Goodbye Gruden

Awesome Fossum

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The cheerleader stuff isn't new news, really, beyond the fact that Gruden was on one of the email forwards. We already knew team employees were editing and sharing photos of cheerleaders exposed during photo sessions. (Including one in which the cheerleaders were flown to Costa Rica, had their passports taken, and had to undress in front of VIPs.)

For whatever reason, that story just hasn't quite resonated with the public in the way it seems like it ought to.
 

mikeot

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For whatever reason, that story just hasn't quite resonated with the public in the way it seems like it ought to.
[/QUOTE]


Could it be because the NFL has sat on most of the investigation's report?
 

Awesome Fossum

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Well, yeah, the NFL has obviously tried to bury it, but organizations try to bury things all the time and fail. The Washington Post has done extensive reporting on this; it just hasn't seemed to grab hold with the public in the way other things have. And sometimes things just smolder until they explode. Maybe this is the spark that it needs.

Like for example, look at the Peyton Manning accusations and compare it to the Gruden emails. One catches fire and the other doesn't. Is there a rhyme or reason to it? I don't know.
 

Strike4

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For whatever reason, that story just hasn't quite resonated with the public in the way it seems like it ought to.
I disagree somewhat with this because people focus on the result of "Jon Gruden was fired for racist/homophobic/etc. emails". Every single time something like this happens to a public figure, people see what is written and people talk about why it is bad. Staley, who I am pretty sure does not know the things he said instinctively, speaks like he did. He elaborates on why, he focuses on the harm and the people impacted rather than Gruden, and he does it in a relatable way. Every time that happens people are listening and it starts to sink in. It's a tiny bit of education - but it builds up over time.
 

Van Everyman

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I know. I read it at the time. I just didn’t realize Gruden was emailing that material as it was like the third thing that came out in this story. Unreal.
 

SumnerH

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I remember seeing troubling HS hazing stories like this throughout my lifetime. My assumption has always been that there are some school systems which simply have grown traditions which get out of control. It's very similar to Greek fraternity/sorority hazing. At some schools it's going to be tame and at others with long traditions which have been left unchecked for many years, you're going to have some crazy shit happening.
That hazing story was from my high school. It's weird to read because that never would have happened there in that way in the late 80s/early 90s when I was there—not because people were any better, but football was a laughingstock where only the people who couldn't make a real sports team went. The soccer team was by far the biggest sport around, and the epicenter of hazing (by all accounts as bad as this, too), and even the cross country team was more prestigious. Being on the football team was lower in the social pecking order than being in the drama club, and there was some talk of cutting the sport entirely.

Apparently the recently dismissed coach had turned the program around to the point where they won a state title in 2016 (in division B). It's good to see that there wasn't much of an attempt to protect him when the story came out.
 

jcd0805

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I would encourage anyone who isn't familiar with Davis to watch the recent HBO Real Sports piece on him. Its eye opening to say the least and it goes right in the mush of the narrative that Davis is just some trust fund kid with a bad haircut. I mean, he is exactly that but he is also so much more - he comes across as thoughtful, funny and he even addresses his hairstyle directly. He likes it even if everyone else thinks its a joke.
I will have to look for that episode because yea, I've just always thought of him as a big dunderhead who lucked into an NFL franchise because of his dad's hard work. But no matter how much better he may come across I will never, ever understand anyone thinking his haircut is a good look.
 

mauf

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Not sure this is the right thread for this, but Washington just announced they're retiring Sean Taylor's number on Sunday. Absolutely despicable timing.
Taylor had off-field issues, but none of them were germane to the issues that triggered the NFL’s investigation of the team, or nor do they relate to the other matters (Gruden’s remarks) brought to light by that investigation. I would understand not honoring Taylor because of those off-field issues, but once you have gotten past that, I don’t see why these unrelated developments would cause you to change the timing of the festivities.
 

RIFan

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Taylor had off-field issues, but none of them were germane to the issues that triggered the NFL’s investigation of the team, or nor do they relate to the other matters (Gruden’s remarks) brought to light by that investigation. I would understand not honoring Taylor because of those off-field issues, but once you have gotten past that, I don’t see why these unrelated developments would cause you to change the timing of the festivities.
The Taylor number retirement wasn't planned. They are using the Taylor ceremony as a distraction from the reports. That is what has people upset.
 

mauf

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The Taylor number retirement wasn't planned. They are using the Taylor ceremony as a distraction from the reports. That is what has people upset.
Ah, gotcha.

Btw, I’m definitely in the camp that Taylor’s transgressions were the sort of things that should be buried with us. But reasonable opinion can differ, and I thought @Jungleland was expressing the opposing view. My bad.
 

EvilEmpire

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The Taylor number retirement wasn't planned. They are using the Taylor ceremony as a distraction from the reports. That is what has people upset.
I don't think this is true.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32399601/sean-taylor-become-3rd-player-washington-football-team-franchise-history-jersey-number-retired

Amid skepticism Thursday morning over the timing of the Taylor announcement, a team spokesperson said in a statement that the organization started planning the ceremony before the season started and wanted it to be part of the franchise's alumni weekend. Another former player, ESPN analyst Ryan Clark, said he was contacted in September about attending.
Clark Tweeted that he was contacted on September 22nd.
 

Jungleland

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No worries, but yeah it seemed that today was the first public acknowledgement of the retirement ceremony. Not knowing a lot about anything that would be cause for not honoring Taylor, just seems disrespectful to me to use his memory to hide from the current goings-on. If it has been planned for a month, I'm glad that takes away the nefarious aspect of the timing, but imo this past week should have WFT rescheduling anyways.
 
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worm0082

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Maybe the number retirement has been planned for a month+ because they knew this was coming and were waiting to announce it until the Gruden/wft stuff broke?

But there’s a bunch of other redskins players who’s numbers belong up there before Taylor. Darrell Green for example.
 

Awesome Fossum

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Maybe. I think it's more likely that they weren't planning to announce it ahead of time at all and changed their minds in an effort to distract. Or honestly, just in an effort to get people out to the stadium at all -- WFT is dead last in attendance by a really wide margin.

Why they wouldn't want to properly promote something like this, I don't know, but this feels more like incompetence than malice to me.

Statement from the team president, for whatever it's worth:

View: https://twitter.com/whoisjwright/status/1448705279709822982


We wanted to do something long overdue by retiring players' numbers. Months ago we planned for Bobby Mitchell and Sean Taylor to be the first two. Seeing the reaction, I'm very sorry that the short notice does not properly reflect the impact Sean had. President's Brief to come...
 

Plantiers Wart

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Darrell Green? That is criminal. Might he refuse the honor based on some conflict with management? If not, then he absolutely should have been before Taylor.

Among others not retired - Art Monk, Riggins.
 

mauf

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Darrell Green? That is criminal. Might he refuse the honor based on some conflict with management? If not, then he absolutely should have been before Taylor.

Among others not retired - Art Monk, Riggins.
Riggins and (especially) his wife have fought the NFL to secure more generous pension and health benefits for retired players. On the merits, Riggins is in line behind Green and Monk, but neither was a fan favorite like Riggins was. I’ll bet his wife’s advocacy is what’s keeping him from being honored.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2019/02/10/bad-news-for-the-nfl-john-riggins-wife-lisa-marie-riggins-is-a-lawyer/
 

PedroKsBambino

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I literally don’t think there’s such a thing as a thoughtful person who paid attention to Deflategate and came away believing the Pats or Brady was the bad guy—even pats haters I know acknowledge the NFL was filthy dirty on it by the end.

To be clear, there’s plenty of people who blame Pats around Spygate and other stuff but as I read and talked to people, Deflategate ended up as a situation where the truth was pretty clear in the end even if the league never acknowledged it
 

bigq

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That hazing story was from my high school. It's weird to read because that never would have happened there in that way in the late 80s/early 90s when I was there—not because people were any better, but football was a laughingstock where only the people who couldn't make a real sports team went. The soccer team was by far the biggest sport around, and the epicenter of hazing (by all accounts as bad as this, too), and even the cross country team was more prestigious. Being on the football team was lower in the social pecking order than being in the drama club, and there was some talk of cutting the sport entirely.

Apparently the recently dismissed coach had turned the program around to the point where they won a state title in 2016 (in division B). It's good to see that there wasn't much of an attempt to protect him when the story came out.
I went to the same high school at almost the same time and I agree with your comment that the football team was not a powerhouse during that period. I played on the soccer team and have to disagree that the hazing was anything close to having a freshman put a dildo in his mouth. I do not recall any specific hazing rituals (although I was treated like crap by the seniors during my freshman year which was primarily verbal abuse) and I do not think the coach would have put up with the bullshit (assuming he knew about it and had reasonable proof). My senior year a third of the team including one of the team captains was suspended for a quarter of the season for drinking. If something similar to the football hazing incident had happened I think the coach would have alerted the principal and come down very hard on the players. Entirely possible though that some awful things took place that I was unaware of.
 

nocode51

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I went to the same high school at almost the same time and I agree with your comment that the football team was not a powerhouse during that period. I played on the soccer team and have to disagree that the hazing was anything close to having a freshman put a dildo in his mouth. I do not recall any specific hazing rituals (although I was treated like crap by the seniors during my freshman year which was primarily verbal abuse) and I do not think the coach would have put up with the bullshit (assuming he knew about it and had reasonable proof). My senior year a third of the team including one of the team captains was suspended for a quarter of the season for drinking. If something similar to the football hazing incident had happened I think the coach would have alerted the principal and come down very hard on the players. Entirely possible though that some awful things took place that I was unaware of.
Was Gardner the coach that far back? I coached against him and I would be shocked if he let that kind of thing go on.
 

brace

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That’s interesting - I graduated from Morse in 1985, which for those not familiar was a big rival of Brunswick. We swapped team captains in school for a day leading up to the game. I was friends with a couple of Brunswick players and the football games I attended were always packed. Football appeared, from my perspective, to be the big sport at Brunswick.

I also grew up with the former Brunswick coach, Dan Cooper. I was a few years older, but he was a neighbor of my buddy’s. We weren’t close friends, but we played a lot of back yard games ip through Jr High. After 20 years in the army, I moved back to Maine and lived in Brunswick during the early stages of Dan’s tenure. I spoke with Dan a couple times as my son played football. I’m saddened and dumbfounded this took place.I’ve spoken with my son since, but he said nothing like this happened while he was part of Brunswick football.

I’m pleased the Superintendent took a hard stand. I work for a school district now and his decision has been praised universally where I work. I hope every Superintendent/school board in the nation would make the same decision, but I’m not confident that’s true - even in my current district.
 

bigq

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I’m pleased the Superintendent took a hard stand. I work for a school district now and his decision has been praised universally where I work. I hope every Superintendent/school board in the nation would make the same decision, but I’m not confident that’s true - even in my current district.
I agree with this although I think he was largely forced into the decision by the nature of the videos that got pretty widely distributed. Any other approach have increased the likelihood of the school being sued. I think that is still a very real possibility.
 

SumnerH

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Was Gardner the coach that far back? I coached against him and I would be shocked if he let that kind of thing go on.
He was when I was there, and was notorious for overlooking bad behavior by the soccer players—especially in his capacity as a math teacher, where you were pretty much guaranteed a good grade if you were on the soccer team unless it would've been completely egregious for him to let you skate..
 

nocode51

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He was when I was there, and was notorious for overlooking bad behavior by the soccer players—especially in his capacity as a math teacher, where you were pretty much guaranteed a good grade if you were on the soccer team unless it would've been completely egregious for him to let you skate..
Ouch. We played and mostly lost against them a bunch in the early 2000's, the team always seemed to echo his classy and professional behavior. When we actually pulled a tie off against them he was congratulatory and would always give me some tips on how he thought we should adjust things, especially against Ararat.