Grant “Corner Office” Williams

Cesar Crespo

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I hadn't realized just how bad he's been in this series. He had the great game 2 but the other 4 games were duds.

For the series: 5 games, 30.7 minutes, .341/.385/.900, 9.4 points, 4.2 rebounds, 1.0 assists.
the Last 3: .238/.154/1.000, 6.0 points, 4.0 rebounds, 1.0 assists, 1.0 blocks, 1.7 TO, 4.3 PF in 29.7 minutes. He has just as many PF as 3PA the last 3 games.
 

Auger34

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I hadn't realized just how bad he's been in this series. He had the great game 2 but the other 4 games were duds.

For the series: 5 games, 30.7 minutes, .341/.385/.900, 9.4 points, 4.2 rebounds, 1.0 assists.
the Last 3: .238/.154/1.000, 6.0 points, 4.0 rebounds, 1.0 assists, 1.0 blocks, 1.7 TO, 4.3 PF in 29.7 minutes. He has just as many PF as 3PA the last 3 games.
Averaging 2 turnovers a game with the amount he actually handles the ball is completely inexcusable.

I am really, really hoping that these last 3 games serve as a reality check for him. I’m not inside of his head so I don’t know for sure…but with what we know about Grant from his interviews and what Ime and his teammates say about him, I really think Grant read his press clippings andstarted trying to do too much
 

Cesar Crespo

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Averaging 2 turnovers a game with the amount he actually handles the ball is completely inexcusable.

I am really, really hoping that these last 3 games serve as a reality check for him. I’m not inside of his head so I don’t know for sure…but with what we know about Grant from his interviews and what Ime and his teammates say about him, I really think Grant read his press clippings andstarted trying to do too much
I think a lot of is what you said in the other thread too, hit or miss league. I also think he's a bench player who is overexposed playing starter minutes. He's better in a 20-25 minute role. Milwaukee's length isn't doing him any favors either.

If you look at his game log for 21/22, he has a lot of games where he's a non factor or worse. He'll also have games where he looks like Al's replacement. I'm not trying to be harsh on Grant, as he's not really any different than any other 7th or 8th man. I just cant justify giving him starter money. And while he still has a summer or two of growth, he doesn't strike me as a guy with considerable upside.
 

dhellers

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I think a lot of is what you said in the other thread too, hit or miss league. I also think he's a bench player who is overexposed playing starter minutes. He's better in a 20-25 minute role. Milwaukee's length isn't doing him any favors either.

If you look at his game log for 21/22, he has a lot of games where he's a non factor or worse. He'll also have games where he looks like Al's replacement. I'm not trying to be harsh on Grant, as he's not really any different than any other 7th or 8th man. I just cant justify giving him starter money. And while he still has a summer or two of growth, he doesn't strike me as a guy with considerable upside.
To defend Grant -- he is getting the stuffings beaten out of him guarding GA. For a guy whose offense depends on rhythm (rather than amazing skill or athleticism), the pain and bruises might be a real problem.
I think of Big Baby -- as he took more hard charges, his offensive efficiency fell apart (he lost his reliable 12' jump shooter)
 

Auger34

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To defend Grant -- he is getting the stuffings beaten out of him guarding GA. For a guy whose offense depends on rhythm (rather than amazing skill or athleticism), the pain and bruises might be a real problem.
I think of Big Baby -- as he took more hard charges, his offensive efficiency fell apart (he lost his reliable 12' jump shooter)
But I don’t think the issue people have with him this series is missing shots. It’s the playing outside himself and trying to create off the dribble (to often disastrous results) that’s the issue and the frustrating thing.

Grants built up enough goodwill with me witg his shooting that I don’t mind if he takes and misses open 3’s. I do mind if he’s trying to take any Buck player off of the dribble
 

joe dokes

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But I don’t think the issue people have with him this series is missing shots. It’s the playing outside himself and trying to create off the dribble (to often disastrous results) that’s the issue and the frustrating thing.

Grants built up enough goodwill with me witg his shooting that I don’t mind if he takes and misses open 3’s. I do mind if he’s trying to take any Buck player off of the dribble
He's also whined about more missed calls in the last week than Theis has in his entire career. And last night, for the first time I noticed anyway, it cost him on defense.
 

benhogan

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In regards to "Horford replacement", nobody believes Grant will ever be as good as Al Horford. The common comps for Grant are PJ Tucker and recently Jae Crowder, which seems fair (neither have ever been as good as AH). When Al eventually ages out they will need a 4 to take his spot in the rotation, at this moment that would be Grant Williams. We've all speculated on Woods, Collins, Jerami Grants' availability this offseason, but the cost is probably too great.

I know offense comprises ~75% of the thought process for comparing players' talent BUT when you have ball-dominant/scoring wings like Tatum/Brown you want to surround them with defense/3pt shooting. Grant has spent the last 2.5yrs hitting 3s at a 40% clip, better from the corners & better in the playoffs. He's capable of guarding KD, Kyrie, Jrue and Giannis on the biggest of stages. I don't believe DPOY is in Grant's future like Stan VanGundy has been speculating but he's clearly a +++ defender.

He's still 23 and should continue to get better as his role is more defined. If the C's get ejected by Milwaukee, I hope Brad can quickly extend both Horford and Grant beyond next season.
 

joe dokes

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He's still 23 and should continue to get better as his role is more defined. If the C's get ejected by Milwaukee, I hope Brad can quickly extend both Horford and Grant beyond next season.
His age is a good point. He might play more of an "old man" game, but he isn't and old man.
 

benhogan

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His age is a good point. He might play more of an "old man" game, but he isn't and old man.
If he cuts 5-10lbs more while keeping muscle mass I imagine his defense would be even better. The game is so perimeter oriented that's where he needs to go.

I've moved up my start point on his extension to TimeLord $$$

TL is better but will always struggle with minutes/injuries. Grant is always available and that's a good skill to have (except when he dribbles the ball off his foot :eek: )
 

mcpickl

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In regards to "Horford replacement", nobody believes Grant will ever be as good as Al Horford. The common comps for Grant are PJ Tucker and recently Jae Crowder, which seems fair (neither have ever been as good as AH). When Al eventually ages out they will need a 4 to take his spot in the rotation, at this moment that would be Grant Williams. We've all speculated on Woods, Collins, Jerami Grants' availability this offseason, but the cost is probably too great.

I know offense comprises ~75% of the thought process for comparing players' talent BUT when you have ball-dominant/scoring wings like Tatum/Brown you want to surround them with defense/3pt shooting. Grant has spent the last 2.5yrs hitting 3s at a 40% clip, better from the corners & better in the playoffs. He's capable of guarding KD, Kyrie, Jrue and Giannis on the biggest of stages. I don't believe DPOY is in Grant's future like Stan VanGundy has been speculating but he's clearly a +++ defender.

He's still 23 and should continue to get better as his role is more defined. If the C's get ejected by Milwaukee, I hope Brad can quickly extend both Horford and Grant beyond next season.
You want to extend Horford?

That feels dangerous to lock in a guys age 37 season a year in advance.
 

benhogan

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You want to extend Horford?

That feels dangerous to lock in a guys age 37 season a year in advance.
Yea, he's been consistently good all season. His game is aging really well.

It's all about price/length, but I see him as being a productive rotational player for the next 2 seasons. He's been pretty healthy during his career and stays in peak condition

OTOH I see a max deal for a younger Harden as being a disaster, due to him not being in peak condition.
 

sezwho

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To defend Grant -- he is getting the stuffings beaten out of him guarding GA. For a guy whose offense depends on rhythm (rather than amazing skill or athleticism), the pain and bruises might be a real problem.
I think this has played a factor since game 3. Specifically around defensive assignments, and I’m not sure if it’s contusion or concussion or something else, but he seemed to square off much less frequently directly against Giannis in G4 and 5.
 

NomarsFool

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On offense, Grant is finding himself above the break just about all the time. Has he even attempted a corner three in the series?
 

Imbricus

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I think part of the problem is that Grant has limited moves (he's developing a few but not many). And when a guy has limited moves, it's easier to predict what he's going to do. A good example is this move Grant figured out where he fakes the three-point shot, the defender lunges, then he moves to the side and calmly takes a clean shot. I've noticed that when he does that now, players aren't biting on it. They're looking for it. And so Grant sometimes tries something he probably shouldn't, like an ill-advised drive, because he's trying to figure out what to do instead.
 

benhogan

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they are usually 4th or 5th options on offense (and guarded that way), getting them spot-up 3s from the Corner is a fantastic option the C's are not opting for. It appears like they are settling for above the break 3s more
 

Eddie Jurak

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They weren't 3-pointers, but Pritch hit two clutch shots in Game 5.
I meant (though didn't say) outside shot.

Watch the second shot Pritchard hit in game 5: broken posession, clock running down, Pritchard races up top to make himself available, calls for the ball, gets it, drives, hits the short fadeaway. He was very decisive: knew what he had to do and just fucking did it.

When the ball is swung to him outside the arc, he doesn't act decisively like that. He shot 2-8 in game 1, 2-4 in game 2, and 0-5 in the 3 games since.
 

Strike4

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I meant (though didn't say) outside shot.

Watch the second shot Pritchard hit in game 5: broken posession, clock running down, Pritchard races up top to make himself available, calls for the ball, gets it, drives, hits the short fadeaway. He was very decisive: knew what he had to do and just fucking did it.

When the ball is swung to him outside the arc, he doesn't act decisively like that. He shot 2-8 in game 1, 2-4 in game 2, and 0-5 in the 3 games since.
To be fair to Pritchard, he's in a true playoff crucible right now as your 8th guy on the depth chart, in his second season. I can't think of a recent series that is this challenging on so many levels, for both teams. If Pritchard is not a negative when he's out there we should be content. On the other hand, he has shown that he can be a valuable asset and it's not out of the realm of possibility that he gets back there (if the Celtics keep playing).
 

128

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To be fair to Pritchard, he's in a true playoff crucible right now as your 8th guy on the depth chart, in his second season. I can't think of a recent series that is this challenging on so many levels, for both teams. If Pritchard is not a negative when he's out there we should be content. On the other hand, he has shown that he can be a valuable asset and it's not out of the realm of possibility that he gets back there (if the Celtics keep playing).
If he could shoot anywhere close to as well as he did from 3-point range in the regular season, that might be the difference in some of these games.
 
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Strike4

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If he could shoot anywhere close to as well as he did from 3-point in the regular season, that might be the difference in some of these games.
My fantasy for him tonight is that he gets left in for a 4-minute stretch early in the 4th quarter because he drains 3 threes, grabs two key rebounds and the lead goes from -1 to +14, and the Celtics never look back. :cool:
 

bsan34

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Grant's job this series is to expend all of his energy guarding Giannis. My fantasy for him tonight is that he draws a couple of offensive fouls on Giannis and the latter spends the night in CP3 in game 4 style foul jail.
 

benhogan

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If he could shoot anywhere close to as well as he did from 3-point range in the regular season, that might be the difference in some of these games.
He's shooting 3s at 43% for these playoffs (9 games) with higher volume than the regular season
 

128

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He's shooting 3s at 43% for these playoffs (9 games) with higher volume than the regular season
In this series, Pritchard is 4 for 17 (23.5 percent) from 3-point range, and Grant is 10 for 26 (38.5 percent).

In the past three games, Pritchard is 0 for 5 and Grant is 2 for 13.

it's great that Pritch was hot against Brooklyn, but his shot has deserted him of late.
 
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benhogan

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In this series, Pritchard is 4 for 17 (23.5 percent) from 3-point range, and Grant is 10 for 26 (38.5 percent).

In the past three games, Pritchard is 0 for 5 and Grant is 2 for 13.

it's great that Pritch was hot against Brooklyn, but his shot has deserted him of late.
randomness is rough, both should have the green light when open from 3 especially from the Corner
 

NomarsFool

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One thing I feel like I've noticed a lot from the Celtics (other teams might do it, too, but I notice it for the Cs) is that I feel like it's very common to upfake, the closeout flies past them, and they still do the side-step before launching the 3. Maybe they are so comfortable with the side step 3 and have practiced it so much that the extra variability from moving doesn't bother them, but sometimes I wonder if the extra movement is necessary. Also, I feel like I see times when they have the open look right then when they catch the ball, but they still do the upfake and sidestep instead of just letting it fly.
 

JakeRae

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There was a very large segment of SOSH that was all
About Williams.
I never quite was there.

you all were right and I was wrong.
I am still not there. The Bucks game plan was awful and Grant and the Celtics took advantage, but there’s not really anything about tonight that should change anyone’s view of Grant’s value unless you somehow thought he isn’t a very good shooter when not defended.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Coach Bud just made GW a ton of money. GW will need to give him a cut.

As someone said in the game thread, it's difficult to understand a game plan that leaves a guy who was top 5 in the NBA in 3P shooting open all game. I mean they weren't even closing out hard on him.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Maybe it's because he was a non factor the last 4. He burned them in game 2 though, so who knows.

Bucks played like it was an afternoon game on a Sunday.
 

JakeRae

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Coach Bud just made GW a ton of money. GW will need to give him a cut.

As someone said in the game thread, it's difficult to understand a game plan that leaves a guy who was top 5 in the NBA in 3P shooting open all game. I mean they weren't even closing out hard on him.
If the Bucks weren’t coming off a title, I’d expect this game to lose Bud his job. The really crazy thing is this was a poor shooting performance from Grant given the quality of shots he got. If he shoots well, with the looks he was getting, he could’ve easily scored 40.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Credit to Williams for his shot making and his defense/energy. That said, the Bucks let him take wide open shots so the real credit should go to the coaching staff who opted to take what was given and the other players, and especially Tatum, who set up all those great looks. This was a well coached series on both ends (the Bucks made a decision that made sense to me and it didn't work).

This will always be the Granite game.
 

Euclis20

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The Olynyk game was great because it WAS out of character - Kelly shot 10-14 off the bench. Grant was 10-22 (7-18 from 3), so actually slightly below his season averages. The game plan (both on offense for boston and on defense for milwaukee) was for him to take these shots. The Bucks were betting he'd miss, Celtics were betting he'd do what he's done all year.
 

Jimbodandy

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Bucks played like it was an afternoon game on a Sunday.
HRB hacked Crespo's account.

Credit to Williams for his shot making and his defense/energy. That said, the Bucks let him take wide open shots so the real credit should go to the coaching staff who opted to take what was given and the other players, and especially Tatum, who set up all those great looks. This was a well coached series on both ends (the Bucks made a decision that made sense to me and it didn't work).

This will always be the Granite game.
Someone called this here (wasn't me), in the vein of "someone will step up, and maybe we'll remember this as the Grant Williams game." I swear that I read this here in the last week.
 

Dduncan6er

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Coach Bud just made GW a ton of money. GW will need to give him a cut.

As someone said in the game thread, it's difficult to understand a game plan that leaves a guy who was top 5 in the NBA in 3P shooting open all game. I mean they weren't even closing out hard on him.
Yep Bud probably earned Grant an extra $5-7 million a year on his next deal with this series. It’s a head scratcher that his game plan in a game 7 was to leave one of the highest percentage 3 point shooters in the NBA this past year wide open and just hope he misses. I understand you have to pick your poison a bit but having Grant’s man give help on drives all game clearly wasn’t the right choice.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Yep Bud probably earned Grant an extra $5-7 million a year on his next deal with this series. It’s a head scratcher that his game plan in a game 7 was to leave one of the highest percentage 3 point shooters in the NBA this past year wide open and just hope he misses. I understand you have to pick your poison a bit but having Grant’s man give help on drives all game clearly wasn’t the right choice.
And maybe make a adjustment when you see it's not working?
 

Joe D Reid

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There was a very large segment of SOSH that was all
About Williams.
I never quite was there.

you all were right and I was wrong.
This formatting makes it look like the Williams in question is William Carlos Williams. I am here for it.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Reading this thread, you'd think Grant killed someone's dog.

Dude had a good game. Maybe just give him this one?