Gordon Hayward 2018-2019: I find your lack of faith disturbing.

azsoxpatsfan

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MM was always unlikely to shoot 45% from 3 for even a majority of the season. As is nearly every NBA player.
I agree it was a bit of an exaggeration but I think shooting like he was is the only realistic way he could stay more productive than a 100% or close to 100% Hayward.
 

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I'm definitely a Hayward fan and am encouraged by his last few games on the offensive end. He always seems to be in good position defensively. If his athleticism is coming back, well, a return to 90% form GH, might be the best deadline pick up that was made or not made as it were.

Also, I'm all for lauding a player's commitment to the team but doesn't Gordo own a home in Boston and his wife and kids live there?
 

NomarsFool

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I was amazed how much Gordon was driving to the basket last night. His first three touches were all drives to the basket (for made hoops), and I think his fourth was also a drive that resulted in a trip to the line. We've been seeing that increasing, but last night was like he just shifted gears and decided he was going to drive every time he touched the ball.
 

benhogan

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I'm definitely a Hayward fan and am encouraged by his last few games on the offensive end. He always seems to be in good position defensively. If his athleticism is coming back, well, a return to 90% form GH, might be the best deadline pick up that was made or not made as it were.

Also, I'm all for lauding a player's commitment to the team but doesn't Gordo own a home in Boston and his wife and kids live there?
What's the temperature in Boston these days?

I hear the beaches in St. Bart's are pretty nice this time of year.
 
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mcpickl

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Since January 1 Morris is averaging 13 points on 43.5% (35.4% 3pt) with 6 rebounds and 1.35 assists in 28 minutes per game. Hayward is averaging 12.5 points on 50% (38% 3pt) with 4.1 rebounds and 3.5 assists in 25.2 minutes per game. Morris was +6.4 per 200 possessions in January and +0.7 per 200 in February. Gordon was -2.2 per 200 in January and +17.4 per 200 in February. I agree that Smart should stay start because he's so important in so many hard to quantify ways, but I think they have to consider moving Hayward into the starting five over Morris if he continues improving and Morris doesn't regain his 45% 3pt that he had for the first three months of the season.
I think his would put way too much pressure on Horford if Tatum is starting at the 4 over Morris. It's going to be a parade through the paint from whoever Kyrie is guarding and they'll get killed by opponents crashing the offensive boards. Don't think they can afford to start games even smaller than they are now.

I think having at least one of Hayward and Kyrie on the court at all times is a big positive as well since they're the best they have at creating for others and themselves. Tough to make that happen if they're both starting.
 

mcpickl

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I'm definitely a Hayward fan and am encouraged by his last few games on the offensive end. He always seems to be in good position defensively. If his athleticism is coming back, well, a return to 90% form GH, might be the best deadline pick up that was made or not made as it were.

Also, I'm all for lauding a player's commitment to the team but doesn't Gordo own a home in Boston and his wife and kids live there?
Yes. He also owns a home in the San Diego area, where his wife and kids could accompany him and avoid northeast winter while he's off for a week if he wanted. Not unusual for players to leave town during All star break. I'd guess more Celtics will leave town this weekend than will stay in town.
 
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Yes. He also owns a home in the San Diego area, where his wife and kids could accompany him and avoid northeast winter while he's off for a week if he wanted. Not unusual for players to leave town during All star break. I'd guess more Celtics will leave town this weekend than will stay in town.
I believe he said he was staying because they just had a baby ("Daddy's always happy") and couldn't travel.
 

benhogan

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Yeah, these Celtics are at their best when their identity is being long, physical, playing their defense, and exploiting size matchups on offense.

Kyrie fits into that fine because he's a great player, but Kyrie+Rozier takes away a lot of that identity.

The key is that Brad has to be comfortable with Gordon or Smart being the guy to bring the ball up the floor. We saw last night that Brad is also aware of this, and they're going to try it out.
from you're mouth into Brad's ear

I love the thought of a rotation with Marcus Smart* as our smallest guy on the floor physically posting up the opposing PG (hi TJ and JJ). BUT wouldn't expect Brad to do that much.

58 of our top 60 5-man lineups, by minutes played, contain either Irving or Rozier (even a Wanamaker led group surfaced in those top 60).

https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612738


*we'd need Terry and Kyrie to both be injured/out for that rotation to be a reality
 
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Deathofthebambino

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Since January 1 Morris is averaging 13 points on 43.5% (35.4% 3pt) with 6 rebounds and 1.35 assists in 28 minutes per game. Hayward is averaging 12.5 points on 50% (38% 3pt) with 4.1 rebounds and 3.5 assists in 25.2 minutes per game. Morris was +6.4 per 200 possessions in January and +0.7 per 200 in February. Gordon was -2.2 per 200 in January and +17.4 per 200 in February. I agree that Smart should stay start because he's so important in so many hard to quantify ways, but I think they have to consider moving Hayward into the starting five over Morris if he continues improving and Morris doesn't regain his 45% 3pt that he had for the first three months of the season.
I disagree on putting Gordon in the starting lineup for a few reasons. First, his outside shot isn't there yet. He's shooting 38% since January 1st from deep, but that's buoyed by a 6/7 night against Philly. When you remove that one game, he's only shooting 32.8% in the other 19 games, which is still worse than Morris. He does seem to be shooting the mid-range better though. The problem is with Kyrie on the floor, it will take the ball out of Gordon's hands as a playmaker and relegate him to a spot up shooter, and Morris can do that just fine, if not better, and provide more length on the defensive end. You're losing the best parts of Gordon by putting him on the floor with Kyrie, and accentuating the worst parts of his game (putting him out there as the 3 if you make Tatum the 4 and vice versa, and they can't match up defensively).

IMO, it's clear now that Gordon should basically be the point guard for the 2nd unit going forward, and Terry's minutes need to be cut drastically, or he should be moved over to the #2 and basically act as a spot up shooter. Terry has actually been a respectable 36.7% from 3 this season, but he's been really good the last month, shooting 42.2% over his last 13 games from deep, so he does bring some value to the table, it's just not as the initiator of the offense.

I think you leave the starting 5 alone, and keep Jaylen and Gordon on the 2nd unit, but increase their minutes based on who is playing well on a nightly basis and what the matchups are going forward. Brad also needs to stop putting Kyrie and Rozier on the floor togethe, ever, IMO. Besides the obvious size issues, Rozier is just not good running the offense, and taking the ball out of Kyrie's hands seems like a foolish decision all the way around. I was waiting all season to see what the C's would look like without Rozier, and it took one game with Gordon taking over his role as leader of the 2nd unit to make it clear that Terry has been killing this team, IMO.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Agreed. We can now see that Gordon is on a positive trajectory. Why change something that is working? If he keeps getting better, simply give him more minutes.
 

Jimbodandy

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Agreed. We can now see that Gordon is on a positive trajectory. Why change something that is working? If he keeps getting better, simply give him more minutes.
Yep. Morris is playing worse, just due to regression. Hayward is playing better. But none of that means that they should mess with what's kinda working. Now if we see more of the Lakers/Clippers games, maybe that's time to mix things up. But they bounced back nicely since. Stay the course for now.
 

amarshal2

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I think it's important for Hayward and Kyrie to be able to figure out how to play together in case that's the best lineup in the post season. Id like to see it a bit more.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I think it's important for Hayward and Kyrie to be able to figure out how to play together in case that's the best lineup in the post season. Id like to see it a bit more.
As Hayward continues to improve (assuming he does), I'd like to see them keep 2 of Kyrie, Hayward, Horford on the floor at all times. Although that would mean you rarely see the 3 togehter outside crunchtime.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I disagree on putting Gordon in the starting lineup for a few reasons. First, his outside shot isn't there yet. He's shooting 38% since January 1st from deep, but that's buoyed by a 6/7 night against Philly. When you remove that one game, he's only shooting 32.8% in the other 19 games, which is still worse than Morris.
Hayward had 3 full seasons in Utah where he shot 3’s below 35%. One of those other 4 seasons he shot it at 36.4%. Two of the remaining 3 years he shot it above that were in more limited roles early in his career. Hayward is a decent shooter but sometimes he’s talked about as if the expectations aren’t realistic.
 

lovegtm

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Hayward had 3 full seasons in Utah where he shot 3’s below 35%. One of those other 4 seasons he shot it at 36.4%. Two of the remaining 3 years he shot it above that were in more limited roles early in his career. Hayward is a decent shooter but sometimes he’s talked about as if the expectations aren’t realistic.
Looking at 3-point percentage outside the context of a particular offensive ecosystem is...odd. James Harden is also a career 36.5% shooter, identical to Hayward, but he'd shoot way above that if he were getting the looks Hayward gets in this Boston offense. In Utah, Hayward was the primary creator on a pretty grind-y offensive team--were not talking about tons of catch and shoot looks here.

He's obviously not Steph Curry, but his shooting this year was WAYYYY below what you'd expect, given the quality of looks he was getting. It's reasonable for people to expect him to be significantly better.
 

Jimbodandy

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Looking at 3-point percentage outside the context of a particular offensive ecosystem is...odd. James Harden is also a career 36.5% shooter, identical to Hayward, but he'd shoot way above that if he were getting the looks Hayward gets in this Boston offense. In Utah, Hayward was the primary creator on a pretty grind-y offensive team--were not talking about tons of catch and shoot looks here.

He's obviously not Steph Curry, but his shooting this year was WAYYYY below what you'd expect, given the quality of looks he was getting. It's reasonable for people to expect him to be significantly better.
Well said.

I think that there's a lot to be said about flow, which clearly Gordon hasn't been able to maintain for any length of time this year. No rhythm, normal offensive vibe, etc. Frankly, it wasn't until they switched up the rotations that he had any good games at all.

His FG% came back in January (.465), and both his FG and 3PT% are off the charts in seven February games so far. I'm more interested in the trending with him, given the physical and confidence/flow challenges he started the season with.
 

lovegtm

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Well said.

I think that there's a lot to be said about flow, which clearly Gordon hasn't been able to maintain for any length of time this year. No rhythm, normal offensive vibe, etc. Frankly, it wasn't until they switched up the rotations that he had any good games at all.

His FG% came back in January (.465), and both his FG and 3PT% are off the charts in seven February games so far. I'm more interested in the trending with him, given the physical and confidence/flow challenges he started the season with.
I'd also add that, and this is totally eyeballing, it looked like his legs weren't under him for a long time. He wasn't just missing shots, it was the way he was missing them: really bricky and off. His misses of late have looked more like normal misses, and he seems a lot more comfortable and in-balance wrt his lower body.

In a way it's similar to last year's Marcus Smart: he still wasn't getting good results, but he clearly had made a ton of improvements in terms of release point, dip, shooting on the way up, etc, and that turned out to carry over well into this year as he gained confidence.
 

Jimbodandy

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I'd also add that, and this is totally eyeballing, it looked like his legs weren't under him for a long time. He wasn't just missing shots, it was the way he was missing them: really bricky and off. His misses of late have looked more like normal misses, and he seems a lot more comfortable and in-balance wrt his lower body.

In a way it's similar to last year's Marcus Smart: he still wasn't getting good results, but he clearly had made a ton of improvements in terms of release point, dip, shooting on the way up, etc, and that turned out to carry over well into this year as he gained confidence.
I agree with that completely. For a long time, he looked like he had no explosion at all in his legs either. He still doesn't look AS good as before the incident, but he seems a hell of a lot closer. This shit is kinda related. Legs are important.
 

RedOctober3829

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I agree with that completely. For a long time, he looked like he had no explosion at all in his legs either. He still doesn't look AS good as before the incident, but he seems a hell of a lot closer. This shit is kinda related. Legs are important.
It's almost as if he didn't play basketball for a whole year and needed a long time to regain his game conditioning and overall form. It's almost as if everyone needed to be patient with him. Not directing this at you, by the way.
 

E5 Yaz

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It's almost as if he didn't play basketball for a whole year and needed a long time to regain his game conditioning and overall form. It's almost as if everyone needed to be patient with him. Not directing this at you, by the way.
To add to your point, it's almost as if no one read or heard Paul George talking about the comeback process from this type of injury
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Its great that Hayward has shown progress recently but anyone expecting him to resemble the player in Utah during his last season there is likely to be disappointed. I think a more realistic expectation is that he will continue to look good in fits and starts. In short, we aren't done with people complaining that he isn't a "max player" or that he should be benched or sent to the G League or traded during the offseason.

That said, if he can maintain some level of consistency around this baseline, its an upgrade for the team. Those who wrote Hayward or the Celtics off should probably consider the fact that grading either is better over time rather than on a game-to-game basis.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Looking at 3-point percentage outside the context of a particular offensive ecosystem is...odd. James Harden is also a career 36.5% shooter, identical to Hayward, but he'd shoot way above that if he were getting the looks Hayward gets in this Boston offense. In Utah, Hayward was the primary creator on a pretty grind-y offensive team--were not talking about tons of catch and shoot looks here.

He's obviously not Steph Curry, but his shooting this year was WAYYYY below what you'd expect, given the quality of looks he was getting. It's reasonable for people to expect him to be significantly better.
As for his shooting, one thing we know is that GH worked extensively on his shooting stroke while his leg healed. I wouldn't be surprised if his 3P% was to be on the high side of his career.

He is also getting a ton more wide-open shots in Brad's system. I posted his 2018-19 breakdown last week and going to repeat them (with updates and comparison to 2016-17 Utah). According to NBAstats.com:

In 2018-19, GH has shot 1 3Ps with a defender between 0-2 feet away (he made it); 4 3Ps with the defender 2-4 feet away (he's shooting 25% on these); 50 shots with the defender 4-6 feet away (24% on those); and 135 shots are wide open and he's only shooting 37% on these.

In 2016-17, GH shot 8 3Ps with a defender between 0-2 feet away (he made 50%); 44 3Ps with the defender 2-4 feet away (29.5%); 134 shots with the defender 4-6 feet away (46.3%); and 187 3Ps with the defender over 6' away (37.4%).

Perhaps more telling, of the 3P shots he has taken this year, 71.1% are wide-open and 97.3% of these are open or wide open. In Utah, those numbers were 50.1% wide-open and 86.1% open or wide-open.

And comparatively, with players who have taken > 125 wide open 3Ps, GH is 21st from bottom, trailing such shooters as Marc Gasol (37.2%), Al Horford (37.3%), Brook Lopez (38.0%), KAT (38.2%), Justice Winslow (41.2%), MaMO (42.5%), and Reggie Jackson (43.8%).

The top 10 are: Curry (52.2%), Hield (51.8%), Joe Harris (48.2%), Danny Green (47.9%), Josh Richardson (47.8%), Shamet (46.0%), Ariza (45.9%), Malik Beasley (45.3%), Paul George (45.1%), and Wesley Matthews (45.0%).

Just for fun, bottom 5 = Kelly Oubre is last at 28.1%; Osman (29.8%), Embiid (30.8%), Olynyk (31.6%), and Trae Young (31.8%). KO being there is surprising.
 

lexrageorge

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To add to your point, it's almost as if no one read or heard Paul George talking about the comeback process from this type of injury
Lots of folks also ignored the fact that Hayward lost a few months of rehab time this summer due to the procedure he had in May.
 

lars10

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Its great that Hayward has shown progress recently but anyone expecting him to resemble the player in Utah during his last season there is likely to be disappointed. I think a more realistic expectation is that he will continue to look good in fits and starts. In short, we aren't done with people complaining that he isn't a "max player" or that he should be benched or sent to the G League or traded during the offseason.

That said, if he can maintain some level of consistency around this baseline, its an upgrade for the team. Those who wrote Hayward or the Celtics off should probably consider the fact that grading either is better over time rather than on a game-to-game basis.
Is this based pretty much solely on your opinion? Or is the general idea that people with injuries such as his don't come all the way back? Are there any stats on people with his type of injury in the NBA re: how much mobility they get back/ how close they return to form?

I know you're probably basing your opinion on his performance thus far, but hasn't there been anecdotal evidence that he's been much better in practice and has mainly had trouble getting into the flow in games?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Is this based pretty much solely on your opinion? Or is the general idea that people with injuries such as his don't come all the way back? Are there any stats on people with his type of injury in the NBA re: how much mobility they get back/ how close they return to form?

I know you're probably basing your opinion on his performance thus far, but hasn't there been anecdotal evidence that he's been much better in practice and has mainly had trouble getting into the flow in games?
Its just my opinion and I defer to our medical experts though I believe radsox fan and some others in this thread essentially posted that he would take a while to come back. I was really speaking to those who even recently were growing so frustrated with the games where Hayward looked bad.

I also agree that there is likely something related to his usage and how he is meshing with the other guys with whom he shares the bulk of his minutes. But to be fair to everyone, there are nights were he has looked like a person who is struggling to find their form after a devastating injury.
 

lars10

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Its just my opinion and I defer to our medical experts though I believe radsox fan and some others in this thread essentially posted that he would take a while to come back. I was really speaking to those who even recently were growing so frustrated with the games where Hayward looked bad.

I also agree that there is likely something related to his usage and how he is meshing with the other guys with whom he shares the bulk of his minutes. But to be fair to everyone, there are nights were he has looked like a person who is struggling to find their form after a devastating injury.
Yeah. The one thing I've seen all season has seemed to be his willingness to pass and try to fit into the team... or at least so it's seemed to me. At least early on the season it looked like he wasn't looking for his shot as much and wasn't being aggressive. At least in the last few games/weeks it's looking at least like he's trying to be more aggressive and look for his shot a bit more. Hopefully the trend continues.

I know it's a big IF..but if the team had kept the two leads in the two LA games we'd be looking at this team quite a bit differently... and at least they put in renewed effort against Philly and Detroit.
 

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Not sure if it's been said here or not, but on the radio the other day someone said that he had spoken to other members of the team and asked if they were frustrated at the minutes that GH was getting when he wasn't producing. The answer, as reported, was that they weren't frustrated because in practice he was so much better than in games -- clearly the second best player on the team.

Hmmmm . . . . .
 

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Not sure if it's been said here or not, but on the radio the other day someone said that he had spoken to other members of the team and asked if they were frustrated at the minutes that GH was getting when he wasn't producing. The answer, as reported, was that they weren't frustrated because in practice he was so much better than in games -- clearly the second best player on the team.

Hmmmm . . . . .

It was Bill Simmons on his podcast
 

DrewDawg

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Which contradicts what we heard about 2 weeks ago that some players were frustrated at his minutes.

So, no one knows.
 

lexrageorge

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Which contradicts what we heard about 2 weeks ago that some players were frustrated at his minutes.

So, no one knows.
Those reports always had the stink of fake newz around them. Not surprising that they've been proven to be untrue.
 

JCizzle

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One minor note, in the podcast I think Simmons said 'people in the organization', not necessarily players. I'm sure he's more hooked in to the front office.
 

radsoxfan

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Its just my opinion and I defer to our medical experts though I believe radsox fan and some others in this thread essentially posted that he would take a while to come back. I was really speaking to those who even recently were growing so frustrated with the games where Hayward looked bad.
My main point with the Hayward injury is that it was "really bad", and a lot of potential complications could slow his recovery (or even prevent a complete one). It's much less straight forward than other Paul George-type gruesome injuries. Without all the specific details it's impossible to know what we can expect going forward or how long it will take to recover. But a slow return to form, while frustrating, is certainly not unexpected.

As far as his actual play, I find it interesting that this year's his stats really fit in well with his career in years 2-4 in Utah (advanced and per/36 min stats, not totals). I didn't watch him much then, and I'm sure he was doing it in a different slightly more athletic way. But overall, he has definitely been as productive and resembled that player from age 21-23. If you slid his stat line from this year into his age 24 season, no one would blink.

He clearly took another leap to All-Star and Max level player over the next 3 years, and he's not at that level yet. But he is already a reasonable version of himself as an NBA player and trending in the right direction. Hopefully by playoff time we start to see the All-Star version.
 

bosox79

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One minor note, in the podcast I think Simmons said 'people in the organization', not necessarily players. I'm sure he's more hooked in to the front office.
Yeah. it's very possible there's more than one opinion in the locker room about Gordon Hayward too. It's not an everyone is happy or everyone is angry situation.
 

lovegtm

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Yeah. it's very possible there's more than one opinion in the locker room about Gordon Hayward too. It's not an everyone is happy or everyone is angry situation.
Right, we also had the reports a couple months ago that guys were really trying to push him in practice and get him angry, likely because they were frustrated that he wasn't being aggressive enough in live games.

The story is probably something like: Hayward has looked good in practice for awhile, guys were frustrated that he wasn't able to show that in games, and some guys eventually wondered whether he should be getting so many minutes, given that practice wasn't translating to games. Some members of the media, always looking for a juicy/destabilizing story, ran with "everyone on the team is mad that Brad's pet is getting minutes."
 

bosox79

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Its just my opinion and I defer to our medical experts though I believe radsox fan and some others in this thread essentially posted that he would take a while to come back. I was really speaking to those who even recently were growing so frustrated with the games where Hayward looked bad.

I also agree that there is likely something related to his usage and how he is meshing with the other guys with whom he shares the bulk of his minutes. But to be fair to everyone, there are nights were he has looked like a person who is struggling to find their form after a devastating injury.
That was your season prognosis, not your long term prognosis right?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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That was your season prognosis, not your long term prognosis right?
Yes - I am just a doofus with a keyboard - not a medical professional at all - but my base case has been that we don't get the real Hayward until after this year. That doesn't mean he has to go to the G League. Unless he wants to take his daughters to a game in Maine, of course.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Looking at 3-point percentage outside the context of a particular offensive ecosystem is...odd. James Harden is also a career 36.5% shooter, identical to Hayward, but he'd shoot way above that if he were getting the looks Hayward gets in this Boston offense. In Utah, Hayward was the primary creator on a pretty grind-y offensive team--were not talking about tons of catch and shoot looks here.

He's obviously not Steph Curry, but his shooting this year was WAYYYY below what you'd expect, given the quality of looks he was getting. It's reasonable for people to expect him to be significantly better.
I’ll revert back to warning about expectations when he signed here if improved shooting was really what fans expected to see. Harden has free reign to shoot each time up the floor and is hoisting over 13 3’s per game this year. Hayward’s career average is 3.6 3’s per game which is identical to this season.

Hayward took his 3’s within the Jazz offense just as he is here. It wasn’t like he was forcing up shot after shot in Utah......that is a false characterization of his game as a Jazz nd the offense that Snyder ran where Hayward attempted just under 20% of Utah’s overall FGA. While the offense ran through Hayward it didn’t remotely resemble the way Houston’s offense runs through Harden.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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I’ll revert back to warning about expectations when he signed here if improved shooting was really what fans expected to see. Harden has free reign to shoot each time up the floor and is hoisting over 13 3’s per game this year. Hayward’s career average is 3.6 3’s per game which is identical to this season.

Hayward took his 3’s within the Jazz offense just as he is here. It wasn’t like he was forcing up shot after shot in Utah......that is a false characterization of his game as a Jazz nd the offense that Snyder ran where Hayward attempted just under 20% of Utah’s overall FGA. While the offense ran through Hayward it didn’t remotely resemble the way Houston’s offense runs through Harden.
The numbers agree with your characterization of GH's shots in UT, but they also show he's getting demonstrably better shots, which should improve his shooting percentage (not even counting any improved shooting mechanics that he worked on while he was injured).

If you take his 2016-17 UT percentages and apply them to his current 3P shot distribution, GH would be shooting:

0'-2' = 1 shot * (.500) = .5
2'-4' = 4 shots * (.295) = 1.18
4'-6' = 50 shots * (.463) = 23.15
6'+ = 135 shots * (.374) = 50.625.

Thus, he would have made between 75 and 76 3Ps, which is about 40.0%.

Maybe teams have been sagging off GH to see if he can make them and that will change, but if 70% of his 3Ps are wide open (no one with 6'+ of him), I wouldn't be surprised if GH's 3P% was over .400. I mean we've seen him make dozens of these in a row during practice.
 

mcpickl

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Which contradicts what we heard about 2 weeks ago that some players were frustrated at his minutes.

So, no one knows.
This has never made any sense to me.

Hayward is a recent all star on a max deal, he got yanked from the starting lineup before Thanksgiving and is tied for sixth in minutes played per game on the team with Jaylen Brown. And we haven't heard one peep from him publicly complaining about it.

If some players are complaining his 26 minutes a game are too much, Hayward isn't the problem. The complainers are.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,701
around the way
This has never made any sense to me.

Hayward is a recent all star on a max deal, he got yanked from the starting lineup before Thanksgiving and is tied for sixth in minutes played per game on the team with Jaylen Brown. And we haven't heard one peep from him publicly complaining about it.

If some players are complaining his 26 minutes a game are too much, Hayward isn't the problem. The complainers are.
We're way through the looking glass on these things now. I get that reporters need unnamed sources, but we just can't take this shit seriously anymore. There's no real evidence of anyone taking issue with Hayward's minutes.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
17,611
The numbers agree with your characterization of GH's shots in UT, but they also show he's getting demonstrably better shots, which should improve his shooting percentage (not even counting any improved shooting mechanics that he worked on while he was injured).

If you take his 2016-17 UT percentages and apply them to his current 3P shot distribution, GH would be shooting:

0'-2' = 1 shot * (.500) = .5
2'-4' = 4 shots * (.295) = 1.18
4'-6' = 50 shots * (.463) = 23.15
6'+ = 135 shots * (.374) = 50.625.

Thus, he would have made between 75 and 76 3Ps, which is about 40.0%.

Maybe teams have been sagging off GH to see if he can make them and that will change, but if 70% of his 3Ps are wide open (no one with 6'+ of him), I wouldn't be surprised if GH's 3P% was over .400. I mean we've seen him make dozens of these in a row during practice.
Gordon’s last year in Utah was his best 3-pt shooting year since the 2012-13 season. Prior to his 39.8% in a contract year he shot 34.9, 36.4, and 30.4.....it is very dangerous to base projections off the top end outlier when it occurred in a contract year. It’s the same way teams shouldn’t project MaMo’s future shooting based off this season.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
17,611
I find it hard to believe that three point percentage and contract year have any correlation whatsoever
Do you believe in a players improved contract year performance? If so, why wouldn’t you believe in a players improved shooting in a contract year? There are even (banned) supplements that improve ones hand/eye coordination.

We’re seeing it this year with Tobias, D’Angelo Russell, Bigdanovich in Indy, Derrick Rose, MaMo, and Rudy Gay with a quick look just this year alone.
 
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