Grade the Red Sox trade deadline

How would you grade the additions of Schwarber, Austin Davis and and Hansen Robles?

  • A (Pumped! They killed it)

    Votes: 4 0.9%
  • B (Pretty happy. Did what they had to do)

    Votes: 122 27.8%
  • C (Eh. No First baseman? No SP?!)

    Votes: 199 45.3%
  • D (Really unimpressed)

    Votes: 104 23.7%
  • F (Should almost get fired)

    Votes: 10 2.3%

  • Total voters
    439

sean1562

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Since the All Star Break the Yankees are 17-8(.680), the Rays are 16-8(667), and the Blue Jays are 17-9(.680). The Red Sox are 11-14(.440). We have had a bad stretch while all our rivals are surging but we are still in the lead for the WC. Sure, if all three of those teams keep winning games at a pace that would be significantly better than how the Giants have played all year and we keep winning games at a pace like the Rockies we are screwed. With Sale and Houck returning and Schwarber on the way, I don't see that as particularly likely. We have had a bad stretch. We haven't all of a sudden become the 8th worst team in baseball. This team will start winning more games. The Yankees offense still sucks.
 

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Bigger picture, I've been wondering if the Schwarber acquisition is as much about a desire to move on from JDM. He won't opt out, but he'll be on a one year deal and could be moved with some type of subsidy. Schwarber is 5 years younger--maybe they'd like to sign him to a 3 year deal to be the regular DH/sometimes OF/occasional 1B. He was having a really good season before the injury, but his market value was low enough heading into the season that he took a 1/$7M deal from the Nats. Which is to say that I have absolutely no idea what his market would be after this season. But I don't think this would be an outrageous strategy.
 

johnnywayback

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I admit to not being as up to date on prospects as I was before but isn’t that second package (Aldo/Gilberto) for Bryant an absolute slam dunk for the Sox?

Gilberto is the 6th ranked prospect in a very mediocre system and Aldo just got traded for Schwarber and who knows how many games he will actually play in a Sox uniform
I guess it depends on how much you want to pay for a rental. Jimenez has an elite tool (speed), a potential plus hit tool, and can play all three OF positions, which means he is likely going to be a major leaguer even if he doesn’t develop much further. So that would have been too rich for my blood.

As for preferring it to the Schwarber deal, I would say that it’s not ridiculous, but given that Bryant would have pushed us over the LT and wouldn’t add balance to a very RHH lineup, I would rather have the Schwarber deal unless I was absolutely sure Schwarber couldn’t handle 1B.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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but I just don't agree with the vitriol toward the Schwarber acquisition. Neither Rizzo (hadn't been hitting in 2021) nor Bryant (RH and not a 1B) were the perfect solution.
I think that we really need to tamper down our expectations of Kyle Schwarber. On baseball-reference, his career similarity score is Adam Duvall and his age-28 SS is Rob Deer. He had a huge month for the Nats in June, but had a putrid two months in April and May. And he's hurt. And he's going to be playing out of position. Do I think that Schwarber is better than Rob Deer? Yes. Do I think he's better than Bobby Dalbec? Yes. Do I think that he's going to make the lineup better? A little bit -- and I'm hope I'm wrong about this prediction, but Kyle Schwarber has a lot of nicks against him and he hasn't taken a swing yet.

I think that he can help the Red Sox, I'm just not going to bet the house on it quite yet.

I'd have been a lot more comfortable with Bryant and Rizzo. (And I wasn't a Rizzo guy at all, my first base Christmas list was: Aguilar, Santana, Schoop or Cron; I realize that some of these players may not have been available, though I tend to think that if you went big, you probably could have gotten Aguilar, who is cost-controlled for two years, I believe).
 

chawson

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One thing I’ve been thinking about is how the GMs of two of the deadline’s biggest would-be sellers, the Rockies and the Diamondbacks, essentially sat out the trading deadline. Both seemed like ideal trading partners for the Sox, but each were out of office.

Arizona’s Mike Hazen knows the Sox system very well of course, and reportedly has a good relationship with Bloom. But Hazen stepped away from the team in June because of his wife’s illness. I have no idea how that affected their operations, but I don’t know why they wouldn’t move guys like Asdrubal Cabrera or Tyler Clippard, both of whom would be useful to Boston. Merrill Kelly and Ketel Marte generated a lot of interest too, but both stayed. Bloom had already traded twice with Rockies GM Dan O’Dowd in since coming to Boston, but O’Dowd was fired in May, and his replacement did pretty much nothing. I wonder if O’Dowd might have been more apt to trade any of their obviously tradeable players (Story, Cron, Bard, Gray, Freeland) or the other more valuable ones (Márquez) to facilitate a rebuild.

There were still a good amount of tear-it-down sellers (MIN, CHC, WSH, TEX) and others trading key players on expiring contracts (DET, CLE, TEX, PIT, MIA). But everyone I read anticipated the deadline to be a major buyer’s market…and then it wasn’t. ARI traded Escobar to MIL and COL shipped Givens to CIN—minor moves—but I wonder if those FO shakeups kind of temporarily spoiled the good relations Bloom had with those GMs. Their relative inactivity really seemed to constrain supply leaguewide.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Bigger picture, I've been wondering if the Schwarber acquisition is as much about a desire to move on from JDM. He won't opt out, but he'll be on a one year deal and could be moved with some type of subsidy. Schwarber is 5 years younger--maybe they'd like to sign him to a 3 year deal to be the regular DH/sometimes OF/occasional 1B. He was having a really good season before the injury, but his market value was low enough heading into the season that he took a 1/$7M deal from the Nats. Which is to say that I have absolutely no idea what his market would be after this season. But I don't think this would be an outrageous strategy.
I would guess not; I don’t know that having Schwarber for a month or two gives them much of a head start on potentially bringing him back. It seems unlikely that he would opt in unless he’s hurt, at which point Sox would decline.

I also think there’s a chance JD does opt out. He will be 34 and owed $19M. Given labor uncertainty and potential for universal DH, does he gamble that he can get 3/$50 or so?

He will likely be coming off a ~900 ops, 2-3 WAR season. I think he opts out if he thinks he can get a multi-year deal…shouldn’t he be able to get that?
 

Sandman5756

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Right now this team is dreadful. The acquisitions have contributed to that rather than helping. It is hard to believe we gave up prospects for what we got. However, in their defense, the regulars haven't been playing well either. And the people who have stunk all year, have continued to stink. Marwin Gonzalez does not look like a major league ballplayer, and yet, they keep playing him.
The Sox can't seem to add on runs when they get runners in scoring position and have the lead, and they can't seem to prevent others from getting two out hits with runners in scoring position. So they are the reverse of what they were in the first half of the season. These last five series have been embarrassingly bad.
 

Sandman5756

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10 days ago I graded the deadline as a D. Guess I was wildly optimistic.
I graded it a D too and got raked over the coals for it. Part of my reasoning is that in our division, the four teams that were behind us at the time all made impressive moves that radically transformed their teams while we got two relievers who are no better than our fifth or sixth option out of the bullpen and an injured player who does not play first base. (Remember when a lot of baseball people were conjecturing that the Yanks would be sellers? Now that have passed us in the wild card standings. Toronto, likely, is next.

It could change. Schwarber may get hot. Dalbec has shown signs. We now have Sale and Houck in the rotation and that means Richards and Perez, (usually good in their first three innings) are in the bullpen. However, the Yankees have new life, and their acquisitions have basically won five games for them that they would have lost. The Rays ... (I don't really know how they do it, but Cruz improves their line-up) and Toronto has improved with Hand and Berrios.
 

BaseballJones

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On the Dalbec improving point....Here's his last 15 games:

.342/.419/.763/1.182, 2 2b, 1 3b, 4 hr, 14 rbi

So yeah, I'd say he's heating up. Obviously if he hits like THIS, he's a fantastically useful player.
 

Niastri

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On the Dalbec improving point....Here's his last 15 games:

.342/.419/.763/1.182, 2 2b, 1 3b, 4 hr, 14 rbi

So yeah, I'd say he's heating up. Obviously if he hits like THIS, he's a fantastically useful player.
If you knock a hundred off that line's AVG and OBP and two hundred off that SLG and you still have a useful player with nearly a .900 ops.

Now, since Dalbec is a bad first baseman, can we live with .220/.300/.400/.700 for most of the year with two 15 game stretches like his current one?

He isn't going to be Miguel Cabrera very long.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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On the Dalbec improving point....Here's his last 15 games:

.342/.419/.763/1.182, 2 2b, 1 3b, 4 hr, 14 rbi

So yeah, I'd say he's heating up. Obviously if he hits like THIS, he's a fantastically useful player.
Posted this in the other thread, but it’s a mirage. He had three good games, games against miserable pitching in which the Sox scored a combined 44 runs in. Other than that, his month has been on par with the rest of the season.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Well yes if you take out the games where he hit good, Dalbec hasn't hit good.
Of course, but when a guys only production in the last few months comes in games where the team averages 15 runs, i think putting it into context is helpful.

His last 15 games is 9 games of little production, 3 phenomenal games, and three of nothing.

Last 3: 1/7, 0 BB, 3 K
Three Prior: 7/11, 2 2b, 1 3b, 3 hr, 1 bb, 0 k
9 before: 6/24, 1 hr, 2 bb, 10 k

I don’t see any reason to think that the three games are really predictive of him figuring anything out, I’m afraid he will continue to be largely useless against power pitchers, on the road, vs righties, etc.
 

BaseballJones

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Yes of course we can take it with a grain of salt, but don't forget that EVERYONE on the team also got to play vs. the Orioles. And every other team in the league gets games against them as well. They count for THEM, so they should count for Dalbec.

In his three games before the Baltimore series, he went 4-7 with 6 rbi.
In his two games after the Baltimore series, he went 1-3.

So in the games surrounding the Baltimore series, he went 5-10 with 6 rbi.
 

ngruz25

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Since you're quoting Dalbec's RBI total, it should probably be pointed out that three of those came on a misplayed routine pop fly that turned into a triple.
 

BaseballJones

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Since you're quoting Dalbec's RBI total, it should probably be pointed out that three of those came on a misplayed routine pop fly that turned into a triple.
Lucky hits count too. Not just for Dalbec, but for everyone else too.
 

scottyno

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Schwarzer is massively outplaying all 3 of the Yankees deadline acquisitions combined
 

cantor44

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Schwarzer is massively outplaying all 3 of the Yankees deadline acquisitions combined
Schwarber is a better hitter than Rizzo at this point. There's no argument there. The issue was he was hurt and unable to play for an incredibly crucial stretch of the schedule (in which the Red Sox lost the division lead). And that, maybe until today, he's been unable to play first base, and subsequently his insertion in the line up required JD to go to the outfield, which has degraded the defense. And it's kept Dalbec on the field ....

If Schwarber wasn't hurt and was able to start playing an adequate first base a few days after July 30 ... then yeah, it would have been a great deadline move ...
 

crow216

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Schwarzer is massively outplaying all 3 of the Yankees deadline acquisitions combined
I know why you're saying this, but there is more to it than the numbers. Defensively, this team needed Rizzo badly and he has been an absolute stud. He was also essentially responsible for the first 3 wins as soon as we got him. Gallo has had a disappointing bat but again, his fit into the lineup and his defense is perfect. With both Rizzo and Gallo adding lefties to the Yankees, they've made the entire lineup better. Virtually everyone has improved.

On the pitching side, Heany wasn't meant to be anything more than a stopgap until the cavalry showed up but take a look at Clay Holmes who has a .5 whip as a Yankee.

Needless to say, if you have a fully powered Schwarber, he's gonna put up more WAR than Rizzo and Gallo. But the impact Rizzo and Gallo have on the stabilization of the roster is something that can't be valued. I mean, the Yankees were legitimately putting players in the lineup every day nobody ever heard of because of injuries and they could not score, period.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I know why you're saying this, but there is more to it than the numbers. Defensively, this team needed Rizzo badly and he has been an absolute stud. He was also essentially responsible for the first 3 wins as soon as we got him. Gallo has had a disappointing bat but again, his fit into the lineup and his defense is perfect. With both Rizzo and Gallo adding lefties to the Yankees, they've made the entire lineup better. Virtually everyone has improved.

On the pitching side, Heany wasn't meant to be anything more than a stopgap until the cavalry showed up but take a look at Clay Holmes who has a .5 whip as a Yankee.

Needless to say, if you have a fully powered Schwarber, he's gonna put up more WAR than Rizzo and Gallo. But the impact Rizzo and Gallo have on the stabilization of the roster is something that can't be valued. I mean, the Yankees were legitimately putting players in the lineup every day nobody ever heard of because of injuries and they could not score, period.
Rizzo and Gallo coming aboard definitely correlates with the Yankees catching fire, but it's obviously impossible to prove any direct relation. The Sox started playing like absolute turds when Marwin Gonzalez got released (okay... sure that's a hyperbolic attempt to make an equivalency). The Yankees were going to play better.... much better. There was just absolutely no possibility that they were going to end up behind the Blue Jays in 4th place. Meanwhile, the opposite is true of the Red Sox.... there was no way they were going to continue to play as well as they had prior to the AS Break. Seattle is another team that just HAD to start losing more than they had.
The Blue Jays are the biggest question mark to me, and really The Twins too, who I thought would be fighting the White Sox for the division at the beginning of the season.

Not taking anything away from adding Rizzo to the team though. He was a great addition and those 3 wins could have been just the Drano to unclog the rest of the team.
 

ledsox

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After his great July, Rizzo is 6 for 45 this month with 1 xbh. He has only played 12 games (we know why). Yeah, defense is big but did Torres going down have anything to do with the Yankee D improving?

I think both Cashman and Bloom did what they had to do under the circumstances. NY needed the lefty bats and defensive upgrades. Those 2 bats will probably heat up again, unfortunately.

Bloom with a far lesser ml system got the big lefty bat and of course had Sale and Arroro coming back. And like he said, they have a plan with the system and they stuck to it and I’m good with that.
 

scottyno

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Schwarber is a better hitter than Rizzo at this point. There's no argument there. The issue was he was hurt and unable to play for an incredibly crucial stretch of the schedule (in which the Red Sox lost the division lead). And that, maybe until today, he's been unable to play first base, and subsequently his insertion in the line up required JD to go to the outfield, which has degraded the defense. And it's kept Dalbec on the field ....

If Schwarber wasn't hurt and was able to start playing an adequate first base a few days after July 30 ... then yeah, it would have been a great deadline move ...
And Rizzo got Covid and missed what would have been that same crucial stretch
 

scottyno

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I know why you're saying this, but there is more to it than the numbers. Defensively, this team needed Rizzo badly and he has been an absolute stud. He was also essentially responsible for the first 3 wins as soon as we got him. Gallo has had a disappointing bat but again, his fit into the lineup and his defense is perfect. With both Rizzo and Gallo adding lefties to the Yankees, they've made the entire lineup better. Virtually everyone has improved.
Giving up 4 total runs in 3 games was pretty responsible for winning those games too
 

cantor44

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And Rizzo got Covid and missed what would have been that same crucial stretch
Yes, but that was not something that could have been anticipated, as Rizzo was fine at the time of the trade. If he had COVID at the time of the trade, then sure it correlates. Bloom traded for a guy who was injured, with an uncertain return date, but at minimum would miss two weeks ...
 

YTF

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Yes, but that was not something that could have been anticipated, as Rizzo was fine at the time of the trade. If he had COVID at the time of the trade, then sure it correlates. Bloom traded for a guy who was injured, with an uncertain return date, but at minimum would miss two weeks ...
So let me play devil's advocate for a minute. If we're to discount things that could not be anticipated at the time of the trade, the fact that Schwarber's yet to play an inning at 1B has no relevance in this thread, correct?
 

scottyno

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Yes, but that was not something that could have been anticipated, as Rizzo was fine at the time of the trade. If he had COVID at the time of the trade, then sure it correlates. Bloom traded for a guy who was injured, with an uncertain return date, but at minimum would miss two weeks ...
There were people on this forum saying they would be leery of trading for an unvaxxed guy because that could happen and Rizzo was publicly unvaxxed, so I'd say it pretty clearly could have been anticipated.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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So let me play devil's advocate for a minute. If we're to discount things that could not be anticipated at the time of the trade, the fact that Schwarber's yet to play an inning at 1B has no relevance in this thread, correct?
But Schwarber was hurt and had never played first, so the fact that he hasn’t played first yet isn’t all that surprising.

All that people remember is how a team finishes, Schwarber outperforming Rizzo is kind of “more days in first place” thing, who cares? Does anyone fondly remember Cliff Floyd’s days with the team?

I mean, Nomar outhit Cabrera in 04 (and Mientkiewicz was awful) after the trade but I’ve never heard it brought up.
 

scottyno

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But Schwarber was hurt and had never played first, so the fact that he hasn’t played first yet isn’t all that surprising.

All that people remember is how a team finishes, Schwarber outperforming Rizzo is kind of “more days in first place” thing, who cares? Does anyone fondly remember Cliff Floyd’s days with the team?

I mean, Nomar outhit Cabrera in 04 (and Mientkiewicz was awful) after the trade but I’ve never heard it brought up.
So Bloom screwed up by getting Schwarber and not Rizzo, but if he got Rizzo and not Schwarber they'd be in the same spot, which means he'd have screwed that up too?
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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So Bloom screwed up by getting Schwarber and not Rizzo, but if he got Rizzo and not Schwarber they'd be in the same spot, which means he'd have screwed that up too?
I think that Bloom could have picked up Schwarber AND a first baseman. He also should have picked up a couple of bullpen arms that aren’t cooked.
 

scottyno

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I think that Bloom could have picked up Schwarber AND a first baseman. He also should have picked up a couple of bullpen arms that aren’t cooked.
That's a lot of things to trade for in a sellers market with a mediocre farm system. Especially when there weren't even many of those moved at all. Rizzo was the only 1b dealt.
 

cantor44

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So let me play devil's advocate for a minute. If we're to discount things that could not be anticipated at the time of the trade, the fact that Schwarber's yet to play an inning at 1B has no relevance in this thread, correct?
Maybe I'm not following your logic. Schwarber not playing first base seems like an extension of the very reasons he was an imperfect fit: he was both injured and had essentially never played there before (and is generally not a great fielder). For all of those reasons, his not playing first was a distinct possibility given existing factors.

Rizzo getting COVID is more random (yes, I know he's unvaccinated, but so is JD and he hasn't gotten, etc).

That is, Schwarber not playing first is a result of factors that preexisted at the time of the trade. Rizzo getting COVID was not.
 

scottyno

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Maybe I'm not following your logic. Schwarber not playing first base seems like an extension of the very reasons he was an imperfect fit: he was both injured and had essentially never played there before (and is generally not a great fielder). For all of those reasons, his not playing first was a distinct possibility given existing factors.

Rizzo getting COVID is more random (yes, I know he's unvaccinated, but so is JD and he hasn't gotten, etc).

That is, Schwarber not playing first is a result of factors that preexisted at the time of the trade. Rizzo getting COVID was not.
Schwarber has a 570 obp with the sox and an even better slugging percentage. There's no amount of defense Rizzo could be playing that would help more. Also Bobby D had almost as many RBI tonight as Rizzo has his entire time with the Yankees. Maybe Bloom knows what he's doing.
 

cantor44

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Schwarber has a 570 obp with the sox and an even better slugging percentage. There's no amount of defense Rizzo could be playing that would help more. Also Bobby D had almost as many RBI tonight as Rizzo has his entire time with the Yankees. Maybe Bloom knows what he's doing.
Schwarber is the better player no argument there. Love watching him.

The Sox also went into a free fall between the deadline and his arrival on the field, and lost the division lead. They needed reinforcements during the most crucial and intense part of the schedule and didn't get them. And now they're clawing for a WC spot.

I'm loving Bobby D's awakening here and hope he keeps it up and the Sox have the good problem of too many bats. But after his first four months I don't think even Bloom was expecting as much from him, and certainly wasn't planning around him suddenly hitting at a 1.000 OPS clip...

I think Bloom is good. But he's certainly not omniscient or without biases or unable to make mistakes. If we were starting the season I'd prefer Schwarber to Rizzo if I could have my pick. What the Red Sox needed at the end of July, with just two months left in the season, however, was something more than an injured slugger who didn't play the position that statistically most obviously needed an upgrade.
 
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scottyno

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Schwarber is better player no argument there. Love watching him. The Sox also went into a free fall between the deadline and his arrival on the field. They needed reinforcements during the most crucial and intense part of the schedule and didn't get them. And now they're clawing for a WC spot.

I'm loving Bobby D's awakening here and hope the Sox have the good problem of too many bats. But after his first four months I don't think even Bloom was expecting as much from him, and certainly wasn't planning around him suddenly hitting at 1.000 OPS clip..
They were blown out in a lot of those games so I'm not sure what exactly you think having Schwarber (or Rizzo) would have done. They needed an entire team of reinforcements to change anything. Now Schwarber is back and they're still in a comfortable position with what is starting to look like a very good lineup again, so do you think they'd be better off overall if they'd traded for Rizzo or Schwarber?
 

cantor44

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They were blown out in a lot of those games so I'm not sure what exactly you think having Schwarber (or Rizzo) would have done. They needed an entire team of reinforcements to change anything. Now Schwarber is back and they're still in a comfortable position with what is starting to look like a very good lineup again, so do you think they'd be better off right now if they'd traded for Rizzo or Schwarber?
I don't know. I edited my last post a bit with some additional thoughts (didn't think anyone but me was up reading them - sorry for post post revision).

I think we're both guilty of some hindsight thinking here.

I would have preferred a player who could have come in and immediately helped the team while facing TB, TOR, and NY. Didn't have to be Rizzo. Could have been Bryant. In fact, I was hoping Bloom would get TWO players. Bryant and a good arm of any variety (RP or SP). We don't need to get into the state of the farm - SF got Bryant for two prospects not ranked in the top 100. If Bloom was willing to spend a little more - not burn down the farm mind you - he could have gotten reinforcements.

We have no idea, if the team got, say, Bryant and Kimbrel or someone, what would have happened thereafter. We we DID know at the end of July - and many of us commented on the board, myself included -- was the team was scuffling, and a bit hurt, and vulnerable to a skid. And was facing the most daunting part of the schedule. You can say in hindsight, "well, look how incredibly badly they played, no amount of reinforcement would have helped." Or, you could have said, at the time of the deadline, "we scuffling. We need help now. Every little bit counts. Let's do what we can, and see ..."

Let me ask you - do you think Bloom, right around the deadline, absolutely KNEW the team would play so horribly for 3 weeks that no amount of reinforcements would have made a difference, and therefore he decided it was better to spend less in prospects to get a guy who wouldn't be ready until after those 3 weeks?
 
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scottyno

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We have no idea, if they team had, say, Bryant and Kimbrel or someone, what would have happened thereafter. We we DID know at the end of July - and many of us commented on the board, myself included -- was the team was scuffling, and a bit hurt, and vulnerable to a skid. And was facing the most daunting part of the schedule. You can say in hindsight, "well, look how incredibly badly they played, no amount of reinforcement would have helped." Or, you could have said, at the time of the deadline, "we scuffling. We need help now. Every little bit counts. Let's do what we can, and see ..."
They went 7-3 in their last 10 before deadline day all against teams fighting for the playoffs, and were 13-10 for the month up to that point, which is a 92 win pace. That's not exactly scuffling.

As for what Bloom thought I think he thought, we're in a good spot now, let's make a few minor moves to sure up the depth of the team going forward without giving up much. I'm sure he understands the value (or lack thereof) of 2 months of almost any single player, isn't going to be very much.
 

cantor44

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They went 7-3 in their last 10 before deadline day all against teams fighting for the playoffs, and were 13-10 for the month up to that point, which is a 92 win pace. That's not exactly scuffling.

As for what Bloom thought I think he thought, we're in a good spot now, let's make a few minor moves to sure up the depth of the team going forward without giving up much. I'm sure he understands the value (or lack thereof) of 2 months of almost any single player, isn't going to be very much.
I don't know how to create multiple quotes in a single reply (my total and abject technological incompetence), so I've cut and paste a few of my posts between July 24-August 1 discussing what I thought were signs of an impending skid ...:

August 1:

... the Sox were clearly facing a very vulnerable period - guys playing hurt, starting pitching sucking and bullpen showing signs of wear and tear. All on the precipice of facing our divisional rivals, what 13-14 times in the upcoming few weeks after 7/30? It's not hyperbole to see these first few weeks after the deadline as potentially determinative ...

August 1:


these are good stats and enlightening ... thanks for this ... though we all have seen the starting pitching really fray the last two months, serious regression to mean and ERod obviously dealing with stuff ...

July 30:


I actually think the Schwarber acquisition (if he can get fully healthy) could be very impactful. The dude can rake and would really lengthen the line up. OTOH, it SEEMS Bloom played it too conservatively given the clear and decisive need for more starting pitching.


With the black hole at first? I dunno ...I'd still like to see a first baseman and an arm - either starter or reliever and I think we'll see at least one if not both ...

Jul 30, 2021

Sox in an interesting position ...they are a couple weeks (let's hope that soon) from the very essential additions of Sale, Schwarber, and Arroyo. Houck back sooner.

Until that time Devers hurt, X playing hurt, and Cora has to keep trotting out Dalbec and Perez/Erod/Pivetta/Richards ....JD and Renfroe scuffling a bit ...

I think the team might hit a bit of skid here, until some health resumed and Sale and Schwarb arrive on the scene ... I'll try not panic if they go 6-9 or 5-10 coming up ...


Jul 25, 2021

It is astonishing that the Sox might be four wild pitches from a minor league pitcher who shit his pants under the bright lights from losing 5 out of 7 from an extremely depleted Yankees team. Of course ebbs and flows in a season, but one lucky win in there obscuring a team really starting to scuffle. Yanks have solid pitching, then again, guys with ERAs in the high fours are just ripping through the Sox line up with ease ....

Jul 24, 2021

Ottvino has really looked like shit recently. All those short start chickens coming home to roost ....
 

YTF

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Maybe I'm not following your logic. Schwarber not playing first base seems like an extension of the very reasons he was an imperfect fit: he was both injured and had essentially never played there before (and is generally not a great fielder). For all of those reasons, his not playing first was a distinct possibility given existing factors.

Rizzo getting COVID is more random (yes, I know he's unvaccinated, but so is JD and he hasn't gotten, etc).

That is, Schwarber not playing first is a result of factors that preexisted at the time of the trade. Rizzo getting COVID was not.
My logic is simple. My argument is as flawed as yours. Rizzo is one guy. Swap out him and Schwarber and where to you suppose the Sox are right now? You're not happy with the deadline acquisitions. You don't think Chaim did enough. I get it. But for fuck sake, the Rizzo vs Schwarber take is a shitty argument.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
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But for fuck sake, the Rizzo vs Schwarber take is a shitty argument.
Not the least of which being that we don't know which RS prospects the Cubs would have wanted for Rizzo.

***

I know this is the thread for it, but do we not have anything else to discuss about the deadline?
 

cantor44

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Dec 23, 2020
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My logic is simple. My argument is as flawed as yours. Rizzo is one guy. Swap out him and Schwarber and where to you suppose the Sox are right now? You're not happy with the deadline acquisitions. You don't think Chaim did enough. I get it. But for fuck sake, the Rizzo vs Schwarber take is a shitty argument.
I don't think I've ever exactly argued Rizzo over Schwarber. I've stated many times Bryant would have been a cool option. ANd I've stated over and over how much I like Schwarber! This isn't a black and white analysis.

And the analysis of the how "good" a trade was should be on the merits of the trade at the time it was made. Of course hindsight thinking is 20/20. The Red Sox had some immediate needs heading into a crucial stretch of the schedule. On 7/29 biggest holes in the line up were at first, and needing an arm (starters regressing to mean and bullpen showing signs of fraying, that only got worse). And Bloom didn't really fill them, leaving the team without reinforcements for that stretch of games.

It's too easy to say, "well, look what Bobby Dalbec's done since then! And Rizzo got COVID, would you have wanted THAT?!" That's all hindsight thinking.
 

cantor44

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Not the least of which being that we don't know which RS prospects the Cubs would have wanted for Rizzo.

***

I know this is the thread for it, but do we not have anything else to discuss about the deadline?
Don't worry Romine, it's almost over. Should we consider "Rizzo" and "Deadline" trigger words from here on in? ;)
 

YTF

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Yes, but that was not something that could have been anticipated, as Rizzo was fine at the time of the trade. If he had COVID at the time of the trade, then sure it correlates. Bloom traded for a guy who was injured, with an uncertain return date, but at minimum would miss two weeks ...
I don't think I've ever exactly argued Rizzo over Schwarber. I've stated many times Bryant would have been a cool option. ANd I've stated over and over how much I like Schwarber! This isn't a black and white analysis.

And the analysis of the how "good" a trade was should be on the merits of the trade at the time it was made. Of course hindsight thinking is 20/20. The Red Sox had some immediate needs heading into a crucial stretch of the schedule. On 7/29 biggest holes in the line up were at first, and needing an arm (starters regressing to mean and bullpen showing signs of fraying, that only got worse). And Bloom didn't really fill them, leaving the team without reinforcements for that stretch of games.

It's too easy to say, "well, look what Bobby Dalbec's done since then! And Rizzo got COVID, would you have wanted THAT?!" That's all hindsight thinking.
Perhaps you never EXACTLY argued for Rizzo, but you jumped into the Rizzo argument with your post above. That in turn got a response from me. And for the record, while I'm OK with Chaim not breaking the bank to get Rizzo I've also pushed back against those using his getting covid as proof that we shouldn't have traded for him. That like many things argued pro and con has nothin' to do with nothin'. We have no idea if he would have gotten it here.
 

Sandman5756

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Jul 31, 2021
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Just to remind people, the Yankees have at least Six wins they wouldn’t have without their deadline pickups. We have two losses to sub 500 teams that are directly attributable to our pick ups.
 

scottyno

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Dec 7, 2008
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Just to remind people, the Yankees have at least Six wins they wouldn’t have without their deadline pickups. We have two losses to sub 500 teams that are directly attributable to our pick ups.
Rizzo Gallo and Heaney have a net WPA of 0.0 so no, no they don't. By comparison the sox 3 deadline guys had a net of +0.6 before today
 

BringBackMo

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Jul 15, 2005
143
Just to remind people, the Yankees have at least Six wins they wouldn’t have without their deadline pickups. We have two losses to sub 500 teams that are directly attributable to our pick ups.
Just to remind people, every time the Sox lose a game for the rest of the season, bump this thread to complain about the deadline.
 

grimshaw

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May 16, 2007
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I never thought I'd be rooting for Ryan Brasier to get back on the roster, but at least his upside is higher than the guys they have acquired.
Bazardo is almost healthy too.

They also let Feltman go 40 pitches and 2.1 innings today. Wonder if he'd get a look.