Googefest: The 2015 Patriots O-Line Thread

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · Jul 30, 2015

Reiss said they lined up with that same group but Vollmer at RT. In any case, they may be working him in gradually given his recovery from shoulder surgery.

I love the fact that Mason and Jackson are getting a shot to prove themselves and so far seem to be in the mix for the starting jobs. We know what we have with guys like Kline and Devey (ie, not much). I'm all for giving Mason and Jackson every chance possible to grab the guard positions.

Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt · Jul 30, 2015

Volmer is the best lineman on the team. The idea that he'd be cut is sort of silly. I mean, I guess there's a chance they'd see what value there might be in Mankins-ing him, but the only thing that makes me think that is the weird starter-money deal they gave to the inferior Cannon. Cutting him would be shocking, IMO.

JohnnyTheBone · Jul 30, 2015

I'm excited about Shaq, he looks like a real road grader. I don't think Seabass will be cut. Really, I just wanted to offer kudos for the brilliant thread title.

soxfan121 · Jul 30, 2015

I am surprised that Mason was at LG and Jackson at RG; given the scouting reports, Mason needed more coaching in pass protection. I'll guess that Wendell would slot in at LG, which means Jackson has the inside track to the RG spot, while Mason gets needed reps. Remember, Stork and Jackson have played next to each other in college and I would expect that makes Jackson's transition a bit easier than a typical rookie.

And no, I don't think we're going to see Cannon at G at all this season, as it was such an abject disaster last season. But having a capable backup tackle when both starters have shaky health (concussions for Solder, everything for Vollmer) is a good thing.

Ed Hillel · Aug 17, 2015

That ringing in your ears is actually the phone, Mr. Connolly.

If Jackson's done, this is a major blow. Fuck fuck fuck.

Silverdude2167 · Aug 17, 2015

https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/633366591661580288

Rookie #Patriots G Tre' Jackson carted off midway through practice. Could have been heat-related, as he had trouble standing on own.

https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/633366806883880961

Rookie G Tre' Jackson also had his right hip area looked at by athletic trainers while down. Seemed to be in significant discomfort.

Super Nomario · Aug 17, 2015

Mark Daniels ‏@MarkDanielsPJ 7m7 minutes ago
I'm hearing Tre' Jackson's situation today was heat related. Source said, "body cramps" and sounds like he'll be fine. Good news.

ShaneTrot · Aug 17, 2015

Super Nomario said:
Mark Daniels ‏@MarkDanielsPJ 7m7 minutes ago
I'm hearing Tre' Jackson's situation today was heat related. Source said, "body cramps" and sounds like he'll be fine. Good news.

Not to be a jerk but this kid went to FSU shouldn't he be used to practicing in the heat? Or are Pats' practices killers?

RedOctober3829 · Aug 17, 2015

ShaneTrot said:
Not to be a jerk but this kid went to FSU shouldn't he be used to practicing in the heat? Or are Pats' practices killers?

Doesn't matter. Big men in full pads practicing in 100 plus degrees(not including humidity) on the field are always prone to this.

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) · Aug 17, 2015

ShaneTrot said:
Not to be a jerk but this kid went to FSU shouldn't he be used to practicing in the heat? Or are Pats' practices killers?

I think the list of things that could be confounders related to heat, cramps and exhaustion is very long. I'm no doctor guy but I'd suspect that seemingly innocuous things like the last meal he ate, how much sleep he did or did not get last week, mental strain, etc.... May all add up to a bad mix that could lead to something like that.

Reverend · Aug 18, 2015

ShaneTrot said:
Not to be a jerk but this kid went to FSU shouldn't he be used to practicing in the heat? Or are Pats' practices killers?

This sorta sounds like you may have answered your own questions, but sub out Pats for NFL.

And that doesn't even include stuff we don't know about pressure to get in shape, cut weight, etc., that might affect conditioning.

Got no problem with you as a poster and I get it, and it's cool, but we're moving into that season and the Patriots are under a lot of scrutiny (AGAIN) so I'm just asking people pre-emptively to dial certain kinds of things back, because it's gonna get mad, yeah?

Thanks to everyone.

But by all means, post the shit outta what you think you know about the o-line because this is a big fucking deal, yeah?

Pandemonium67 · Aug 18, 2015

That ringing in your ears is actually the phone, Mr. Connolly.

This here is my morning SoSH chuckle.

JerBear · Sep 8, 2015

Solder and Wendell named 2 of the 3 offensive captains (along with TB12).

http://twitter.com/Patriots/status/641340516953534464

Tony C · Sep 22, 2015

In the good problem to have category:

— Undrafted rookie center David Andrews surrendered just one pressure on the afternoon. He’s performed better in his first two NFL games than Patriots starter Bryan Stork did in his first two matchups as a rookie. It will be interesting to see how the Patriots shake up their offensive line when Stork and Ryan Wendell return.

Read more at: http://nesn.com/2015/09/patriots-bills-film-review-tom-brady-offense-can-be-even-more-explosive/

I really hadn't thought it, and probably it's too early to count on Andrews, but when Stork comes back, does Andrews get into the mix at guard? He's looked ridiculously unexpectedly good at C to these untrained eyes.

tims4wins · Sep 22, 2015

Don't think we have to think about this yet - we have no idea what Stork's concussion situation is. Just keep getting everyone reps for now.

mwonow · Sep 22, 2015

Tony C said:
In the good problem to have category:

I really hadn't thought it, and probably it's too early to count on Andrews, but when Stork comes back, does Andrews get into the mix at guard? He's looked ridiculously unexpectedly good at C to these untrained eyes.

Or maybe Stork moves over, at least at first, so he can be rotated in/out.

When Stork and Wendell are both back, there will be three guys who have all been starting centers with the Pats available for work in the interior OL

koufax32 · Sep 22, 2015

The Patriots seem to have an embarrassment of riches now on the interior of that line...FOR ABSOLUTE CHUMP CHANGE FOR THE NEXT 3-4 YEARS.

What a wonderful and unexpected surprise. It will be interesting to see how they use this budgetary advantage going forward.

Kenny F'ing Powers · Sep 23, 2015

I have no idea, but somehow, Rutgers will play a role.

Zososoxfan · Sep 23, 2015

Kenny F'ing Powers said:
I have no idea, but somehow, Rutgers will play a role.

Leonte Carroo??

RoDaddy · Sep 23, 2015

Here's a good scouting report on Andrews:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/david-andrews?id=2552242

Bascally, he's considered skilled and athletic but undersized in his lower body, so the small lower body is why he slipped to free agency. The skill and lack of size sounds like Dan Koppen, who turned out pretty damn good! In fact, if anything, Andrews looks better on paper as Koppen lacked athleticism which Andrews apparently has. In the hyperlink, someone also mentioned that perennial all-pro Jeff Saturday was also small and undrafted. Of course, there are similar comps for many more centers who never made it, but at least Koppen and Saturday give us some hope that what we've seen so far from Andrews is the real deal

tims4wins · Sep 25, 2015

Apparently Wendell has a "personal medical issue"

Hope it's nothing serious

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4785595/ryan-wendell-says-personal-medical-issue-keeping-him-out-of-action

He declined to get into specifics on what is keeping him off the field, adding that it's "out of my own hands."
"I don't know how it is anywhere else, but to have the staff that we have and especially the relationship we have with all the doctors from Mass. General Hospital and everything like that, I think we get top-of-the-line health care," he said Friday. "So I'm so blessed and grateful to be in a place where I can get the kind of treatment that's most effective. I have great confidence in our staff, the trainers, and medical staff, to help me to get back as soon as possible."

As soon as the doctors and trainers tell me I'm well enough to go, I'll be out there.

Rook05 · Sep 25, 2015

As an aside, a beat writer (Jeff Howe, I think) told an interesting anecdote on T&R about a practice before the Super Bowl last year. Apparently Stork was missing some of the protection checks from Brady, and Brady lit into him pretty good. Goog's stepped up and asked Brady if he remembered how good he felt prior to Stork taking over at center. That calmed Brady down.

Norm loves Vera · Sep 30, 2015

This article by Howe in the Herald today was interesting... on the innovation of different OL configurations this season:

"The Patriots have used nine different line combinations to start 30 possessions this season, excluding kneel-downs. They’ve also implemented a 10th combination with Marcus Cannon at right guard on the goal-line package that resulted in all three of LeGarrette Blount’s touchdowns Sunday against the Jaguars.
The series-by-series rotations have been fast and furious. Against the Steelers, the Patriots didn’t use the same line combination on back-to-back series until their sixth and seventh possessions. The Pats used the same combination for three consecutive series to open the Bills game, which is the only time that’s happened all season, before changing their line personnel on nine consecutive possessions. And the Patriots didn’t use the same group in back-to-back series a single time in nine series against the Jags."

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2015/09/patriots_line_combos_make_foes_dizzy

BB is truly changing the way the game can be played before our very eyes. This sounds like a story that ITP could expound on.

edit: cleaning up sloppy pasting.

Red Right Ankle · Sep 30, 2015

Yeah, the piece hints at the reasons for it - youth, playing to different guys' strengths - but doesn't expound. What are the different formulations, how is each guy getting used (positions, types of plays), what are the strengths/weaknesses that are being played to?

Pxer · Sep 30, 2015

TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle said:
Yeah, the piece hints at the reasons for it - youth, playing to different guys' strengths - but doesn't expound. What are the different formulations, how is each guy getting used (positions, types of plays), what are the strengths/weaknesses that are being played to?

Along those lines, I was anxious to see how Shaq Mason would be used this year as I knew he was a beast in the run game, but needed refinement in pass blocking. Anecdotally, it appears as though Mason is being used in plenty of passing situations. I was worried that if his usage would start to telegraph what the Pats might be doing on a certain series, but it looks like it could be hard to gauge.

Would love to see such insight as Ankle alludes to.

Old Fart Tree · Sep 30, 2015

And does it tip a run/pass to a shrewd defensive coach observing tendencies over time?

Valek123 · Sep 30, 2015

I think it also doesn't allow a defensive player to set-up a offensive lineman by utilizing a certain technique then switching it up later in the game in critical situations to get to the QB. It's amazing to watch in action, with players constantly rotating in series to series even plays to plays and in my opinion keeps the offensive players more mentally fresh and more focused on technique. BB is such a long-play guy that he could spend all season in a certain pattern of usage(run or pass prone) only to completely flip it in the post season, as a result of this I think that other coaches know that the only consistent when playing the Patriots is unpredictability. If they get stuck in the trap of player A means run with Brady at QB that D is going to get torched.

Just the flexibility to combat injuries makes this tremendous, I'd love to see ITP take this up also...

Reverend · Sep 30, 2015

Old Fart Tree said:
And does it tip a run/pass to a shrewd defensive coach observing tendencies over time?

Valek123 said:
I think it also doesn't allow a defensive player to set-up a offensive lineman by utilizing a certain technique then switching it up later in the game in critical situations to get to the QB. It's amazing to watch in action, with players constantly rotating in series to series even plays to plays and in my opinion keeps the offensive players more mentally fresh and more focused on technique. BB is such a long-play guy that he could spend all season in a certain pattern of usage(run or pass prone) only to completely flip it in the post season, as a result of this I think that other coaches know that the only consistent when playing the Patriots is unpredictability. If they get stuck in the trap of player A means run with Brady at QB that D is going to get torched.

Just the flexibility to combat injuries makes this tremendous, I'd love to see ITP take this up also...

They'll pick one formation, only run out of it, and then flip it if they meet the Ravens in the playoffs.

twothousandone · Sep 30, 2015

Old Fart Tree said:
And does it tip a run/pass to a shrewd defensive coach observing tendencies over time?

Or does it tip a run/pass to a defensive coach who isn't very shrewd, but shrewd enough to read ITP?

mwonow · Sep 30, 2015

There is no Rev said:
They'll pick one formation, only run out of it, and then flip it if they meet the Ravens in the playoffs.

Fortunately, BB is here for the long term. I don't think "Ravens" and "the playoffs" are likely to be conjoined at the end of the season, except by a phrase like "golfing during"

E5 Yaz · Sep 30, 2015

Belichick discusses the linemen

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4785807/bill-belichick-shaq-mason-ahead-of-other-rookie-linemen-in-run-game

Norm loves Vera · Sep 30, 2015

Is this maybe a spin on what the defense tries to do? mix up the OL with different looks and combinations.. I love that BB has teams "thinking" about one more element.

bakahump · Oct 1, 2015

There is no Rev said:
They'll pick one formation, only run out of it, and then flip it if they meet the Ravens in the playoffs.

Harbaugh will immediately convene the competition committee to outlaw such blatant instances of cheating.

tims4wins · Nov 7, 2015

Schefter just tweeted that Wendell is going to IR

dcmissle · Nov 7, 2015

Not even to game 8 and we have already had our bye. Son of a bitch.

Anyone have a scorecard on who is gone for the year and who we can hope will be back at some point this year?

dynomite · Nov 7, 2015

tims4wins said:
Schefter just tweeted that Wendell is going to IR

Welp. That kind of season for the offensive line.

If Shaq Mason (questionable) can't play this week Stork or Andrews has to play Guard, right?

tims4wins · Nov 7, 2015

I think so because Jackson isn't playing this week

PedroKsBambino · Nov 7, 2015

This OL situation is beginning to be concerning...

Super Nomario · Nov 7, 2015

dcmissle said:
Not even to game 8 and we have already had our bye. Son of a bitch.

Anyone have a scorecard on who is gone for the year and who we can hope will be back at some point this year?

For offensive line?

Gone for the year: Solder, Wendell
Not practicing yet: Jackson, Cannon
Back soon: Mason, Stork
Healthy: Vollmer, Kline, Andrews, Fleming
In case of emergency: move Michael Williams back to OT
Practice squad: Chris Barker and Blaine Clausell

E5 Yaz · Nov 7, 2015

Clearly, Brady will now get rid of the ball before it is snapped

Super Nomario · Nov 7, 2015

Trick play department: if you line up Stork and Andrews next to each other, as a trick play you can snap the ball from guard to create confusion with an unbalanced line. I'm picturing a 15-yard dig to LaFell, Pats hurry up to the line, but with Stork (at G) lined up on the ball, not Andrews. A little defensive confusion getting lined up in the right gaps, and Pats rip off a nice run.

EDIT: They could have done this with Connolly or Wendell and never did, so I'm probably in tin foil hat territory here.

Reverend · Nov 7, 2015

E5 Yaz said:
Clearly, Brady will now get rid of the ball before it is snapped

I hope you're warming up because I think you're next on the depth chart.

E5 Yaz · Nov 7, 2015

Reverend said:
I hope you're warming up because I think you're next on the depth chart.

You just want to see me bend over. I'm not falling for that again

Googefest: The 2015 Patriots O-Line Thread

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