O'Connor was also one of the earliest and highest on Jayson Tatum, and his is also known for preferring Brandon Ingram to Ben Simmons.
Grant “Corner Office” Williams
- Thread starter NomarsFool
- Start date
I don't mean to be the turd in the punchbowl here, but didn't Toronto score on Grant a couple times in a row? Obviously, he had the big block on the 3PA. But, I thought Siakam scored on him like 2 out of 3 possessions in the last few minutes as well.
He forced at least two turnovers late in the game, in addition to playing flawless defense on FVV on Toronto's second-to-last possession.
I'll scoop out that turd.
Grant entered the 4th Quarter at 7:13. Toronto scored 9pts with Granite on the floor for 7 of those minutes.
1. Siakam did drive on Grant right away, GW was stout and replays show PS walking. No call. PS missed shot, Tatum probably should have grabbed the reb but was busy signalling travel to the ref. PS scores on his put back after his miss shot.
2. Next trip down Siakam tried to drive on Grant. GW stout, slows PS down. Smart steals ball from Siakam.
3. 3rd straight trip down that Siakam tries to drive on Granite. GW stops him . Grant steals the ball in the lane
4. Next trip down. Siakam picks Brown. Granite picks up Lowrey. KL goes nowhere and turns the ball over trying to pass back to PS.
5. A couple of picks set on Grant. He picks up Kemba's man and also makes it difficult for PS drive. PS hits a diving, tough drive.
6. Siakam drives on Grant. Phantom Foul called on Grant. even SVG thought Brad should challenge the call
7. Grant switches on to OG. and does nothing in 1 possession
8. next possession. OG picks Smart. Lowry torches Grant going to the rim
1:32 - Theis back in for 11 seconds fouls Lowry. 2pts
1:21 Grant back in
9. Grant gets switched on to FVV. Stops FVV from penetrating.
:13 seconds left Toronto down 3pts and FVV takes a jumper. Grant blocks the attempt
So in the last 7 minutes, of a high leverage game/situation, the Celtics gave up 9pts with Grant on the floor. While Grant mostly guarded an All-Star
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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeLKISUWOow
His old coach Rick Barnes compares Grant to PJ Tucker
Grant mentions Draymond
His old coach Rick Barnes compares Grant to PJ Tucker
Grant mentions Draymond
We need a thread title change for his second year - “Grant Williams, stepping up as a sophomore” maybe? Here’s him clowning Embiid:
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/maxacarlin/status/1339017867468169218
Hope his shooting continues 3’s as he did last year after breaking the slump to start, here’s one that’s not a corner three, good to see.
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/celtics/status/1339037092702089217
He also had an impressive seal of Dwight in the paint last night, just clearing him out to set up an easy layup (I forget who got the score, would love to find a clip of that).
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/maxacarlin/status/1339017867468169218
Hope his shooting continues 3’s as he did last year after breaking the slump to start, here’s one that’s not a corner three, good to see.
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/celtics/status/1339037092702089217
He also had an impressive seal of Dwight in the paint last night, just clearing him out to set up an easy layup (I forget who got the score, would love to find a clip of that).
I'm not a shot expert like some here, but it seemed to have tightened up a bit to me.
Thought that he looked a lot more comfortable on the offensive end. Glad to see it.
Definitely slow release. Which isn't all that bad for we don't want him taking anything but wide open looks anyway
True, but a slow release means that you need to be even wider open than other guys. But here's the thing: everyone's release is slower when they're wide wide open. It's just how it works. The question is whether he can release it more quickly, with similar accuracy, when needed.
Grant just turned 22 a couple weeks ago. He's the third youngest on the team (Romeo is youngest, than Nesmith).
Fun sidenote: Tatum is 5th youngest.
Seven players on the roster that are 22 or younger. That seems like a lot. It'll be down to three by the time the playoffs start, but then it'll be eight players 23 or younger.
The Celtics were the least experienced team in the NBA to start last season. Maybe they saw that as a deficiency and that is why they added vets Teague/TT.
They probably are still in the top 5 least experienced this season
Hayward, Kanter, VP, Wanamaker - OUT
TT, Teague, Nesmith, PP - IN
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/11/youngest-oldest-nba-rosters-for-
Grant has looked completely atrocious this year. His feet are in cement, his decision-making suggests he's permanently drunk, and he can't stop swiping down and fouling. Also fat. Someone needs to get in his ear--NBA careers can end up on the edge faster than you'd think.
Grant and Marcus look thick around the middle, as opposed to last season.
Smart can live off his rep for a month as he gets back into shape...Grant not so much
Smart can live off his rep for a month as he gets back into shape...Grant not so much
He has to be the biggest disappointment so far this season. If things don't change soon, I can see some DNP-CDs racking up and him playing or not being based on match ups.
Did he have an interior shot blocked again last night? He needs to be able to post-up smaller players to be able to generate some offense. Shooting is streaky, of course, but he's been awful from 3 this year. You'd sort of think that someone like him would be taking 3PAs for hours a day - it's basically a key component to whether he makes it in the NBA.
What are we looking for here? He's taken 10 of them and hit 3. If he'd hit one more we wouldn't think he's a 40% shooter from three.
He was one of those guys who reworked his body in college- I remember reading about him going to Rick Barnes’s “Fat Camp” and getting down from like 280ish- and I’ve been pretty convinced that he’d have to lighten up from where he was last year in order to keep his feet light enough to stay switchable. Unfortunately it seems like he’s going the other direction with his weight, and that’s just not going to be sustainable for him. His only way forward on defense is to be switchable enough to defend the perimeter against 70% of wings, and strong enough to keep most bigs from getting deep position. I think he’s a guy worth investing in, but he seems like a guy who has to be vigilant with regards to his weight and conditioning.
I'm still unconvinced that is anything. 1 less foul this year and he's at last years numbers. It's noise this early. I don't think we can say it's indicative of anything yet. This early, the eye test means more, not numbers.
Yeah this. If anything, he seems to have increased his confidence on the offensive end. He has taken a couple strong to the hole (including preseason) and put some low post moves on people. The problem is that he seems to have the mobility of a pregnant yak on both ends. Hurts the screens a bit, but mostly it's that even slow guys are getting by him now.
The hope was that increased footspeed and anticipation, combined with his solid base, would make him switchable 2-5 or at least 3-5. But when slomo is treating you like a traffic cone, it's bad news. Man needs boot camp imo.
Edit: kinda redundant to DDs post, sorry.
He definitely looks thicker around the middle but as others have observed, players coming in over their normal playing weight seems to be a common occurrence this year given all that has transpired.
His size bears watching but the eye test also reveals that is making some good progressions too in terms of positioning and leverage. Its absolutely clear some members here are down on him because of his physical limitations which are undeniable. However he appeared to earn the coaching staff's confidence last season and his fundamentals don't seem to have regressed so it probably makes sense to give him a few weeks before we deem his season a disappointing one due to being short, chubby and slow. I suspect burying him on the bench isn't going to do anything for his development or his waist size.
His size bears watching but the eye test also reveals that is making some good progressions too in terms of positioning and leverage. Its absolutely clear some members here are down on him because of his physical limitations which are undeniable. However he appeared to earn the coaching staff's confidence last season and his fundamentals don't seem to have regressed so it probably makes sense to give him a few weeks before we deem his season a disappointing one due to being short, chubby and slow. I suspect burying him on the bench isn't going to do anything for his development or his waist size.
I actually think he’ll be fine-ish, but it’s never good for young guys to miss valuable development time, particularly due to fitness issues.
I've said this in game threads as well, but I struggle to see how he is ever going to be more than a fringe rotation/end of the bench guy. He is just so undersized as a forward and doesn't do enough other things well.
If he was some swiss-army knife defensive switching master, maybe he would have more of a role. But every time he goes up against a wing this year they walk by him like he's standing still.
If he was some swiss-army knife defensive switching master, maybe he would have more of a role. But every time he goes up against a wing this year they walk by him like he's standing still.
He was mostly better than I had expected he would be in defending the perimeter last year- he showed decent footwork and good positioning, so I’m not too moved by his 80 minutes this year. I still think he can ultimately be a PJ Tucker with substantially better passing, but it’s really all about the jump shot and the foot speed for his ability to get on the court enough to develop into that guy.
PJ Tucker would be a great outcome for GWill, I hope you're right.
I would be surprised if Tucker ever looked this overwhelmed guarding average wings at any point of his career, but admittedly that's a total guess since I didn't follow Tucker much early on.
I would be surprised if Tucker ever looked this overwhelmed guarding average wings at any point of his career, but admittedly that's a total guess since I didn't follow Tucker much early on.
PJ Tucker first played in the NBA at 21 with the Raptors after getting drafted in the second round. He was waived after 17 games and did not play in the league for six more years until making it again at age 27. Grant Williams spent the last games of his rookie year playing some high leverage minutes in the ECF. Tucker is a reasonable comp to start with.
Tucker is probably a 99.99% percentile outcome for a second rounder cut after 17 games and not in the NBA for the next 6 years.
Not saying it couldn't work out for GWill in a similar way, but looking at Tucker's career and trying to use it as a comp for a 2nd year player is going to be troublesome. Like saying a backup rookie 6th round QB has a decent chance to be Tom Brady.
If anything, I'd be more interested in a scouting eval from Tucker at that age and if he ever looked this overwhelmed defensively.
Not saying it couldn't work out for GWill in a similar way, but looking at Tucker's career and trying to use it as a comp for a 2nd year player is going to be troublesome. Like saying a backup rookie 6th round QB has a decent chance to be Tom Brady.
If anything, I'd be more interested in a scouting eval from Tucker at that age and if he ever looked this overwhelmed defensively.
I don't know if he was a "master" but last season, he was a swiss-army knife defensive switcher. Yes, he had trouble with the few true centers in the league but for the most part, he was credibly guarding 2-4. I mean he did a relatively good job - better than TheIs or Kanter - against TOR in the playoffs and was on the floor at crunch time because of that.
This year, it doesn't seem like he's keeping people in front of him and not really guarding guys bigger than him.
I know they are flawed stats but just by comparison, last year his ORtg/Dtg was 104/108. This year they are 98/116. I'm not worried about Grant's offense right now, but the DRtg matches my observations.
There’s been some good posts on the comp, I’ll try to find them. Basically they had very similar measurements and college careers, with Grant having significant edges in Assist% and Block%, with better shooting peripherals, while PJ had the edge on the glass. Plus both played for Rick Barnes, who has compared them. Grant has mentioned the comp several times himself. As DeJesus notes, Tucker bounced around Euro for years before making it, so by the time he came over his shot was refined and he added grown man strength to his already sturdy frame.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/pj-tucker-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/grant-williams-1.html
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This is entirely fair. The only point is Tucker did not show as much promise early on as Grant Williams. Its entirely possible that you and wbcd are right and he won't be playable but it seems a bit premature four games into an unprecedented season and after a very encouraging rookie campaign.
He looked overwhelmed enough that he didn't have an NBA job. Tucker is not a 1% outcome for Grant.
Grant needs to drop some fat and improve his lateral quickness, and he'll be fine. It's discouraging due to his age and apparent disregard for how close to the deep bench that a guy with his tweener profile is. It's also discouraging since we don't have enough wing depth. But nobody should be writing him off.
This was too good to let go by. Not sure if this one is pregnant, but it looks like it could be:
I’d have it substantially lower than 90%, but that’s certainly fair. I also think there’s a not-insignificant chance that he ends up better on both sides of the ball than Tucker.
Three months ago the guy was playing decent minutes in the playoffs as a rookie. I’m not going to move my opinion of him too much 80 minutes later.
Three months ago the guy was playing decent minutes in the playoffs as a rookie. I’m not going to move my opinion of him too much 80 minutes later.
Yeah. I'm not sure what Tucker does that it's hard to imagine Grant doing. Grant is ahead of where Tucker was at 26.
Grant was 2x SEC POY. Played a rotational role on a competitive Celtic team last season. Played key minutes in a deep playoff run.
Rick Barnes, GW/PJ's coach, made the PJ comp. Barnes has a 100% better take on Grant's projection after coaching him for 3 seasons than any of us.
The 2020 shortened off-season/preseason has led to many NBA players resting for 2mths and not working out. Grant clearly being one of them. I wouldn't worry one whit about Grant Williams (or Marcus Smart, who also packed on some pounds and has also played like garbage over 5 games) they will be fine in about 3-4 weeks. The season is long and the first 3 months are all about preparing for the last 4 months.
Should Brad curb Grant's minutes until he can guard 2-5 on the perimeter, absolutely. BUT any post slamming Granite won't age well by season's end.
I've seen enough people struggle with weight then to just assume Williams will be ok in a few months.
It's not a question of skill, projection or how far along he is. It's conditioning. He's young, in a position to get minutes, and he shows up out of shape.
It's not a question of skill, projection or how far along he is. It's conditioning. He's young, in a position to get minutes, and he shows up out of shape.
What’s the median expectation of a 21st pick? Grant didn’t have some major Draft Day slide and hasn’t done anything yet to outperform his draft slot.
He was a successful college player with some skills that may translate to the NBA.
If he turns into PJ Tucker that would be a very good outcome, I don’t think this is too controversial. Most likely he will end up worse than that.
He was a successful college player with some skills that may translate to the NBA.
If he turns into PJ Tucker that would be a very good outcome, I don’t think this is too controversial. Most likely he will end up worse than that.