Grantland

JBill

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Aug 17, 2001
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I'm enjoying this trend started by Grantland. SBNation now providing longform sports content:

SB Nation is now giving you longform sports journalism as gorgeous and useful as the platform itself. In addition to our talented stable of staff writers, we have author Greg Jordan and Best American Sports Writing editor Glenn Stout on board to create a destination for in-depth longform sports content.
http://www.sbnation.com/2012/9/25/3394410/welcome-to-the-new-sb-nation
 

Leather

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Jul 18, 2005
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I usually find Bill Barnwell to be decent-not-great, but this article is very well done: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8422905/the-nfl-needs-end-referee-lockout-immediately.

No it's not. It's completely overbaked and presents arguments that have been put forth everywhere else on the internet (SoSH included).

Saying "If they're not careful, the NFL may become irrelevant!" lacks any insight or nuance. It makes it sound like he's talking about MLS or something.

The NFL is not going anywhere. Anybody who stops being a fan because of the refs will come back 6 months later, be it this season or next.

I mean...the NFL might become irrelevant?! Really? That's ridiculous on its face.
 

SidelineCameras

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No it's not. It's completely overbaked and presents arguments that have been put forth everywhere else on the internet (SoSH included).

Saying "If they're not careful, the NFL may become irrelevant!" lacks any insight or nuance. It makes it sound like he's talking about MLS or something.

The NFL is not going anywhere. Anybody who stops being a fan because of the refs will come back 6 months later, be it this season or next.

I mean...the NFL might become irrelevant?! Really? That's ridiculous on its face.
Alright, from a writing point of view I can't argue with what you're saying here. But I appreciated this:

If you make that move now, you also put a line under it and reduce this lockout to an early-season curiosity as opposed to a season-defining fiasco. The league can point to the positive effort it made to end the lockout as opposed to letting it linger on until the union breaks. If this gets to Week 8 and remains as big a story as it has been, though, the whole scenario is different. 2012 becomes a lost season, one in which the public doesn't necessarily believe that the best teams in the league are competing in the playoffs. That kills your league's credibility. The NFL is actually lucky that this disappointment happened to the Packers, who have no central owner who would complain to the league on their behalf. What if this happened to the Cowboys and they ended up missing the playoffs by one game? Don't you think Jerry Jones would be rattling every cage he could find to threaten the league with a lawsuit?


People have been saying in BBTL that Jerry Jones is one of the leaders on this lockout, and Barnwell correctly points out how quickly that could change.
 

Myt1

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The last sentence of that quote is actually one of the worst parts of the article.
 

ethangl

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The NFL is actually lucky that this disappointment happened to the Packers, who have no central owner who would complain to the league on their behalf.
I'm not sure why people keep saying this. The Packers have a chairman. He serves as owner of record, is the voice of the franchise, and represents/votes for them in owners meetings.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Jun 26, 2006
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The relationship between Goodall and the owners is widely misunderstood: a lot of people seem to think the owners report to him.
Agreed. And, further, the importance owners put on winning is widely misunderstood. Obviously, making the playoffs and winning the Super Bowl are good things to happen to your franchise, as they create extra revenue, but the Packers getting screwed out of one win isn't going to enrage the chairman to the point where he changes his viewpoint on the negotiations with the refs. His stadium won't be any less full next home game. If he currently believes the refs should be full-time employees and get a 401k like everyone else, getting hosed out of a win isn't going to change that. He's even likely considered that the inferior refs may lead to a home win the Pack doesn't deserve down the line, so what's the rush.

If Jerry Jones got screwed, he'd publicly bluster and say a bunch of high-minded garbage to appease the fanbase, then walk back to the negotiation table and say the same things he's been saying all along. Maybe some owners are getting exasperated by having to deal with the situation as an annoyance, but in the grand scheme it matters pretty little, I'm sure.

Sure, the Pack-Hawks game was a disaster, but what's everyone been talking about since? The NFL. And how many times have sentences like "the greatest league in the history of the world" and "the most successful sports league on the planet," etc., been uttered in discussing the situation? Lots and lots. The NFL loves every minute of this. No one will tune out. No one will stop watching. No one will stop going to games. In fact, probably more casual fans will tune in to see what all the fuss is about.

The only thing that could go south for the owners is if the players association decides to sympathy strike or something crazy like that. That would affect revenue plenty and get their attention in a hurry.
 

JohnnyK

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The only thing that could go south for the owners is if the players association decides to sympathy strike or something crazy like that. That would affect revenue plenty and get their attention in a hurry.
They could not have done this: http://www.forbes.com/sites/aliciajessop/2012/08/29/take-the-field-why-the-nflpa-cannot-strike-over-replacement-referees/
The NFL-NFLPA collective bargaining agreement provides that during the course of its term, a strike may only be authorized pursuant to Article 46, section 6, related to union security. Thus, pursuant to the collective bargaining agreement, the NFLPA can only authorize a strike of its players if the security of the union to operate as a union is put into jeopardy.
But back to Grantland, I enjoyed Barnwell's (albeit short) article on expected quarterback wins. No idea if the method makes sense though, but it passes the eye-test.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Some of these Grantlandians, particularly Andy Greenwald in today's "Homeland" piece for instance, are so fucking wordy and try to needlessly set either tone or resume at the beginning of their articles that I'm practically screaming "GET TO YOUR FUCKING POINT ALREADY" by the fifth paragraphs. And to make matters worse, they pretty much all shoot their loads in the first three or four graphs. The point of their articles and their endings are usually a hastily scribbled "Millpool ..." on the leg cast that is Grantland before running off to write another incredibly meandering and self-congratulatory introduction of the next article about a pop culture event.

Yes, I get it you're a writer and you like good TV shows. Join the internet club. Please stop hitting me over the head about how "Mad Men", "The Sopranos", "Breaking Bad" and "The Wire" are the awesomest most holy quadrumvirate of TV programs ever. I know this, you know this, every one of your fucking readers know this. What we don't know, and why we clicked onto to this ponderous piece is what you think of the subject that you yourself persumably chose--which was niether "Mad Men", "The Sopranos", "Breaking Bad" or "The Wire".

Just get to the god damn point and quit citing your TV viewing credentials so I can move along with my internet reading.
 

Joe Churches

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Sep 21, 2012
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I enjoyed it as well. It's great that he was somewhat embarrassed about revealing his TNG proclivities but couldn't help himself because of how much he loved the show. The 'something has gone wrong with a diplomat' and 'Data lacks Wi-Fi' observations were pretty funny. I've liked a lot of his stuff, especially the historical sports pieces on pedestrianism and boxing.
 

Bergs

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Jul 22, 2005
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Charles Pierce has a piece on the 2012 Red Sox that manages to both incite and puncture nostalgia, with none of his usual highfalootin' rhetoric. Plus it has a clip of a classic animated Narragansett ad:

http://www.grantland...sox-season-ends
I pretty much love everything Pierce writes, and this was no exception...too bad I can't get a 'gansett in Chicagoland.
 

Deweys New Stance

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Charles Pierce has a piece on the 2012 Red Sox that manages to both incite and puncture nostalgia, with none of his usual highfalootin' rhetoric.
http://www.grantland...sox-season-ends
I like Pierce as a writer a great deal, and I even liked the majority of this piece, but this line:

The farm system is nearly desiccated
reveals the limits of his baseball knowledge.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Jul 21, 2005
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I have been disappointed, since what I felt was a strong start, by Grantland. To be sure there are 2-3 pieces a week that are among some of the best writing on the internet and for that, it's worth my daily visit. So when I say disappointed I mean relative to my own expectations.

Beginning with the oral histories, some excellent pieces on Boxing, Wright Thompson's southern travels and the director's cuts of classic sportswriting, I sort of got the impression that this was going to be a throw back writing site where the writing was first and foremost and where all sports, not just the NFL and Fantasy, were covered. I also came to expect a pretty high level, or sometimes just pretty funny, take on pop culture.

What I feel like we get is this; 2-3 good to great long form pieces a week (usually by the same writers), a maddeningly weird and useless entertainment blog that focuses on about 3 television shows and famous people doing silly things, tired mailbags by Simmons and someone ghost writing for Chuck Klosterman and doing a pretty bad imitation.

I love Long Reads which is a twitter/site/feed/whatever that points out some of the best long-form non-fiction (and sometimes fiction though I ignore that) on the web. I was hoping for something that I now think is a little impossible, or at least is a terrible business plan, and that was a site that featured consistently solid long form stories on sports in the Long Reads vein. They show flashes of it, but for the most part the front page is usually just littered with a mish-mash of half-thought out ideas forced to column length or a blog that repeats a familiar current story in the sports or entertainment world and has a zinger to go with it.

My disappointment doesn't come so much from Grantland itself, actually, because I've come to the conclusion, as I mentioned above, that as a business model what I want is not-sustainable on the internet. Clearly it's not much more sustainable in print, though The New Yorker does still get my money. I hope there are enterprising folks out there much savvier than me or the editors at Grantland that are working towards this because the internet doesn't have to be a hit and run medium. We've been told from the beginning that it can be whatever you want it to be, whatever you make it. Grantland, in particular, makes it just enough to wish for something better and different and when it doesn't make it, it highlights the worst of the internet and the literary culture.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Apr 12, 2001
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Jesus Christ is Molly Lambert terrible. Yesterday she wrote a story about "The Defense of Olivia Munn" I was intrigued because:

A. I thought people hated Olivia Munn two years ago, is this still a thing?
B. Maybe they do, let's see why we shouldn't.

Of course since this is Grantland we needed 15 paragraphs telling us who Olivia Munn is and then I lost interest. Here's the thing, I know who Olivia Munn is and if I didn't I'm online so I could go to Wikipedia to find out who she is. What the fuck is Lambert's need to go into an excrutiatingly boring set up of what she's trying to write about? Who gives a shit about what her major in college was? Who cares about the crappy flicks and TV shows she had to endure before she became a "star". You could literally write a two-paragraph summary on her that leaves out all of the gory details.

I know that I'm just screaming into the wind at this point, but if anyone from Grantland reads this board, her's a little tip: longer isn't better. Interesting is better. Please be interesting.
 

JimBoSox9

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Nov 1, 2005
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I'm pretty much addicted to Olivia Munn - it started with her willingness to debase herself on "Attack of the Show" and was cemented when she teed off on Sam Waterston on "Newsroom" (is there a term for "more than full-mast"?). Even I got nothing out of Lambert's piece. She's a nothing-special blogger. You can't point at any small bit and say "that sucked", but there's no there there. No arc. No point driven home. No structure. No interest. No voice. It's like a decently well-spoken amateur decided to sit down and write out their thoughts on Olivia Munn. She'd be well-received on Tumblr, but that's not the curve she's being graded on. Still haven't figured out what makes her a step up from the thousands upon thousands of people who write shit on the internet for little or no money. That's her leve.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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JBS, I guess that's what's makes me mad. None of her pieces have a POV, it's just a summary of what you know or what has happened. And I don't get how she ended up on Grantland, it's completely bizarre.

Is she hot? I don't know, I don't understand.
 
Jul 10, 2002
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Olivia Munn not sucking my dick on a daily basis is one of the great injustices of humanity in ... oh ... the last century.

(Agreed that the article sucked, but I watched the link where she took the hot dog in her mouth - so there's that!)
 

johnmd20

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JBS, I guess that's what's makes me mad. None of her pieces have a POV, it's just a summary of what you know or what has happened. And I don't get how she ended up on Grantland, it's completely bizarre.

Is she hot? I don't know, I don't understand.
Her writing reminds me of a quote from True Romance:

"You don't wanna show me nothin', but you're tellin me everything." Every column she writes is long and detailed about things we already know. Her Mad Man recaps, for example, could have been written by a 15 year old because all they did was literally recap what happened on the episode. There was no analysis, no depth. Just a shallow recap of nothing. She is very lousy and one of the reasons why I'm so disappointed with Grantland. The fact that she's still writing for the site is a black mark for the whole escapade.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Apr 12, 2001
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jesus

edit; Almost every thing Lambert has written has been about Male Gaze, and then for you to post "is she hot? I don't know, I don't understand." is hilarious in a 'not sure if serious' kind of way.
Ha. That is a jumble.

I was writing very quickly and what I meant was, was she hired because someone thought that she was hot. I've seen her picture and I don't find her attractive at all, however from what I remember from a post here someone said that Klosterman had a thing for her. I don't know if they were being serious or not, but it explains a bunch.

And honestly, I have no idea what "male gaze" is because aside from this piece on Olivia Munn, I haven't read anything by her since the Grantland preview piece. (Which, I can't believe they actually lead off with her).
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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If you haven't read this you should, it's all about the mid-80s Houston Rockets. It's one of Grantland's best, and longest, pieces. Great interviews with the old Rockets, Celtics and Lakers.

It may take you awhile, so batten down the hatches and enjoy your Friday afternoon "working".
 

Plantiers Wart

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Oct 16, 2002
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If you haven't read this you should, it's all about the mid-80s Houston Rockets. It's one of Grantland's best, and longest, pieces. Great interviews with the old Rockets, Celtics and Lakers.

It may take you awhile, so batten down the hatches and enjoy your Friday afternoon "working".
That was a great read. This is one thing Grantland really does wellthese oral histories. Toss in the video clips of Sampson's shot, the fight with Shichting, and it was tremendous. I completely forgot about Lloyd and Wiggins getting banned. And the theory that it was a set-up is pretty intriguing stuff.
 

weeba

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I just finished that book over the course of 2 nights. If you like Sepinwall and have a Kindle/Nook it's well worth the $6

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/whats-alan-writing-a-new-book-called-the-revolution-was-televised

It's basically a quick history of the TV shows that changed the TV landscape (Oz, Sopranos, Deadwood, BSG, Lost, Mad Men, Buffy, Breaking Bad, FNL, 24)
 

ifmanis5

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Sep 29, 2007
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I just finished that book over the course of 2 nights. If you like Sepinwall and have a Kindle/Nook it's well worth the $6

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/whats-alan-writing-a-new-book-called-the-revolution-was-televised

It's basically a quick history of the TV shows that changed the TV landscape (Oz, Sopranos, Deadwood, BSG, Lost, Mad Men, Buffy, Breaking Bad, FNL, 24)
Yeah, I could totally devour that thing on short order.
 

TFP

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I downloaded it the other day and read through some of the chapters, it's some great stuff. The best part is that the chapters are all self contained, so you don't have to have seen all of the shows he discusses, as you can skip some chapters for fear of spoilers. I love Sepinwall's stuff in general, so this was more of the same for me. For the price, it's a great yet quick read.
 

weeba

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Yeah, I skipped over the Wire section for that reason (I know I need to watch it, just haven't carved out the time)
 
M

MentalDisabldLst

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http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8709510/chuck-klosterman-gregg-popovich-entertainment-sports

I enjoyed Chuck Klosterman's piece on the Spurs benching controversy. Klosterman's pretty good at zeroing in on tensions underlying fundamental aspects of sports and pop culture, in this case "why do sports matter?" I'm not sure I agree with his ultimate conclusion, but its a fun read.
Yeah, that was one of the more thoughtful things I've ever seen a sportswriter type up. Although I think the ultimate answer to why do we care so much about sports, that he misses, is: Tribalism. If we didn't have a rooting interest (and uncertain outcomes), nobody would watch the games.
 

Orel Miraculous

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Although I think the ultimate answer to why do we care so much about sports, that he misses, is: Tribalism. If we didn't have a rooting interest (and uncertain outcomes), nobody would watch the games.
Well, he wasn't really trying to answer the question of why we care about sports, he was discussing what it's ultimate purpose is, and those are not the same. He's also discussed tribalism in sports before, and I'm pretty sure he finds the concept ridiculous. He doesn't have any favorite teams himself, he follows teams the way most people follow bands: paying attention to whoever he finds interesting at a particular moment, and moving onto others as circumstances change.
 
M

MentalDisabldLst

Guest
Bill Barnwell argues that Jim Harbaugh is the most underpaid asset in the NFL - and given that coaching salaries are uncapped, that someone will eventually snap up Harbaugh or Belichick for $15M per year. I'm not sure that's true - Belichick already makes $12M/yr and would have no guarantee that he'd have as free reign as he does in Foxborough with Kraft - but it's an interesting argument.

The problem is that we have a much harder time evaluating the true talent level of a coach. Ultimately, a player's value is represented by what he does on the field, and whether it shows up in statistics or not, we can see them and their decision-making and we have a complete set of information on which to judge them. What they do off the field (e.g. preparation) is irrelevant except insofar as it produces on-field results. Whereas a coach's value is predominantly off-field (well, off-sidelines too), and his impact has to be measured by the performance of all his players. Preparing the players, prepping for each specific opponent, as well as decisions made during the game, are all factors - and you can't just judge by W-L record because that's hardly the whole story. I mean, we have a fairly clear idea of who the best QBs are in the league. Would there be anywhere near as much agreement on the best HCs? Around here I think there'd be a clear #1, but beyond that it would get fuzzy fast. I'm just not sure why an owner - likely a billionaire - would put so much money down on an asset of uncertain value.
 

NatetheGreat

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Aug 27, 2007
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Simmons piece on Kobe's brand of "leadership" felt like it rehashed a lot of stuff he's said elsewhere--Kobe has an outside chance to have maybe the best career ever in terms of accumulated wins and numbers, and in some ways he's an intelligent guy, but his approach to "leadership" is both very deliberate and very probably counterproductive. It sort of felt like the Kobe bit from Simmons book, with an interview with Bill Russell slapped on to back up Simmons' point. it wasn't that I disagreed with him or thought it was dumb, it just felt like rehashing the same stuff he's been saying about kobe since the last Lakers title.
 

Scoops Bolling

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Jun 19, 2007
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Simmons piece on Kobe's brand of "leadership" felt like it rehashed a lot of stuff he's said elsewhere--Kobe has an outside chance to have maybe the best career ever in terms of accumulated wins and numbers, and in some ways he's an intelligent guy, but his approach to "leadership" is both very deliberate and very probably counterproductive. It sort of felt like the Kobe bit from Simmons book, with an interview with Bill Russell slapped on to back up Simmons' point. it wasn't that I disagreed with him or thought it was dumb, it just felt like rehashing the same stuff he's been saying about kobe since the last Lakers title.
I read about half the column before stopping because I had that exact same feeling. There was nothing new or interesting outside of the Russell stuff.
 

DegenerateSoxFan

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Zomp

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Norm Macdonald has joined the staff as what looks like a golf writer. His predictions last season were scary accurate so it should be pretty good. I've never read anything by him though so I'm not sure how he'll come across.


Simmons already made an editing error in his first piece, saying Ernie Els won the US Open, when Norm wrote "The Open".
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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This piece, which seems to be the start of what could be an awesome series, by Norm MacDonald is up now. You should check it out. This was located in "The Triangle" section of the site, I sincerely hope that they don't bury it there.

And yesterday's Rembert Browne story on Django was exceptional. I didn't realize that he could write that way.