You're doing the same thing in a Celtics thread that you complained about in a Sixers thread.
Greened Illusion: Lebron to the Celtics
- Thread starter TripleOT
- Start date
I love the fire but upgrading his team at every possible opportunity is exactly what Ainge does. There are only 2 guys who Ainge would mess with this current core for:
LeBron
AD
If either becomes available, Ainge would be willing to dump Kyrie faster than anyone can blink. He’s in the perfect spot. He doesn’t have to do anything but he has the assets to pounce should the white whale emerge.
Durant was on Simmons podcast a while back and admitted that Boston wasnt in the race. It was GS or OKC.
Towns attempted 285 3-pointers this past season, connecting on 42%. He is ideal for this era.
Ok, good to know. I thought the OKC stuff was an act towards the end and he was gone once he agreed to meet other teams.
Regarding James, I will say that Ainge courting him might set Kyrie off and risk losing him past 2019 if LeBron falls through. Ainge should still do it, but doing it as quietly as possible (if it can be done) would be in the team’s best interest.
The good news is that if Towns ever became available, and the Celtics acquired him, then they would have both.
What? Reacting to being told to relax after a joking post which wasn't pissy but rather tooling on SAS?
K
Masturbate on
Come on man, this isn’t hard. You came into the thread and chided Celtics fans for reacting to a SAS report when there is plenty of buzz about Philly, including from you, despite there being no actual reports about him being interested outside the very same SAS report. So if we are all speculating, outside of this report, I want logical reasons why Boston wouldn’t be a serious contender for LeBron but Philly would. I do believe there is an argument to make Philly could be a better landing spot, but it’s undeniably an arguable point, and I think most people would agree Boston would offer him the better chance to win over the next few years.
Golden State would obviously trump them both, but the league does not want that to happen I’d guess.
You act like your own hands aren’t in your pants over LeBron potentially going to Philly. Weird that your excitement is entirely logical and ours is absurd, despite their both being built on the same foundation of nothing but SAS, the same guy you deride.
All this notwithstanding, I hope LeBron stays in Cleveland. Let’s climb Olympus.
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Yeah that's the only story behind lebron to Philly, the SAS one. That's why they have been favourites in Vegas and why we started talking about it today. Totally. Good point well made.
I come in to tool on SAS and if you owned yourself by taking him seriously as a source, oops?
If you want to discuss how you trade for LeBron, and how he would fit the team go for it.
Or perhaps a further discussion of how you're going 82-0 without him.
Oh sorry was that not serious and in jest?
It's so hard to tell.
You want to take SAS as a good NBA source I'm going to laugh my ass off at you. Sorry, not sorry.
Not everything has to be a fucking fight, I like to talk about the NBA with other people who like and know the NBA. Many people here fit both.
I come in to tool on SAS and if you owned yourself by taking him seriously as a source, oops?
If you want to discuss how you trade for LeBron, and how he would fit the team go for it.
Or perhaps a further discussion of how you're going 82-0 without him.
Oh sorry was that not serious and in jest?
It's so hard to tell.
You want to take SAS as a good NBA source I'm going to laugh my ass off at you. Sorry, not sorry.
Not everything has to be a fucking fight, I like to talk about the NBA with other people who like and know the NBA. Many people here fit both.
If beating the Warriors the next three our four year is LeBron's number one goal in finding his new team, Boston would be his best spot. 3-6 in the Finals has got to grind on LeBron, and losing that many times in the Finals will be what will hold him back from consensus that the's the GOAT when he retires. Three or four-peating to get his Finals record to 6-6 or 7-6, with three more Finals MVPs, and the narrative changes to "He has as many championships as MJ, and managed to drag some horrible rosters to the Finals, something Jordan couldn't to for many seasons until he finally broke through with a good squad."
LeBron can leave the Cavs for no compensation. If the choice for Cleveland is LeBron signs with the Lakers for nothing, or LeBron signs with Boston for Hayward, the 27th pick, and Boston's 2020 pick, which one are they taking?
If Kyrie isn't down for a reunion, then the Celtics would have to find a third team, one that can give the Cavs some quality without more than one bad contract. The Knicks could be that team, since they would have a chance to re-up Irving. LeBron to Boston, Kyrie to NYK, Kanter (2 year deal at $15m/year, a nice expiring piece next offseason) Morris, Yabu, Rozier, the Knicks 9th and 36th pick in this draft. If the Cavs find real players at 8 and 9 in the draft, their rebuild will be on its way. Tank the next couple of years while LeBron's overpaid supporting cast slugs through the rest of their bloated contract, and the Cavs will be relevant in 2121 if they draft wisely. The Knicks would certainly take a chance on Kyrie possibly being a rental for this package.
LeBron can leave the Cavs for no compensation. If the choice for Cleveland is LeBron signs with the Lakers for nothing, or LeBron signs with Boston for Hayward, the 27th pick, and Boston's 2020 pick, which one are they taking?
If Kyrie isn't down for a reunion, then the Celtics would have to find a third team, one that can give the Cavs some quality without more than one bad contract. The Knicks could be that team, since they would have a chance to re-up Irving. LeBron to Boston, Kyrie to NYK, Kanter (2 year deal at $15m/year, a nice expiring piece next offseason) Morris, Yabu, Rozier, the Knicks 9th and 36th pick in this draft. If the Cavs find real players at 8 and 9 in the draft, their rebuild will be on its way. Tank the next couple of years while LeBron's overpaid supporting cast slugs through the rest of their bloated contract, and the Cavs will be relevant in 2121 if they draft wisely. The Knicks would certainly take a chance on Kyrie possibly being a rental for this package.
I'm putting the odds of this (Lebron to C's) actually happening at somewhere below 1%. That said, if there's an agreement that works for all parties (Lebron, Danny, Brad, C's ownership), you have to do it.
There's no way any courtship of Lebron will be quiet. I mean, are we not going to invite Kyrie to the big meeting with the players when we fly Brady and Papi in???
Brady and Papi?
Those guys are ok as the opening act.
But If you want to sell LBJ on the Green you do it with playing to his vanity and his perspective on his place in hoops history. You sell him on playing on a historic stage with a supporting cast that will give him the final act of his historic career that he dreams of.
You sell him on the champions who have won it on the parquet. You bring in KG and Pierce, guys he can relate to, but to seal the deal you bring Jaylen and Jason, the children he can help mold into champions, and then you close it with #6, an NBA titan, the real lord of the rings, to ask LeBron if he's man enough to take the torch and his game and his team to the next level.
How do you say no to a God?
Those guys are ok as the opening act.
But If you want to sell LBJ on the Green you do it with playing to his vanity and his perspective on his place in hoops history. You sell him on playing on a historic stage with a supporting cast that will give him the final act of his historic career that he dreams of.
You sell him on the champions who have won it on the parquet. You bring in KG and Pierce, guys he can relate to, but to seal the deal you bring Jaylen and Jason, the children he can help mold into champions, and then you close it with #6, an NBA titan, the real lord of the rings, to ask LeBron if he's man enough to take the torch and his game and his team to the next level.
How do you say no to a God?
The assets are there to make it work, but the process isn't clean as you're making it sound. The way you'd want to do the deal is have Lebron pick up his option and then work out a trade before the end of the league year. However that requires Lebron to forego his free agency and it necessitates some back channel negotiations going on now. I'm not aware of Lebron being tight with anyone on the Celtics and the front office doesn't have an established relationship with Klutch Sports, so this option seems very unlikely.
If you don't work out the option and trade, then you have to pitch him in free agency. Do you open the cap space first to show him you're serious? Do that and you could get left in the cold like Houston with Bosh several years back. Or do you try to get the meeting and assure him you have the means to get the space? Sounds fine on paper but in 2014 Lebron wouldn't consider any team that didn't have a full max spot available. He didnt want to take a discount and he didn't want to damage his new team with a sign and trade. Cleveland dumped players before they even had a strong commitment. That's a huge gamble. But let's just say he'll meet with you even if you don't have the space on the premise you'll do a sign and trade. Hayward makes sense in a sign and trade, but there are very obvious reasons why Brad might object. Kyrie? I don't think Cleveland is getting back into the Kyrie business based on what happened last summer. So then it's a three team deal possibly and that brings many more complications.
Can Boston do it? Of course. If that's what Lebron wants it'll happen. Still, LA and Philly are much cleaner options and are still front-runners based on all the reasons we've discussed for the past 12 months.
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First of all, almost everyone in this thread has said that it is very unlikely James ends up in Boston. Second of all, several Celtics fans on this board have said it is very plausible he ends up in Philly. I understand that you really really really want LeBron in a Sixers uniform and have decided that it's by far the most logical spot for him to land but not every single person who suggests the slim theoretical possibility of some other outcome is a moron or a big meanie.
Third of all, what Stephen A Smith said was this:
That sounds pretty reasonable to me. And you can mock SAS as we all do, but he does have lots of relationships within the NBA and did call the Big 3 to Miami relatively early- which, by the way, included this very player making a FA decision - so it's not as if he's incarcerated Bob.
When I read everyone posting about how much they don't like Lebron or want him here, I realize what an idiot I sound like for saying the same stuff about Harden. The heart wants what the heart wants, I guess.
I think if most knowledgeable NBA fans were to come up with a list of 7 possible landing spots for LeBron, I believe Stephen A. Smith's list would win the majority of votes. So it's possible, if not likely, that SAS simply came up with that list based on his intuition and nothing else. It's possible he knows that LeBron would not reject those 7 outright, or that those 7 teams would not outright reject inquiring into LeBron's availability. I don't think his list is necessarily authoritative, but it's not garbage either. A sound and logical argument could be made for any of those 7 teams landing James.
If I was to rank the teams from most probable to least, it would probably go something like this:
Cleveland
Philly
LA Lakers
<small gap>
Houston
<fairly enormous gap>
Golden State
Boston
Miami
One could quibble where to put Cleveland, but I think it's no lower than 3rd on that list. Maybe Altman could still pull a rabbit out of his hat.
Boston has 2 problems. One is the machinations that would occur in order to free up the space, a problem that Philly, LA, or Cleveland don't have. The second problem is that if James were to come here, the fans would expect the Celtics to win multiple titles. And both the fans, and especially the media, have a history of turning on athletes, and James can be a polarizing figure at times. It may not be the most comfortable environment, especially if things don't go as smoothly as hoped. And I think James is smart enough to know this. He's probably aware of all the crap that David Price puts up with, and could very well be aware that some of that crap is tinged with a stink of racism as well. Even the most popular stars are not immune: Shank and Mazz bring up Papi's failed drug test every chance they can, and even Brady has idiotically gotten some bad press recently for skipping OTA's.
In any event, I'm sure Ainge will do his due diligence, if only to make sure that Philly doesn't build a super team on the cheap. And when LeBron goes from Cleveland to Philly, someone will call in and complain the the Celtics cannot lure quality free agents because of the cold weather.
If I was to rank the teams from most probable to least, it would probably go something like this:
Cleveland
Philly
LA Lakers
<small gap>
Houston
<fairly enormous gap>
Golden State
Boston
Miami
One could quibble where to put Cleveland, but I think it's no lower than 3rd on that list. Maybe Altman could still pull a rabbit out of his hat.
Boston has 2 problems. One is the machinations that would occur in order to free up the space, a problem that Philly, LA, or Cleveland don't have. The second problem is that if James were to come here, the fans would expect the Celtics to win multiple titles. And both the fans, and especially the media, have a history of turning on athletes, and James can be a polarizing figure at times. It may not be the most comfortable environment, especially if things don't go as smoothly as hoped. And I think James is smart enough to know this. He's probably aware of all the crap that David Price puts up with, and could very well be aware that some of that crap is tinged with a stink of racism as well. Even the most popular stars are not immune: Shank and Mazz bring up Papi's failed drug test every chance they can, and even Brady has idiotically gotten some bad press recently for skipping OTA's.
In any event, I'm sure Ainge will do his due diligence, if only to make sure that Philly doesn't build a super team on the cheap. And when LeBron goes from Cleveland to Philly, someone will call in and complain the the Celtics cannot lure quality free agents because of the cold weather.
Boston doesn't need to free up space, they just need to convince LeBron to opt in to his 2018-2019 contract and then execute a sign-and-trade, which they clearly have the assets to do. It's obviously easier to sign him outright but not really a huge issue as long as Danny is ok with giving up one of Horford, Hayward, or Kyrie. Since Hayward isn't going anywhere, it basically comes down to Horford or Kyrie. The Celtics need Horford's size so it's essentially LeBron or Kyrie. For me, that's an easy decision.
As for media/expectations, LeBron will be facing that anywhere. If he goes to Philly, they'll be expecting trophies and that media market is no picnic either. If he goes to LA, he'll be expected to make them great immediately. If it's Houston, it's championship or bust. I think the least amount of expectations would actually be Cleveland since they'd all probably just be relieved to have him. Ultimately, none of this is new to LeBron. He's been skewered before so it's not like a few critical articles would bother him that much. And he'll probably maintain the 1+1 format anyways so he can always leave if he doesn't like it.
I don't hate LeBron, but I'd rather beat him than have him become a Celtic.
The Celt of the past beat other all-time NBA greats: Chamberlain, West, Baylor, Kareem, Magic, Dr. J.
It was fun.
So I hope we get another shot at him
My first choice for him is to go to the Lakers.
It’s what LeBron wants is exactly right. Wherever he wants to go, he will end up. He’ll look at rosters and location and make his decision based on what he prioritizes. I don’t really think cleaner or easier has much to do with it, he knows he can get wherever. I’m still struggling to figure why Philly is that place when he can go to better teams and he has no other connections to Philly.
I don’t buy they can get Kawhi with their assets, either. Fultz was too much of a bust.
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It shouldn't be a struggle. Philadelphia was one of the five best teams in the league this year and can add him without doing a single thing to their roster or future assets. Are Golden State, Boston and Houston better destinations? Probably, but they require trades and roster re-shaping and you don't know what you'd end up with necessarily. Put Lebron on this year's Philly team as is and they are in the NBA Finals. They probably would have put up more of a fight than Cleveland has as well. As for a connection to Philly? There'a pretty obvious one you're overlooking: Ben Simmons is also a Klutch Sports client. Agents play a huge role in all these offseason machinations.
I am not sure Philly gets past a healthy C’s team (even with LeBron). Unless your post was just put LeBron on Philly and have them play against the C’s without their two best players - then they probably make the Finals.
I mean some of the these odds and posts seem to intimate that LeBron to Philly guarantees a Finals’ trip.
I am sure Brad, Danny, Kyrie, and Gordon will have some say if that happens.
Maybe this is for the other LBJ thread but could the NOP be a destination? That looked like a team on the rise this year and the idea of pairing him with Brow, Boogie, Holiday, and Rondo (or some subset of that group) would be a pretty competitive group of guys to play with.
Sure. Now put LeBron AND Gordon Hayward on this Boston team that beat that Philly team in five games. How does that team do? There really isn’t all that much uncertainty, LeBron/Ainge could work out a deal with Cleveland in 24 hours or less. There are plenty of ways to make it happen. LeBron would leave a meeting with Ainge knowing basically exactly what a roster with him looks like. Philly gets a top 5–10 pick next season, plus the opportunity to grab more assets with a Kyrie sign and trade next offseason.
New Orleans is five million under the cap with Boogie off the books. They’d have to convince Cleveland to take Jrue Holiday’s contract, which seems like a piss thing for them.
Never change London.
I both loathe LeBron and would welcome him to the team with open arms.
And no London, there aren’t any credible reports of LeBron going to Philly. I’d bet heavily he doesn’t.
I think a Celtics deal would be a little more complicated and would have to involve a 3rd team (I maintain the Knicks as the team) since Kyrie isn't likely to re-sign in Cleveland and they'd want better rebuilding assets. I think Celtics would obviously be willing to add the Sac 2019 pick to Kyrie (plus filler) to make it work. Cleveland would take Sac 2019 and send Kyrie to Knicks for their 2019 pick unprotected (should be lotto since Porzingis is out half the year), Ntilikina, and a future pick with some protections. Thus, my construct would look like this:
Celtics Give: Kyrie, Sac 2019, filler
Celtics Receive: LeBron
Cavs Give: LeBron
Cavs Receive: Sac 2019, Ntilikina, 2019 Knicks unprotected, future Knicks pick with protections
Knicks Give: Ntilikina, 2019 pick unprotected, future protected pick
Knicks Get: Kyrie
Celtics get LeBron. Cavs get Ntilikina and valuable 2019 picks to rebuild. And Knicks get a 2nd star to pair with Porzingis once he gets healthy while hoping that their 2018 draftee can develop into the 3rd banana.
If LeBron is intent on leaving Cleveland, they should be hoping he chooses Boston since Philly and LA can sign him outright and Houston has absolutely nothing to offer.
Celtics Give: Kyrie, Sac 2019, filler
Celtics Receive: LeBron
Cavs Give: LeBron
Cavs Receive: Sac 2019, Ntilikina, 2019 Knicks unprotected, future Knicks pick with protections
Knicks Give: Ntilikina, 2019 pick unprotected, future protected pick
Knicks Get: Kyrie
Celtics get LeBron. Cavs get Ntilikina and valuable 2019 picks to rebuild. And Knicks get a 2nd star to pair with Porzingis once he gets healthy while hoping that their 2018 draftee can develop into the 3rd banana.
If LeBron is intent on leaving Cleveland, they should be hoping he chooses Boston since Philly and LA can sign him outright and Houston has absolutely nothing to offer.
At this point we're just talking past each other. You originally asked why Philadelphia was considered a frontrunner for Lebron and I stated all the reasons why, most notably that they are the only contending team that has the cap space to sign him outright. You countered by saying that Boston could just do a sign and trade and that the resulting team would give him the best chance at a title. That's possibly true, but once you're talking about hypothetical sign and trades you also have to factor Golden State and Houston back in the mix as well. There's no clear cut answer because we don't know what Lebron wants and his entire inner circle is notoriously tight-lipped.
Frankly we don't anything at this point. Based on 2010 and 2014 I'd surmise that Lebron likes going to teams that are blank slates rather than fully formed, but he could have a totally different directive this offseason now that he's in the waning years of his career.
The reason it won’t happen is that it would require Boston to move Irving (for obvious reasons) and Tatum to make it happen. And Irving wn’t go back to Cleveland, so it would be something like Irving to New York for Ntilikina/#9/filler getting packaged with Tatum to facilitate James to Boston. And at that price I’m just not interested.
If Houston could go the CP3 route, then they could include Clint Capela in a sign & trade to make the numbers work. If Cleveland is left drafting Trae Young at #8, then getting a defensive anchor like Capela is pretty useful.
I suppose James doesn't care much about more money at this point, but if he stays with the Cavs, he can get 5 years, $205M instead of 4 years, $150M as a free agent.
Is everyone here happy with the Celtics paying LeBron an average of $37.5M annually until he's 37? If they want to keep some talent around him, the Celtics will likely be major taxpayers if they do manage to lure him to Boston.
Is everyone here happy with the Celtics paying LeBron an average of $37.5M annually until he's 37? If they want to keep some talent around him, the Celtics will likely be major taxpayers if they do manage to lure him to Boston.
That’s a far worse return than Kyrie and next years Sacramento pick. Which is why the Celtics aren’t trading Tatum.
I agree with most of what you've said, but I'm not seeing why Tatum has to be included. Obviously Kyrie couldn't stay with James coming on, and Cleveland isn't taking Kyrie back, but he'd seemingly have enough value on his own to get Cleveland the requisite return in a three-team deal. What am I missing?
Hmm, could have been a different Simmons podcast (they've done a bunch), but I distinctly remember one where he coyly answered that question with "I'll just let your imagination run wild." Do you have a link to the one you're referencing?
I dont have a link, nor do I feel like listening to the podcasts again.
Yes, they had the discussion twice. The first discussion was the one you're referencing. The second one - I think there were more drinks involved - had Simmons taking shots at OKC for not having a chance and Boston being the runnerup, which Durant flatly denied. I forget the exact language he used, but he basically said Boston wasn't in the running and that it was OKC and GS.
This article has the quotes you're looking for: https://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2018/03/kevin_durant_oklahoma_city_thu.html
There's also this whole exchange regarding the Celtics' pitch and why it didn't work. Depends on how you read it I guess but it doesn't sound glowing:
I do find the irony of you constantly tooling on me for being thin skinned and a homer delicious
And I haven't brought up anything to do with Philly at any point, except to say that the SAS report was neither the first nor only report of his potential interest re Philly. There is a whole other thread about that. So I am unclear why people keep bringing it up here.
Obviously the Celtics would be better with LeBron, but it seems a very high hurdle which would require his commitment before finding out if ainge could even make it happen.
But I'm sure SAS thought of that before his notoriously well sourced nonsense aired.
Yawn
The moment LeBron tells Cleveland he ain’t coming back and opts out, he holds 80% of the leverage with Cleveland. It would take nowhere near Jayson Tatum to complete a deal - Kyrie/salary filler and the Sac pick alone might do it. LeBron can always threaten to leave for LA or Philly for nothing (though he’d lose some money doing so).
Citing to a SoSH thread full of internet posters speculating where LeBron might go is not a legit source from LeBron or someone close to him that Philly is at or near the top of his list. It might well be that they are, but there’s reason to speculate a handful of teams might be. Using the phrase “report on his potential interest” does not get you out of this, because that’s a foundation built on speculation.
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