Grade the Crochet Trade

Grade the trade

  • 10

  • 9

  • 8

  • 7

  • 6

  • 5

  • 4

  • 3

  • 2

  • 1


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Toe Nash

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It can only get so hard. While catching matters, it is hardly a position that causes teams to win championships. Pitching does win championships. They got a top of the line, young, starter. This is way better than dumping money on Burnes or Fried.
I dunno, ask Jason Varitek. I think a good hitting good defensive catcher is one of the hardest things to get and gives you a huge leg up on competing. I know Teel may not be that but I like his chances. I also don't think they should be trying to push up their window to this year and should focus on 2026 and beyond when all the young guys had a couple years under their belts. Crochet could have been available later for less, possibly. It would be hard to find a catcher with Teel's upside.

3 from me but I understand I'm in the minority. I just love Teel and don't love young pitchers who haven't shown lots of durability.
 

catomatic

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Jul 16, 2005
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I’m at an 8 because of several factors; steep price, health history/health projection, extension parameters amount to an unknown wildcard.

If DRS were with us still, I would want Chris’s opinion shared with us on the medicals, and I would have ponied up my sawbuck.
 

TheDogMan

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Oct 25, 2024
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No need to rehash the complaints or plaudits. The NEWS thread about the acquisition has some great pro and con analysis. But let's hear what everyone thinks. Hate it? Like it? Love it? Not giving a Wait and See option, as that's too easy

The board doesn't allow unlimited choices, so rank the trade from 1 to 10, with 1 being HATE IT and 10 being LOVE IT
I voted 8. Yes it was expensive but all prospects are suspects. Sox needed two big starters the off season and this half of the equation. We have other needs but two starters is the biggest.
 

doctorogres

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9.

The MLB team is way better for 2025 and 2026. Imagine the cost if this guy had two years like 2024.

Crochet: The stuff is just insane. I was salivating reading this article from the other thread. Dude added a 99MPH 2-seam with 19" of run?! He's a month younger than Bello?! His K:BB was the best in baseball last year?!

You just don't get the chance to add someone like that all too often. At minimum, we have an inside track to extend him and that can't be underrated. I don't want to get into a whole thing here but I think our lack of spending has been more about the dearth of truly premium talent. Young and great. We were willing to go to $300m for YY and got outbid by the Dodgers, and then to $700m for Soto but got outbid by the Mets. They'll extend Crochet, this year or next.

Teel: This hurts but it's more likely we traded Matt Wieters than Buster Posey. It's impressive that he hit AAA but he didn't set the world on fire. His defense could be above average but he still has work to do in that area. And the position is tough on the body. He's further away than a lot of people think and we can go out and add adequate catching. Put another way, his ceiling is "great for a catcher" while for the guys we hung onto it's "MVP candidate."

Montgomery: Trading from a position of abundance, at MLB level and in our system. Switch hitter but much better as a LHH, questions about the hit tool and swing and miss. A great outcome for him would be Wilyer Abreau. This is cashing in a lot of value for the Sox for a guy who hasn't played a professional inning.

Meidroth: He's always been an intriguing guy but I'd rather have Rafaela as a super sub. There's a reason they didn't call him up last year to fill in at SS or 2B. I'm not saying he's bad but he just doesn't fit our roster. Good to get value for a 40-man squeeze guy.

Gonzalez: He could magically figure out his command and be a good reliever, I guess. This is, again, value for a guy we may or may not protect.

You do this deal all day and twice on Sunday. This idea that "the cupboard's bare" or we're "mortgaging the future" is ridiculous. We paid a fair price for super premium, young talent. The window's wide open.
 

doctorogres

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They just got a cost controlled Ace. Without giving up anyone on their roster, or any of their top 3 prospects. To sweeten the pot his arb years until 2027 are dampened because of the CWS using him as a reliever, and then shutting him down last year. I only voted 10 because 11 wasn't an option. He will be extended because its in everybodys best interest.

For everyone concerned about getting a catcher. Those are available. 25 yr old aces not so much.

Anyone care how well Carl Pavano and Tony Armas jr's careers panned out?
Shorter version of my take.
 

simplicio

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Between 8 and 9, it hurts like hell with no other catcher in sight in the system and Crochet is a huge gamble on health, but he's got the talent and the age. Extend him 5-6 years and it's a 10.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I gave it an 8, mostly because Connor Wong is now the only catcher on the 40-man.
Mickey Gasper is still on the roster. <ducks>

I'm also at an 8, mainly because it was a steeper price than I thought it would take and Crochet doesn't have a long track record for a guy with just two years of control. But it's a big move to address a need. I think I like it more because maybe it will stifle some of the whining that followed the Soto and Fried signings than as a baseball move despite it being a good move.
 

sodenj5

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8.

Teel felt like the least replaceable of the top prospects because there’s a current void at the big league level and no obvious replacement for him in the system either.

The system is stacked full of OFs and middle infielders. I would have preferred they kept Teel and Montgomery and swapped in Mayer if that would have gotten the deal done.

Mayer carries a higher pedigree and is probably the right amount of injury prone where you gamble on him not realizing his potential in exchange for an ace that carries equally high risk.

Overall, the front office sees this as a safer bet than signing a pitcher that’s 30+ for 6 or 7 years. I don’t disagree, but those guys also only cost money whereas Crochet will cost prospects and money.
 

Benj4ever

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Nov 21, 2022
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It can only get so hard. While catching matters, it is hardly a position that causes teams to win championships. Pitching does win championships. They got a top of the line, young, starter. This is way better than dumping money on Burnes or Fried.
In two years, the Red Sox will be dumping money on Crochet (or else the trade just isn't that good). I don't see how this is "way better" than signing Burnes. I do agree though, that in general, that granting huge money in free agency is much more risky than people realize. But the Crochet trade is not without it's own risks. Crochet is a guy who's been injured and could easily get injured in the next two years. The question is really how you evaluate the risk associated with Crochet vs. that of Burnes, as well as how you evaluate the cost of the trade based on what your expectations are for the prospects you gave up.
 

doctorogres

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Mickey Gasper is still on the roster. <ducks>

I'm also at an 8, mainly because it was a steeper price than I thought it would take and Crochet doesn't have a long track record for a guy with just two years of control. But it's a big move to address a need. I think I like it more because maybe it will stifle some of the whining that followed the Soto and Fried signings than as a baseball move despite it being a good move.
OK so imagine the cost if Crochet was more proven. You think it's steep now?

I'm not saying there's no risk to the deal, but it's worth it for the upside here. Duran was elite last year, at 8.7 bWAR (!), but is that for real? Devers is good for 3-5 WAR, maybe everything goes right and he gets to 6. I'd put Houck around there too. And he have a lotta guys in the 2-4 WAR range. In other words, our biggest area of need is star players.
 

JohntheBaptist

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The complaint that it does suck to sacrifice players when you could spend money for a similar asset is fair, and one I've made. However, there is a scenario where that is the approach and you don't have someone as good as Crochet to go after and ultimately get. Or someone else gets him and they pivot to something with more warts in the deal/ player.

So I think considering, this was a good thing in the end, I'm glad Breslow closed and got it done. I think the extension makes this a superlative trade, but even then I'm glad there's two years of control, too.

Great work, a legit ace and he's 25.
 

20Ks

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Jul 11, 2024
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You can’t possibly be comparing the Pedro deal to this one

this is a good trade. But Crochet has thrown 219 innings in his career. Pedro had almost 800 of incredible production before being acquired

nobody cares about Pavano and Armas for the same reason nobody cares about Margot or Hanley Ramirez or Moncada/Kopech. Those deals worked out

trading good/great prospects isn’t a bad thing but let’s not pretend Crochet is anywhere near the established presence that Pedro (or Sale, or even Kimbrel or Beckett) were

Established prescence? Incredible production? Not sure what that means, but Crochet just had a season over 6 K/BB. Pedro did that twice after he came here, and won MVP's both times. . And not sure you are remembering the Chris Sale era in totality but either way you make that deal as well.. Sure this one might not work out but they were all trades for Aces.
They were in a position to make this deal because of their farm system being stacked.. If you can make this deal you make it, and never look back
 

BaseballJones

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Wong was #22 in MLB in bWAR at the C position. Not awful. Not very good. Below average. But not a complete black hole there. He had a .758 ops, which would have placed him 6th in MLB if he qualified.

Obviously defense is the issue, as he was a -0.5 dWAR. Which is below average, obviously, but not godawful. No doubt with Teel gone, they'll have to shore up that position, both at the MLB level and also in the minors.
 

Jason Bae

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I gave it an 8. Felt like they gave up a bit much, but I can understand Montgomery (Sox are loaded at OF and Anthony/Campbell are pretty much MLB ready). Would have preferred to keep Teel, I thought he was the guy to take over at C. He helps fill a big need and he was one of the names I really wanted, but this also hinges a lot on whether they extend him or not. Right now he's a pseudo-rental.
 

tbrown_01923

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I was a 5. By btv, I think montgomerys contribution could have been provided by a higher floor / lower ceiling type. But who knows what the other competitive offers were.

I prefered FA route, was excited by Teel (pop times, decent bat) but i thought his catching/ framing was a wip (sox prospects i think).

Any way, lfg.
 

cornwalls@6

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I gave it an 8. I love the deal, and was tempted to go 10. But cost and risk slightly temper it for me. Though it could easily go to a 10 if Crochet becomes a legit ace. How Teel and the rest of them pan out is largely immaterial to me if we have found our stopper for the next 5-7 years.
 

loneredseat

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Dec 8, 2023
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I think it's more reasonable to assume that we will extend him. Why do this if we're not committed to extending him? It'd make no sense. I don't think Breslow is a dummy. And we literally know that Crochet wants an extension. He demanded it of potential acquiring teams just 5 months ago.

Also not sure I follow the logic that each of the 4 guys we shipped out would definitely spend 6 years on the Sox major league roster. If one of them did we'd probably consider that a win.
I've been catching up on the other thread for the past hour or so and for all the reasons discussed, I've definitely warmed up to it. There certainly is a condition of becoming attached to your prospects (and probably overrating them as well). Crochet is undeniably nasty- I've always thought that. And assuming they do extend him (almost at any cost) I think I gotta change my vote to about an eight.
Really I wish I had started around page 10, where Chawson and Mango Salsa agreed that it was a win. That would have been enough to convince me.
Is there a Sasaki thread yet??
 

Diamond Don Aase

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The Red Sox paid a premium for two years of a pitcher whose 146 innings in 2024 not only represent a career-high but represent two-thirds of the innings he has thrown in his major league career. While they were high-quality innings and Crochet can reasonably be expected to approximate that production during his two remaining years of control, Boston continues to build rotations heavily reliant on pitchers more likely to throw 130 innings or fewer than 180 or more. That does not innately inhibit a successful season, but complementing such a rotation with a bullpen lacking multi-inning options would seem to narrow the path. Perhaps a return to health from Garrett Whitlock and Michael Fulmer will provide those relief options, but betting the farm based on the recovery of a 32-year-old that was exposed to the Rule 5 draft seems less than optimal.

Those concerns are compounded by the acquisition cost. Montgomery and Teel are a painful pairing but understandably a necessary one when acquiring high-level talent. Gonzalez and Meidroth, particularly in tandem, seem much less necessary. How many teams could have matched— much less beaten— Montgomery and Teel? The Reds could not have without including Chase Burns nor could the Phillies have without including Andrew Painter, neither of which appears likely. Seattle seems better-positioned to trade a starting pitcher than acquire one, making the Mariners an improbable partner for the White Sox. The Padres reportedly deemed both Leo De Vries and Ethan Salas untouchable and the balance of the San Diego system is more minnows than whales. That leaves the Tigers, Cubs, and Mets. If those teams were willing to build a package around Max Clark, Matt Shaw, or Jett Williams, though, somebody somewhere would have said something sometime. Without such a headliner, even those teams would have been hard-pressed to present a comparable offer that was not predicated on some combination of Harvard-Westlake game film, Myrtle Beach park factors, or David Stearns’ mastery of the dark arts.

Gonzalez, in particular, seems too readily dismissed as inconsequential. He is a 22-year-old that already has succeeded as a starting pitcher in Double-A, making 24 appearances for Portland last season. While Gonzalez frequently struggled in the first dozen of those games (including nine starts), the next dozen (including 10 starts) were downright dirty. From June 28 to the end of the Sea Dogs’ season, he posted a 3.26 FIP and a 30% strikeout rate while reducing his walk rate by nearly 5% and continuing to suppress home runs (0.6 per nine innings). Gonzalez’s age, stuff, and overall track record compare well with recent draft picks Brody Brecht (Rockies) and Ben Hess (Yankees), each of whom received $2.7 million to sign in July— more than all but one remaining member of the Red Sox past three draft classes. The compressed window of two remaining option years to further refine his command diminishes Gonzalez’s value relative to those recent draftees, but he would still rank among the top 10 prospects in many systems and the top 12 in most. Perhaps the likes of Elmer Rodriguez-Cruz, Jedixson Paez, and Conrad Cason (apropos of nothing, happy birthday to Frankie Rodriguez) are better attuned to the developmental strengths of the Breslow-Bailey-Willard regime but, given this organization’s persistent struggles to develop starting pitching, I hesitate to minimize the impact of including such a high ceiling as a throw-in, especially when I question the necessity of that throw-in.

Ultimately, I grade the trade as 5– nothing to shoot your garage about but genuine concerns that I hope to be allayed by subsequent moves that are at least as focused on long-term team construction as short-term talent acquisition.
 

lexrageorge

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I gave it a 7.

Good points: got a premier player at a position of need. Young, cost controlled for 2 seasons. Pitchers under a 30 are a hugely valuable commodity. Strengthens both the starting rotation and the bullpen. Team had prospect capital to use and Breslow went out and used it. The value metrics seem to grade the trade as even, which is fine, as the Sox needed the (mostly) proven pitcher more than they needed the prospects.

What keeps it from being a 9 or 10: Had to pay. 4 prospects is a lot, and there is opportunity cost as well (none of those 4 are available for additional trades). Will need to extend Crochet soon or risk him leaving via free agency. Crochet's track record is limited due to injury, but that may be more of a concern for the extension. Innings will need to be managed in 2025.

Teel: Great prospect that rose fast. But catchers do not always possess the tools to remain at catcher. And he does hit worse against lefties.

Montgomery: Let's see how he does when the bats turn to wood.

Meidroth: Would he ever be a regular starter for Boston? Would we want that?

Gonzalez: His BB rate looks terrifying. Seems destined to be a fungible bullpen arm.
 

RG33

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I gave it a well-deserved “10”.

They got a 25-year old ace SP with two more years of control before you have to shell out big cash for him (which I assume they will). You didn’t have to give up your top 3 prospects who all border on being MLB ready either currently or in 2026.

It’s a grand slam move.
 

Rasputin

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I give it an 8. We got what we wanted but paid retail for it. Solid deal but I’m saving 9 and 10 for things like Slucumb and Punto deals.
 

Apisith

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Give him a 4-year extension on top of the 2 we have him under control for and it’s a 9. Right now it’s a 7.
 

mjs

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9.
The clear #1 need going into the offseason was to add high-end pitching talent. This does that without making the big league team any weaker. It hurts to give up our last two 1st round picks, and the farm is now less well stocked. I am optimistic that Crochet will be extended and be durable enough, but that's just, well, optimism.
MLB put this nice article out that got me pumped to watch this guy pitch
https://www.mlb.com/redsox/news/how-garrett-crochet-became-an-ace.
 

simplicio

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What keeps it from being a 9 or 10: Had to pay. 4 prospects is a lot, and there is opportunity cost as well (none of those 4 are available for additional trades). Will need to extend Crochet soon or risk him leaving via free agency. Crochet's track record is limited due to injury, but that may be more of a concern for the extension. Innings will need to be managed in 2025.
Will his innings need managing? He got to 146 this year, that's more than Crawford and Houck had in 2023.
 

Daniel_Son

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I gave it a 10. We haven't seen this kind of conviction out of the front office since Dombrowski left. While I didn't always agree with his moves, I admire that he had a clear vision of what he wanted to do with the team. No more nibbling around the edges.
 

benhogan

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8. Hopefully, GC's agent indicated an extension amount pre-trade which would move this to a 10 at the right price.

Soto lifted all asset values, great time to be a seller (WS get an 8)

Hate the idea of paying top of the market for 30-year-old FA pitching.
PASS on Burnes
 

streeter88

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8. Thrilled the front office did something to improve the pitching. There has been a lot of hand wringing the past 2 seasons (yes I have done my fair share too), and this first deal now concluded gives the fandom reason to hope the Red Sox are actually going to try to field a contender next season. Lots of prospects given up, but the Red Sox were never going to underpay for Crochet given all the interest in him. Teel may end up being great, Crochet may end up being great - who knows? But at this point it is a good trade for both teams.

Please now get one more SP to replace Pivetta and then fix the bullpen which was objectively terrible second half of last year. I would love to have an SP who actually can pitch 6-7 IP consistently.
 

grimshaw

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9 - Dealt from legit surplus with 3 out of the 4 guys. It'd be a 10 if they had another catcher in the pipeline since it's an immediate need.
 

BravesField

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5 - I'm not too crazy about what we gave up for a 2 year rental. I get that people keep saying extend him, and I would agree . But how much and how many years to you give to a guy with 1 elite year to base it on? I guess I'd be happier with this trade if we could add 2 years to extend him.

But, if I were him, there's no way I'd sign an extension, unless it was crazy money for crazy years.

If his stuff is so elite as everyone believes, I'd wait out the 2 years and wait for the Brinks truck.
 

OCD SS

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I agree with a lot of the assessments, but I went between a 6 & 7, and ultimately decided on 7 (I think I’m a tougher grader than some here).
  • Teel is tough to lose, mostly because the Sox have no catchers in the pipeline otherwise, and it’s a position of scarcity across MLB. I think of him as similar to Jason Kendal, which is a great outcome in today’s game.
  • I liked Montgomery, but the Sox have surplus OFers across the system, so somebody we liked was going to have to go.
  • Meidroth & Gonzalez are completely fungible IMO.
I like Crochet’s age vs FA options, and the fact that I think they can extend him makes it a 7. The Sox got locked in to having to make a deal in an insane market by not addressing these issues sooner (even though we knew they needed to), so the high price keeps it from being an 8.
 

Archer1979

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7 - But that could change and is based largely on the unknown. Prospects are so iffy. Crochet has had one good year. We don't know if Crochet will be great . If he'll agree to an extension. Just a lot of variables. But...

The Sox are getting a starting pitcher which is a huge need. They could probably stand to go out and get another quality arm to bolster the rotation.

Did Breslow give up too much? Four prospects is what got the deal done. You have to give up something to get something. Heathcliff Slocumb for Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek is a rarity. More often, trades are like Baylor for Easler. The Sox still have a lot of quality in the pipeline.
 

sezwho

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See lots of conditional grades based upon whether he resigns. I’m not sure they have anything in place, and why would Crochet take a below market extension? The Sox won’t sign him to a market rate, clearly they aren’t in that business.

Heck the Yankees probably thought their ‘home team’ advantage would help with Soto, and they were willing to spend real money.

Is the idea that Crochet is motivated and his low salary next two years means the Sox have that chance to get him at the vaunted discount?
 

joe dokes

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Boston continues to build rotations heavily reliant on pitchers more likely to throw 130 innings or fewer than 180 or more.
21 pitchers in MLB threw 180 innings last year. Fewer than 1 per team. The Sox had 1, another at 178, and a third at 162. 3 guys made 30+ starts. Sox had 2 in top 24 in IP. The "more likely to throw 130...." doesn't hold up.
 

joe dokes

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See lots of conditional grades based upon whether he resigns. I’m not sure they have anything in place, and why would Crochet take a below market extension? The Sox won’t sign him to a market rate, clearly they aren’t in that business.
So you think the 5-yr age difference between Crochet and other FA pitchers is meaningless to the FO?
 

BigSoxFan

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See lots of conditional grades based upon whether he resigns. I’m not sure they have anything in place, and why would Crochet take a below market extension? The Sox won’t sign him to a market rate, clearly they aren’t in that business.

Heck the Yankees probably thought their ‘home team’ advantage would help with Soto, and they were willing to spend real money.

Is the idea that Crochet is motivated and his low salary next two years means the Sox have that chance to get him at the vaunted discount?
He has 2 years of injury risk to deal with. This is a guy who wanted an extension in order to pitch in the 2024 playoffs, if anyone traded for him. My guess is he’d be amenable to an extension here. Realistically, every SP should. Their risk of injury is so high.

And the Sox should be willing to pay close to market rates on an extension anyways. No reason not to. You need to lock up this asset.
 

sezwho

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So you think the 5-yr age difference between Crochet and other FA pitchers is meaningless to the FO?
Yes, it’s not about age it’s about market. Every one else values youth higher too.

Not just trying to be argumentative, I don’t actually think they do need to. Two cheap beers (edit years…too good Siri) and see where you are.

I hope they do though….and fair points @BigSoxFan
 

joe dokes

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Yes, it’s not about age it’s about market. Every one else values youth higher too.
It's the market for young pitchers, which I think the team will not try to cheap out in. It just doesn't happen very often. There is abundant evidence they won't give long-term market rate FA contracts to pitchers over 30. There is no such evidence with pitchers considerably under 30.

I give it an 8. It's a great deal, the price seems appropriate. But right now, it's only for 2 years of Crochet.
 

rajendra82

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Ultimately, I grade the trade as 5– nothing to shoot your garage about but genuine concerns that I hope to be allayed by subsequent moves that are at least as focused on long-term team construction as short-term talent acquisition.
What did you grade the Chapman signing?
 

Sam Ray Not

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I gave it a well-deserved “10”.

They got a 25-year old ace SP with two more years of control before you have to shell out big cash for him (which I assume they will). You didn’t have to give up your top 3 prospects who all border on being MLB ready either currently or in 2026.

It’s a grand slam move.
This is where I am, with the caveat that I’m probably in the ~5th percentile of SoSH when it comes to prospect knowledge. I’m not quite my mom, who thinks guys don’t exist till they show up on the big club (she was all abuzz last year by the Celtics’ “new young guy” Jrue Holiday) but I basically just go by what I hear on this site. Was excited by the buzz on Teel when we drafted him, but had assumed people had significantly cooled on him just based on how seldom I had heard mentioned in the same breath as Anthony, Campbell, and Mayer when it came to future rosterbating. And the other names I had only heard in passing.

So, color me surprised at some of the hand-wringing over the fact that — without giving up any of our top three prospects — we snagged a 25 year old (seven months younger than Soto) who put up 12.0 K/9 and and 6.33 K/BB last season in 146 innings, Honestly did I double take when I saw those numbers. Holy crap. Feels a bit like getting Sale, only at 25 instead of 28.

A big part of argument for Soto at $873 zillion instead of a more earthly sum was that guys that young don’t just come available. We just got that young with two two cheap years left.

I get the concerns about the extension, the paucity of high-level catching, etc., but man, I expected the vibe in here to be a lot less crotchety and a lot more … crochet-y.
 
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YTF

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See lots of conditional grades based upon whether he resigns. I’m not sure they have anything in place, and why would Crochet take a below market extension? The Sox won’t sign him to a market rate, clearly they aren’t in that business.

Heck the Yankees probably thought their ‘home team’ advantage would help with Soto, and they were willing to spend real money.

Is the idea that Crochet is motivated and his low salary next two years means the Sox have that chance to get him at the vaunted discount?
Not sure if I see it as a discount, nor am I sure that his salary will be low the next two years.
I've seen a few predictions that he would get the neighborhood of 3M this season. GIve him huge bumps for '25 and '26 then work out something amicable for the next 4 years which allows him to hit the market and look for a bigger payday at age 31.
 

Fishy1

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I gave it a well-deserved “10”.

They got a 25-year old ace SP with two more years of control before you have to shell out big cash for him (which I assume they will). You didn’t have to give up your top 3 prospects who all border on being MLB ready either currently or in 2026.

It’s a grand slam move.
This is where I'm at. Teel and Mayer are just a lower tier of prospect to me than Campbell and Anthony. They are at tougher positions, but indications are neither are otherworldly as defenders. Which is not to say they aren't great prospects -- adequate-to-good fielding catchers and shortstops who can also hit are very hard to find! But I also suspect either or both of them are going to turn into Wieters and Jed Lowrie: good players, but ones where the hitting never really develops or they're injured too much. Players we won't regret missing out on too much.

Whereas Campbell and Anthony, I think, have a good chance to be perennial all-stars... and we didn't even give up Mayer!

Meidroth I think is actually going to have a pretty good career, but again, it wasn't going to happen with us. And Montgomery hasn't even played in pro ball yet. Gonzalez I don't really care for either, it seems like he's never gonna figure out his issues with control.

I think sometimes we get obsessed with the "what if!" factor with prospects without taking the "what if...?" attitude. Crochet has already proven he can do it at the highest level. Teel hasn't hit in AAA yet. Montgomery hasn't hit in A+ ball. Gonzalez hasn't shown he can throw a BB under 5/9. I mean, for god's sake, Meidroth is the only one who's shown he can handle AAA!

And people who wish we'd "just" signed Fried or Burnes. Like yeah, if money was no object, sure.

IMO it's ALL about the return here. Crochet has a much better chance of being as good as he is now (which, to be clear, is one of the very best pitchers in baseball) two or three years from now than Burnes or Fried--as 30 year-olds, they're exiting their primes, and Burnes K rate is already plummeting. And Crochet has also indicated a willingness to sign an extension, which could happen as soon as tomorrow (with the obvious caveat that we don't know when or if it will happen).
 

sezwho

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Jul 20, 2005
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It's the market for young pitchers, which I think the team will participate in. It just doesn't happen very often. There is abundant evidence they won't give long-term market rate FA contracts to pitchers over 30. There is no such evidence with pitchers considerably under 30.
Also fair. Maybe I’m over learning from Soto: when a young elite player becomes available they will be acquired by the big market teams (Yankees, Mets, Dodgers) and after that we scrap it out with Texas and Toronto, etc. for the tier 2s.

That exclusive window and his greed/injury fears are the drivers. Check, thanks.
 

Fishy1

Head Mason
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
8,351
Also fair. Maybe I’m over learning from Soto: when a young elite player becomes available they will be acquired by the big market teams (Yankees, Mets, Dodgers) and after that we scrap it out with Texas and Toronto for the tier 2s.

That exclusive window and his greed/injury fears are the drivers. Check, thanks.
Yeah, I think Crochet is probably motivated to sign an extension. And I don't think the Sox will cheap out here. They haven't had a chance to extend a guy like this, at his age, since like, Pedro or Beckett. (not that Crochet has their track record yet, but in terms of performance).

And given his background and limited experience as a starter the extension may not end up being as rich as we're fearing.
 

Toe Nash

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Jul 28, 2005
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This is where I am, with the caveat that I’m probably in the ~5th percentile of SoSH when it comes to prospect knowledge. I’m not quite my mom, who thinks guys don’t exist till they show up on the big club (she was all abuzz last year by the Celtics’ “new young guy” Jrue Holiday) but I basically just go by what I hear on this site. Was excited by the buzz on Teel when we drafted him, but had assumed people had significantly cooled on him just based on how seldom I had heard mentioned in the same breath as Anthony, Campbell, and Mayer when it came to future rosterbating. And the other names I had only heard in passing.

So, color me surprised at some of the hand-wringing over acquiring a 25 year old (seven months younger than Soto) who put up 12.0 K/9 and and 6.33 K/BB last season in 146 innings. Honestly did I double take when I saw those numbers. Holy crap.

I get the concerns about the extension, the paucity of high-level catching, etc., but man, I expected the vibe in here to be a lot less crotchety and a lot more … crochet-y.
I mean 90% of voters in the poll are rating it a 7 or better, that's not very crotchety.
 

Fishy1

Head Mason
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
8,351
I mean 90% of voters in the poll are rating it a 7 or better, that's not very crotchety.
Well, I'm glass half-empty and I'm seeing 33% of voters giving it a 7 (a C!) or worse... so I have to disagree. ;)