Goodbye Gruden and ongoing Snyder investigation discussion

djbayko

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I worded my post carefully and did not say that he was.

I did suggest that you might consider not worrying about whether Goodell "wins" in a situation where he is doing the right thing.
I can believe the outcome is for the greater good while also being upset that Goodell won. There's no problem there, for me.
 

cornwalls@6

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The fact that anyone is surprised by the offensive actions or comments from someone who has spent a better part of their life in NFL locker rooms strikes me as odd. He's been part of the "boys club" for years. This was very likely rampant around the NFL 10-15 years ago. Does it make it better? Hell no. Could this start a flood of the old guard getting booted out of the NFL due to behavior like this? Unfortunately, probably not. Not unless they've crossed our clown-nosed commissioner.
Or been stupid enough to leave a trail of digital footprints.
 

Marciano490

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I can believe the outcome is for the greater good while also being upset that Goodell won. There's no problem there.
How’s he win? Can’t feel great that him being shit talked is blasted all over the world. It’s not like he got to disembowel Gruden and eat his intestines with his m&m’s.
 

Cellar-Door

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So most of these emails are from 10+ years ago, but didn't they also mention "calling for dismissal of players protesting the playing of the national anthem"? I assume by this they mean players kneeling to protest police brutality, which would have to be way more recent correct?
The emails run from 2011 to 2018 so presumably the anthem emails were about the original group of kneeling players like Kaepernick.
 

djbayko

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How’s he win? Can’t feel great that him being shit talked is blasted all over the world. It’s not like he got to disembowel Gruden and eat his intestines with his m&m’s.
Yeah, shit talked, but by someone who the world is now against, and using words that society is not okay with. He took away his livelihood and his backup livelihood (for now) and reinforced the idea that nobody fucks with Roger.
 

nighthob

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Why does this matter? There’s always something worse. Gruden’s comment was horrific.
This is a terrible argument and I expect better from you. Literally no one is defending Gruden and literally everyone here is cheering now that he's been fired.
 

swiftaw

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My wife asked an interesting question, does Gruden just fade away or does he do the whole apology press conference?
 

lexrageorge

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Yeah I think this is exactly his public comment but I'd love to hear his candid personal opinion.
There’s not a single coach or GM in the league that is going to say anything. All comment will come from the various PR departments for the teams.
 

mauf

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NBC Sold out backing him last night during half time. Tirico talked about him as having been partners for a decade, no prejudice. Dungy said he's a good man. I think even Brees backed him.

They must not have been given the heads up before commiting.
I mentioned this upthread, but my take on NBC’s commentary was different than yours. Tirico didn’t like talking about his opinions at all (he obviously considers himself a journalist) but spoke favorably of his years working with Gruden. Dungy said everyone should move on but was tepid in his support for Gruden. Brees sat the discussion out. In retrospect, I’ll bet they all knew there was likely another shoe to drop.
 

Average Game James

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My wife asked an interesting question, does Gruden just fade away or does he do the whole apology press conference?
Given Gruden's earlier "apology" before the full extent of what was in the emails was known, a press conference would probably ring even more hollow than most of the public apologies we hear in response to these types of events. If he ever hopes to have an even remotely public facing role at some point in the future, you'd think his best option is probably to fade away for several months or even a couple years, then (hopefully after some actual personal growth) make some attempt to show contrition.
 

nighthob

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You ripped this away from all context.
Except that I didn't. You were literally mangling MC's argument for quick points. No one here cares about Gruden. We're all happy he's gone. Including MC.

On that note, I'm stoked he's gone and I hope that ESPN doesn't hire him again after a couple of years away from the game.
Is there any doubt that he ends up hosting OAN's first football show?
 

Average Game James

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Schefter tweeting out a statement from Gruden. Glad to hear he never meant to hurt anyone, just privately denigrate them. Good riddance.

View: https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1447742101693898753?s=20


Tweet: Jon Gruden statement: “I have resigned as Head Coach of the Las Vegas Raiders. I love the Raiders and do not want to be a distraction. Thank you to all the players, coaches, staff, and fans of Raider Nation. I’m sorry, I never meant to hurt anyone.”
 

Cellar-Door

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Even if Gruden wants to do the whole apology tour, he has to let it cool off, and take time laying low so he can spin the whole... "I reflected, I've grown, etc. etc."

Other option is to lean in and hit the right wing "oh no I was canceled for being a shitty person" circuit
 

Average Reds

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Schefter tweeting out a statement from Gruden. Glad to hear he never meant to hurt anyone, just privately denigrate them. Good riddance.

View: https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1447742101693898753?s=20


Tweet: Jon Gruden statement: “I have resigned as Head Coach of the Las Vegas Raiders. I love the Raiders and do not want to be a distraction. Thank you to all the players, coaches, staff, and fans of Raider Nation. I’m sorry, I never meant to hurt anyone.”
You don’t get to use language like that and claim that you never meant to hurt anyone.

Fuck off and go live in shame, you lying asshole.
 

mauf

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It’s a strange deal where he was an ESPN employee at the time and ESPN is breaking the news.

And Tirico doesn’t judge lest he be judged.
What are you saying about Tirico? Seems to me if anyone’s entitled to his opinion on this matter, it’s him. (Frankly, my take is he was uncomfortable discussing the matter during last night’s broadcast.)

Speaking of last night’s broadcast, I am not losing my mind — Brees was not part of the discussion.

View: https://twitter.com/bomani_jones/status/1447349994231640065?s=21
 

Freddy Linn

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What are you saying about Tirico? Seems to me if anyone’s entitled to his opinion on this matter, it’s him. (Frankly, my take is he was uncomfortable discussing the matter during last night’s broadcast.)

Speaking of last night’s broadcast, I am not losing my mind — Brees was not part of the discussion.

View: https://twitter.com/bomani_jones/status/1447349994231640065?s=21
Tirico has a very complicated history. He would be insulted by your response to me.

Edit: deleted clumsy multi-quote.
 

mauf

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Tirico has a very complicated history. He would be insulted by your response to me.

Edit: deleted clumsy multi-quote.
I’m assuming that at some point since that silly interview in the early 1990s, Tirico figured out that his mom lied to him about who his dad was. He hasn’t repeated those remarks about being Italian in recent years.
 

Freddy Linn

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I’m assuming that at some point since that silly interview in the early 1990s, Tirico figured out that his mom lied to him about who his dad was. He hasn’t repeated those remarks about being Italian in recent years.
What about the remarks where he says he’s not into the opinion thing?

You are ascribing an elevated level of concern due to his race, I guess. He’s on record begging you not to do that nor to ask him for his opinion.

He also has ugly skeletons in his closet, which I speculate inform his reluctance to opine on people’s history.
 

j-man

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gruden had to go my q is why did this take 10 years u wouild think in goodell would had made a call to davis in 2017 look dont hire this guy because of wyz heck why dint espn fire him after the 2014 draft they knew too

i bet every team has big time things they dont want getting out in the puilc
 

mauf

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What about the remarks where he says he’s not into the opinion thing?

You are ascribing an elevated level of concern due to his race, I guess. He’s on record begging you not to do that nor to ask him for his opinion.

He also has ugly skeletons in his closet, which I speculate inform his non-opinion on people’s hestory.
I’m not ascribing any “elevated level of concern” to him. Notwithstanding what Tirico said about his heritage 30 years ago, he is obviously a Black man. White men like you and me shouldn’t be quick to question his motives when he discusses issues of race. There are any number of reasons he might have preferred not to talk about the revelations about his former colleague.

But really, I brought it up because other posters seemed to think NBC was shilling for Gruden last night. I didn’t get that at all. Dungy offered tepid support. Tirico clearly would have preferred to discuss any subject in the world besides that one. And Brees wasn’t on set for the discussion. In retrospect, I think they all knew another shoe was going to drop.
 
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Freddy Linn

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I’m not ascribing any “elevated level of concern” to him. Notwithstanding what Tirico said about his heritage 30 years ago, he is obviously a Black man. White men like you and me shouldn’t be quick to question his motives when he discusses issues of race. There are any number of reasons he might have preferred not to talk about the revelations about his former colleague.

But really, I brought it up because other posters seemed to think NBC was shilling for Gruden last night. I didn’t get that at all. Dungy offered tepid support. Tirico clearly would have preferred to discuss any subject in the world besides that one. And Brees wasn’t on set for the discussion. In retrospect, I think they all knew another shoe was going to drop.
I’m not quick to question his motives. I’m listening to him.

Why do I have to check any box?” he said. “If we live in a world where we’re not supposed to judge, why should anyone care about identifying?”
 

jcd0805

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But really, I brought it up because other posters seemed to think NBC was shilling for Gruden last night. I didn’t get that at all.
Me either, they weren’t like “oh come on he’s a great guy and this is nonsense!” They said they never saw any behavior that made them think he was racist, I mean they had to address it they both knew him and all they did was say what their experience with him was.
 

loshjott

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Schefter seems to be implying on ESPN that the NFL leaked the second batch of emails to the NYT after Davis didn’t take action against Gruden over the weekend.
 

joe dokes

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My wife asked an interesting question, does Gruden just fade away or does he do the whole apology press conference?
"Press conference"/interview for next job. Perhaps with a media outlet that would be happy to have a culture war victim like him. (That 2nd sentence was sarcasm.)

I don't see him fading away. He seems to enjoy the spotlight.
 

Rosey Ruzicka

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My question now is why did the league sat on all these emails for so long, so many garbage individuals in this league.
 

BringBackMo

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PS I'm not totally out of the loop, but I don't really understand why "grandfathered" would be offensive (is it a gender issue thing? Should we say grandpersoned? I'm not being flip, I'm genuinely curious).
This is quite a capper to your string of posts today which, taken collectively, amount to “Sure, what GRUDEN said is obviously wrong! But some people can say hateful things and just not understand that they’re hateful, and I want to make sure we’re not grouping them in with Gruden!” It’s not entirely clear to me why it’s so important to you to make this point over and over in a thread that was started because a very popular coach and NFL personality wrote that a Black man had lips the size of tires. But what is clear to me is that if you actually had any genuine interest in understanding why the term “grandfathered” is offensive you could have Googled it and educated yourself in perhaps a quarter of the time you spent today making your argument that just because someone says hateful things it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re hateful.
 

BringBackMo

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NBC Sold out backing him last night during half time. Tirico talked about him as having been partners for a decade, no prejudice. Dungy said he's a good man. I think even Brees backed him.

They must not have been given the heads up before commiting.
Excellent point. This hadn’t occurred to me. What does Tirico say now?
 

bosockboy

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Given Gruden's earlier "apology" before the full extent of what was in the emails was known, a press conference would probably ring even more hollow than most of the public apologies we hear in response to these types of events. If he ever hopes to have an even remotely public facing role at some point in the future, you'd think his best option is probably to fade away for several months or even a couple years, then (hopefully after some actual personal growth) make some attempt to show contrition.
He’s now Matt Lauer. He’s a ghost.
 

Devizier

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Yes, obviously I’m struggling to make this point or what I am writing is being used as a jumping off point to rail against a point I’m not making, but for the hundredth time I’m not talking about accountability. I’m talking about how to make incidents like this less likely to happen.
The only thing that makes this unclear is that Gruden’s emails aren’t an edge issue. There’s no nuance here; he wrote some overtly racist shit about a colleague in a private (but not too private!) communique. Even if he wrote a bunch of shit that wasn’t racist but insulted a colleagues physical appearance, that would be some childish bullshit that shouldn’t be tolerated from a 50+ year old leader of a franchise.
 
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There’s no doubt a ton of this stuff going on in the league, every day. And Gruden rightly suffered consequences. The fact that this was bright to light through an unrelated investigation and then leaked in strange ways to the media, however, suggests the league office doesn’t have much interest in addressing it in any systematic or serious way. It’s going to have a chilling effect for a while, but if I had to guess most around the league won’t learn the right lesson.

As for Goodell, I’ll never understand the owners’ allegiance to the guy. The pessimistic view is that they keep him around because he’s amoral and part of the old boy’s club, but then his office selectively snipes prominent people. He’s really the worst of both worlds.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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There’s no doubt a ton of this stuff going on in the league, every day. And Gruden rightly suffered consequences. The fact that this was bright to light through an unrelated investigation and then leaked in strange ways to the media, however, suggests the league office doesn’t have much interest in addressing it in any systematic or serious way. It’s going to have a chilling effect for a while, but if I had to guess most around the league won’t learn the right lesson.

As for Goodell, I’ll never understand the owners’ allegiance to the guy. The pessimistic view is that they keep him around because he’s amoral and part of the old boy’s club, but then his office selectively snipes prominent people. He’s really the worst of both worlds.
Under his watch, the owners have made billions. I am not saying he deserves credit for that or that another commissioner wouldn't have done the same, but the owners see the bottom line and that is it.
 

Winger 03

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There’s no doubt a ton of this stuff going on in the league, every day. And Gruden rightly suffered consequences. The fact that this was bright to light through an unrelated investigation and then leaked in strange ways to the media, however, suggests the league office doesn’t have much interest in addressing it in any systematic or serious way. It’s going to have a chilling effect for a while, but if I had to guess most around the league won’t learn the right lesson.

As for Goodell, I’ll never understand the owners’ allegiance to the guy. The pessimistic view is that they keep him around because he’s amoral and part of the old boy’s club, but then his office selectively snipes prominent people. He’s really the worst of both worlds.
Look at the WFT and their "investigation" All that happened was that no report was issued and Snyder became more powerful by buying out his partners and taking on more debt that the league allows. My guess is there was a "change the name and we will not release what is in this report" dealings going on.