Grant “Corner Office” Williams

[Cesar Crespo]

Depending on how you're defining that, there's a world full of hockey, soccer, track and field athletes, and triathletes who might argue with you.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program.

All those sports have the best athletes in the world too, and if you are competing against them, it's probably a good idea not to be overweight.

My main point was the NBA is not the MLB. When you are watching an NBA game, there are usually 10 players on the court with sub 10% body fat and in prime physical shape. Every now and then you have your Jokics.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Even Jokic isn't that bad but by NBA standards...

 

[RetractableRoof]

Even Jokic isn't that bad but by NBA standards...

View attachment 37603

Since you mentioned him, here's an old fluff article that says he got down to 9% body fat... point being - perhaps us folks in the cheap seats just don't know who's carrying what for weight or what it means in the context of doing their jobs? Because as you put it, the NBA has the best athletes in the world (including Toronto) - and I'm saying the delta of performance in the last two games wasn't weight related because there couldn't have been meaningful weight loss in that time. So his performance may be influenced by weight (no denying that), but IMO it's lazy for us to assume a couple of bad games to start a season with little to no pre-season are primarily weight related failures.

https://www.stack.com/a/how-denver-nuggets-star-nikola-jokic-dropped-30-pounds-and-transformed-his-body#:~:text=Since he first arrived in,extended to the gym, too.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Since you mentioned him, here's an old fluff article that says he got down to 9% body fat... point being - perhaps us folks in the cheap seats just don't know who's carrying what for weight or what it means in the context of doing their jobs? Because as you put it, the NBA has the best athletes in the world (including Toronto) - and I'm saying the delta of performance in the last two games wasn't weight related because there couldn't have been meaningful weight loss in that time. So his performance may be influenced by weight (no denying that), but IMO it's lazy for us to assume a couple of bad games to start a season with little to no pre-season are primarily weight related failures.

https://www.stack.com/a/how-denver-nuggets-star-nikola-jokic-dropped-30-pounds-and-transformed-his-body#:~:text=Since he first arrived in,extended to the gym, too.

It's probably a combo of bad play and conditioning. From 1st preseason game to now has also been 20 days. He could have easily lost 6-8 lbs in that time. I don't know if he did and I don't know how significant 6-8 lbs would be for him.

edit: I think it's pretty much a given he's in better shape now than he was in the 1st preseason game at least. That's the case for pretty much all players.

 

[benhogan]

It's probably a combo of bad play and conditioning. From 1st preseason game to now has also been 20 days. He could have easily lost 6-8 lbs in that time. I don't know if he did and I don't know how significant 6-8 lbs would be for him.

edit: I think it's pretty much a given he's in better shape now than he was in the 1st preseason game at least. That's the case for pretty much all players.

If you listen to the 30 minute Grant podcast that Wade sent, you may change your Grant examples above

 

[Cesar Crespo]

If you listen to the 30 minute Grant podcast that Wade sent, you may change your Grant examples above

What example? I just used 6-8 lbs because 2 lbs a week is considered healthy weight loss. Losing much more than that is not recommended.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

If you listen to the 30 minute Grant podcast that Wade sent, you may change your Grant examples above

Finally listened to the podcast. I have no doubt that GWill was fit and in shape when he started the season.

Two things that he said that really struck me. (1) Kemba apparently has a pre-game workout routine that is so intense, some players wouldn't do it on an off-day, much less pre-game. If that is the routine Kemba has developed over the years, he's going to have to figure out an adjustment to reduce wear on his knee.

(2) Chris Paul told GWill that he watches every NBA game. That's pretty amazing and given his attention to detail, it's no wonder he can still perform at a high level. GWill said that he's not only started to do this but he's also started to watch historical games.

he doesn't get the press that others do but it sounds like GWill works as hard as any Celtic.

 

[RetractableRoof]

Finally listened to the podcast. I have no doubt that GWill was fit and in shape when he started the season.

Two things that he said that really struck me. (1) Kemba apparently has a pre-game workout routine that is so intense, some players wouldn't do it on an off-day, much less pre-game. If that is the routine Kemba has developed over the years, he's going to have to figure out an adjustment to reduce wear on his knee.

(2) Chris Paul told GWill that he watches every NBA game. That's pretty amazing and given his attention to detail, it's no wonder he can still perform at a high level. GWill said that he's not only started to do this but he's also started to watch historical games.

he doesn't get the press that others do but it sounds like GWill works as hard as any Celtic.

Yep, I'd bet a dollar he's in exactly the physical condition that he and/or team want him to be in. That of course doesn't preclude some sort of tweak, or bump or what have you. I made allowance for the possibility of him being a tad out of shape without judgment, but don't believe it's the case after listening.

Basketball is hard - a slow start in weird, unforgiving circumstances isn't a shock, though not exactly what any player would want. Nor us as fans... lol

 

[Jimbodandy]

Since you mentioned him, here's an old fluff article that says he got down to 9% body fat... point being - perhaps us folks in the cheap seats just don't know who's carrying what for weight or what it means in the context of doing their jobs? Because as you put it, the NBA has the best athletes in the world (including Toronto) - and I'm saying the delta of performance in the last two games wasn't weight related because there couldn't have been meaningful weight loss in that time. So his performance may be influenced by weight (no denying that), but IMO it's lazy for us to assume a couple of bad games to start a season with little to no pre-season are primarily weight related failures.

https://www.stack.com/a/how-denver-nuggets-star-nikola-jokic-dropped-30-pounds-and-transformed-his-body#:~:text=Since he first arrived in,extended to the gym, too.

Yeah sub-10% has a pretty wide range. I tested at 10% and 11% in my early 20s, and I looked fat next to NBA players. I suspect that a lot of these guys are 5%.

 

[lovegtm]

As Grant’s shot starts to look more real, he looks more and more like a 4 and not a 5. Time to lose those 10-15 pounds and get a bit more pop.

 

[benhogan]

Agreed, if losing 10lbs gains more footspeed/hops, he should definitely lose the weight.

He's definitely a big wing/4, he played it roughly 70% of the time last season. He only played the 5/BIG when Brad: (1) wanted to go super small, (2) was out of healthy Centers, (3) was giving TL a mental break, (4) was afraid of Kanter's defense or (5) the 5's were in foul trouble. That being said, Grant can guard Bam in a pinch/small minutes or perimeter Centers, so he adds some versatility. BUT offensively he needs to be setting up camp on the perimeter (the corner specifically) and not clogging the lane.

Theis, TimeLord, & Tristan got this at the 5.

Grant's 3pt accuracy:
2020-21: 19/39 (18 games)
2020 playoffs: 10/17 (17 games)
2019/20 reg season: 24/71 (next 49 games)
2019/20 reg season: 0/25 (first 20 games)

There is a trend going on with his 3pt shooting (42% over the last 84 games). It's almost like he was a 20yr rookie at the start of last season and he's figuring out his role/spots to shoot. Commonly known as development/improvement with young players.

Keep giving Grant consistent minutes at the 4, he spreads the floor for the Jays. While he has had some early season defensive miscues, he'll figure them out with tape. Much like Jaylen Brown, he's highly intelligent and comes with a learner's mindset.

 

[NomarsFool]

I was really glad to see him ice those two huge free throws, too.

He wasn’t near the basket much, but I think he got stuffed again in his only attempt in the low post, IIRC. He’s killing it from 3, though. I think he still needs to find one more weapon on offense.

 

[lovegtm]

I was really glad to see him ice those two huge free throws, too.

He wasn’t near the basket much, but I think he got stuffed again in his only attempt in the low post, IIRC. He’s killing it from 3, though. I think he still needs to find one more weapon on offense.

If he can shoot the 3 and make some plays off closeouts, that's enough to be a useful player if the defense comes back.

 

[benhogan]

I was really glad to see him ice those two huge free throws, too.

He wasn’t near the basket much, but I think he got stuffed again in his only attempt in the low post, IIRC. He’s killing it from 3, though. I think he still needs to find one more weapon on offense.

Grant's (and Semi's) offensive repertoire:
1. shoot corner 3s and draw defenders
2. set screens for the Jays/Kemba/Smart/PP at the top and popping for the 3
3. dive to the rim if a PG gets switched on to him
4. pass the ball without turning it over
5. up-fake with the 3 and closeout to the rim

At this point, Grant may start getting a little more attention from the defense, which is a win for the Jays. When he starts, he'd be the 4th offensive option in the halfcourt. If he shoots over 40% from 3 it would lead to a top 5 NBA offense.

Most importantly he (and Semi) have to play physical/aggressive defense, wear down/beat up the other team's 4. Plus switch 1-5. Hard fouls, don't give up anything easy at the rim.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Since starting his career 0/25 from 3, Grant is 53/127, .417. That includes the playoffs and is over 84 games.

 

[Saints Rest]

Since starting his career 0/25 from 3, Grant is 53/127, .417. That includes the playoffs and is over 84 games.

We should call that start/improvement "A Pedroia."

 

[lovegtm]

Grant looks waaayyy better out there defensively right now. He also seems to have a bit more pop and explosion--possibly Operation Mugatu ("do me a favor and lose 5 pounds immediately!") is in effect.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Grant looks waaayyy better out there defensively right now. He also seems to have a bit more pop and explosion--possibly Operation Mugatu ("do me a favor and lose 5 pounds immediately!") is in effect.

Yes. Much better. His hops are there, and he seems to be sliding better also. The block at the rim was a joy to watch.

 

[NomarsFool]

Last 4-5 games he has also done some things offensively that I don't think he has done much in his career here - driving to the basket, effectively posting up, some nice cuts - with of course continuing to be effective from 3.

 

[chilidawg]

Yes. Much better. His hops are there, and he seems to be sliding better also. The block at the rim was a joy to watch.

The block seemed to really get him going last night. First half he looked terrible, after the block he was good both offensively and defensively. Makes me think at least some of his issues are confidence related, not surprising in a 2nd year player.

 

[128]

The block seemed to really get him going last night. First half he looked terrible, after the block he was good both offensively and defensively. Makes me think at least some of his issues are confidence related, not surprising in a 2nd year player.

He bounced back impressively from the awful air-balled floater after the great pass from Time Lord.

 

[NomarsFool]

After racking up DNP-CDs in 5 of the last 10 games, Grant throws down his best game ever with a career high 17 points.

 

[benhogan]

After racking up DNP-CDs in 5 of the last 10 games, Grant throws down his best game ever with a career high 17 points.

Still made an unnecessary, stupid foul on the perimeter last night. He needs to stop the silly fouls and figure out, over the break, why he is getting beat so easily. He was solid defensively last season, just needs to get back to that. On the other hand, his 3pt stroke looks very solid (43.3%), especially corner 3s (60%).

Not sure if we can trust him in the playoff rotation, even for 10-15mpg???

A rebuilder may value that 3pt%, size, playoff defense from a 2nd yr player on a cheap contract.
Danny should make some calls, and see if Grant + Romeo or Nesmith + draft picks gets them the wing they need.

 

[NomarsFool]

A rebuilder may value that 3pt%, size, playoff defense from a 2nd yr player on a cheap contract.
Danny should make some calls, and see if Grant + Romeo or Nesmith + draft picks gets them the wing they need.

I wasn’t a big fan of the Romeo pick, but I feel like trading him now would be selling really low (hopefully for his sake). I hope he can get some minutes after the break and we and other teams can see what he can do. It’s probably a bit unrealistic, though as between Semi, Nesmith (maybe), and Romeo there won’t be a lot of minutes to go around when Smart comes back. I think there’s also a better than 50% chance they acquire a wing for the playoffs

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Nice CelticsBlog article on GW's career game last night plus video clips too! https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/3/5/22315113/did-grant-williams-stake-a-claim-for-more-minutes-boston-celtics-toronto-raptors

One part I agree with:

A keyword when discussing “tweeners” is versatility—if you’re too big for a wing and too small for a big, then you have to be adaptable and diverse in your offensive approach. Take a quick look at the Tennessee products shot profile from this game, and you see a second-year player proving they’re more than a spot-up corner guy.​

“I think I was in my own head in the beginning (of the season), and wasn’t working as hard as I could have been. Next thing you know, I flipped the mantra and got back to how I’ve worked my whole life, and I think it’s paid off, whether it be my three-point shooting or my defense, and I think it’s paid off.”​

We’re starting to see a more diversified shot profile from the second year big. Against Toronto, the most impressive shot came as Williams stepping into a three-point opportunity following a Payton Pritchard offensive board.​

 

[lovegtm]

Grant's season reminds me of the Homer Simpson quote:
“Every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home wine-making course and I forgot how to drive?”

His shot looks very real (although with a slow release), and he can do various useful things on the offensive end. However, his off-ball defense has gotten a lot worse, as has his ability to stay in front of his guy and not foul.

There's a player in there somewhere, and I'm reasonably confident that some team finds that player at some point. Timing matters a lot for the Celtics, however.

 

[NomarsFool]

There's a player in there somewhere, and I'm reasonably confident that some team finds that player at some point. Timing matters a lot for the Celtics, however.

I would think that this summer (at the latest) one of TT, DT, or RW will be gone. There's certainly a chance that Semi returns, but my guess is that he'll try and find somewhere where he can play a larger role. Both of those moves would open up some space for GW to play a role at the 4 - unless, the Celtics do something to get a more established wing, which I assume would be more of a PF type wing, since they have Romeo and Nesmith as prospect smaller wings (although one of them could certainly be moved in a trade for said wing).

 

[lexrageorge]

I would think that this summer (at the latest) one of TT, DT, or RW will be gone. There's certainly a chance that Semi returns, but my guess is that he'll try and find somewhere where he can play a larger role. Both of those moves would open up some space for GW to play a role at the 4 - unless, the Celtics do something to get a more established wing, which I assume would be more of a PF type wing, since they have Romeo and Nesmith as prospect smaller wings (although one of them could certainly be moved in a trade for said wing).

Replacing Robert Williams for Grant Williams seems like a really bad move basketball wise, and doesn't really save Wyc all that much money in the long run. If RWill is gone, it had better be part of a bigger trade that nets them the needed wing depth.

Of the 3, my money is on Theis, because he will get at least full MLE money from someone if not from Boston.

As for minutes distribution, the Celtics have 7 back-to-backs over the rest of the season, and go from 3/14 to 4/21 before they get 2 consecutive days off, which is then followed by another stretch of 7 games in 11 days going into May. Load management will be a real thing the remainder of the season. Don't expect to see a consistent 8-man rotation during this stretch, no matter how much we desire it otherwise.

 

[TripleOT]

Are there many players with Grant’s size, body type and skillset who are anything more than back of rotation guys or bench filler?

It took PJ Tucker five years of overseas ball before he could break into an NBA rotation, and he’s never averaged more than 9.4 ppg and is at 7.2 ppg in 27 mpg for his career.

If Grant can’t drive to the hoop, and can’t post up, he’s going to have to be a consistent 40+% three point shooter, and is going to have to prove he can make them at volume. Since his historic 0-25 start from three as a rookie, he has shot 42%from deep.

 

[NomarsFool]

Replacing Robert Williams for Grant Williams seems like a really bad move basketball wise, and doesn't really save Wyc all that much money in the long run. If RWill is gone, it had better be part of a bigger trade that nets them the needed wing depth.

I agree. I absolutely do not think they will trade RW for money reasons. As you said, the most likely scenario is that Theis walks away in FA - which I hate to see, as I think Theis is an asset, and you hate to lose assets for nothing. But, there's a chance they make a trade for an impact player and I think Rob Williams is the only truly exciting young player the Celtics have right now (unless Romeo has an amazing post ASB season). For example, I think Beal is a pipe dream, but IF the Celtics were to acquire him - I think Brown should be off the table, and in addition to a Holiday type pick haul the Wizards would need some young player in return. I don't think Nesmith or Williams or Romeo would be enough.

 

[chilidawg]

I agree. I absolutely do not think they will trade RW for money reasons. As you said, the most likely scenario is that Theis walks away in FA - which I hate to see, as I think Theis is an asset, and you hate to lose assets for nothing. But, there's a chance they make a trade for an impact player and I think Rob Williams is the only truly exciting young player the Celtics have right now (unless Romeo has an amazing post ASB season). For example, I think Beal is a pipe dream, but IF the Celtics were to acquire him - I think Brown should be off the table, and in addition to a Holiday type pick haul the Wizards would need some young player in return. I don't think Nesmith or Williams or Romeo would be enough.

Not disagreeing with much of this, but if Romeo has an amazing post ASB season, then isn't he that impact wing we need? I still think there's a reasonable chance the young talent on this team coalesces into a serious contender.

 

[radsoxfan]

Grant Williams' last 6 games:

Minutes:
16, 8, 17, 9, 23, 25 = 98 minutes

Points:
3, 0, 5, 0, 3, 2 = 13 points

He has 3 TOTAL rebounds in his last 4 games.

I mean, what is going on here? Things are improbably somehow getting worse and worse for him.

I feel bad for the guy, he seems like a good dude and I wish he could play but he is just such a gigantic zero they have to give his minutes to ANYONE else at this point unless it's full tank.

 

[radsoxfan]

2 more games since this post.

25 minutes, 0 points
24 minutes, 0 points

49 minutes: 0-4 FG, 7 fouls, 5 rebounds, 3 steals, 2 assists, 0 points

And every wing blows by him like he's standing still. It's almost impossible to be this invisible.

Poor guy honestly, must be so tough for him to go out there like this. He could use a couple games (or weeks) off to reset. Brad has to give Wagner or Nesmith or Romeo or someone else these minutes.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

2 more games since this post.

25 minutes, 0 points
24 minutes, 0 points

49 minutes: 0-4 FG, 7 fouls, 5 rebounds, 3 steals, 2 assists, 0 points

And every wing blows by him like he's standing still. It's almost impossible to be this invisible.

Poor guy honestly, must be so tough for him to go out there like this. He could use a couple games (or weeks) off to reset. Brad has to give Wagner or Nesmith or Romeo or someone else these minutes.

And yet, GW played more minutes off the bench than anyone but TT, including some pretty important minutes in 4Q..

Understand you can't stand him but he's guarding everyone from KAT to DAR. That's pretty important in the Cs scheme. And I don't have the stats but I have to think that whatever Brad and his staff are looking at, he's doing a credible job on D.

And as offense, the Cs have been pretty good on the offensive end lately so GW not taking shots hasn't hurt them.

 

[radsoxfan]

And yet, GW played more minutes off the bench than anyone but TT, including some pretty important minutes in 4Q..

Understand you can't stand him but he's guarding everyone from KAT to DAR. That's pretty important in the Cs scheme. And I don't have the stats but I have to think that whatever Brad and his staff are looking at, he's doing a credible job on D.

And as offense, the Cs have been pretty good on the offensive end lately so GW not taking shots hasn't hurt them.

I like the guy, I feel bad for him.

But he straight up awful right now, there is no sugar coating it. His defense is below average (big drop off from last year) and his offense is next level bad.

Honestly we don't have any other great options which is why Brad is probably giving him a shot, but it's time to try something else. Literally anything else (besides maybe Semi, who is just as bad).

 

[radsoxfan]

As far as advanced stats, he is the worst Celtics this year in just about every metric (Raptor, LEBRON, DARKO, VORP etc). His D numbers are below average and way worse than last year, but semi-serviceable.

His offense stats are vomit inducing.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I like the guy, I feel bad for him.

But he straight up awful right now, there is no sugar coating it. His defense is below average (big drop off from last year) and his offense is next level bad.

Honestly we don't have any other great options which is why Brad is probably giving him a shot, but it's time to try something else. Literally anything else (besides maybe Semi, who is just as bad).

There are other options. I mean Semi plays the same way but Brad gives GW the minutes. Romeo's available but Brad gives GW the minutes.

All I'm suggesting is that perhaps within the Cs scheme, GW generally does what he's supposed to. I mean how many non-starters in the NBA are able get stops vs KAT, Edwards, and DAR? (Not saying the GW doesn't get beat but he also does get stops).

edit: just saw your other post. Sure, it's possible that Brad is irrationally in love with GW and plays despite what the #s say but Brad hasn't been afraid to bench many people (even Gordon and Brown) so I think it's way more likely that Brad actually thinks GW is effectove on the defensive end. YMMV.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

As far as advanced stats, he is the worst Celtics this year in just about every metric. His D numbers are below average and way worse than last year, but semi-serviceable.

His offense stats are vomit inducing.

I see what you did here.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

There are other options. I mean Semi plays the same way but Brad gives GW the minutes. Romeo's available but Brad gives GW the minutes.

All I'm suggesting is that perhaps within the Cs scheme, GW generally does what he's supposed to. I mean how many non-starters in the NBA are able get stops vs KAT, Edwards, and DAR? (Not saying the GW doesn't get beat but he also does get stops).

As radsox said, Brad’s options aren’t only limited they were virtually nonexistent tonight against a team that shoots a lot of 3’s. I mocked Semi’s alligator arms in a pathetic attempt to close out on Edwards in the 2Q (not his fault he simply isn’t capable) so GW becomes the lone option off the bench.

Edit: Forgot about Romeo. I have to think something happened to him tonight either injury or illness. Otherwise that would just be weird.

 

[radsoxfan]

There are other options. I mean Semi plays the same way but Brad gives GW the minutes. Romeo's available but Brad gives GW the minutes.

All I'm suggesting is that perhaps within the Cs scheme, GW generally does what he's supposed to. I mean how many non-starters in the NBA are able get stops vs KAT, Edwards, and DAR? (Not saying the GW doesn't get beat but he also does get stops).

edit: just saw your other post. Sure, it's possible that Brad is irrationally in love with GW and plays despite what the #s say but Brad hasn't been afraid to bench many people (even Gordon and Brown) so I think it's way more likely that Brad actually thinks GW is effectove on the defensive end. YMMV.

I don't particularly blame Brad here. It's not like Semi or Romeo are doing anything to deserve a ton of time either. And the other options aren't great. But Grant has reached a strange point that he is so incompetent on offense you wonder if something has to be done.

He has scored 13 points in his last 147 minutes of NBA basketball, thats very difficult to do. 3.2 points/36 min. Some posters here on SoSH might be able to beat that.

For some comparison, the lowest in the NBA right now (241 qualifying players) is Gary Clark at 6.7 points/36 min. You can't keep playing someone 20-25 minutes a game who doesn't score a point.

 

[benhogan]

I don't particularly blame Brad here. It's not like Semi or Romeo are doing anything to deserve a ton of time either. And the other options aren't great. But Grant has reached a strange point that he is so incompetent on offense you wonder if something has to be done.

He has scored 13 points in his last 147 minutes of NBA basketball, thats very difficult to do. 3.2 points/36 min. Some posters here on SoSH might be able to beat that.

For some comparison, the lowest in the NBA right now (241 qualifying players) is Gary Clark at 6.7 points/36 min. You can't keep playing someone 20-25 minutes a game who doesn't score a point.

Grant has done nothing so far this season to warrant these minutes. Short of castration not sure what you want done

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I don't particularly blame Brad here. It's not like Semi or Romeo are doing anything to deserve a ton of time either. And the other options aren't great. But Grant has reached a strange point that he is so incompetent on offense you wonder if something has to be done.

He has scored 13 points in his last 147 minutes of NBA basketball, thats very difficult to do. 3.2 points/36 min. Some posters here on SoSH might be able to beat that.

For some comparison, the lowest in the NBA right now (241 qualifying players) is Gary Clark at 6.7 points/36 min. You can't keep playing someone 20-25 minutes a game who doesn't score a point.

Last night the big 4 took 66 shots. There are not a lot of shots left over for anyone.

Last 10 games, despite GW apparently not being a NBA athlete and not scoring points, he's +8, +9, +1, +10, +6, -3 (in a 5 point loss), -4 (in a 6 point loss), +14, -2 (in an 8 point win), and +8.

Yes there are times when GW gets blown past or overpowered and we all remember that. But there are also times when he can play credible defense on a big (at one point during the broadcast last night, Scal said he'd be okay if Marcus and GW ended guarding KAT the rest of the night) or a guard or boxex out credibly, but people never remember those plays.

Brad and his staff aren't idiots. They watch the games way closer than we do. I'm sure someone is assigned to break down every play of every player on the court. There is no way Brad woyld play GW 20+ minutes if they thought that people were blowing by him left and right + he offered nothing on offense.

 

[benhogan]

Last night the big 4 took 66 shots. There are not a lot of shots left over for anyone.

Last 10 games, despite GW apparently not being a NBA athlete and not scoring points, he's +8, +9, +1, +10, +6, -3 (in a 5 point loss), -4 (in a 6 point loss), +14, -2 (in an 8 point win), and +8.

Yes there are times when GW gets blown past or overpowered and we all remember that. But there are also times when he can play credible defense on a big (at one point during the broadcast last night, Scal said he'd be okay if Marcus and GW ended guarding KAT the rest of the night) or a guard or boxex out credibly, but people never remember those plays.

Brad and his staff aren't idiots. They watch the games way closer than we do. I'm sure someone is assigned to break down every play of every player on the court. There is no way Brad woyld play GW 20+ minutes if they thought that people were blowing by him left and right + he offered nothing on offense.

Some valid points WBCD. Grant gained some valuable experience last postseason, so Brad has a tendency to go with "who he trusts".

In Grant's favor, he doesn't play "it's my shot/turn" game and "tries hard" to make the next right play. I honestly think he started the season out too heavy/out of shape, and he isn't making those "Grant plays" that add non-box value like last season. His fouling and screen setting has been bad, basic stuff, due to him being slower (fatter) IMO.

Once Fournier returns and Romeo gets comfortable, GW should return to being a small ball center that only plays specific minutes and next to zero wing minutes. But me guessing Brad's rotations has been foolish so far this season.

Hopefully, Grant shows up fitter next season (like his rookie campaign). His lateral foot speed is a complete liability this year.

 

[Jimbodandy]

2 more games since this post.

25 minutes, 0 points
24 minutes, 0 points

49 minutes: 0-4 FG, 7 fouls, 5 rebounds, 3 steals, 2 assists, 0 points

And every wing blows by him like he's standing still. It's almost impossible to be this invisible.

Poor guy honestly, must be so tough for him to go out there like this. He could use a couple games (or weeks) off to reset. Brad has to give Wagner or Nesmith or Romeo or someone else these minutes.

Not Wagner. He's a shithead, and it would be worse. At least Grant knows where he's supposed to be and can sometimes get there in time. And Brad must think that Nesmith doesn't know enough yet either (and his footwork is also suspect, for technique reasons not sloth).

Romeo will continue to get as many minutes as his lungs can handle.

 

[DJnVa]

Not Wagner. He's a shithead, and it would be worse. At least Grant knows where he's supposed to be and can sometimes get there in time. And Brad must think that Nesmith doesn't know enough yet either (and his footwork is also suspect, for technique reasons not sloth).

Romeo will continue to get as many minutes as his lungs can handle.

4 minutes in an OT game---my lungs could handle that.

 

[Jimbodandy]

4 minutes in an OT game---my lungs could handle that.

Could be unrelated to covid, I suppose, but he got 25min on Wednesday and looked good. I'm assuming at this point that Brad is rationing his minutes carefully and for a reason, but that could be a bad assumption. Could also be as simple as Minnesota playing bigger lineups.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Could be unrelated to covid, I suppose, but he got 25min on Wednesday and looked good. I'm assuming at this point that Brad is rationing his minutes carefully and for a reason, but that could be a bad assumption. Could also be as simple as Minnesota playing bigger lineups.

I was having trouble with my league pass feed so I need to go back and look but it wouldn't surprise me if Romeo made some defensive mistakes and was yanked.

 

[Auger34]

Last night the big 4 took 66 shots. There are not a lot of shots left over for anyone.

Last 10 games, despite GW apparently not being a NBA athlete and not scoring points, he's +8, +9, +1, +10, +6, -3 (in a 5 point loss), -4 (in a 6 point loss), +14, -2 (in an 8 point win), and +8.

Yes there are times when GW gets blown past or overpowered and we all remember that. But there are also times when he can play credible defense on a big (at one point during the broadcast last night, Scal said he'd be okay if Marcus and GW ended guarding KAT the rest of the night) or a guard or boxex out credibly, but people never remember those plays.

Brad and his staff aren't idiots. They watch the games way closer than we do. I'm sure someone is assigned to break down every play of every player on the court. There is no way Brad woyld play GW 20+ minutes if they thought that people were blowing by him left and right + he offered nothing on offense.

I don’t think Brad and has staff are idiots. They know way more about the game than I ever will.

However, as a fan, you have to trust what your eyes see somewhat. I fully acknowledge that they can deceive me sometimes and that we all have our basketball pet peeves and bugaboos. But, conceding that Grant is a useful player would basically be me saying that me watching the game is completely useless and I have no clue what I’m watching. That may be the case but I will never admit it myself.....

Anyway, my eyes tell me that Grant is completely worthless on both offense and defense and that his only real value is that he knows where to go and can be in the right spot on rotations.
To me, that’s not worth jackshit and he should be stapled to the bench and both Nesmith/Langford should be getting his minutes.
To Brad, that ability is worth way more and since he wants to win every night, it’s worth more than the development of Nesmith/Langford.
Personally, on a team that has a 0% chance of the title this year, that young player development is much more beneficial....but again, Brad wants to win every night so I somewhat understand it

 

[Euclis20]

I was having trouble with my league pass feed so I need to go back and look but it wouldn't surprise me if Romeo made some defensive mistakes and was yanked.

I don't remember anything in particular, but it's fairly remarkable to consider that, in just 5 minutes, his +/- was -11. In a game his team won in overtime, Romeo was the only Celtic with a negative +/-. That's hard to do.

 

[chilidawg]

I don't remember anything in particular, but it's fairly remarkable to consider that, in just 5 minutes, his +/- was -11. In a game his team won in overtime, Romeo was the only Celtic with a negative +/-. That's hard to do.

Not when you only play in a quarter that they got outscored by 17 in.