his off-season partying. He just plays balls-out and seems to get hurt out of sheer bad luck.

Every team has injuries every year. That the nature of the game. But one of these years before Brady's done, this team's major injuries are going to mostly limited to guys who aren't the best or among the best at their positions in the league.

I keep telling myself this.
This seems spot on. Gronk is a big meathead who loves to party and play football (as Logan M. described him). I realize that no one who is getting beat by his TDs is happy, but how can any real football fan hate him in the abstract? He is perfectly and simplistically awesome, and the epitome of the NFL. Hating Gronk is like hating AP, or Russell Wilson, or Aaron Rodgers, or Cam Wake, or Brian Urlacher.
 
This kid has been through hell...and it breaks our heart...
 

Reverend

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Not to Grinch things up for all you people talking yourselves into a quicker than expected recovery because ACL injuries aren't as bad as they used to be, but some of you might want to re-check post #3 of this thread.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Reverend said:
Not to Grinch things up for all you people talking yourselves into a quicker than expected recovery because ACL injuries aren't as bad as they used to be, but some of you might want to re-check post #3 of this thread.
 
DRS is the man but that post needs some clarification as it relates to his take on Gronk's timetable.
 

ragnarok725

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Dogman2 said:
 
 
Or the hits he has taken that have injured him are hits that would injure all players. It's pretty much that simple.
 
He is a target because he catches the ball, right?  That makes all receivers targets.
 
He fights through more tackles, absorbs more contact, and fights for yards in a way that is more similar to a RB than a WR. His injuries have been contact-related injuries, whereas many receivers you'll hear about them pulling or straining something, Gronks have been tears and breaks. If he slipped out of bounds the way you see the AJ Greens of the world, maybe he'd be at a lower risk? He also wouldn't be Gronk if he did that, though.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Or the hits he has taken that have injured him are hits that would injure all players. It's pretty much that simple.

He is a target because he catches the ball, right? That makes all receivers targets.
There's perhaps more of a concern that Gronk will break a tackle than, say, Amendola.
 

Mystic Merlin

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ragnarok725 said:
 
He fights through more tackles, absorbs more contact, and fights for yards in a way that is more similar to a RB than a WR. His injuries have been contact-related injuries, whereas many receivers you'll hear about them pulling or straining something, Gronks have been tears and breaks. If he slipped out of bounds the way you see the AJ Greens of the world, maybe he'd be at a lower risk? He also wouldn't be Gronk if he did that, though.
 
How is this applicable to the major injuries he's been suffering?  The arm break was on an XP, and this was a perfectly placed hit on his knee/leg.  
 
I think people are overstating their case here.
 

NortheasternPJ

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ragnarok725 said:
He fights through more tackles, absorbs more contact, and fights for yards in a way that is more similar to a RB than a WR. His injuries have been contact-related injuries, whereas many receivers you'll hear about them pulling or straining something, Gronks have been tears and breaks. If he slipped out of bounds the way you see the AJ Greens of the world, maybe he'd be at a lower risk? He also wouldn't be Gronk if he did that, though.
It also has nothing to do with any of his injuries. His first was in a PAT, the second was a reinjure of the same injury and today was him running up the seam and got clipped. No tight ends in the league catch the ball and dive to the ground.
 

Dogman

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ragnarok725 said:
 
He fights through more tackles, absorbs more contact, and fights for yards in a way that is more similar to a RB than a WR. His injuries have been contact-related injuries, whereas many receivers you'll hear about them pulling or straining something, Gronks have been tears and breaks. If he slipped out of bounds the way you see the AJ Greens of the world, maybe he'd be at a lower risk? He also wouldn't be Gronk if he did that, though.
 
 
Yeah, I get that. But, any receiver who had Benard Pollard roll over their ankle or take the hit to the knee like Gronk did today would have been hurt just as bad.  
 
The initial broken forearm was a freak injury.
 

radsoxfan

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Ralphwiggum said:
 
DRS is the man but that post needs some clarification as it relates to his take on Gronk's timetable.
 
Not sure what clarification is really required.  He thinks Gronk will start the year on the PUP list, and be out at least the first 6 games of next season.
 
Obviously he is just making an educated guess and assuming a multi-ligament injury, but given what we saw and the reports coming out, seems pretty reasonable to me. Hopefully he can make it back for the second half of next season.
 

Jettisoned

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The hit on Gronk didn't look all that intentional, but the fact that #33 clearly went for the killshot on Edelman on the Pats 3rd touchdown suggests to me that the Browns D weren't above trying to injure people to win this game.  Maybe the dude wasn't trying to blow out Gronk's knee on that play and it was just an accident, but IMO it's pretty safe to assume that most defensive players in the NFL will take the opportunity to injure their opponents, especially if they can do it "cleanly".
 
Edit: Extra if removed.  Thanks Al.
 

Al Zarilla

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Jettisoned said:
The hit on Gronk didn't look all that intentional, but the fact that #33 clearly went for the killshot on Edelman on the Pats 3rd touchdown suggests to me that the Browns D weren't above trying to injure people to win this game.  Maybe the dude wasn't trying to blow out Gronk's knee on that play and it was just an accident, but IMO it's pretty safe to assume that if most defensive players in the NFL will take the opportunity to injure their opponents, especially if they can do it "cleanly".
Extra if in there?
 

Reverend

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Ralphwiggum said:
 
DRS is the man but that post needs some clarification as it relates to his take on Gronk's timetable.
 
He thinks an MCL was likely taken out as well. As radsoxfan said, starts the season on PUP at best if that's the case. (Edit: He said this in the gamethread--that's the missing piece)
 
Also, as rad says, he doesn't know for sure, but since there is no risk of inflating his sense of self, he's been crazy accurate.
 

Stitch01

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I'd sign up for Gronk missing all of 2014 and coming back as good as new and with the ability to play with the same reckless abandon (for lack of a better term) in 2015. Not saying that I hope he misses next season or anything, but if this isn't career altering and we see the same Gronk again at some point I'll breathe a big sigh of relief. Losing a HOF type career to injuries fucking would be a crime, I'm less concerned about next year than about his career.
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

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Sorry, just got back from the game a while ago, so I haven't been able to clarify - obviously he tore his ACL, per the reports (and my early analysis, duh...), and I find it hard to believe he didn't at least tear his MCL to some degree as well, given how he got hit and how his knee buckled.  A couple things to consider here - 
 
1.  If he also tore his meniscus, not a huge deal in the big scheme of things.  If he screwed up his articular cartilage (like Ballard did in the Super Bowl) and needs some sort of cartilage repair, his recovery is going to be much less predictable.  Some guys do fine with it, some (Ballard, for instance)... not so much.  It's certainly in play given how violent that injury was.
 
2.  Even if it's "just" his ACL and MCL, I'd be SHOCKED if he's not on the PUP list to start the season.  He probably won't have surgery for at least a few weeks to do some "pre-hab" and let his MCL heal. That puts his surgery in January, and he won't be back to "full" activities until at least July.  Why rush things, given that he will have had SIX sugeries in the last 12 months...
 
3.  If he actually did go to a hospital for observation, as Belichik said, I'm concerned about something else-  he dislocated his knee and they're worried about a vascular injury or compartment syndrome developing or something else.  
 
It sucks and it stinks and it sucks.  I REALLY hope his articular cartilage is OK.
 

Ed Hillel

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DaveRoberts'Shoes said:
blah blah blah
 
That's all well and good, but how long until he can until he can bust some moves in da club? Three weeks? Four?
 

TrotWaddles

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Just got in from work and saw the replay.

A few things. I love the physical way he plays the game but it looks like he's going to be unavailable for quite sometime.

Freaking sucks the way things have worked out for him AND for the team.

It's December. Next man up and see what we can get.

Do I thinks it's an SB? Nope.

But I need to watch and hope and maybe this defense will start a slow stroll thug killa kind of vibe a la McGinest et al from the early 2000s

Hopefully we'll see him back next year...
 

bakahump

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3.  If he actually did go to a hospital for observation, as Belichik said, I'm concerned about something else-  he dislocated his knee and they're worried about a vascular injury or compartment syndrome developing or something else.
 
 
 
My first thought when I saw the play was Robert Edwards.....
 
Doom and gloom.....but I looked at my wife and said this may be the end of the Patriots as we know them...Yea they will make the playoffs this year....and could win a couple games....but a SB is out. And next year I think we are closer to the 1st 8 game offense we saw this year then the last 4 game offense if Gronk is out.
 
Part of the "problem" with Gronk is not only does he absorb alot of contact when he is hit....he is also hit ALOT.  If that makes sense. While most tight ends catch 50 balls a year.....we have game planned on him catching 80 or 90.  Thats alot of times to be hit, especially like earlier posts pointed out that its usually 2 or 3 guys and they are targeting this legs because otherwise they cant get him down.
 
 
OK SO where do we draft a TE now?  1st? 2nd? Surely before the 3rd.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I was one of many laughing earlier this year during training camp/preseason at the TE depth chart, but boy I'd be happy if the shell-of-Ballard or Sudfeld was available right now.
 

Reverend

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bakahump said:
My first thought when I saw the play was Robert Edwards.....
 
 
Was it a similar hit? I missed the 1999 rookie flag football game in Hawaii.
 

 
bakahump said:
Doom and gloom.....but I looked at my wife and said this may be the end of the Patriots as we know them...Yea they will make the playoffs this year....and could win a couple games....but a SB is out. And next year I think we are closer to the 1st 8 game offense we saw this year then the last 4 game offense if Gronk is out.
 
6-2, even with the losses of other key weapons on offense and defense?
 
Make no mistake, injuries happen to every team, but there is every reason to believe that the team Belichick had on paper for this year was a juggernaut. Granted, that's just on paper, but there are a bunch of teams that had nothing like it even on paper.
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

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Was it a similar hit? I missed the 1999 rookie flag football game in Hawaii.
 
FWIW, Edwards had a non-contact posterior knee dislocation and a serious vascular injury, so not the same. And I get your snark here, just weighing in.

It's just odd that Gronk would go to a hospital for observation for a "simple" ACL

Who knows, maybe they want to monitor him for DTs
 

crystalline

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BigSoxFan said:
I'm not sure a SB is out. If the Pats get the #2 seed, they only need to win 2 games with at least 1 coming at home. The first game would be against a team like the Colts or Chiefs. A Gronk-less Pats team can beat either of those teams. Then, it's most likely down to a road game at Denver. We would be underdogs but even without Gronk, we're scoring points against them. The question is can the defense improve a bit and can the run game keep the ball out of manning's hands? Also, there's always the chance Peyton lays an egg in the divisional round and the Pats get a home AFCCG against a team like Baltimore.
The super bowl is outside in cold weather. Maybe I am fooling myself but that appears to be a HUGE advantage for the Pats.

If they can make it to the final game I like their chances against anyone.
Can you imagine how incredible this team would have been if Wilfork Mayo Kelly Vollmer and Gronk were all healthy? Aaaaack. I think we are going to like what Vereen brings to the home stretch of the season.
 

quint

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bakahump said:
Doom and gloom.....but I looked at my wife and said this may be the end of the Patriots as we know them...Yea they will make the playoffs this year....and could win a couple games....but a SB is out. And next year I think we are closer to the 1st 8 game offense we saw this year then the last 4 game offense if Gronk is out.
Two things, first the hit wasn't remotely like the Robert Edwards injury, at all. Second, from where the New England Patriots are currently seeded a couple of wins puts them right back in the....

Super Bowl.
 

shawnrbu

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I think he must have meant the Willis McGahee injury in the Fiesta Bowl against Ohio State.  As disturbing as that was, Gronk's hit looked even more violent. 
 
Edit:  Actually, the slo-mo of McGahee looked gruesome as anything. 
 

ivanvamp

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I will say this.  Yes, it would royally suck to not have Gronk on the field.  But against the league's #4 ranked defense, here's what Brady and the Pats did in 5 possessions once Gronk left the game:
 
Brady:  20-27 (one spike), 74.1%, 259 yes, 9.6 ypa, 2 td, 0 int
 
Pats:  5 possessions:  FG, TD, FG, TD, TD, 27 points
 
In other words, they managed to find a serious rhythm without Gronk and that bodes well for the rest of the year.  
 

RedOctober3829

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ivanvamp said:
I will say this.  Yes, it would royally suck to not have Gronk on the field.  But against the league's #4 ranked defense, here's what Brady and the Pats did in 5 possessions once Gronk left the game:
 
Brady:  20-27 (one spike), 74.1%, 259 yes, 9.6 ypa, 2 td, 0 int
 
Pats:  5 possessions:  FG, TD, FG, TD, TD, 27 points
 
In other words, they managed to find a serious rhythm without Gronk and that bodes well for the rest of the year.  
That rhythm was found by upping the tempo. They need to do that much more.
 

Pumpsie

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PedroKsBambino said:
I was one of many laughing earlier this year during training camp/preseason at the TE depth chart, but boy I'd be happy if the shell-of-Ballard or Sudfeld was available right now.
The Zach Sudfeld who hasn't even been targeted in his last four games with the Jets?  I don't think he'd help much.
 

Morning Woodhead

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I have this awful visual of Gronk looking like the bionic man when he finally comes back.  Huge arm brace, extra back protection under the jersey, huge knee brace.  It just blows....
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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mascho said:
See ya in 2015 Gronk.

Just let him completely heal and recover.
 
By which point Brady will be 45 years old.
 
Look, Gronk has an injury history as long as your arm. It's one of the reasons he fell in the draft. And now only a few years into his career he's suffered numerous serious injuries and half a dozen surgeries already. He's never going to completely heal, he's always going to be fighting some injury or another. Might as well just figure out how healthy he has to be to be effective. Because 100% is never happening.
 

mascho

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But I've got pretty stumpy arms.

You are right that there are serious injury concerns. I thought that DRS indicated that the addition of an MCL tear would put 2014 in jeopardy. Maybe I am wrong on that. But I am not sure how effective he can be if he doesn't have complete confidence in the knee responding the way he wants it to when he plants/cuts/etc.
 

shoosh77

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If the assumption is that Bill rides off into the sunset when Tom hangs it up, is it time to trade future picks to get more talent for the remaining Brady window? Or is Bill going to be a lifer?
 

johnmd20

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
 
By which point Brady will be 45 years old.
 
Look, Gronk has an injury history as long as your arm. It's one of the reasons he fell in the draft. And now only a few years into his career he's suffered numerous serious injuries and half a dozen surgeries already. He's never going to completely heal, he's always going to be fighting some injury or another. Might as well just figure out how healthy he has to be to be effective. Because 100% is never happening.
 
This is the truth! These severe injuries are piling up at a alarming rate for Gronk. He's never going to be close to 100% at this point and him staying on the field is going to be in doubt until he proves he can. It's really unfortunate. Gronk was set to have an epic hall of fame career.
 

GBrushTWood

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johnmd20 said:
 
This is the truth! These severe injuries are piling up at a alarming rate for Gronk. He's never going to be close to 100% at this point and him staying on the field is going to be in doubt until he proves he can. It's really unfortunate. Gronk was set to have an epic hall of fame career.
 
One possible solution is to sit him out all of next year until the 1st playoff game. Put him on revocable IR until the playoffs. Kind of a 2010 Celtics type of thing where they sacrificed record/seeding for a healthy playoff squad.
 
Of course, the problem with that idea is it assumes you will win the division without playing Gronk all year. Given the state of the AFC East, that seems like a reasonable assumption.
It also assumes you can add Gronk for the first playoff game, and not experience any timing/chemistry glitches from what they've been practicing all year. Plus, if Gronk gets knocked out in the playoffs, it doesn't help you a ton to hold the roster spot all year long. It's definitely not good roster management, which Belichick desires given other injury needs that crop up during the year.
 
It might not be the best idea, but it seems worth exploring. I just don't see how Gronk survives the 16 game war of attrition going forward.