Grant “Corner Office” Williams
- Thread starter NomarsFool
- Start date
Yeah, this too has been a nice development from him this year. He's kind of stubby and not a leaper, so he has to be careful going up around the rim. But he's also smart, and he can use that big body to push people off him to create space. Good to see his offensive game expand (though, to be fair, judging from his college clips, he had a fairly full offensive game; it was just a question of how much of it would translate to the NBA).
Offensively, he's starting to remind a bit me of Jae Crowder. Crowder's main offensive skills were hitting threes (sometimes; he shot 35% in his 3 years as a Celtic), driving closeouts, and not turning the ball over. Grant looks like a better shooter and he is developing the ability to drive closeouts. On the other hand, next to Celtic Crowder, Grant has been a turnover machine (in his first 2 years, turnover rate twice as high despite considerably lower usage). But he had reduced his turnover rate considerably this year, from 17.6% and 17.2% in his first 2 years to 11.5% this year.
Just 23, he definitely has more upside, would like to see him continue to get leaner. Grant is best when he hustles and fronts in the post. His perimeter and help defense would continue to get better with a hair more quickness/hops. His college body type is where he needs to be IMO.
His rep has led to a bunch of pump fake rim runs recently, which is solid offensive growth. I imagine the pump fake will also lead to an uptick in team assists as teams scramble/get put into rotation. For the millionth time, Corner3 efficiency is a fantastic way to bend defenses
According to Scal, Corner Office is threatening to be the 1st NBA player to shoot over 50% from the Corner3 + 75% in the restricted area. He's also 90% on FTs, for good measure.
An ascending Granite should see ~27mpg by next season, the demarcation line for "starter minutes"
Granite is doing more than CornerOffice work.
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/33414881/zach-lowe-10-nba-things-ignore-rudy-gobert-your-peril-one-critical-ingredient-boston-juggernaut-rise
6. Grant Williams, driving
An underrated ingredient in the Boston Celtic's defensive juggernaut and their run up the East standings: Williams doing enough on offense to play major minutes as Boston's younger P.J. Tucker. Williams can guard every position -- key to Boston's switchy scheme.
The goal of switching is to force teams into attacking one-on-one; only Al Horford has defended more isolations than Williams, per Second Spectrum. Teams average a measly 0.684 points when an isolation against Williams leads to a shot or turnover -- 10th lowest among 256 players who have guarded at least 50 isolations. Attack him at your peril.
Williams has drained a career-best 44% from deep at higher volume, and his accuracy is no longer confined to the corners; Williams has hit 38% from above the break, and his comfort out there allows him to function more as a screener and playmaker instead of a stationary shooter -- adding spice to a Boston offense that thrives when its bigs facilitate.
Williams' shooting has allowed Boston to keep one true center -- Robert Williams III or Horford -- on the floor at all times instead of trading size for shooting.
But 3-and-D isn't enough. Role players need to slice into the lane when defenders run them off the arc, and make the next play. Williams has made major strides there.
He's decisive, and a good passer. He's finishing with more oomph:
Williams is shooting 75% at the rim -- by far the best mark of his career. Boston has scored 1.155 points per possession when Williams shoots out of a drive, or dishes to a teammate who launches -- 24th among 296 players with at least 50 drives, per Second Spectrum.
He can even run an impromptu pick-and-roll:
Williams mashes little guys in the post on switches.
Think about what this means for Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown: if every player on the floor -- even the alleged "weakest" link -- is a threat with the ball, stars have an easier time hunting mismatches. Every teammate is a potential screening partner. (Keep an eye on the Derrick White-Tatum two-man game when teams stash point guards on White.)
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/33414881/zach-lowe-10-nba-things-ignore-rudy-gobert-your-peril-one-critical-ingredient-boston-juggernaut-rise
6. Grant Williams, driving
An underrated ingredient in the Boston Celtic's defensive juggernaut and their run up the East standings: Williams doing enough on offense to play major minutes as Boston's younger P.J. Tucker. Williams can guard every position -- key to Boston's switchy scheme.
The goal of switching is to force teams into attacking one-on-one; only Al Horford has defended more isolations than Williams, per Second Spectrum. Teams average a measly 0.684 points when an isolation against Williams leads to a shot or turnover -- 10th lowest among 256 players who have guarded at least 50 isolations. Attack him at your peril.
Williams has drained a career-best 44% from deep at higher volume, and his accuracy is no longer confined to the corners; Williams has hit 38% from above the break, and his comfort out there allows him to function more as a screener and playmaker instead of a stationary shooter -- adding spice to a Boston offense that thrives when its bigs facilitate.
Williams' shooting has allowed Boston to keep one true center -- Robert Williams III or Horford -- on the floor at all times instead of trading size for shooting.
But 3-and-D isn't enough. Role players need to slice into the lane when defenders run them off the arc, and make the next play. Williams has made major strides there.
He's decisive, and a good passer. He's finishing with more oomph:
Williams is shooting 75% at the rim -- by far the best mark of his career. Boston has scored 1.155 points per possession when Williams shoots out of a drive, or dishes to a teammate who launches -- 24th among 296 players with at least 50 drives, per Second Spectrum.
He can even run an impromptu pick-and-roll:
Williams mashes little guys in the post on switches.
Think about what this means for Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown: if every player on the floor -- even the alleged "weakest" link -- is a threat with the ball, stars have an easier time hunting mismatches. Every teammate is a potential screening partner. (Keep an eye on the Derrick White-Tatum two-man game when teams stash point guards on White.)
The defensive ISO numbers match the eye test. While we all love Al Horford, the C's aren't paying $26.5MM to continue the AL nostalgia tour after Jan. '23. Maybe Al will extend at a cheaper rate? If not Brad's hands aren't tied, Grant can slide into that role. Horford/picks should return a decent player. Brad has done a nice job on the major moves while on the job for only 9 months.
Ha I only get triggered when morons now call Grant a BIG.
Al, back-up Center, probably triggers Al's agent since they rarely earn more than the MLE
Ha I only get triggered when morons now call Grant a BIG.
Al, back-up Center, probably triggers Al's agent since they rarely earn more than the MLE
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you see Brad paying full freight for Horford next season?
I just don't see it happening
No idea what Brad thinks, but I'd think an extension at a lower number would be in both sides interests.
Is it though? I don’t think the Cs would commit to much beyond the vet min for the 23-24 seasons and beyond. Too many risks there
I could see scenarios where they hold him through the deadline in case a deal materializes where he's the matching money, while being willing to keep him for on-court if that deal doesn't happen.
The team looks like it's planning to be in the tax next year, but it won't be by that much unless it uses a TPE, so there's something to be said for keeping good players around.
Extension doesn't make much sense at the age Horford will be. Guys really fall off a cliff then.
Brad has until the middle of next season to figure out the best course, there is a lot of time value embedded in that option.
Grants' potential progression and Theis floor also provide plenty of value in regards to the Horford situation. It isn't just a "who is better today, Grant or Al" type of decision.
But if Al is going to a solid contributor next year, and perhaps even the year after, you don't mind having him as dead weight the third year.
Who says no to a 3/21 extension?
I imagine Al says NO, if you are asking him to rip up next year's contract
It's very tricky. Patience by Brad (unless an attractive deal appears in the summer) will probably serve the Celtics' interests
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yea, that may have been too aggresive,
How about a 3/30? That gives him an additional 16 million in guaranteed money
That's probably the ballpark (but who knows, we all got Horford's last deal/extension way wrong)
If that's the course they want to go down, "extending Al", Brad waits to offer that in Jan '23
I think that's a pipe dream. Al is more likely to play out his full deal and collect his full $26.5M than he is to be cut before Jan 2023 and lose $12M. (Also, if Philly makes the finals in 2022 the guarantee goes up to $19M and the guarantee becomes full if Philly wins the finals).
If the Celtics want to extend Al now, I think they need to gurantee his $26.5M and maybe extend at 2/$30M or something. No way, looking at $26.5M for next year and still playing at a high level, he's going to seek to committ himself for 2 more years for a total of just $3.5M.
If he were cut next year, he could hook on with the contender of his choice for cheap (say $1M). That leaves him $11M short of his guaranteed deal. To still beat the 3/$30, he would just need to find someone willing to offer 2/$15, less than the MLE. And that's his reasonable worst case scenario.
I'd think the escalators in his contract would be bound by the Celtics making or winning the Finals (not Philly), right?
OR there would be a financial incentive for Horford if Philly beat Boston in the playoffs. No contract would be structured like that
Pretty sure that incentive clauses like those go with the team so it's not PHI's results that matter, it's BOS>
See, e.g., https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/2/23/22948202/boston-celtics-pre-free-agency-roster-decisions
edit: Keith Smith tweeted same thing:
View: https://twitter.com/keithsmithnba/status/1405891431827451907?lang=en
View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1506107903111012361?s=20&t=fBZ3wEAhjrdLO9p70sE-rg
Keith Smith: Grant's Celtics-Marvel comps:
Smart- Hulk
Al- Captain America
JB- Black Panther
Nesmith- Drax
Luke- Groot
Rob- Thor
Theis- Captain Marvel
JT- Vision
Pritchard- Quicksilver
White- Iron Man
Grant- Spiderman
Fitts- (Missed it)
Thomas- (Missed it)
Hauser- Hawkeye
Ime- Nick Fury
Keith Smith: Grant's Celtics-Marvel comps:
Smart- Hulk
Al- Captain America
JB- Black Panther
Nesmith- Drax
Luke- Groot
Rob- Thor
Theis- Captain Marvel
JT- Vision
Pritchard- Quicksilver
White- Iron Man
Grant- Spiderman
Fitts- (Missed it)
Thomas- (Missed it)
Hauser- Hawkeye
Ime- Nick Fury
Batman mania aside, it's pretty cool that Grant put up a 20/10 on 37 minutes as a starter, and no one is making that big a deal out of it.
Grant is going to get paid, and we will be happy about it (because he'll be tradeable even if there are logjams). TL -> Grant -> PP with mid 20s picks is a really good run of drafting, although obviously some of those are better outcomes than others.
The thing with Grant is that he was a highly skilled player out of college whose skills didn't play well out of the gate, because he was 6'7" with some big man skills. Now that he has developed other parts of his game, he's able to get into situations on the court where he can tap into those big man skills to some degree.
Agree with both of those posts.
Grant developed the skills that he needs to earn pro minutes...in the pros. It's a testament to his coachability and work ethic and frankly makes last year's fat year so confusing.
But now that the game has fully slowed down for him, his BBIQ and savvy has emerged. He looks like the kid who was SEC PoY. He has gone from tweener, undersized big to shooting wing slash on ball beef, and he is gonna get paid.
Grant developed the skills that he needs to earn pro minutes...in the pros. It's a testament to his coachability and work ethic and frankly makes last year's fat year so confusing.
But now that the game has fully slowed down for him, his BBIQ and savvy has emerged. He looks like the kid who was SEC PoY. He has gone from tweener, undersized big to shooting wing slash on ball beef, and he is gonna get paid.
All the reason to not give up on Nesmith just yet. Don't expect this outcome for Nesmith but willing to give him one more crack at it this summer and next year. If Williams can develop into 40+ from downtown, Nesmith certainly has it in him if he ever stops spazzing out there.
No doubt. Nesmith has a high energy level on defense, even if some poor technique. If that guy also could shoot like Pritchard at 6'5", he has value. Too early to give up on that.
With Grant, he's already 40%+ (along w/ PP). It's more of a volume issue than an accuracy/% question with those two moving forward. Expect IME to keep inching up their mins/roles next season.
Nesmith can be hidden in the 11-15 part of the roster since most of the flotsam there won't be around next season. Aaron will continue to get opportunities (next year's business) to see if he can be a 3pt shooter. Same with Hauser. Buying shooting (see Duncan Rob/Bertans deals) is expensive, Brad will develop his own.
Hopefully, Brad can get Grant at a discount to TL's deal.
The question I have for people is who would you rather have on this roster: Grant, Duncan Robinson, or Davis Bertans? Obviously a rhetorical question, you don't need huge volume from role players when you have the JAYS on offense. Defense is criminally underpaid compared to POINTZ/shooting.
Expect PBS to continue with his defensive versatility first philosophy. Wouldn't mind Brad kicking the tires on Hogan favs: Delon Wright (maybe min?) & Kyle Andersen this summer to lengthen the bench.
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Seriously, especially Batman.
reminds me of a buddy in our 20s that decided he wanted to be called Maverick. We were like…No, just no.
Somehow this ends with Pritchard getting dubbed 3-bone and Grant will have to settle for Granty, doesn’t it?
I generally like the "productive college player" picks late 1st/2nd round. But I didn't love the Grant pick. Then I saw the basketball smarts as a rookie and was a fan, and then fell off bandwagon as he got bigger and team struggled to figure out how to use him. Now that it's clicked, I'm back to being a big fan.
All to say, a unique player and a unique journey but right now a real asset!
I'm kind of hoping Batman sticks to Grant. I said in another thread that he better stay in shape with the nickname Batman.
While I was mostly joking, it has some truth to it. You can't have the nickname Batman and come into camp 20 pounds overweight. Hell, even if Batman doesn't stick, he better stay in decent shape. People will be waiting.
Anyway, he had a career high in both points and rebounds yesterday. It was his first double double and 20/10 game (exactly 20/10, even). He scored 20 despite going 1/4 from 3. He was 6/10 from 2 and 5/6 from the line. As has been noted, Grant can do well inside versus certain teams. He's one of the stronger (est?) guys in the NBA. He was incredibly strong coming out of college too. Him gaining weight/strength never made sense to me, especially if the organization gave him this advice. Laws of diminishing returns. If anything, he should have sacrificed some strength for speed/agility.
He's a guy without a natural position. "Not big/strong enough to guard Centers, not quick enough to guard forwards." So lets gain weight. Of course, he is strong enough to guard some centers. And if he adds weight, he's still not big enough to guard the others. Adding weight doesn't help. Plus, he is quick enough to guard some forwards. Adding weight makes it so he can't really guard any. It's like trying to fix a problem that doesn't necessarily need to be fixed. He's the 6th-8th player on most teams, those players are usually flawed in some way or another. Those players flaws can also usually be managed, at least on good teams.
I'd personally like to see him slim down even more in hopes of increased mobility, even if incremental. I'm not sure it would do much good, but I don't see it doing any bad. It also gives him some wiggle room.
And since the last 2-3 times I mentioned Grant was struggling from 3 and expected him to drop below 40%, he'd go on a 5-6 game tear. Let's hope for a 4th. Last 8 games (including last night): .407/.231/.867, 7.9 points, 5.3 rebounds, in 25.5 mpg. 6/26 from 3.
Though he's still at .422 for the season, so he's not in immediate danger of dropping below .400. If he misses his next 13 threes, he'll be at exactly .400.
3pt% by month
October: .500
November: .404
December: .500
January: .370
February: .487
March: .333
The consistency is kind of remarkable.
While I was mostly joking, it has some truth to it. You can't have the nickname Batman and come into camp 20 pounds overweight. Hell, even if Batman doesn't stick, he better stay in decent shape. People will be waiting.
Anyway, he had a career high in both points and rebounds yesterday. It was his first double double and 20/10 game (exactly 20/10, even). He scored 20 despite going 1/4 from 3. He was 6/10 from 2 and 5/6 from the line. As has been noted, Grant can do well inside versus certain teams. He's one of the stronger (est?) guys in the NBA. He was incredibly strong coming out of college too. Him gaining weight/strength never made sense to me, especially if the organization gave him this advice. Laws of diminishing returns. If anything, he should have sacrificed some strength for speed/agility.
He's a guy without a natural position. "Not big/strong enough to guard Centers, not quick enough to guard forwards." So lets gain weight. Of course, he is strong enough to guard some centers. And if he adds weight, he's still not big enough to guard the others. Adding weight doesn't help. Plus, he is quick enough to guard some forwards. Adding weight makes it so he can't really guard any. It's like trying to fix a problem that doesn't necessarily need to be fixed. He's the 6th-8th player on most teams, those players are usually flawed in some way or another. Those players flaws can also usually be managed, at least on good teams.
I'd personally like to see him slim down even more in hopes of increased mobility, even if incremental. I'm not sure it would do much good, but I don't see it doing any bad. It also gives him some wiggle room.
And since the last 2-3 times I mentioned Grant was struggling from 3 and expected him to drop below 40%, he'd go on a 5-6 game tear. Let's hope for a 4th. Last 8 games (including last night): .407/.231/.867, 7.9 points, 5.3 rebounds, in 25.5 mpg. 6/26 from 3.
Though he's still at .422 for the season, so he's not in immediate danger of dropping below .400. If he misses his next 13 threes, he'll be at exactly .400.
3pt% by month
October: .500
November: .404
December: .500
January: .370
February: .487
March: .333
The consistency is kind of remarkable.
Agree Grant should continue to slim down. The quickness uptick will help him front BIGs and add to his head fake dribble-drive game from the CornerOffice.
As long as Batman doesn't return to being Fatman we should expect continued development.
As long as Batman doesn't return to being Fatman we should expect continued development.
How much of his run overall is effectively replacing Tatum in the lineup? That's a huge downgrade no matter what Grant does and especially given Celts bench was pretty weak for more than half the year, could combine to drive that.
Or, it could be seeing something negative that we aren't through the eye test too.
I'd say Grant is a good role/complementary player that plays well with the top players/starters
For example, if you put Grant w/Smart JAYLord (the 3rd most played 5-man unit for the C's) you get
advanced off rtg//def rtg 126.3 // 95.3 // +31.1 over 95 minutes
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612738
Actually, if you look at 2-man #s, he is a sizeable +++ player with any of the starters (& D White)
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612738&GroupQuantity=2&sort=GROUP_NAME&dir=-1
also, Aaron Nesmith has a better +/- than Grant, which probably indicates a flawed stat.
I'm liking the Dork Knight label.
Some stats/film to back up Grant's defense vs. Nets/perimeter. He also shot 3s well in some key spots.
https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/4/27/23042518/ode-grant-williams-his-defense-against-kevin-durant-and-a-potential-date-with-giannis-antetokounmpo
Some stats/film to back up Grant's defense vs. Nets/perimeter. He also shot 3s well in some key spots.
https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/4/27/23042518/ode-grant-williams-his-defense-against-kevin-durant-and-a-potential-date-with-giannis-antetokounmpo
One of the highlights of seeing your team go on a postseason run is seeing the national media start paying attention to role players that have achieved a level of cult status within the fanbase. In turn, those players become bigger stars, if only for a series. It has been so great seeing GRANT get attention from the talking heads and then delivering night-after-night in the playoffs. I got a big kick out of seeing that group of young guys in the G-R-A-N-T shirts under the basket tonight.
There just aren't many guys who are that strong, can move their feet, contest shots, and hit 3s. Calling him a JAG is slander at this point.
If you're a coach and you want to teach your kids how to play on-ball man-to-man defense, just show a series of possessions focusing on Grant Williams. Great defensive posture. Excellent footwork. Hustles. Uses his chest to square up on the ball handler. Doesn't reach. Plays strong and plays a LOT quicker than he looks like he can. Always in the right position. Anticipates well.
Basically, it's an absolute clinic on how it's supposed to be done. And he's been guarding the best players in the world.
Basically, it's an absolute clinic on how it's supposed to be done. And he's been guarding the best players in the world.
At this point, I think if they were able to sign him for anything under 4/50 it’s good business.
I am hoping that both sides recognize that they are better with each other and a 4/48 deal can be reached.
It’s astonishing how much better he is this year than last year. He was my least favorite player on the team last year and I honestly thought he’d be traded for scraps just to open a roster spot.
Now he’s a legitimate playoff weapon
I am hoping that both sides recognize that they are better with each other and a 4/48 deal can be reached.
It’s astonishing how much better he is this year than last year. He was my least favorite player on the team last year and I honestly thought he’d be traded for scraps just to open a roster spot.
Now he’s a legitimate playoff weapon
At this point you hope for a TL deal, but the genie is out of the bottle. Unless his agent is a complete moron he asks for Duncan Robinson $$$ and probably settles for 4yr/$60MM extension
RFA is dampening, BUT Brad will get it done because
1. Durant, Kyrie, Giannis, Jrue playoff scalps - Looking forward to him clamping Butler/Bam
2. Game 7 bubble crunch time minutes his rookie year
3. 40%+ from 3 over numerous years that seems to get better during the playoffs
4. Season 2 weight gain was a mistake + corrected (Please add a weight clause)
5. Al Horford replacement value
6. age timelines with JAYLord
7. fits seamlessly next to the Jays
8. not ball-dominant
9. highly intelligent
10. He can credibly guard players like Giannis, Luka, Joker, Zion who are and will continue to be some of the best players in the NBA over the next 5 seasons
@tbb345 nice mea culpa from you and Reggie so far, plenty more on the way...
Not many stayed put on GrantHill last summer. We all had our doubts. Full redemption has been had from Grant's COVID/sophomore season
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It's clear the decision to add weight last season really fucked with bis ability to stay in front of his man and maintain both strength and speed.
Granite indeed.
Granite indeed.