Gordon Hayward 2020: I'm standing here in pieces and you're having delusions of grandeur!

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NomarsFool

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Baynes is a bit hard to compare, because Baynes isn't nearly the finesse type of player that Gordon is. It is his non-dominant hand, but he still needs to be able to drive with his left and lay it up with his left hand.'

Of course, the injuries themselves are likely completely different as well.
 

Van Everyman

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Yeah, but he came back playing like Aaron Baynes!
@benhogan is ok with that.

I was furious watching that live. But agree, we’ve barely seen Kanter so far, Jaylen has been terrific, Kemba hasn’t yet had to carry the team for 48 minutes but has also been playing very well. This probably also means more minutes for Smart and that’s never a bad thing.
 

InstaFace

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Losing a couple marginal regular-season wins doesn't matter much. Non-shooting hand. Lots more opportunity for Tatum and Brown, plus they can give Langford and Javonte some run.

It really sucks for Gordon given what happened prior and how well he was playing, but I think this is a minor speedbump that might have some positive developmental side-effects.
If you were picking 20 consecutive regular season games for him to miss, you might not pick games 10-30, you'd probably rather 30-50, but that'd be pretty high on the list.

He was going to need games off at some point. We just lost the optionality of when.
 

bosockboy

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If you were picking 20 consecutive regular season games for him to miss, you might not pick games 10-30, you'd probably rather 30-50, but that'd be pretty high on the list.

He was going to need games off at some point. We just lost the optionality of when.
Yeah I perused the schedule and hate having one of the west coasts during it but should be able to handle GS, Sac, PHX reasonably well without him.

Luckily this happened now and not March. Should be able to weather it and come out of it even stronger.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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I’m just going to consider this load management, happening all at once rather than distributed over the season.
 

radsoxfan

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So if it is one of the 2nd-5th metacarpals, would you assume we hear a 3-4 week recovery? 4-6?


Also, if the fandom rivalry between Radsoxfan and DRS was this decade’s Twilight debate, would you be Jacob or Edward and why? I’ll hang up and listen.
I'd guess 4-6 weeks as a median projection, hence the Xmas range over/under.

And DRS is great, no rivalry on my end :). Didn't intend for my post to be snarky, just giving speculation that "hand" might be a little more specific than it sounds at first blush.


Edit: didn't see post just above mine, but that's relatively good news. Shouldn't be a season changer for Haward individually or the Celtics as a team.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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The other positive part is since it's non-shooting hand, he can continue shooting drills. I'm sure he'll be manically keeping his condition up. Should be good to go when he comes back.
 

Saints Rest

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The other positive part is since it's non-shooting hand, he can continue shooting drills. I'm sure he'll be manically keeping his condition up. Should be good to go when he comes back.
Is there any reason where he wouldn't be able to keep running, swimming, or stationary biking, to keep his conditioning up? Will he be in a cast? Pain level?
 

Marciano490

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Is there any reason where he wouldn't be able to keep running, swimming, or stationary biking, to keep his conditioning up? Will he be in a cast? Pain level?
Swelling. Plus, if he’s in a cast, there’s the smell factor.

But, there are so many ways to do cardio. After hand surgeries, I usually did a stationary bike or treadmill with a steep incline holding my hand at or above my heart. Kept my conditioning steady for the week or two before I could run again.
 

Saints Rest

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Swelling. Plus, if he’s in a cast, there’s the smell factor.

But, there are so many ways to do cardio. After hand surgeries, I usually did a stationary bike or treadmill with a steep incline holding my hand at or above my heart. Kept my conditioning steady for the week or two before I could run again.
Thanks for the inside knowledge. What's with the hand above heart level? Reduce blood flow to hand to limit swelling/pain?
 

bankshot1

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I had a 4th/5th metacarpal fracture (base of the pinky) about 25 years ago. They are sometimes called the boxer's break. I thought I could fuck-up a concrete wall.

I misjudged the wall.

With some therapy (hand, not head) I was back in the game in about 5-6 weeks.
 

Imbricus

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I was probably at the long end of the scale for healing. I had a nasty break of fifth metacarpal: oblique displaced fracture. My right pinky no longer has an associated knuckle. I broke the bone Aug. 11 of '18; I wasn't allowed back on my bicycle until Oct. 20 (about 2 months and a week). Doctor said maybe 4-6 weeks with surgery, but because it was oblique, he wasn't sure if there was enough bone to get the screws into. So I opted for natural healing.

The thing that messes you up: your hand tendons get surprisingly stiff after being immobilized. So you need a lot of hand therapy.
 

Red Right Ankle

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I was probably at the long end of the scale for healing. I had a nasty break of fifth metacarpal: oblique displaced fracture. My right pinky no longer has an associated knuckle. I broke the bone Aug. 11 of '18; I wasn't allowed back on my bicycle until Oct. 20 (about 2 months and a week). Doctor said maybe 4-6 weeks with surgery, but because it was oblique, he wasn't sure if there was enough bone to get the screws into. So I opted for natural healing.

The thing that messes you up: your hand tendons get surprisingly stiff after being immobilized. So you need a lot of hand therapy.
Kraft joke here
 

radsoxfan

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Seems like this is a complete guess since he's supposedly not seeing doc til tomorrow and deciding on surgery...did that change?
Don't know if this specific tweet is a complete guess or not, but in general they pretty much know.

The hand specialist I'm sure has already seen the X-Rays, talked to the team doc, and knows he's dealing with an in-season professional athlete looking to minimize his time off. He'll still talk to Hayward and do an exam, but wouldn't be surprised if the OR is already booked.
 

Marciano490

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Don't know if this specific tweet is a complete guess or not, but in general they pretty much know.

The hand specialist I'm sure has already seen the X-Rays, talked to the team doc, and knows he's dealing with an in-season professional athlete looking to minimize his time off. He'll still talk to Hayward and do an exam, but wouldn't be surprised if the OR is already booked.
Not to quibble with a fellow expert, but don’t you find some specialists prefer to redo X-rays? Sometimes things are missed because the x-ray tech did a poor job and the doctor couldn’t get a clear bone picture.
 

Smokey Joe

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Not to quibble with a fellow expert, but don’t you find some specialists prefer to redo X-rays? Sometimes things are missed because the x-ray tech did a poor job and the doctor couldn’t get a clear bone picture.
Everybody wants to do their own x-ray, with their own machine, with their own tech.
But that wouldn’t stop them from booking the OR time.
 

radsoxfan

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Not to quibble with a fellow expert, but don’t you find some specialists prefer to redo X-rays? Sometimes things are missed because the x-ray tech did a poor job and the doctor couldn’t get a clear bone picture.
Sure, sometimes they will. I'm just saying there is a high likelihood the plan is already in place with what they have. They still could get a few more X-rays for confirmation but as long as the 4th metacarpal fracture isn't involving the joint, they probably know all they need.

If most people break their hand, they go to the ER, get an X-Ray, and then get referred to ortho. They walk into the ortho office and the doc is just looking at everything for the first time, hearing from the patient what happened, their goals for treatment etc.

In this case, all of that has almost surely happened. The hand specialist probably got the X-rays emailed or texted, talked to the Celtics doc, and know the goal is to return ASAP. If the fracture is more complicated, there is a chance they will get a CT and/or MRI and there could be some more decision making to do. More likely than not, the office visit is just a formality. Probably already told him to fast starting at midnight.
 

wilked

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Checking in to say I’ve broken my 4th metacarpal. Indoor soccer injury (falling to floor)

it didn’t feel good

AMA

4-6 weeks is my guess, mainly because everyone else saying 4-6 weeks
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Sure, sometimes they will. I'm just saying there is a high likelihood the plan is already in place with what they have. They still could get a few more X-rays for confirmation but as long as the 4th metacarpal fracture isn't involving the joint, they probably know all they need.

If most people break their hand, they go to the ER, get an X-Ray, and then get referred to ortho. They walk into the ortho office and the doc is just looking at everything for the first time, hearing from the patient what happened, their goals for treatment etc.

In this case, all of that has almost surely happened. The hand specialist probably got the X-rays emailed or texted, talked to the Celtics doc, and know the goal is to return ASAP. If the fracture is more complicated, there is a chance they will get a CT and/or MRI and there could be some more decision making to do. More likely than not, the office visit is just a formality. Probably already told him to fast starting at midnight.
Do you think they can trade Hayward's X-rays and an MRI plus a late second round pick for Giannis or Anthony Davis? Because I think they can.

In all seriousness, thank you to you, DRS and Renaissance Marciano for some rational analysis of what sort of recovery Hayward may be facing. It seems that waiting for even more information is prudent in assessing what this means for the Celtics and Hayward.
 

moondog80

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radsoxfan

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I was told today that Hayward indeed has what is commonly referred to as a boxers fracture or 4th metacarpal fracture. The person that told me this works in the office of the head of the Celtics medical team.
I'd be very surprised. Boxer's fracture is usually 5th metacarpal (occasionally also in combination with 4th as well) that occurs when punching something hard with closed fist. It's at a specific location and has a specific angulation, hard to imagine Hayward did that just awkwardly running into a screen.

Probably more like the 2nd Xray down on the left, not the top X-ray on the left.

http://pathologies.lexmedicus.com.au/pathologies/metacarpal-fractures
 

shawnrbu

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4 weeks from today is a home date with Cleveland. No need to come back that night.

December 11th at Indiana seems like a good return date with a big game against Philly the following night.
 

Marciano490

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I'd be very surprised. Boxer's fracture is usually 5th metacarpal (occasionally also in combination with 4th as well) that occurs when punching something hard with closed fist. It's at a specific location and has a specific angulation, hard to imagine Hayward did that just awkwardly running into a screen.

Probably more like the 2nd Xray down on the left, not the top X-ray on the left.

http://pathologies.lexmedicus.com.au/pathologies/metacarpal-fractures
I concur.

Boxer's fractures usually result from just using too much force. Hayward's break looked like it resulted from getting jammed at an awkward angle without bracing. Ironically, that's how I broke my wrist boxing the first time - the guy moved right and dropped his elbow down as I was throwing a hook and the punch connected before I'd had a chance to brace and cock my wrist. It wasn't a hard punch, just not timed to be a proper once.

Hehe. Cock.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I concur.

Boxer's fractures usually result from just using too much force. Hayward's break looked like it resulted from getting jammed at an awkward angle without bracing. Ironically, that's how I broke my wrist boxing the first time - the guy moved right and dropped his elbow down as I was throwing a hook and the punch connected before I'd had a chance to brace and cock my wrist. It wasn't a hard punch, just not timed to be a proper once.

Hehe. Cock.
Yeah, I had a boxers break as well. Also from throwing a punch. Hard to imagine that's what happened to Hayward.
 
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