Grady Sizemore DFA'd at last

[benhogan]

Its called misuse, not conspiracy.
 
Nava has been misused by Farrell. Nava is a productive LH bat and a terrible RH bat, its that simple.  Jonny Gomes is a terrific RH bat.
 
Eck, you see where I'm going with this?  Now stay with me cause this gets real complicated. On days we face a LH starter Gomes starts and Nava waits to hit when the opposing manager brings in a RH relief pitcher.
 
Now this is where it gets real exciting, on days the opposing team starts a RH pitcher we reverse it. Nava starts and Gomes waits to pinch hit if the opposing team brings in a LH reliever..
 
Did you get that? misuse not conspiracy is what has gone down

 

[joe dokes]

Rajai could have been your starting CF this season instead of gambling on Grady Sizemore. And this isn't 'hindsight 20/20 crap' either this was a concern of mine and many others here.
 

 
But saying "they overvalued ST statistics" is, and that's what I was talking about.
 
OTOH -- "Rajai could have been your starting CF" is conjecture of the highest order.
 
I get it. They took a chance on a once-elite player who, as it turns out seems to have lost his skills. And some people want to Rohrschach that into "see, this is emblematic of all the myriad ways in which this FO sucks."  Knock yourselves out.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

But saying "they overvalued ST statistics" is, and that's what I was talking about.
 
OTOH -- "Rajai could have been your starting CF" is conjecture of the highest order.
 
I get it. They took a chance on a once-elite player who, as it turns out seems to have lost his skills. And some people want to Rohrschach that into "see, this is emblematic of all the myriad ways in which this FO sucks."  Knock yourselves out.

Rajai Davis is not anyone's starting CF .. While fast he's a complete butcher in the field..He makes a nice backup because of his ability to play all over the outfield poorly and he can steal bases and hit LHs

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

Its called misuse, not conspiracy.
 
Nava has been misused by Farrell. Nava is a productive LH bat and a terrible RH bat, its that simple.  Jonny Gomes is a terrific RH bat.
 
Eck, you see where I'm going with this?  Now stay with me cause this gets real complicated. On days we face a LH starter Gomes starts and Nava waits to hit when the opposing manager brings in a RH relief pitcher.
 
Now this is where it gets real exciting, on days the opposing team starts a RH pitcher we reverse it. Nava starts and Gomes waits to pinch hit if the opposing team brings in a LH reliever..
 
Did you get that? misuse not conspiracy is what has gone down

I'd appreciate you toning down on the condescension. It makes you look like an asshole. You should try to post the way you would speak to people in person. I can assure you that if this conversation were in person your attitude would be different.

Saying that, Nava wasn't hitting anything to begin the year. He's just now starting to rebound. We should see what Farrell does from here.

 

[benhogan]

 
But saying "they overvalued ST statistics" is, and that's what I was talking about.
 
OTOH -- "Rajai could have been your starting CF" is conjecture of the highest order.
 
I get it. They took a chance on a once-elite player who, as it turns out seems to have lost his skills. And some people want to Rohrschach that into "see, this is emblematic of all the myriad ways in which this FO sucks."  Knock yourselves out.

It was a whiff by the Front Office, no big deal. It happens. No one here is saying the reigning World Series Championship team's front office sucks.
 
why is not signing at RHH CF conjecture in the highest order?  it appears like the Front Office has done exactly that in Torres...6 months late in my estimation

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Rajai Davis could not have been the starting CF or even promised that at the time he was signed.  For one, THE RED SOX WEREN'T IN THE MARKET FOR A STARTING CENTER FIELDER.  No matter how much one wants to wishcast differently, it was quite clear that they intended to give JBJ a clean shot at taking the job.  Spending $10M+ and/or committing multiple years to a player isn't giving JBJ that shot.
 
But let's forget what their specific plans were and look at what they had done leading up to when the Tigers signed Davis...they'd let Jacoby Ellsbury walk with little to no attempt to re-sign him.  To an outside observer, say a sharp agent or a conscientious free agent player, one could see that as the Red Sox believing they have something in JBJ and they envision him as their center fielder of the future.  Now the Sox go to Davis and his agent and offer the exact same deal as the Tigers did.  If you're Davis, do you sign with the Red Sox knowing that no matter what they may tell you or promise you about playing time, they have their starting RF and the starting LF platoon returning and a hotshot prospect lurking for CF.  On the other hand, the Tigers have a clear opening in LF and no clear prospects to be concerned with since they traded their best OF prospect for a SS the previous July.
 
Which offer is Davis more likely to take...the one that has a more clear likelihood of playing time without looking over his shoulder, or the one where maybe he's given a starting job but he could well be relegated to a platoon or less by the all star break of season one?
 
Quite simply, this wasn't simply a matter of the Red Sox passing up a chance to sign someone.  They simply weren't an attractive landing spot for a free agent OF with starting aspirations.

 

[radsoxfan]

 
At the very least, this is a win for the medical staff though, right? Having him fully healthy for nearly half a season is pretty impressive considering what he was coming in.

 
Depends what the role of the medical staff in the decision making process is (and I honestly don't know the answer)
 
If their only role is deciding if they think Grady can stay on the field for half a season, then yes, I suppose it's a win.
 
If their role is more complex and they are trying to help determine if he can be effective, then clearly they failed miserably. Just because Grady got on the field doesn't mean he was healthy or anything like the player he was 5 years ago.  Obviously a lot of that is more baseball ops than just the medical staff, though in my opinion for decisions like this, they should be intertwined.
 
Personally, if I'm on that medical staff and gave the go-ahead to sign Grady, I don't think I'd be pleased with the outcome.  The guy can't play.  

 

[AB in DC]

small sample size...17 games please...

 
I think we can trust the Front Office not to treat players as probabilistic events but to (try to) diagnose what is actually happening and what is best for the player in question.  Based on earlier comments, it sounds like the time that Nava had in AAA did him some good.  So this can't be a mark against the FO at all.

 

[Stitch01]

 
Rajai could have been your starting CF this season instead of gambling on Grady Sizemore.  And this isn't 'hindsight 20/20 crap' either this was a concern of mine and many others here.
 

 Posted by benhogan on 19 November 2013 - 08:52 AM in Red Sox Forum

Drek717, on 19 Nov 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:
Agree, go with kids/in-house options. I would add that they could make a trade for another player in June/July of 2014 to fill holes where this strategy hasn't worked out.
 
So with that in mind go after a RHH platoon partner in CF with JBJ this off season, maybe sign Chris Young, Rajai Davis, trade for Denorfia (pipe dream). Give Mike Carp the initial look at first base with Nava backing up and Hassan (and Brentz) working on 1st base skills at AAA.
 
Just think it may be easier to find a first basemen or corner OF that could play first (if Carp, Nava, Hassan, Brentz all don't work out) during the middle of the 2014 season then a RHH CF.

 

Drek's post doesn't support your argument.  He said we shouldn't sign veterans to multi-year deals for '14 where we have in house options.  You are complaining they should have signed Davis (who got two years) instead of Sizemore for one year.

 

[lexrageorge]

 
Depends what the role of the medical staff in the decision making process is (and I honestly don't know the answer)
 
If their only role is deciding if they think Grady can stay on the field for half a season, then yes, I suppose it's a win.
 
If their role is more complex and they are trying to help determine if he can be effective, then clearly they failed miserably. Just because Grady got on the field doesn't mean he was healthy or anything like the player he was 5 years ago.  Obviously a lot of that is more baseball ops than just the medical staff, though in my opinion for decisions like this, they should be intertwined.
 
Personally, if I'm on that medical staff and gave the go-ahead to sign Grady, I don't think I'd be pleased with the outcome.  The guy can't play.  

All the medical staff can do is to determine if he's healthy.  I don't fault the medical staff for not realizing he wasn't going to be able to hit MLB pitching; that's well outside their area of expertise.  Hell, the experts get that wrong all the time with many other players.  
 
I don't fault the decision process to sign Sizemore.  They wanted a backup OF on the cheap, and so they took a flyer on a guy who used to be quite good.  And, in spring training, he looked healthy.  By the end of the spring, he was playing the field every day and looked competent doing it.  I don't believe keeping him on the roster at that point was a mistake, especially after Victorino was headed to the DL.  
 
It didn't work out.  Lots of guys with lots of teams don't work out.  Happens every year.  Julio Lugo didn't work out, but he cost them a lot more and the team was still able to win a World Series.  I don't blame the FO for not anticipating that all of Gomes/Nava/JBJ/Victorino would suck at the plate at the same time.  

 

[benhogan]

Drek's post doesn't support your argument.  He said we shouldn't sign veterans to multi-year deals for '14 where we have in house options.  You are complaining they should have signed Davis (who got two years) instead of Sizemore for one year.

yea it was a bad cut and paste job by me...
 
I was quoting my post from Nov 19th, at the time I was agreeing with Drek that going with in house options was better then signing Ellsbury to that HUGE contract.  My biggest concern last off season was relying completely on JBJ as our CF and also relying on Victorino being healthy for 162 games. I felt at the time that we would benefit from a veteran RH bat that could complement JBJ.  
 
Yes, if I had my druthers at the time I would have liked Rajai for 2 years at $10MM then Grady. 
 
My point was that it wasn't 20/20 hindsight, like Eck had said last night on the game thread and reiterated today. It was a concern last November of mine and others.

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

My point was that it wasn't 20/20 hindsight, like Eck had said last night on the game thread and reiterated today. It was a concern last November of mine and others.

The hindsight comment was directed towards Sizemore not working out. Not the handedness of their 5th OFer.

 

[O Captain! My Captain!]

Rajai Davis is the starting LF for Detroit, and assumably was guaranteed playing time either there or in center. The Red Sox could not make that guarantee, especially not for a two year period. It's one thing to say to a player that between caddying for JBJ against LHP and the inevitable Victorino DL stint, he'd get to start 100 games tops, unless he's just willing to assume terrible play from either of them. Detroit got to tell him that he was their #1 LF and backup CF and that he'd probably be starting ~140 games, and he could look at the roster and see that it was constructed this way. To make the same sort of commitment, the Red Sox would have had to jettison either a LF (Gomes shares handedness but is owed money, while Nava has an option but is the complementary player on a platoon) or JBJ, which wasn't going to happen, and shouldn't have.

 

[MakMan44]

Has anyone even looked at Davis's splits anyway? He was a platoon OFer for the past three seasons, and banking on him as your starting CF was taking just as much of a risk as Sizemore was, only it didn't cost 2/$10.

 

[radsoxfan]

All the medical staff can do is to determine if he's healthy.  I don't fault the medical staff for not realizing he wasn't going to be able to hit MLB pitching; that's well outside their area of expertise.  Hell, the experts get that wrong all the time with many other players.  
   

Entirely reasonable. Hard to blame the medical staff for knowing Grady would suck at baseball.

Having said that, I hope their conversations with the front office are more than just a "thumbs up" or "thumbs down".

There is a difference between being able to stay on the field and being able to successfully play Major League Baseball at a high level. I assume the medical staff mentioned the fact that Grady's knee cartilage is crumbling, and even if he can stay on the field, he might be terrible.

Obviously it was a flier, and the team must have understood there was a good chance it wouldn't work out. I just hope they realize what a longshot it was.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Everything went right in the of last year. No real injuries and everyone met or exceeded expectations. It's the exact opposite this year. Sometimes shit rolls downhill and the Sox are at the bottom of Mt. St. Helens.

 

[Toe Nash]

I disagreed with sending Nava down but it makes decent sense considering the option. What was perplexing was not giving him starts upon his recall even though Sizemore had continued to suck, and Farrell's comments about Gomes basically being the starting left fielder. Well, they would be perplexing if Nava hadn't been benched in the world series for not growing a beard as well.

Fortunately he seems to have come to his senses but it's reasonable to be at least annoyed with JFs handling of Nava.

 

[theapportioner]

Maybe it's selective/faulty memory on my part, but it seems like we haven't had great success with oft-injured player reclamation projects since... Bill Mueller? Guys like Wade Miller, Andrew Bailey, and Grady Sizemore have been high profile busts. I know they don't cost a ton in terms of money or prospects (although Josh Reddick turned out decent), but the return value here seems to have been pretty poor. Maybe the Sox need to recalibrate their thinking towards these players, given the additional opportunity cost of not playing say, promising minor leaguers because their spots are blocked by these declining vets. Which is interesting as the Red Sox seem to be one of the more risk averse teams now relative to their budget.
 
Can people think of a team that has had a good run with these reclamation projects?

 

[MakMan44]

The A's?

 

[benhogan]

Has anyone even looked at Davis's splits anyway? He was a platoon OFer for the past three seasons, and banking on him as your starting CF was taking just as much of a risk as Sizemore was, only it didn't cost 2/$10.

Yes, he hits LHP. Yes we looked at it during the off season. 
 
Rajai and Sizemore were no where close to the same risk level as each other entering the season.  Sizemore had not played since 2011.
 
Rajai VS LHP
2014  302/348/492/840
2013 319/383/474/857
2012 285/345/437/782
2011 288/367/463/830
 
plus Rajai steals bases so when he wasn't starting he could be used in late/tight situations to pinch run.
 
The team had just saved themselves $150MM by not re-upping Jacoby, they should have invested more capital in outfield depth in the off season. They went cheap (Sizemore) and it cost us.

 

[Stitch01]

Yeah, Im still not really pining to have Rajai Davis here for the next year and a half. 
 
Davis has played 22 games in CF in the last 2 and half seasons and three games there this year and you argued in the offseason thread that we shouldn't be spending money on an extra corner OF, so not sure where the I told you so instinct is coming from here. 

 

[MakMan44]

You wanted the FO to give a 2 year deal to a guy on the wrong side of the platoon? He's not all that different from Gomes and they thought they had Brentz/Hassan in AAA. I mean, I guess you have a point with the speed but I still don't see it as a good allocation of money when they conceivably had 3 different OF to fill the role you're suggesting Davis would have had. 
 
EDIT: That's not to mention you completely missed my point. I was talking about his awful numbers against RHP for the past 3 seasons. I was talking about risk because I assumed you were talking about Davis having an expanded role, which would include facing RHP. Davis was and is redundant as an OF platoon player with Gomes on the roster, which is what lead me to that belief. 

 

[benhogan]

Yeah, Im still not really pining to have Rajai Davis here for the next year and a half. 
 
Davis has played 22 games in CF in the last 2 and half seasons and three games there this year and you argued in the offseason thread that we shouldn't be spending money on an extra corner OF, so not sure where the I told you so instinct is coming from here. 

this is what I said in November:
 

So with that in mind go after a RHH platoon partner in CF with JBJ this off season, maybe sign Chris Young, Rajai Davis, trade for Denorfia (pipe dream). Give Mike Carp the initial look at first base with Nava backing up and Hassan (and Brentz) working on 1st base skills at AAA.

 

You wanted the FO to give a 2 year deal to a guy on the wrong side of the platoon? He's not all that different from Gomes and they thought they had Brentz/Hassan in AAA. I mean, I guess you have a point with the speed but I still don't see it as a good allocation of money when they conceivably had 3 different OF to fill the role you're suggesting Davis would have had. 

I wanted an OF of Nava, Gomes, JBJ, Victorino and Rajai Davis (or Denofria or Chris Young).
 
Davis would have platooned with JBJ, the right side of the platoon, and backed up Victorino.
 
Sox are playing Holt in CF tonight and they started Grady in CF this season and Grady was an absolute statue out there. I don't think its a stretch to think the Sox would have been comfortable with Davis in CF when we faced LHP.
 
Its all moot, cause it didn't happen and its not happening. Would of, could of, should of...

 

[MakMan44]

It didn't happen because 2 straight platoons in the OF is just a horrible idea. Man, I can't believe I missed this discussion in the offseason. I must have been on a high from the WS.  

 

[benhogan]

It didn't happen because 2 straight platoons in the OF is just a horrible idea. Man, I can't believe I missed this discussion in the offseason. I must have been on a high from the WS.  

yea OK, whatever.
 
agree to disagree

 

[BosRedSox5]

It didn't happen because 2 straight platoons in the OF is just a horrible idea. Man, I can't believe I missed this discussion in the offseason. I must have been on a high from the WS.  

Not only that but how hard is it to understand that Davis clearly didn't want to be a part timer.

The team went with Sizemore as flier and possibly as a 4th OF. He hit extremely well in ST, earned a job and injuries/slumps caused us to stick with him a lot longer than anyone wanted. Saying we should have gotten someone else is just hindsight being 20/20, when that someone is Davis, you're just dreaming.

 

[Stitch01]

I'd still today rather have signed Sizemore than signed Davis to 2 years and 20 million to be the short side of platoon as a 33 year old CF. That was always an awful idea, Davis is likely a corner OF at this point, and the problem with the Sox OF isn't a platoon split in CF

 

[benhogan]

I'd still today rather have signed Sizemore than signed Davis to 2 years and 20 million to be the short side of platoon as a 33 year old CF. That was always an awful idea, Davis is likely a corner OF at this point, and the problem with the Sox OF isn't a platoon split in CF

Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinions.
 
Rajai signed for $10MM for 2 years. That's $5MM per year.  
 
But I know, you'd still rather have Grady.   Got ya

 

[Stitch01]

Bah, typing as I eat, 2 and 20 sure would have been insane! But yeah, still wouldn't go back and sign Davis even in the unlikely case he'd take the part time role. Less upside, higher cost, and not really CF insurance since if the Sox were contending and Bradley sucked they'd still be looking for CF help that could play d and or hit righties. I might swap him for Gomes as the platoon guy since he could play CF in a pinch and some right field, but otherwise yeah, no bid.

Edit: might swap him in hindsight with Victorino injured and Bradley sucking. Before year, no

 

[KillerBs]

Some of us saw the obvious need for a right handed CF/RF in the off season. Some of us also perceived the log jammed redundancy of Carp and Nava on the same team. The task was to deal one of them (plus) for the required CF/RF (ie eg, Denorfia, Tabata). Not an easy task but still the task. Instead Ben signed Grady Sizemore, which while widely lauded as no risk here, made no sense to some of us from the outset. It took us 50 games to find out Grady really was done and in the meantime we are left to wonder the effect on Bradley and Nava. In the meantime we still need the CF/RF. The front office has made a lot of great moves in the last few years; there is no harm in pointing out they blew it here.

 

[yecul]

Taking a calculated risk with a back end roster spot is a good move, IMO. Having a mix of stars, young kids, reliable if unspectacular vets and a couple gambles is a fine approach.

There is a difference between blowing it and having something not pan out. I see this as more latter than former.

 

[MakMan44]

Some of us saw the obvious need for a right handed CF/RF in the off season. Some of us also perceived the log jammed redundancy of Carp and Nava on the same team. The task was to deal one of them (plus) for the required CF/RF (ie eg, Denorfia, Tabata). Not an easy task but still the task. Instead Ben signed Grady Sizemore, which while widely lauded as no risk here, made no sense to some of us from the outset. It took us 50 games to find out Grady really was done and in the meantime we are left to wonder the effect on Bradley and Nava. In the meantime we still need the CF/RF. The front office has made a lot of great moves in the last few years; there is no harm in pointing out they blew it here.

What effect would that be?

 

[DanoooME]

this is what I said in November:
 

So with that in mind go after a RHH platoon partner in CF with JBJ this off season, maybe sign Chris Young, Rajai Davis, trade for Denorfia (pipe dream). Give Mike Carp the initial look at first base with Nava backing up and Hassan (and Brentz) working on 1st base skills at AAA.

 
I wanted an OF of Nava, Gomes, JBJ, Victorino and Rajai Davis (or Denofria or Chris Young).
 
Davis would have platooned with JBJ, the right side of the platoon, and backed up Victorino.
 
Sox are playing Holt in CF tonight and they started Grady in CF this season and Grady was an absolute statue out there. I don't think its a stretch to think the Sox would have been comfortable with Davis in CF when we faced LHP.
 
Its all moot, cause it didn't happen and its not happening. Would of, could of, should of...

 
I've posted this article before about Davis and his preference of role.  Maybe this will help get the point across.
 

Since joining the Blue Jays prior to the 2011 season, Davis has been primarily regarded as a part-time player. That's something he hopes to change this offseason, as playing time appears to be his No. 1 priority when it comes to choosing his next destination.
 

 

[theapportioner]

My question is if the Red Sox, and some of us here, are miscalibrating the risk/benefit ratio to signing these damaged-goods reclamation project players. Certainly there was a need to fill an outfield spot with Ellsbury leaving and JBJ being an uncertainty. I don't deny that. Also Sizemore, like guys like Wade Miller, Eric Gagne, and Andrew Bailey, had runs of tremendous success but also significant injuries before we signed them. And none of them really worked out. Perhaps we are biased by their past success to the point where we unrealistically expect them to bounce back (maybe we think it's a 50/50 chance because of their previous awesomeness, when in reality it's a 20% chance they would bounce back or be of "value").
 
Sizemore, like the others, didn't cost much in money or years in the grand scheme of things, and probably didn't account for more than -1 to -2 WAR during their tenures, but there may be better value in people who don't have a history of debilitating injury. Also, the opportunity cost of not signing more "reliable" players or introducing promising prospects earlier should be part of the calculus.

 

[kieckeredinthehead]

Some of us saw the obvious need for a right handed CF/RF in the off season. Some of us also perceived the log jammed redundancy of Carp and Nava on the same team. The task was to deal one of them (plus) for the required CF/RF (ie eg, Denorfia, Tabata). Not an easy task but still the task. Instead Ben signed Grady Sizemore, which while widely lauded as no risk here, made no sense to some of us from the outset. It took us 50 games to find out Grady really was done and in the meantime we are left to wonder the effect on Bradley and Nava. In the meantime we still need the CF/RF. The front office has made a lot of great moves in the last few years; there is no harm in pointing out they blew it here.

Actually, go back and read the thread. There were complaints that there wasn't room on the 40 man (result: Villarreal was demoted), or concerns that they would trade Nava or Carp. Yecul was the only one to rightly point out that the real downside was the opportunity cost - they waste games on Sizemore when Nava or Carp could be playing. That was what ended up happening. The real winner of the thread goes to MakMan, who responded by saying if Sizemore sucks and is getting too much playing time, this team has bigger problems. Bingo.

 

[KillerBs]

It is impossible to say but I do not rule out the possibility that it did not help Bradley or Nava to compete with, and then have it declared they lost the job based on very scant evidence to, Sizemore.

 

[Plympton91]

It's mid June, and while Sizemore sucked (612 OPS); so have JBJ (591) and Victorino (627). As well as Nava (597), and Carp (603). Think about it; there are three OF who have accumulated a total of 438 plate appearances, and each put up a worse OPS than Grady. Awful. While it would have been nice to bring in someone better than Sizemore (Chris Young was real popular, he has a 604 OPS), who expected that every OF on the team would be terrible?

You keep bringing this up as if those things are unrelated. Maybe part of the reason why Carp and Nava were hitting so poorly is that they were getting less consistent at bats because of the Sizemore experiment.

 

[theapportioner]

You keep bringing this up as if those things are unrelated. Maybe part of the reason why Carp and Nava were hitting so poorly is that they were getting less consistent at bats because of the Sizemore experiment.

 
This actually is consistent with my worry about the opportunity costs of playing a guy like Sizemore for so long. Hard to quantify but important to consider.

 

[Plympton91]

Saying that, Nava wasn't hitting anything to begin the year.

Do you understand that making a decision based on a two-week sample size in anathema to everything this organization is supposed to stand for?

He's just now starting to rebound. We should see what Farrell does from here.

No, he started to rebound about three days after he was sent to AAA. I understand he said he had to make some adjustments, but normally the guy who finished 10th in the league in batting average and 6th in the league in OBP gets to make adjustments to a 2-week slump while still on the major league roster.

Look around baseball. I'm sure Daniel Nava isn't the only player who had a good 2013 and then had a bad first two weeks of 2014. He probably was the only one sent to the minors in order to make room for a player who hasn't been effective since last decade though.

 

[joe dokes]

You keep bringing this up as if those things are unrelated. Maybe part of the reason why Carp and Nava were hitting so poorly is that they were getting less consistent at bats because of the Sizemore experiment.

 
Nava started all but 3 of the first 20 games before he got optioned.

 

[Plympton91]

 
Nava started all but 3 of the first 20 games before he got optioned.

Last I checked getting optioned because of a two-week slump makes it difficult to improve your major league slash line. Maybe you know of counterexamples?

 

[joe dokes]

Do you understand that making a decision based on a two-week sample size in anathema to everything this organization is supposed to stand for?


No, he started to rebound about three days after he was sent to AAA. I understand he said he had to make some adjustments, but normally the guy who finished 10th in the league in batting average and 6th in the league in OBP gets to make adjustments to a 2-week slump while still on the major league roster.

Look around baseball. I'm sure Daniel Nava isn't the only player who had a good 2013 and then had a bad first two weeks of 2014. He probably was the only one sent to the minors in order to make room for a player who hasn't been effective since last decade though.

 
I suppose "rebound" is relative. His last 10 at AAA were 235/325/382
 
He had options. That's why *he* was sent down. His suckage made it easier. It was either that or release a guy after 3 weeks of the season. And not that it matters much, but it was 3 weeks not 2.

 

[KillerBs]

But if they hadn't signed Grady and made sure he got a good chance he didn't deserve, they would not have had to send Nava down. That is the point.

It is remarkable that even in this case folks won't acknowledge a mistake by BC. In Cherington we trust indeed. WS champs 2013 after all.

 

[Plympton91]

 
I suppose "rebound" is relative. His last 10 at AAA were 235/325/382
 
He had options. That's why *he* was sent down. His suckage made it easier. It was either that or release a guy after 3 weeks of the season. And not that it matters much, but it was 3 weeks not 2.

3 weeks, 2 weeks, last 10 at AAA; all you're doing is citing small sample sizes. They took a guy who hit .300 in 500 plate appearances in 2013; .280 if you adjust to his career average BABip; and gave his job in 2014 to a player who was last an effective major league ballplayer in first half of 2009.

Eh, seems unlikely. Carp was hardly a regular last year (although he sucked for most of the 2nd half). Nava was lousy when starting, and then got less playing time (usually how it works). There were issues with his swing, he went down and worked on them, and now seems OK. You also don't mention JBJ, who has been the biggest problem of all.

Well, I agree about JBJ, but I didn't mention him because he's the only healthy player in the organization above single - A capable of playing CF in the major leagues. That he hasn't even been better offensively than Quentin Berry might have been is shocking.

 

[joe dokes]

Last I checked getting optioned because of a two-week slump makes it difficult to improve your major league slash line. Maybe you know of counterexamples?

 
As long as you keep calling it "getting optioned because of a two-week slump" you may very well be correct about counter examples.
 
  If you expand it to, say, "players who had options and became a fall guy," there might be others. 

 

[Stitch01]

But if they hadn't signed Grady and made sure he got a good chance he didn't deserve, they would not have had to send Nava down. That is the point.
It is remarkable that even in this case folks won't acknowledge a mistake by BC. In Cherington we trust indeed. WS champs 2013 after all.

Meh, I still think it was a reasonable gamble given the available options. Its not clear moving Carp or Nava plus for Tabata or Donorfia or whoever was ever a real option. They wouldn't have had to send Nava down if they didn't have Sizemore and had moved Carp for something and added another OF. Otherwise they'd have has the same log jam. Maybe they cost themselves a win through opportunity cost by playing Sizemore (and I think what they got was pretty much worst case).

I think the upside was worth it but maybe, as suggested up thread, the team is miscalibrating that risk and it was a small mistake.

Bradley and bottom 5 percentile performances from Nava and Victorino are the problems. I don't think there was a small OF move to make that could meaningfully cover for that available.

 

[joe dokes]

But if they hadn't signed Grady and made sure he got a good chance he didn't deserve, they would not have had to send Nava down. That is the point.

It is remarkable that even in this case folks won't acknowledge a mistake by BC. In Cherington we trust indeed. WS champs 2013 after all.

 
Sizemore didnt work out. No one is disputing that. How was signing him a mistake? They were right that he was healthy. They didn't anticipate healthy suckage. (some did here, but the majority view was "in the unlikely event he's healthy, this could be good."
They gave him roughly  2.5 months and then cut him. Two probably could have been enough. So Nava lost 3 weeks of service time? Is that what people are so upset about. That they made a mockery of Daniel Nava's career?
 
Why didn't Sizemore deserve a chance?

 

[radsoxfan]

 
Sizemore didnt work out. No one is disputing that. How was signing him a mistake? They were right that he was healthy. 

 
People need to stop assuming he was healthy.  He didn't go on the DL, that doesn't mean he was healthy.  If his defense is any indication, Grady had reached some "new normal" in which he is just chronically diminished.  I'm not sure that counts as healthy, at least in any useful sense of the word. 
 
Dwyane Wade played every game in the NBA playoffs this year. His knees are still falling apart. 

 

[Plympton91]

 
Sizemore didnt work out. No one is disputing that. How was signing him a mistake? They were right that he was healthy. They didn't anticipate healthy suckage. (some did here, but the majority view was "in the unlikely event he's healthy, this could be good."
They gave him roughly  2.5 months and then cut him. Two probably could have been enough. So Nava lost 3 weeks of service time? Is that what people are so upset about. That they made a mockery of Daniel Nava's career?
 
Why didn't Sizemore deserve a chance?

He deserved a chance to be the starting CF, which is the position that the Red Sox had open. Once he proved unable to play CF everyday defensively, they should have DFAed him and left their LF platoon from 2013 intact.

People can take the SABR "Playing Sizemore over Nava only makes a difference of 0.464320313298754 expected wins," but the Red Sox have 15 losses by 1 run, so it's entirely possible that several well-placed hits would have made a difference in several ballgames.

 

[Super Nomario]

This is re-writing history. He *only* made the team because Ortiz was going on the DL.  He was with the team for 14 games in April, until April 17. Ortiz's 1st game was 4/20

JBJ came back for a week in late May and another in July  when Victorino had injury issues.
 
The idea that they overvalue ST performance is unsupported hindsight.

It's true that JBJ wouldn't have been on the roster without Ortiz' injury, but that wasn't the only reason Bradley made the team. They had other options. They elected to go with a guy who had 61 games above A-ball because he had a hot spring.