Gordon Hayward 2020: I'm standing here in pieces and you're having delusions of grandeur!

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Jimbodandy

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I'd be very surprised. Boxer's fracture is usually 5th metacarpal (occasionally also in combination with 4th as well) that occurs when punching something hard with closed fist. It's at a specific location and has a specific angulation, hard to imagine Hayward did that just awkwardly running into a screen.

Probably more like the 2nd Xray down on the left, not the top X-ray on the left.

http://pathologies.lexmedicus.com.au/pathologies/metacarpal-fractures
It looked to me that as his body was forced into Aldridge's, the latter's elbow was forced into the back of Hayward's hand, with his palm facing his own abdomen or chest. As the bodies hit hard, a bunch of force was imparted into the hand from the single point of that elbow. It didn't look like what the internet says that a boxer's fracture is.
 

amarshal2

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It looked to me like he was ripping his hand by and his finger got caught in Aldridge’s Jersey. You see the jersey pop out for a second in the side view from SA broadcast.
 

lovegtm

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Would be nice to have him back so they can start figuring out their offensive identity more.
 

NomarsFool

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Yes, the last two games against Brooklyn felt like too much reliance on Kemba. He had the great game at home, of course, but there were a few times when it felt like old Kyrie hero ball again. With Hayward on the floor, the Celtics really move the ball better. Also, having him out and being replaced by Semi for example - is like, just a wee bit of an offensive downgrade :cool:
 

DJnVa

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https://theathletic.com/1429819/2019/12/03/how-will-gordon-haywards-expected-return-later-this-month-affect-celtics/
Highlights:

A FaceTime checkup with his doctor this weekend delivered good news, allowing him to participate in most of practice Tuesday. Hayward still has not resumed full contact, but said he worked on “hybrid contact” drills with the Celtics coaches. The next step will be jumping back into less structured drills, closer to live action, where Hayward will be able to see how much he can handle.
They have managed to hold everything together so far, but without Hayward it’s been more of a drag. Out of Boston’s 11 best duos according to offensive rating (minimum 50 minutes played), he is involved in five. The net ratings for Celtics three-man combinations show that while they have been productive whenever using at least three of their best players, those lineups with Hayward have had more luster
Trio (ordered by minutes played) Offensive Rating Defensive Rating Net rating
Hayward-Brown-Tatum 119.7 92.6 27.1
Hayward-Walker-Brown 116 99.4 16.6
Hayward-Walker-Tatum 113.8 94.7 19.1
Walker-Brown-Tatum 111.9 100.8 11.1
Walker-Smart-Tatum 110.4 105.2 5.2
Walker-Smart-Brown 109.2 106.2 3
Smart-Brown-Tatum 108 104.2 3.8
Hayward-Smart-Tatum 105 87.9 17.1
Hayward-Walker-Smart 104.3 97.2
 

TripleOT

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Last year, it seemed that the three wings couldn't play well together. Tatum, Brown, Hayward Offensive rating 105.9, Defensive, 98.8, Net 7.1. Huge jump up this year to a Net of 27.1. Not playing with ball dominant PGs in a free flowing system seems to be good for them.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Last year, it seemed that the three wings couldn't play well together. Tatum, Brown, Hayward Offensive rating 105.9, Defensive, 98.8, Net 7.1. Huge jump up this year to a Net of 27.1. Not playing with ball dominant PGs in a free flowing system seems to be good for them.
They also had Morris and Rozier combining for 50 ball-stopping minutes per game. Maybe you have reduced the overall talent level with them gone but funneling the bulk of the shot creation to a smaller core has been a big boost to the level of play when everyone is healthy. With an uptick in 3pt production it would look even better.
 

Jimbodandy

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They also had Morris and Rozier combining for 50 ball-stopping minutes per game. Maybe you have reduced the overall talent level with them gone but funneling the bulk of the shot creation to a smaller core has been a big boost to the level of play when everyone is healthy. With an uptick in 3pt production it would look even better.
Reduced overall talent at the top end offensively. But from a 2-way player and flow POV, swapping out Rozier and Morris for Wanamaker and say Grant has had a positive bottom line impact.

You're right--it's not just a Kyrie transplant that's helping the flow. We removed 3 flow-killing ball-hogs that play no defense.
 

reggiecleveland

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Reduced overall talent at the top end offensively. But from a 2-way player and flow POV, swapping out Rozier and Morris for Wanamaker and say Grant has had a positive bottom line impact.

You're right--it's not just a Kyrie transplant that's helping the flow. We removed 3 flow-killing ball-hogs that play no defense.
I am a big Rozier hater. He just wasn't good enough to A. play the shoot first style he liked B. Contribute to the offence as a complementary guy. Almost seemed like he wanted to be the 2nd Kyrie, when one was more than enough.
 

lovegtm

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Reduced overall talent at the top end offensively. But from a 2-way player and flow POV, swapping out Rozier and Morris for Wanamaker and say Grant has had a positive bottom line impact.

You're right--it's not just a Kyrie transplant that's helping the flow. We removed 3 flow-killing ball-hogs that play no defense.
Hayward and Brown are also really good in transition: better defense (not provided by Rozier/Kyrie/Morris) gives them more of those transition opportunities, which equals better offense.
 

benhogan

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This is why I like this site. All good points above Eddie, Reg, Triple, lovegtm, Jimbo, jed, DJnVa

While the national NBA media waxed poetic all pre-season that the Celtics would miss 2018-19 team MVP MaMo:rolleyes: and Rozier, the Port Cellar knew better (putting aside Mr. Chemistry for a moment).

The 2 things Brad preached at every post-game presser:
1. ball movement
2. defense

MaMo/Terry were by far the two biggest culprits. Addition by subtraction. And if you need further confirmation just look who paid those two.
 

TripleOT

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Also, no impending free agencies on this squad, except for Wanamaker, who is playing quite well and as is a perpetual FA guy.
 

TripleOT

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Doesn't Hayward have an opt out this off-season?
He does, but I don't think he's going to be playing under any pressure that the typical FA season brings, since his fallback position is scooping up $34 million next year, guaranteed.
 

JCizzle

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He does, but I don't think he's going to be playing under any pressure that the typical FA season brings, since his fallback position is scooping up $34 million next year, guaranteed.
Man, talk about being in a tough position... ;)
 

reggiecleveland

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He does, but I don't think he's going to be playing under any pressure that the typical FA season brings, since his fallback position is scooping up $34 million next year, guaranteed.
Amazing how things change. Not long ago his contract seemed like a anchor, now he realistically could opt out.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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That's really interesting. More size and more passing with Hayward = better offense.
GH's size really helps constrict the court on the defensive end. Having his length and activity when BOS is in scramble mode is a huge difference on why the defense was so much better in the first part of the season.
 

BillMuellerFanClub

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Amazing how things change. Not long ago his contract seemed like a anchor, now he realistically could opt out.
I think it’s a virtual certainty that Hayward opts out, as is his signing another deal with Boston. Provided he comes back and continues to play as he has this season, he would be a highly sought after player in a very weak FA class. Someone would pay him max money for the next 3-4 seasons, and with the cap/tax situation in Boston, Ainge has no option but to sign, or sign and trade Hayward.

I think he stays, even at market rate, because we’ll have seen what he means to the team on the court - effectively taking over for Al as the do-everything glue guy. Feeling like he hasn’t proved his worth through his first contract and being with Brad may add a little to the equation.
 

RSN Diaspora

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I think it’s a virtual certainty that Hayward opts out, as is his signing another deal with Boston. Provided he comes back and continues to play as he has this season, he would be a highly sought after player in a very weak FA class. Someone would pay him max money for the next 3-4 seasons, and with the cap/tax situation in Boston, Ainge has no option but to sign, or sign and trade Hayward.

I think he stays, even at market rate, because we’ll have seen what he means to the team on the court - effectively taking over for Al as the do-everything glue guy. Feeling like he hasn’t proved his worth through his first contract and being with Brad may add a little to the equation.
I really doubt that's a legitimate concern of his. Professional athletes have a limited window in which to earn a lot of money before entering a great unknown where there are a lot of retired athletes and only so many jobs relative to their skill sets. If he opts out, it'll be because the market will net him more money, and he's exponentially likelier to be guided by his bank account than a desire to make Wyc and Ainge feel like they've been made whole.
 

reggiecleveland

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So you're saying you're glad Ainge didn't trade him for peanuts, the way some people here wanted?
I expect it is more that a player option always annoys the fans. Either the player is worth it, and is a threat to leave, or not worth it and cashes in. I am really hoping he can get back to where he was before the hand injury since that was a promising team.
 

radsoxfan

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Zero chance his bone is fully healed like Hayward seems to think... but partially healed combined with the plate hopefully will be enough.

Would be great to get him back ahead of schedule.
 

k-factory

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Maybe an extra 9 days isn't that big a deal for healing but i would just be cautious - next three are Cleveland (easy win), @indy (who have been barely scratching out victories against poor teams) and home against Philly. Then their next game isn't till the 18th at Dallas.

This team is likely winning 2 of those 3 anyway, why rush? I'm sure Gordon is itching to get back and of course everyone would love to see him back but eyes on the prize and all that...
 

benhogan

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Maybe an extra 9 days isn't that big a deal for healing but i would just be cautious - next three are Cleveland (easy win), @indy (who have been barely scratching out victories against poor teams) and home against Philly. Then their next game isn't till the 18th at Dallas.

This team is likely winning 2 of those 3 anyway, why rush? I'm sure Gordon is itching to get back and of course everyone would love to see him back but eyes on the prize and all that...
probably doesn't play over 25mpg for a few weeks
 

Ale Xander

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I'd rest him at least until Philly. We don't need him vs. Cleveland.

Eyes on the prize.
 

joe dokes

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Maybe an extra 9 days isn't that big a deal for healing but i would just be cautious - next three are Cleveland (easy win), @indy (who have been barely scratching out victories against poor teams) and home against Philly. Then their next game isn't till the 18th at Dallas.

This team is likely winning 2 of those 3 anyway, why rush? I'm sure Gordon is itching to get back and of course everyone would love to see him back but eyes on the prize and all that...
What leads to a conclusion that they're "rushing"?
 

NomarsFool

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Any radiologists on the board that can fill us in on what tests they can do to look at the healing of the bone?
 

radsoxfan

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X-ray or CT, likely CT in a professional athlete with a question of the timing for return to play.

I'd be very surprised if the bone is truly "fully healed" after 4 weeks, maybe something was lost in translation there, not sure.

More likely, the CT shows enough bridging of bone that (combined with the plate) it should be strong enough to withstand another hit. Perhaps they feel it's as good as if it was fully healed. I can almost guarantee if they repeat his CT in another month it will be more healed than it is now (assuming no new injury).
 
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