Greatest Yankee without a Ring?

[jose melendez]

I did this for the Celtics and it was joyous, because the list is so limited, but I think it will also be joyous to do so for the Yankees. Who are the greatest Yankees who never won a ring with the team?

Is Judge at the top of the list now? Mattingly is certainly on there, but Judge is already a better Yankee than Mattingly. Who else? Giambi? Mussina? Winfield?

It makes me sad A-Rod isn't on this list.

 

[tims4wins]

I did this for the Celtics and it was joyous, because the list is so limited, but I think it will also be joyous to do so for the Yankees. Who are the greatest Yankees who never won a ring with the team?

Is Judge at the top of the list now? Mattingly is certainly on there, but Judge is already a better Yankee than Mattingly. Who else? Giambi? Mussina? Winfield?

It makes me sad A-Rod isn't on this list.

Talent wise sure, but Judge needs a few more counting years to reach that level IMO. He already has more career HR than Mattingly, but Mattingly still has more than double as many career hits as Judge.

The thing about Giambi, Mussina, and Winfield are that all three played more than half of their career in places other than NY.

Wild stat about Judge: over 30% of his career hits are home runs. I have no idea how to look something like this up, but is that the highest in history? Ruth was around 25%. Aaron was around 20%. Bonds 26%.

Edit: Big Mac > 36%!!

@Brand Name

 

[pedro1918]

Talent wise sure, but Judge needs a few more counting years to reach that level IMO. He already has more career HR than Mattingly, but Mattingly still has more than double as many career hits as Judge.

The thing about Giambi, Mussina, and Winfield are that all three played more than half of their career in places other than NY.

Wild stat about Judge: over 30% of his career hits are home runs. I have no idea how to look something like this up, but is that the highest in history? Ruth was around 25%. Aaron was around 20%. Bonds 26%.

Edit: Big Mac > 36%!!

@Brand Name

Dave Kingman jumped to mind. 28%.

 

[tims4wins]

Dave Kingman jumped to mind. 28%.

Ditto Adam Dunn

 

[OCST]

Here's one: Righetti? Not crazy. Very good closer on a lot of sucky teams for a long time.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Mel Stottlemyre?

Rickey Henderson?

 

[Deweys New Stance]

What's the standard? Is it just that they played for the Yankees, or did they have to spend the majority of their prime years with them? Because if it's just the former, you can throw out names like Gaylord Perry (90 career WAR, HoF, 314 wins, 2 Cy Youngs).

I'm sure there's lots of examples like that. See: Phil Niekro

edit: yeah, it's probably Rickey

 

[Van Everyman]

That fucker ruined my 10th birthday by throwing a no-hitter
Edit: Righetti

 

[OCST]

I mean, I don't really think it's Righetti but for purposes of this exercise it's a fun name to throw out there.

 

[bankshot1]

Bobby Murcer is on the ringless list

He wasnt Mantle, but he was a better than average player and got traded away before the 70s MFY found their groove.

 

[wiffleballhero]

That fucker ruined my 10th birthday by throwing a no-hitter
Edit: Righetti

This you?

 

[joe dokes]

Mel Stottlemyre?

There's also something of a sports-tragic element to Stottlemyre. He came up in 1964, when he was 22,, at the tail-end of the dynasty. He was critical to the pennant that year. (9-3.), as NYY only won the AL by 1 and 2 games, respectively over the next 2 teams.
The next 10 or so years were terrible for NYY, but he was routinely somewhere between very good and really good. He also didn;t miss a start between 65 and '73. (Between 35 and 39 every year.) Then, in 1974, just as they were starting to turn it around, he blew out his arm.

I'd also add Bobby Murcer. The first "next Mantle." From Oklahoma like Mantle. Started out as a SS, moved to CF like Mantle. Came up in 65 at 19. Was traded in 74. Returned from 79 to 83. Total of 13yrs with NYY, but missed all the good stuff.

EDIT: @bankshot1 beat me to Murcer.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

That fucker ruined my 10th birthday by throwing a no-hitter
Edit: Righetti

That makes you a Yankee-Doodle-Dandy.

 

[Van Everyman]

This you?

View attachment 90958

That makes you a Yankee-Doodle-Dandy.

I hate you both

 

[OnWisc]

Rickey Henderson has two rings and was with the Yankees for only a fraction of his career. If the question is simply anyone who put on a Yankees uniform and didn’t win a ring with the team, Rickey may well be the answer but it probably expands the pool considerably.

 

[moondog80]

It's Judge and it's not close. Mattingly (42 WAR) had like 6 good years before his injuries took over, played in one postseason series. Judge (52 WAR) has been great for an 8 year period where he's been one of the few transcendent players in MLB (2 MVPs, 62 HR season) and a fixture in the postseason, his struggles there notwithstanding.

Current Yankee WAR list.

Ruth 142.7
Gehrig 113.7
Mantle 110.2
Joe D 79.1
Jeter 71.3
Berra 59.6
....
Judge 52.2 (11th)

So, Judge is one good (by his standards) season of being 6th on list, and looking like a strong bet to eventually pass Jeter and Joe D.

 

[LeoCarrillo]

It’s of course debatable as “greatest,” but my favorite was Mussina. Signs a (then-)fat six-year, $88.5M deal with his Orioles’ division bully Yankees right after they win yet another title in 2000. He’s the ace who’s gonna join the dynasty and receive his one or multiple championships, right? And then he gets zilch.

 

[JimD]

It’s of course debatable as “greatest,” but my favorite was Mussina. Signs a (then-)fat six-year, $88.5M deal with his Orioles’ division bully Yankees right after they win yet another title in 2000. He’s the ace who’s gonna join the dynasty and receive his one or multiple championships, right? And then he gets zilch.

And they won it all the year after he retired.

 

[BaseballJones]

Mussina - coveted by both the Red Sox and Yankees, signed on Dec 1, 2000 for that $88.5m over 6 year deal. Less than two weeks later, the Red Sox got their "consolation prize" by signing Manny Ramirez to an 8-year, $160m deal.

Win for the Yankees, right?

Well, let's be clear - the Yankees definitely got their money's worth out of Mussina, as he pitched 8 years for them and gave them a 123-72 record with a 3.88 era, giving them 20.2 bWAR.

But he never made a single all-star team with NY (though he did finish top-10 in the CYA voting twice with them) and while they won a ton of games during his tenure, they never won the World Series with him.

Meanwhile, Manny gave Boston 7 1/2 seasons, and hit 274 homers while driving in 868 runs, slashing .312/.411/.588/.999, and giving them 33.2 bWAR.

And he made 8 all-star teams, finishing in the top 10 in MVP voting 6 times, and helping Boston to two World Series championships over his time with them.

Win for the Red Sox. 100%.

 

[loshjott]

Rickey Henderson has two rings and was with the Yankees for only a fraction of his career. If the question is simply anyone who put on a Yankees uniform and didn’t win a ring with the team, Rickey may well be the answer but it probably expands the pool considerably.

Randy Johnson could fit in this category also.

 

[Granite Sox]

Rickey Henderson has two rings and was with the Yankees for only a fraction of his career. If the question is simply anyone who put on a Yankees uniform and didn’t win a ring with the team, Rickey may well be the answer but it probably expands the pool considerably.

To me, Rickey's fame and achievement was as an Athletic, not as much as a Yankee.

I think it's between Moose, Judge, and Mattingly. As good as Mussina was, I never thought of him as carrying the team.

Mattingly had Winfield and Rickey riding shotgun for most of his peak.

I don't think Judge has had quite the star power in supporting roles (Stanton? Rizzo?), so I think his impact will be greater than Mattingly's given he hasn't had a ton of premium support in the everyday lineup.

 

[snowmanny]

To me, Rickey's fame and achievement was as an Athletic, not as much as a Yankee.

I think it's between Moose, Judge, and Mattingly. As good as Mussina was, I never thought of him as carrying the team.

Mattingly had Winfield and Rickey riding shotgun for most of his peak.

I don't think Judge has had quite the star power in supporting roles (Stanton? Rizzo?), so I think his impact will be greater than Mattingly's given he hasn't had a ton of premium support in the everyday lineup.

Yeah, I agree with your three. Unless we are going back to 1918 and Home Run Baker or something. To me it's obviously Judge, but he has a ways to go before we can say he didn't win a title.. Judge is another level as a player. Mussina maybe though I'd lean to Mattingly.

 

[NYCSox]

So it's not Alvaro Espinosa?

 

[tims4wins]

So it's not Alvaro Espinosa?

Sorry, the judges were looking for Who Is Karim Garcia

 

[FelixMantilla]

I'm going with Horace Clarke.

 

[Brohamer of the Gods]

Oscar Gamble's hair. Bonus points for being there for the losses in 1976 and 1981 but being out of town in 77 and 78.

 

[TheGazelle]

It's Judge and it's not close. Mattingly (42 WAR) had like 6 good years before his injuries took over, played in one postseason series. Judge (52 WAR) has been great for an 8 year period where he's been one of the few transcendent players in MLB (2 MVPs, 62 HR season) and a fixture in the postseason, his struggles there notwithstanding.

Current Yankee WAR list.

Ruth 142.7
Gehrig 113.7
Mantle 110.2
Joe D 79.1
Jeter 71.3
Berra 59.6
....
Judge 52.2 (11th)

So, Judge is one good (by his standards) season of being 6th on list, and looking like a strong bet to eventually pass Jeter and Joe D.

I think this is right. It's Judge pretty convincingly. He's had a longer and better peak that Mattingly and he's played for the Yankees more than the other candidates.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I think this is right. It's Judge pretty convincingly. He's had a longer and better peak that Mattingly and he's played for the Yankees more than the other candidates.

It's crazy to think that Judge is already 32. In my mind he's younger than that. The thing I wonder about with Judge is that he's 6 foot 7, and (perhaps this is incorrect) position players of that size don't often age well. Tony Clark is the first that comes to mind.

As much as Judge has been an amazing player so far, in my mind the answer to the question is Mattingly. NYY legend who never won despite having good teams for most of his career, career cut short by back problems just before the dynasty years.

 

[snowmanny]

It's Judge and it's not close. Mattingly (42 WAR) had like 6 good years before his injuries took over, played in one postseason series. Judge (52 WAR) has been great for an 8 year period where he's been one of the few transcendent players in MLB (2 MVPs, 62 HR season) and a fixture in the postseason, his struggles there notwithstanding.

Current Yankee WAR list.

Ruth 142.7
Gehrig 113.7
Mantle 110.2
Joe D 79.1
Jeter 71.3
Berra 59.6
....
Judge 52.2 (11th)

So, Judge is one good (by his standards) season of being 6th on list, and looking like a strong bet to eventually pass Jeter and Joe D.

I agree with you on Judge. One note: Judge may very well pass Berra in WAR next year, but I am guessing most Yankee fans would say he has a ways to go to top Berra (three MVPs, four more top 4 finishes, 10 WS Championships) on the greatest Yankee list.

 

[joe dokes]

It's crazy to think that Judge is already 32. In my mind he's younger than that.

As much as Judge has been an amazing player so far, in my mind the answer to the question is Mattingly. NYY legend who never won despite having good teams for most of his career, career cut short by back problems just before the dynasty years.

It is hard to argue against Judge being the "best." But Mattingly gets some extra points from me because he played through the really shit-tastic years and came out on the other side. Almost. I guess I have a soft spot for those players.

 

[tims4wins]

I agree with you on Judge. One note: Judge may very well pass Berra in WAR next year, but I am guessing most Yankee fans would say he has a ways to go to top Berra (three MVPs, four more top 4 finishes, 10 WS Championships) on the greatest Yankee list.

Well considering some fans want to strip him of his captaincy and trade him, I’m not sure you’d have a tough time arguing with them.

 

[moondog80]

I agree with you on Judge. One note: Judge may very well pass Berra in WAR next year, but I am guessing most Yankee fans would say he has a ways to go to top Berra (three MVPs, four more top 4 finishes, 10 WS Championships) on the greatest Yankee list.

These things tend to have massive anti-recency bias, so I'm sure it's true that many will simply never accept Judge they way they should next to the other Yankee greats, short of winning 4 WS is 6 years or something like that. And Berra was great, but he was never even the best player on his own team, much less the best player in baseball, a crown Judge has worn in the eyes of many since Trout started getting hurt all the time.

And I get 10 WS, but I also get zero rounds of playoffs.

 

[joe dokes]

These things tend to have massive anti-recency bias, so I'm sure it's true that many will simply never accept Judge they way they should next to the other Yankee greats, short of winning 4 WS is 6 years or something like that. And Berra was great, but he was never even the best player on his own team, much less the best player in baseball, a crown Judge has worn in the eyes of many since Trout started getting hurt all the time.

And I get 10 WS, but I also get zero rounds of playoffs.

I'm not sure about *never*. I dont think anyone was better in 1950 or 1951 (Mantle only played half of51). And, even in a Mantle year, given that he was catching 140+ games a year, you could make a case for 1953 as well.

 

[Harry Hooper]

It's crazy to think that Judge is already 32. In my mind he's younger than that. The thing I wonder about with Judge is that he's 6 foot 7, and (perhaps this is incorrect) position players of that size don't often age well. Tony Clark is the first that comes to mind.

Someone probably published something on this. We do know that the aforementioned Dave Winfield put up one of his finer seasons at age 36 and was still formidable at the plate for the age 38-40 seasons while mainly still playing OF.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Have they ever considered moving Judge to 1B as he ages? Sure, he can still play the outfield, but they have a hole at first now and it might extend his career. Of course he could just have a Winfield-type career and be an OF/DH until it's over

 

[jon abbey]

Have they ever considered moving Judge to 1B as he ages? Sure, he can still play the outfield, but they have a hole at first now and it might extend his career. Of course he could just have a Winfield-type career and be an OF/DH until it's over

I think Judge's future position depends on whether they can keep Soto or not, otherwise Judge can play the small RF for a bunch more years.

 

[jose melendez]

It's crazy to think that Judge is already 32. In my mind he's younger than that. The thing I wonder about with Judge is that he's 6 foot 7, and (perhaps this is incorrect) position players of that size don't often age well. Tony Clark is the first that comes to mind.

As much as Judge has been an amazing player so far, in my mind the answer to the question is Mattingly. NYY legend who never won despite having good teams for most of his career, career cut short by back problems just before the dynasty years.

Man, those early 80s MFY teams were much better than I remember. Two divisions, no wild card really changes how I remember things.

 

[jose melendez]

It's actually not that different than the Celtics. The answer was completely obviously Tatum until they won, and then it's a big step down.

Of course, Judge will never win one, so it's very different.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

It’s amazing to me that Jose Canseco won a ring in his one month as a Yankee but players who spent years in the Bronx: Mattingly, Murcer, Stottlemyre, Mussina, etc don’t.

Baseball is a weird game.

 

[Sandwich Pick]

It’s amazing to me that Jose Canseco won a ring in his one month as a Yankee but players who spent years in the Bronx: Mattingly, Murcer, Stottlemyre, Mussina, etc don’t.

Baseball is a weird game.

Even crazier that Luis Sojo won 4.

If you told me Ramiro Mendoza won 3 world series rings, which 3 years would you guess?

 

[jose melendez]

It’s amazing to me that Jose Canseco won a ring in his one month as a Yankee but players who spent years in the Bronx: Mattingly, Murcer, Stottlemyre, Mussina, etc don’t.

Baseball is a weird game.

I have no recollection of Jose in pin stripes.

 

[tims4wins]

Even crazier that Luis Sojo won 4.

If you told me Ramiro Mendoza won 3 world series rings, which 3 years would you guess?

1998, 1999, 2004

 

[joe dokes]

Even crazier that Luis Sojo won 4.

If you told me Ramiro Mendoza won 3 world series rings, which 3 years would you guess?

Also the winning pitcher in the Arod eats Tek's mitt game.

 

[8slim]

Judge is a better player than Mattingly, but Mattingly is revered by Yankees fans in a way that Judge is not. So I’m going to define “greatest” as the most popular guy among NYY fans who never won it all. That’s Donnie Baseball by a mile, IMHO.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Judge
Mattingly
Bobby Murcer
Stottlemyre
Mussina
Righetti
Cole
Tanaka

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

Even crazier that Luis Sojo won 4.

He probably got one for his 20 games with the 1993 Blue Jays, too!

 

[Brand Name]

I have no idea how to look something like this up, but is that the highest in history? Ruth was around 25%. Aaron was around 20%. Bonds 26%.

Edit: Big Mac > 36%!!

@Brand Name

Mac is correct of any player with 558+ hits. The 557 is Gallo, at 208 HR, 557 hits, or 37.3%.

I do think this is Judge, even if he retired today, going specifically by tenure with the Yankees. Don't have a whole ton else to add here.

 

[moondog80]

Judge is a better player than Mattingly, but Mattingly is revered by Yankees fans in a way that Judge is not. So I’m going to define “greatest” as the most popular guy among NYY fans who never won it all. That’s Donnie Baseball by a mile, IMHO.

I get your point, but I’m guessing this is not the case for NYY fans under 40.

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

Weird that a bunch of people named in the "best without a ring" thread do indeed have rings - including Dave Winfield, Rickey Henderson, and Randy Johnson. Mel Stottlemyre won four* with the Yankees.

* - Wikipedia says five, but I can't figure out where that last one comes from.

 

[8slim]

I get your point, but I’m guessing this is not be the case for NYY fans under 40.

Perhaps. But there’s a lot more Yankees fans over 40.